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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
I still really disagree that Infestors made ZvP Zerg favored, I mean, I'm just a lowly master league player but if I'm facing a Protoss who is better than me I'll still lose the game and look like a complete chump, Infestors don't change that for me, if they were really OP I'd imagine I would be able to stomp people even if they were outplaying me. Sure, I can see Fungal getting a bit of a nerf, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around any significant change happening to Infestors without fixing some of the critical problems with Hydras and Corruptors.
Having said that, the NP nerf completely baffles me, I don't think anybody was complaining about NP being overpowered at all, NP seemed completely balanced to me in all regards, depending on your play style if you revolved around Infestor use then it was still a very fragile and difficult technique to pull off with high reward if you could pull it off, yet far from unstoppable against a good Protoss or Terran, it all came down to micro and positioning. How does nerfing it to an unusable 7 range HELP the battles to be MORE about micro and positioning? It just blows my mind.
When I play as Zerg using Infestors and NP against Protoss I still have to be incredibly careful about where and when I engage and what my unit composition is or when the engagement comes I'll get completely steamrolled. When I play as Protoss I haven't had much difficulty battling against Infestors with NP either, I just use High Templar and try to Storm down the Infestors who are casting NP, it never seemed like that big of a deal. Ughhhhhhhhh, it's shit like this Blizzard, shit like this. . .
If anything I would have liked to have seen Infested Terrans nerfed a bit and NP just left alone and Fungal just changed a tiny amount like what they have done, THAT would have made sense to me, Blizzard seems absolutely clueless sometimes.
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i hate the hypocritical reason they gave for the range nerf. The zerg HAS to have better positioning than their opponent to get NP's off with NINE range. WIth 7 it just becomes worthless.
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On September 18 2011 03:26 BeeNu wrote:
I still really disagree that Infestors made ZvP Zerg favored, I mean, I'm just a lowly master league player but if I'm facing a Protoss who is better than me I'll still lose the game and look like a complete chump, Infestors don't change that for me, if they were really OP I'd imagine I would be able to stomp people even if they were outplaying me. Sure, I can see Fungal getting a bit of a nerf, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around any significant change happening to Infestors without fixing some of the critical problems with Hydras and Corruptors.
Having said that, the NP nerf completely baffles me, I don't think anybody was complaining about NP being overpowered at all, NP seemed completely balanced to me in all regards, depending on your play style if you revolved around Infestor use then it was still a very fragile and difficult technique to pull off with high reward if you could pull it off, yet far from unstoppable against a good Protoss or Terran, it all came down to micro and positioning. How does nerfing it to an unusable 7 range HELP the battles to be MORE about micro and positioning? It just blows my mind.
When I play as Zerg using Infestors and NP against Protoss I still have to be incredibly careful about where and when I engage and what my unit composition is or when the engagement comes I'll get completely steamrolled. When I play as Protoss I haven't had much difficulty battling against Infestors with NP either, I just use High Templar and try to Storm down the Infestors who are casting NP, it never seemed like that big of a deal. Ughhhhhhhhh, it's shit like this Blizzard, shit like this. . .
If anything I would have liked to have seen Infested Terrans nerfed a bit and NP just left alone and Fungal just changed a tiny amount like what they have done, THAT would have made sense to me, Blizzard seems absolutely clueless sometimes.
As much as I disagree about the Infestor being overpowered (the logic you gave is actually flawed, but more on that later), I do agree that the NP isn't what needs to be nerfed.
What a lot of players are saying is that the Infestor IS overpowered, but only because Blizzard used it to patch over the other flaws with Zerg. The Fungal is too good, the ITs are too good and the NP is average. The reason Blizzard don't want to nerf Fungal or ITs is because they think without the Infestor being used for that role the Zerg race can't deal with certain tactics. So instead they nerf the Infestor's ability that is actually superfluous so that they aren't as good. If that makes sense...
Unfortunately, the problem with that is it makes the game shit. Making mass Fungals viable isn't fun for anyone, and making Infestors a crutch unit makes the game one-dimensional, similar to Protoss with their only options for AoE (HTs/Colossi). Eventually, the game is going to be decided by the use of this one crutch unit, and that doesn't make for good game design. I still maintain that Zerg is still better off that Protoss - at least their crutch unit is actually good enough to carry the rest of the crappy design.
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i hate the hypocritical reason they gave for the range nerf. The zerg HAS to have better positioning than their opponent to get NP's off with NINE range. WIth 7 it just becomes worthless.
This.
With the new range nerf its going to be next to impossible to NP anything against a competent protoss. What blizzard needs to do for HOTS is make another zerg caster, preferably at hive tech. This could solve the issue of the infestor being far to versatile ala Destiny play.
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I think the funny part is that this changes absolutely nothing and the game loses content.
FG is still a very OP ability (and I'm zerg). Its what makes the infestor so dominant and really takes away the opponents ability to fight back. Infestors WILL STILL BE HEAVILY RELIED ON. So this changes nothing. All it does is it removes a fun spell from the game that had a promise (as well as being the most satisfying thing in the game to pull off correctly).
The correct way to balance this? Improve the minor zerg units so they aren't just speed bumps for the toss and terran. Hydras are actually expensive speed bumps and desperately need improvement. If this is done? Fine nerf the hell out of FG I don't care, I want a more fleshed out useful race anyways.
NP was fun as hell and its a real shame that its going to be next to worthless now. Trust me, 9 range made for difficult usage as the enemy only had to focus on the giant slug with the tentacle that died to very little focus. If they had any competence, they could easily cause the Z player to waste 150 gas everytime he tried a NP. FG was and still is far superior.
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On September 18 2011 03:36 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 03:26 BeeNu wrote:
I still really disagree that Infestors made ZvP Zerg favored, I mean, I'm just a lowly master league player but if I'm facing a Protoss who is better than me I'll still lose the game and look like a complete chump, Infestors don't change that for me, if they were really OP I'd imagine I would be able to stomp people even if they were outplaying me. Sure, I can see Fungal getting a bit of a nerf, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around any significant change happening to Infestors without fixing some of the critical problems with Hydras and Corruptors.
Having said that, the NP nerf completely baffles me, I don't think anybody was complaining about NP being overpowered at all, NP seemed completely balanced to me in all regards, depending on your play style if you revolved around Infestor use then it was still a very fragile and difficult technique to pull off with high reward if you could pull it off, yet far from unstoppable against a good Protoss or Terran, it all came down to micro and positioning. How does nerfing it to an unusable 7 range HELP the battles to be MORE about micro and positioning? It just blows my mind.
When I play as Zerg using Infestors and NP against Protoss I still have to be incredibly careful about where and when I engage and what my unit composition is or when the engagement comes I'll get completely steamrolled. When I play as Protoss I haven't had much difficulty battling against Infestors with NP either, I just use High Templar and try to Storm down the Infestors who are casting NP, it never seemed like that big of a deal. Ughhhhhhhhh, it's shit like this Blizzard, shit like this. . .
If anything I would have liked to have seen Infested Terrans nerfed a bit and NP just left alone and Fungal just changed a tiny amount like what they have done, THAT would have made sense to me, Blizzard seems absolutely clueless sometimes. As much as I disagree about the Infestor being overpowered (the logic you gave is actually flawed, but more on that later), I do agree that the NP isn't what needs to be nerfed. What a lot of players are saying is that the Infestor IS overpowered, but only because Blizzard used it to patch over the other flaws with Zerg. The Fungal is too good, the ITs are too good and the NP is average. The reason Blizzard don't want to nerf Fungal or ITs is because they think without the Infestor being used for that role the Zerg race can't deal with certain tactics. So instead they nerf the Infestor's ability that is actually superfluous so that they aren't as good. If that makes sense... Unfortunately, the problem with that is it makes the game shit. Making mass Fungals viable isn't fun for anyone, and making Infestors a crutch unit makes the game one-dimensional, similar to Protoss with their only options for AoE (HTs/Colossi). Eventually, the game is going to be decided by the use of this one crutch unit, and that doesn't make for good game design. I still maintain that Zerg is still better off that Protoss - at least their crutch unit is actually good enough to carry the rest of the crappy design.
Well that's basically what I was saying. Infestors are overpowered, but not within the context of the whole race. The only reason they are overpowered is because they need to be because Blizzard for whatever reason refuses to change the things about Zerg that are underpowered. It's pretty ridiculous.
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On September 18 2011 03:46 BeeNu wrote:
Well that's basically what I was saying. Infestors are overpowered, but not within the context of the whole race. The only reason they are overpowered is because they need to be because Blizzard for whatever reason refuses to change the things about Zerg that are underpowered. It's pretty ridiculous.
Oh, right. Sorry. In which case I agree with you completely ^___^
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On September 18 2011 03:36 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 03:26 BeeNu wrote:
I still really disagree that Infestors made ZvP Zerg favored, I mean, I'm just a lowly master league player but if I'm facing a Protoss who is better than me I'll still lose the game and look like a complete chump, Infestors don't change that for me, if they were really OP I'd imagine I would be able to stomp people even if they were outplaying me. Sure, I can see Fungal getting a bit of a nerf, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around any significant change happening to Infestors without fixing some of the critical problems with Hydras and Corruptors.
Having said that, the NP nerf completely baffles me, I don't think anybody was complaining about NP being overpowered at all, NP seemed completely balanced to me in all regards, depending on your play style if you revolved around Infestor use then it was still a very fragile and difficult technique to pull off with high reward if you could pull it off, yet far from unstoppable against a good Protoss or Terran, it all came down to micro and positioning. How does nerfing it to an unusable 7 range HELP the battles to be MORE about micro and positioning? It just blows my mind.
When I play as Zerg using Infestors and NP against Protoss I still have to be incredibly careful about where and when I engage and what my unit composition is or when the engagement comes I'll get completely steamrolled. When I play as Protoss I haven't had much difficulty battling against Infestors with NP either, I just use High Templar and try to Storm down the Infestors who are casting NP, it never seemed like that big of a deal. Ughhhhhhhhh, it's shit like this Blizzard, shit like this. . .
If anything I would have liked to have seen Infested Terrans nerfed a bit and NP just left alone and Fungal just changed a tiny amount like what they have done, THAT would have made sense to me, Blizzard seems absolutely clueless sometimes. As much as I disagree about the Infestor being overpowered (the logic you gave is actually flawed, but more on that later), I do agree that the NP isn't what needs to be nerfed. What a lot of players are saying is that the Infestor IS overpowered, but only because Blizzard used it to patch over the other flaws with Zerg. The Fungal is too good, the ITs are too good and the NP is average. The reason Blizzard don't want to nerf Fungal or ITs is because they think without the Infestor being used for that role the Zerg race can't deal with certain tactics. So instead they nerf the Infestor's ability that is actually superfluous so that they aren't as good. If that makes sense... Unfortunately, the problem with that is it makes the game shit. Making mass Fungals viable isn't fun for anyone, and making Infestors a crutch unit makes the game one-dimensional, similar to Protoss with their only options for AoE (HTs/Colossi). Eventually, the game is going to be decided by the use of this one crutch unit, and that doesn't make for good game design. I still maintain that Zerg is still better off that Protoss - at least their crutch unit is actually good enough to carry the rest of the crappy design.
Pretty much the game has come down to who can feedback the ghost before the emp or who can feedback the infestors before the big fungle.
its starting to make the game really boring to play/watch.
There's just not much variety you can do in the late game. Its just make spell casters+units and see who can micro better.
Hopefully hots changes things
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On September 18 2011 02:00 SeaSwift wrote:This seems to be a misconception with the Hydralisk. Sure, compared to its BW speed, it is damn slow but then, so are things like Void Rays (compared to their nearest BW equivalent). Actually, the Hydra has speed 2.25, the same as Sentries and Colossi. Everyone complains about Colossi, but not because they're fast. I don't think the speed is the problem with Hydras. I think it is just their low HP and the fact that while their DPS is high, it isn't high enough to compensate for their low HP. They are especially crap DPS-wise when compared to their nearest equivalent, the Marine. But then everybody complains about the Marine... So, to the guy I quoted, I absolutely agree with the rest of what you said but not really with the speed problem. Hydras in ZvP are mostly used nowadays in drops, if at all, and they don't require much speed for drops. Unfortunately, the problem with increasing Hydras' speed is that they end up being compared too much to Roaches, and then you end up with them both fulfilling the same role. Like it or not, the Roach is here to stay so I would prefer it if Hydras just got a straight buff to their DPS, and Roaches got a slight nerf to their health as otherwise a plain Roach/Hydra composition would roll Protoss. I see the future of PvZ being in Infestors rooting the army down/slowing it down (depending on whether Fungal is changed) and then Banelings being dropped on the defence. If Hydras are buffed, I can see them being used for general AA/Damage dealing lategame and also to be dropped round the back.
Problem is, the unit needs either speed or HP. It can't do with having neither. The glass cannon idea is a good one, but the DPS isn't even high enough to compensate for its lack of other good attributes. I like the idea, I really do but its poorly implemented. I'm really not sure how to fix it but I hope the good folks at blizzard come up with something to make it more useful.
And its been bitched about endlessly, but the corrupter really needs improvement as well. I hope in HoS they do away with this unit or give it something interesting because right now, its a click-and-kill unit that has a pseudo ability that doesn't make for interesting play. It's not even very good at what it does, vikings not only do everything it does better, but can be built quickly with reactors.
If blizzard buffed the corrupter and hydra, I'd be a happy man. They can fix infestors to compensate
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On September 18 2011 03:45 JamesJohansen wrote:
I think the funny part is that this changes absolutely nothing and the game loses content.
FG is still a very OP ability (and I'm zerg). Its what makes the infestor so dominant and really takes away the opponents ability to fight back. Infestors WILL STILL BE HEAVILY RELIED ON. So this changes nothing. All it does is it removes a fun spell from the game that had a promise (as well as being the most satisfying thing in the game to pull off correctly).
The correct way to balance this? Improve the minor zerg units so they aren't just speed bumps for the toss and terran. Hydras are actually expensive speed bumps and desperately need improvement. If this is done? Fine nerf the hell out of FG I don't care, I want a more fleshed out useful race anyways.
NP was fun as hell and its a real shame that its going to be next to worthless now. Trust me, 9 range made for difficult usage as the enemy only had to focus on the giant slug with the tentacle that died to very little focus. If they had any competence, they could easily cause the Z player to waste 150 gas everytime he tried a NP. FG was and still is far superior.
Well as I see it, the change is basically to not have infestor the awesome counter to everything. Don't get me wrong, FG is the reason why the infestor is so powerful, but like people have said before me, the whole race is kind of... reliant(to some extend) on having FG, so they change how NP works, so while the infestor can be used against massive targets, it isn't ideal. I didn't like removing it being used on massive, but I think this is an interesting change in the least.
Ofcourse the best change would be to make hydras better in some way(though again it's a bit hard to find a balanced way, since before aoe, they arent really that bad, aslong as they can get to combat in a timely fashion[mostly thinking vP, lets face it, the design of the rine makes any non aoe unit suck in vT]).
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On September 18 2011 04:11 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 03:45 JamesJohansen wrote:
I think the funny part is that this changes absolutely nothing and the game loses content.
FG is still a very OP ability (and I'm zerg). Its what makes the infestor so dominant and really takes away the opponents ability to fight back. Infestors WILL STILL BE HEAVILY RELIED ON. So this changes nothing. All it does is it removes a fun spell from the game that had a promise (as well as being the most satisfying thing in the game to pull off correctly).
The correct way to balance this? Improve the minor zerg units so they aren't just speed bumps for the toss and terran. Hydras are actually expensive speed bumps and desperately need improvement. If this is done? Fine nerf the hell out of FG I don't care, I want a more fleshed out useful race anyways.
NP was fun as hell and its a real shame that its going to be next to worthless now. Trust me, 9 range made for difficult usage as the enemy only had to focus on the giant slug with the tentacle that died to very little focus. If they had any competence, they could easily cause the Z player to waste 150 gas everytime he tried a NP. FG was and still is far superior. Well as I see it, the change is basically to not have infestor the awesome counter to everything. Don't get me wrong, FG is the reason why the infestor is so powerful, but like people have said before me, the whole race is kind of... reliant(to some extend) on having FG, so they change how NP works, so while the infestor can be used against massive targets, it isn't ideal. I didn't like removing it being used on massive, but I think this is an interesting change in the least. Ofcourse the best change would be to make hydras better in some way(though again it's a bit hard to find a balanced way, since before aoe, they arent really that bad, aslong as they can get to combat in a timely fashion[mostly thinking vP, lets face it, the design of the rine makes any non aoe unit suck in vT]).
Wat. Can't Zerglings, Roaches and Hydras all fight marines cost-effectively? I know Zerglings match marines with even upgrades (problem being that marines ultimately have more upgrades) and that roaches are pretty damn good against marines, while hydras are reasonably comparable to marines despite being so gas-costly.
Marines aren't that great. They're an incredibly versatile unit and really, really shine when nothing can attack them (drops, hiding behind siege tanks, in bunkers etc) but when you've actually got marines going up against other things in a normal fight, they don't actually shine that brightly.
...at least against Zerg. It might be a different story for protoss, because Stalkers are low dps + high survivability and zealots do good damage, but are slow as shit...
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On September 18 2011 01:11 Aborash wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 01:03 Huntz wrote:Yah sure buddy he specifically says workers yet now you insist he meant lings when you realized you fucked up and now look stupid Given the context he definitely meant lings, even if he typed workers. No need to get all aggressive I just realized that blueflame nerf might make lings more viable against mech, nope, blue flame hellions still 2 shot workers like before it doesn't affect that at all. ![[image loading]](http://web.tiscali.it/famigliabenetti/davide/images/faccine/sisi.gif) Best part is that he though he is right, and keep coming.
The best part is he actually said workers. I was talking about what he SAID and what I quoted him saying. My apologies if he meant something different than what he specifically stated, dunno how that makes me wrong though.
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On September 17 2011 17:32 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 17:04 blade55555 wrote:On September 17 2011 11:25 boon2537 wrote:
I just realized that blueflame nerf might make lings more viable against mech, compensating the infestor nerf. I still don't get the barrack build time nerf...most zerg adapts to 2 rax pretty well already. So, it's suppose to make 11/12 rax weaker on close position? nope, blue flame hellions still 2 shot workers like before it doesn't affect that at all. No they don't.
I meant lings my bad xD
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On September 18 2011 11:15 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 17:32 Ryder. wrote:On September 17 2011 17:04 blade55555 wrote:On September 17 2011 11:25 boon2537 wrote:
I just realized that blueflame nerf might make lings more viable against mech, compensating the infestor nerf. I still don't get the barrack build time nerf...most zerg adapts to 2 rax pretty well already. So, it's suppose to make 11/12 rax weaker on close position? nope, blue flame hellions still 2 shot workers like before it doesn't affect that at all. No they don't. I meant lings my bad xD
Haha we know now bro :p
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7 range is a huge infestor nerf.. yet the ghost remains as OP as ever since release. Fail patch.
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On September 18 2011 08:52 Staboteur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 04:11 Zarahtra wrote:On September 18 2011 03:45 JamesJohansen wrote:
I think the funny part is that this changes absolutely nothing and the game loses content.
FG is still a very OP ability (and I'm zerg). Its what makes the infestor so dominant and really takes away the opponents ability to fight back. Infestors WILL STILL BE HEAVILY RELIED ON. So this changes nothing. All it does is it removes a fun spell from the game that had a promise (as well as being the most satisfying thing in the game to pull off correctly).
The correct way to balance this? Improve the minor zerg units so they aren't just speed bumps for the toss and terran. Hydras are actually expensive speed bumps and desperately need improvement. If this is done? Fine nerf the hell out of FG I don't care, I want a more fleshed out useful race anyways.
NP was fun as hell and its a real shame that its going to be next to worthless now. Trust me, 9 range made for difficult usage as the enemy only had to focus on the giant slug with the tentacle that died to very little focus. If they had any competence, they could easily cause the Z player to waste 150 gas everytime he tried a NP. FG was and still is far superior. Well as I see it, the change is basically to not have infestor the awesome counter to everything. Don't get me wrong, FG is the reason why the infestor is so powerful, but like people have said before me, the whole race is kind of... reliant(to some extend) on having FG, so they change how NP works, so while the infestor can be used against massive targets, it isn't ideal. I didn't like removing it being used on massive, but I think this is an interesting change in the least. Ofcourse the best change would be to make hydras better in some way(though again it's a bit hard to find a balanced way, since before aoe, they arent really that bad, aslong as they can get to combat in a timely fashion[mostly thinking vP, lets face it, the design of the rine makes any non aoe unit suck in vT]). Wat. Can't Zerglings, Roaches and Hydras all fight marines cost-effectively? I know Zerglings match marines with even upgrades (problem being that marines ultimately have more upgrades) and that roaches are pretty damn good against marines, while hydras are reasonably comparable to marines despite being so gas-costly. Marines aren't that great. They're an incredibly versatile unit and really, really shine when nothing can attack them (drops, hiding behind siege tanks, in bunkers etc) but when you've actually got marines going up against other things in a normal fight, they don't actually shine that brightly. ...at least against Zerg. It might be a different story for protoss, because Stalkers are low dps + high survivability and zealots do good damage, but are slow as shit...
No, lings and roaches are terrible against marines in any significant numbers at all. Lings have to be ahead in upgrades and roaches can just about break even in equal cost fights if you're ahead in carapace over their attack upgrade. Hydras are absolutely abysmal cost wise. Without banelings or infestors it's really fucking hard to deal with marines with stim or just any large ball of marines. And even then if it's banelings you have to find a way to apply them without losing them all to tank shots and to corner the marines to prevent stim micro from killing all of them anyways.
Marines are really fucking good. I don;t know how you can claim they aren't when they are the most complained about unit in the game since GSL open season 2 and probably earlier.
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On September 18 2011 08:52 Staboteur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 04:11 Zarahtra wrote:On September 18 2011 03:45 JamesJohansen wrote:
I think the funny part is that this changes absolutely nothing and the game loses content.
FG is still a very OP ability (and I'm zerg). Its what makes the infestor so dominant and really takes away the opponents ability to fight back. Infestors WILL STILL BE HEAVILY RELIED ON. So this changes nothing. All it does is it removes a fun spell from the game that had a promise (as well as being the most satisfying thing in the game to pull off correctly).
The correct way to balance this? Improve the minor zerg units so they aren't just speed bumps for the toss and terran. Hydras are actually expensive speed bumps and desperately need improvement. If this is done? Fine nerf the hell out of FG I don't care, I want a more fleshed out useful race anyways.
NP was fun as hell and its a real shame that its going to be next to worthless now. Trust me, 9 range made for difficult usage as the enemy only had to focus on the giant slug with the tentacle that died to very little focus. If they had any competence, they could easily cause the Z player to waste 150 gas everytime he tried a NP. FG was and still is far superior. Well as I see it, the change is basically to not have infestor the awesome counter to everything. Don't get me wrong, FG is the reason why the infestor is so powerful, but like people have said before me, the whole race is kind of... reliant(to some extend) on having FG, so they change how NP works, so while the infestor can be used against massive targets, it isn't ideal. I didn't like removing it being used on massive, but I think this is an interesting change in the least. Ofcourse the best change would be to make hydras better in some way(though again it's a bit hard to find a balanced way, since before aoe, they arent really that bad, aslong as they can get to combat in a timely fashion[mostly thinking vP, lets face it, the design of the rine makes any non aoe unit suck in vT]). Wat. Can't Zerglings, Roaches and Hydras all fight marines cost-effectively? I know Zerglings match marines with even upgrades (problem being that marines ultimately have more upgrades) and that roaches are pretty damn good against marines, while hydras are reasonably comparable to marines despite being so gas-costly. Marines aren't that great. They're an incredibly versatile unit and really, really shine when nothing can attack them (drops, hiding behind siege tanks, in bunkers etc) but when you've actually got marines going up against other things in a normal fight, they don't actually shine that brightly. ...at least against Zerg. It might be a different story for protoss, because Stalkers are low dps + high survivability and zealots do good damage, but are slow as shit...
There isn't a single non-AOE unit in this game that is cost effective against Marines.
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i cant understand some zerg players atm, isnt still having neural still work on massive better then not having it at all?
I know the range nerf makes it harder but personaly i'd rather have it like that then not at all
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 18 2011 04:11 Zarahtra wrote:
Well as I see it, the change is basically to not have infestor the awesome counter to everything. Don't get me wrong, FG is the reason why the infestor is so powerful, but like people have said before me, the whole race is kind of... reliant(to some extend) on having FG, so they change how NP works, so while the infestor can be used against massive targets, it isn't ideal. I didn't like removing it being used on massive, but I think this is an interesting change in the least.
Ofcourse the best change would be to make hydras better in some way(though again it's a bit hard to find a balanced way, since before aoe, they arent really that bad, aslong as they can get to combat in a timely fashion[mostly thinking vP, lets face it, the design of the rine makes any non aoe unit suck in vT]).
I think fixing hydra would be easy. First, the range upgrade needs to be inherent. This gives them a slight buff (not really) to them when they're available. To balance them for T3, replace the grooved spines upgrade in hydra den with an armor upgrade like in the ultra den. Or a health boost, like combat shield.
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The wording of the patch notes talks about "unit composition". Its my belief that Blizzard are not trying to nerf the actual unit but trying to defer people from massing it. IMO, they see the infestor as a support unit and are not comfortable with it as a mass army unit.
The NP nerf is a by product of having a lot of infestors on the battlefield building up energy for their next fungal attack. Anyone who is thinking that infestors will be useless in the mid/late game will now be more reluctant to build them in mass.
As a low level zerg player, i can see myself limiting my infestor play to zero if the micro to use NP becomes impossible and fungal is not as effective (there are plenty of other cheaper units i can send to the battlefield to die). It will be interesting to see.
Also, if infestor play is reduced because of this in the leagues where it counts, T3 may be a little slower as the IP wont be built as early.
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EPT
