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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Match
215 Posts
On September 17 2011 18:46 Gummy wrote: Do be fair, protoss players always build probes. And I don't know of any protoss strategies that don't include at least 1 stalker or at least 1 zealot. Fast two gates for three stalkers in PvP. Owned. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On September 17 2011 21:00 Match wrote: Fast two gates for three stalkers in PvP. Owned. "At least a stalker or a zealot" and you "own" him by suggesting the 3-stalker rush? I am somewhat certain that 3-stalker rush at least gets a stalker. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On September 17 2011 21:55 EmilA wrote: "At least a stalker or a zealot" and you "own" him by suggesting the 3-stalker rush? I am somewhat certain that 3-stalker rush at least gets a stalker. It also gets Zealots down the line in pretty much every PvP, so I don't really get it either... | ||
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Aborash
65 Posts
Yes they do. 8 dmg + 6 vs Light + 5 pre-igniter = 19 dmg *2 = 38 dmg. Ling HP = 35 ![[image loading]](http://www.sportcarclub.com/foro/images/smiles/102.gif) Is this ironic? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11397055 | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On September 18 2011 00:14 Aborash wrote: Yes they do. 8 dmg + 6 vs Light + 5 pre-igniter = 19 dmg *2 = 38 dmg. Ling HP = 35 Is this ironic? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11397055 Maybe you should pay more attention to where he said 2 shot 'workers' not lings'. Last time I checked lings aren't workers. Yeah ironic huh? | ||
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Aborash
65 Posts
![[image loading]](http://web.tiscali.it/famigliabenetti/davide/images/faccine/sisi.gif) | ||
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Serantir
United States11 Posts
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JamesJohansen
United States213 Posts
I'm a zerg, so obviously I might feel more strongly about this than most, but I don't even think about denying that the infestor was too strong. It needed a nerf, a massive nerf. Having a unit that fucks everything's shit up is just not a good idea balance wise [insert witty comment about marine here]. However, the problem was and still is 90% on fungal growth, which hasn't been nerfed enough IMO. NP was far from the problem and was one of the most fun and exciting spells in the game. Even before this, NP was far from OP. It was tricky to pull off if your enemy was on top of things and cost your infestor a precious FG which was and still is far superior. Fact of the matter is, blizzard took the complete wrong approach here. In my humble opinion, they should have further nerfed FG instead so it finally no longer has a complete fucking rob of unit mobility (should function like ensnare from BW). This would have been far more sensical than nerfing NP which, once again, was far from OP and wasn't exactly gamechanging unless done in the perfect place and time (hey, that sounds like its functioning as it should be). My .02$. I'm sure its been said before, but 440 pages is a lot to read | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On September 18 2011 00:27 Aborash wrote: Blade55555 refers to lings Yah sure buddy he specifically says workers yet now you insist he meant lings when you realized you fucked up and now look stupid? As I said; people should stop posting bullshit and ensure what they are saying is true before they say it. Exhibit A. | ||
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Aborash
65 Posts
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Huntz
164 Posts
Yah sure buddy he specifically says workers yet now you insist he meant lings when you realized you fucked up and now look stupid Given the context he definitely meant lings, even if he typed workers. No need to get all aggressive I just realized that blueflame nerf might make lings more viable against mech, nope, blue flame hellions still 2 shot workers like before it doesn't affect that at all. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On September 18 2011 00:48 JamesJohansen wrote: Honestly, this patch went from very good too terrible very fast. I'm a zerg, so obviously I might feel more strongly about this than most, but I don't even think about denying that the infestor was too strong. It needed a nerf, a massive nerf. Having a unit that fucks everything's shit up is just not a good idea balance wise [insert witty comment about marine here]. However, the problem was and still is 90% on fungal growth, which hasn't been nerfed enough IMO. NP was far from the problem and was one of the most fun and exciting spells in the game. Even before this, NP was far from OP. It was tricky to pull off if your enemy was on top of things and cost your infestor a precious FG which was and still is far superior. Fact of the matter is, blizzard took the complete wrong approach here. In my humble opinion, they should have further nerfed FG instead so it finally no longer has a complete fucking rob of unit mobility (should function like ensnare from BW). This would have been far more sensical than nerfing NP which, once again, was far from OP and wasn't exactly gamechanging unless done in the perfect place and time (hey, that sounds like its functioning as it should be). My .02$. I'm sure its been said before, but 440 pages is a lot to read Absolutely agree. Well said, and I play Protoss. I think that's a common view, which makes it all the more important that it is said. | ||
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Aborash
65 Posts
On September 18 2011 01:03 Huntz wrote: Given the context he definitely meant lings, even if he typed workers. No need to get all aggressive Best part is that he though he is right, and keep coming. | ||
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Tezzick
Canada187 Posts
On September 18 2011 00:48 JamesJohansen wrote: Honestly, this patch went from very good too terrible very fast. I'm a zerg, so obviously I might feel more strongly about this than most, but I don't even think about denying that the infestor was too strong. It needed a nerf, a massive nerf. Having a unit that fucks everything's shit up is just not a good idea balance wise [insert witty comment about marine here]. However, the problem was and still is 90% on fungal growth, which hasn't been nerfed enough IMO. NP was far from the problem and was one of the most fun and exciting spells in the game. Even before this, NP was far from OP. It was tricky to pull off if your enemy was on top of things and cost your infestor a precious FG which was and still is far superior. Fact of the matter is, blizzard took the complete wrong approach here. In my humble opinion, they should have further nerfed FG instead so it finally no longer has a complete fucking rob of unit mobility (should function like ensnare from BW). This would have been far more sensical than nerfing NP which, once again, was far from OP and wasn't exactly gamechanging unless done in the perfect place and time (hey, that sounds like its functioning as it should be). My .02$. I'm sure its been said before, but 440 pages is a lot to read I think orb said something about this the other day in his stream, and I've seen a lot of people talking about it. Fungal should reduce movement speed and disallow blink, charge, etc. Way better then nerfing NP. | ||
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birdkicker
United States752 Posts
On September 18 2011 01:11 Aborash wrote: Best part is that he though he is right, and keep coming. the fuck is up with that smiley lol...cracks me up. | ||
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Jumonji
France60 Posts
Fungal should reduce movement speed and disallow blink, charge, etc. Way better then nerfing NP. So where is the DPS unit, zerg is waiting for? Hydra? The real thing is to completly change "hydras" and make it a viable dps unit not this awfull shit , that need 150/150 to get a normal range ( same as immortal lol), and have no speed and low hp. Just after this rebuild, blizzard can nerf the fungal growth enough to get everyone satisfied. That's the only way infestor could be a "good" support unit and not this OP unit. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On September 18 2011 01:54 Jumonji wrote:no speed . This seems to be a misconception with the Hydralisk. Sure, compared to its BW speed, it is damn slow but then, so are things like Void Rays (compared to their nearest BW equivalent). Actually, the Hydra has speed 2.25, the same as Sentries and Colossi. Everyone complains about Colossi, but not because they're fast. I don't think the speed is the problem with Hydras. I think it is just their low HP and the fact that while their DPS is high, it isn't high enough to compensate for their low HP. They are especially crap DPS-wise when compared to their nearest equivalent, the Marine. But then everybody complains about the Marine... So, to the guy I quoted, I absolutely agree with the rest of what you said but not really with the speed problem. Hydras in ZvP are mostly used nowadays in drops, if at all, and they don't require much speed for drops. Unfortunately, the problem with increasing Hydras' speed is that they end up being compared too much to Roaches, and then you end up with them both fulfilling the same role. Like it or not, the Roach is here to stay so I would prefer it if Hydras just got a straight buff to their DPS, and Roaches got a slight nerf to their health as otherwise a plain Roach/Hydra composition would roll Protoss. I see the future of PvZ being in Infestors rooting the army down/slowing it down (depending on whether Fungal is changed) and then Banelings being dropped on the defence. If Hydras are buffed, I can see them being used for general AA/Damage dealing lategame and also to be dropped round the back. | ||
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Jumonji
France60 Posts
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
On September 17 2011 18:41 Olsson wrote: 1. What unit changed ZvP and made ZvP winnable for zerg? 2. What is blizzard doing to it now? 3. What will happen next? 1. Infestor. 2. Nerfing it. 3. Roach/Hydra/Corruptor. 1. What unit made PvZ zerg favored? 2. What is blizzard doing to it now? 3. What will happen next? 1. Infestor. 2. Hopefully nerfing fungal also. 3. A balanced matchup. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On September 18 2011 02:06 Jumonji wrote: IMO hydra is in the same position the roach was when it was a very low range unit ( only 3). Blizzard have to re-think the unit, so she could have her " place" in zerg viable strategy Roaches were still good before they got a range buff, no matter what Idra says. | ||
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