|
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 10 2011 04:26 Rorschach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:20 how2TL wrote:On September 10 2011 04:19 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. quoted for truth... i really thought the days of zerg whine were behind us..... I guess they should nerf Cannon Rushes then. because people are winning tournaments with them?
Neural Parasite isn't winning tournaments either.
If Infestors got Destiny into Grand Masters, then cannon rushes got Deezer/CombatEX there. Therefore if you think the truth is that Infestors are overpowered, so are cannon rushes, based on you agreeing with the other guy's logic.
|
On September 10 2011 09:15 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:26 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 04:20 how2TL wrote:On September 10 2011 04:19 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. quoted for truth... i really thought the days of zerg whine were behind us..... I guess they should nerf Cannon Rushes then. because people are winning tournaments with them? Neural Parasite isn't winning tournaments either. If Infestors got Destiny into Grand Masters, then cannon rushes got Deezer/CombatEX there. Therefore if you think the truth is that Infestors are overpowered, so are cannon rushes, based on you agreeing with the other guy's logic.
I am beginning to believe that because of people like you that these forums are no better then the Bnet forums.....
|
On September 10 2011 09:12 hunts wrote:
neural change is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from blizzard yet. Yeah infstor is a bit too good of a unit as is, but it's basicly the only thing actually keeping Z viable as a race. If they want to really nerf ifnestors, they need to buff zerg elsewhere to keep it viable, but they aren't doing that. They nerfed fungal with no compensation, but that was fine because it wasn't a huge nerf. But now they are doing a huge nerf, and still no compensation. The overseer buff while nice still in no way helps the actual Z army. And while the ultra buff is better than nothing, it still doesn't help the actual zerg army because honeslty, ultras are still useless and will die before getting to their targets, even if they are fungald.
you listen to idra a bit too much
|
lol at people who thinkg destiny isnt a legit, decent player. also i, as a zerg like the infestor nerfs, because im sure they will buff other things zerg lategame as compensation
|
On September 10 2011 08:50 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 08:25 ReignFayth wrote:
every protoss on europe gets demolished by stephano and morrow currently, and he abuses infestor like destiny, except his mechanic is probably much better Fixed. While I understand the frustration Zergs must feel at having their race nerfed, there is absolutely no way a balanced matchup can consistently produce results like VTgiX 3-2 HuK, Strifecro 2-1 JYP, MorroW 10-1 Puzzle or w/e the final score was, Destiny 3-1 Puzzle, Destiny 2-0 STAce. You literally never hear about lower tier Protoss players beating world class Zergs. Wouldn't you be asking for drastic balance changes if you saw results like Attero beating Losira, Deezer beating Nestea, etc? Hell, many Zergs were even preemptively claiming that if Inca took any games off of Nestea in the code S final it would be proof of Protoss being too strong, and the skill gap there is probably about 1% as large as the skill gap between Destiny and Puzzle, for example. Yes the NP nerf sounds drastic on paper, but really, when a matchup is in this state (and has been ever since April), it's not gonna be fixed by changing the build time of random stuff by 5 seconds.
To be perfectly straight with you, I can't make myself care about that right now. I love watching SC2 and I want to see an equitable distribution of the races in high level play - but it's still a game I play too. And the one big thing I'm struggling to love SC2 despite, right now, is how dull and predictable and easily pushed-around I feel as Zerg. And with this patch I just got a bit duller, a bit more predictable, and a bit more easily pushed-around.
|
On September 10 2011 09:15 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:26 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 04:20 how2TL wrote:On September 10 2011 04:19 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. quoted for truth... i really thought the days of zerg whine were behind us..... I guess they should nerf Cannon Rushes then. because people are winning tournaments with them? Neural Parasite isn't winning tournaments either. If Infestors got Destiny into Grand Masters, then cannon rushes got Deezer/CombatEX there. Therefore if you think the truth is that Infestors are overpowered, so are cannon rushes, based on you agreeing with the other guy's logic.
deezer almost never cannon rush...
|
On September 10 2011 09:21 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 09:12 hunts wrote:
neural change is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from blizzard yet. Yeah infstor is a bit too good of a unit as is, but it's basicly the only thing actually keeping Z viable as a race. If they want to really nerf ifnestors, they need to buff zerg elsewhere to keep it viable, but they aren't doing that. They nerfed fungal with no compensation, but that was fine because it wasn't a huge nerf. But now they are doing a huge nerf, and still no compensation. The overseer buff while nice still in no way helps the actual Z army. And while the ultra buff is better than nothing, it still doesn't help the actual zerg army because honeslty, ultras are still useless and will die before getting to their targets, even if they are fungald. you listen to idra a bit too much
usually if you think what someone said is wrong you try to point out why, instead of attempting to insult them.
|
On September 10 2011 09:22 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 08:50 iamke55 wrote:On September 10 2011 08:25 ReignFayth wrote:
every protoss on europe gets demolished by stephano and morrow currently, and he abuses infestor like destiny, except his mechanic is probably much better Fixed. While I understand the frustration Zergs must feel at having their race nerfed, there is absolutely no way a balanced matchup can consistently produce results like VTgiX 3-2 HuK, Strifecro 2-1 JYP, MorroW 10-1 Puzzle or w/e the final score was, Destiny 3-1 Puzzle, Destiny 2-0 STAce. You literally never hear about lower tier Protoss players beating world class Zergs. Wouldn't you be asking for drastic balance changes if you saw results like Attero beating Losira, Deezer beating Nestea, etc? Hell, many Zergs were even preemptively claiming that if Inca took any games off of Nestea in the code S final it would be proof of Protoss being too strong, and the skill gap there is probably about 1% as large as the skill gap between Destiny and Puzzle, for example. Yes the NP nerf sounds drastic on paper, but really, when a matchup is in this state (and has been ever since April), it's not gonna be fixed by changing the build time of random stuff by 5 seconds. To be perfectly straight with you, I can't make myself care about that right now. I love watching SC2 and I want to see an equitable distribution of the races in high level play - but it's still a game I play too. And the one big thing I'm struggling to love SC2 despite, right now, is how dull and predictable and easily pushed-around I feel as Zerg. And with this patch I just got a bit duller, a bit more predictable, and a bit more easily pushed-around.
a bit more predictable? you mean a bit more unpredictable?
cuz if u think zergs were unpredictable nowadays, you're way off -.-
|
On September 10 2011 09:24 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 09:21 ReignFayth wrote:On September 10 2011 09:12 hunts wrote:
neural change is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from blizzard yet. Yeah infstor is a bit too good of a unit as is, but it's basicly the only thing actually keeping Z viable as a race. If they want to really nerf ifnestors, they need to buff zerg elsewhere to keep it viable, but they aren't doing that. They nerfed fungal with no compensation, but that was fine because it wasn't a huge nerf. But now they are doing a huge nerf, and still no compensation. The overseer buff while nice still in no way helps the actual Z army. And while the ultra buff is better than nothing, it still doesn't help the actual zerg army because honeslty, ultras are still useless and will die before getting to their targets, even if they are fungald. you listen to idra a bit too much usually if you think what someone said is wrong you try to point out why, instead of attempting to insult them.
I'm just saying you're literally not even giving your opinion but someone elses
zerg is going to be just fine with this nerf
|
On September 10 2011 09:25 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 09:24 hunts wrote:On September 10 2011 09:21 ReignFayth wrote:On September 10 2011 09:12 hunts wrote:
neural change is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from blizzard yet. Yeah infstor is a bit too good of a unit as is, but it's basicly the only thing actually keeping Z viable as a race. If they want to really nerf ifnestors, they need to buff zerg elsewhere to keep it viable, but they aren't doing that. They nerfed fungal with no compensation, but that was fine because it wasn't a huge nerf. But now they are doing a huge nerf, and still no compensation. The overseer buff while nice still in no way helps the actual Z army. And while the ultra buff is better than nothing, it still doesn't help the actual zerg army because honeslty, ultras are still useless and will die before getting to their targets, even if they are fungald. you listen to idra a bit too much usually if you think what someone said is wrong you try to point out why, instead of attempting to insult them. I'm just saying you're literally not even giving your opinion but someone elses zerg is going to be just fine with this nerf
no that is my opinion, I haven't seen a statement from idra about it.
|
when did goody switch to protoss? o.o
Never, the point was that in Starcraft 2, the best player does not always win, this apply for every race.
Like i said, this nerf will reward bad, blind play, i dont see how more "unpredictable" this will make the game, colossus will just mass colossus every game (Even if they never really stopped to do it) and zerg will mass corrupteur, end of story.
|
On September 10 2011 09:25 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 09:24 hunts wrote:On September 10 2011 09:21 ReignFayth wrote:On September 10 2011 09:12 hunts wrote:
neural change is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from blizzard yet. Yeah infstor is a bit too good of a unit as is, but it's basicly the only thing actually keeping Z viable as a race. If they want to really nerf ifnestors, they need to buff zerg elsewhere to keep it viable, but they aren't doing that. They nerfed fungal with no compensation, but that was fine because it wasn't a huge nerf. But now they are doing a huge nerf, and still no compensation. The overseer buff while nice still in no way helps the actual Z army. And while the ultra buff is better than nothing, it still doesn't help the actual zerg army because honeslty, ultras are still useless and will die before getting to their targets, even if they are fungald. you listen to idra a bit too much usually if you think what someone said is wrong you try to point out why, instead of attempting to insult them. I'm just saying you're literally not even giving your opinion but someone elses zerg is going to be just fine with this nerf
WTF are you talking about, he didn't say anything about Idra, he's just doing the same thing everyone else is and giving his opinion on the possible changes. I'm pretty sure Idra isn't the only zerg out there who thinks completely neutering an ability from what its always been intended to do is a bad idea. Some are just more articulate than others.
|
On September 10 2011 09:27 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 09:25 ReignFayth wrote:On September 10 2011 09:24 hunts wrote:On September 10 2011 09:21 ReignFayth wrote:On September 10 2011 09:12 hunts wrote:
neural change is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from blizzard yet. Yeah infstor is a bit too good of a unit as is, but it's basicly the only thing actually keeping Z viable as a race. If they want to really nerf ifnestors, they need to buff zerg elsewhere to keep it viable, but they aren't doing that. They nerfed fungal with no compensation, but that was fine because it wasn't a huge nerf. But now they are doing a huge nerf, and still no compensation. The overseer buff while nice still in no way helps the actual Z army. And while the ultra buff is better than nothing, it still doesn't help the actual zerg army because honeslty, ultras are still useless and will die before getting to their targets, even if they are fungald. you listen to idra a bit too much usually if you think what someone said is wrong you try to point out why, instead of attempting to insult them. I'm just saying you're literally not even giving your opinion but someone elses zerg is going to be just fine with this nerf no that is my opinion, I haven't seen a statement from idra about it.
ok well Z is viable even if you can't neural colossus/archon/mothership
fungal + baneling drops does wonder
what blizzard is trying to prevent I believe are the players that are using 20 infestors to defend/harass/counter every army composition the protoss can come up with
it is meant to be a support unit like other spellcasters, you never see someone make 15 ghosts off 2 base, or 15 high templars off 2 base.....
|
As an NA/M Terran who routinely uses Thor/Banshee against zerg, all I can say regarding the Neural Parasite change is.....
HAAAAAAAAALLELUJAH!!!!
All the same though, it really makes me wonder what good NP will be if it cannot be used on massive units. Those were the only ones worth parasiting. If it were up to me (and I were being fair) this change would not go through.
|
I think the NP nerf is good because massive units should not be affected by things like slow, stun, mind control etc.
|
If Blizzard wants to buff Toss lategame vs. Zerg, why not make NP stop applying to hero units? Since there's only one, it'd essentially mean "you can't NP Motherships." Which, considering the Mothership's extreme cost in resources, tech, buildtime and even energy, the fact that only one can be built, and the tremendous swinginess it can introduce into a battle, seems fair. Having a Mothership vs. Zerg is so risky because an NP at the wrong time will singlehandedly lose you the game which ends up making it a tremendous liability, which doesn't feel right. Its fine that it costs a shitload, but if you build one, it shouldn't make you more likely to lose.
But Colossi and Thors? They should be able to be targetted by NP. Neither of them feels underpowered in any way vs. Z.
|
On September 10 2011 09:28 Protosnake wrote:Never, the point was that in Starcraft 2, the best player does not always win, this apply for every race. Like i said, this nerf will reward bad, blind play, i dont see how more "unpredictable" this will make the game, colossus will just mass colossus every game (Even if they never really stopped to do it) and zerg will mass corrupteur, end of story.
so morrow in your opinion is THAT much better than puzzle?
|
On September 10 2011 09:05 Ihpares wrote:
BUT, Colossi do relegate entire techs nonviable, just as Reavers did
You should tell that to upmagic
|
On September 10 2011 09:29 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 09:27 hunts wrote:On September 10 2011 09:25 ReignFayth wrote:On September 10 2011 09:24 hunts wrote:On September 10 2011 09:21 ReignFayth wrote:On September 10 2011 09:12 hunts wrote:
neural change is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen from blizzard yet. Yeah infstor is a bit too good of a unit as is, but it's basicly the only thing actually keeping Z viable as a race. If they want to really nerf ifnestors, they need to buff zerg elsewhere to keep it viable, but they aren't doing that. They nerfed fungal with no compensation, but that was fine because it wasn't a huge nerf. But now they are doing a huge nerf, and still no compensation. The overseer buff while nice still in no way helps the actual Z army. And while the ultra buff is better than nothing, it still doesn't help the actual zerg army because honeslty, ultras are still useless and will die before getting to their targets, even if they are fungald. you listen to idra a bit too much usually if you think what someone said is wrong you try to point out why, instead of attempting to insult them. I'm just saying you're literally not even giving your opinion but someone elses zerg is going to be just fine with this nerf no that is my opinion, I haven't seen a statement from idra about it. ok well Z is viable even if you can't neural colossus/archon/mothership fungal + baneling drops does wonder what blizzard is trying to prevent I believe are the players that are using 20 infestors to defend/harass/counter every army composition the protoss can come up with it is meant to be a support unit like other spellcasters, you never see someone make 15 ghosts off 2 base, or 15 high templars off 2 base.....
Honestly though I'm more worried about dealing with T mech than P, wit hthe neural change.
|
On September 10 2011 09:23 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 09:15 how2TL wrote:On September 10 2011 04:26 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 04:20 how2TL wrote:On September 10 2011 04:19 Rorschach wrote:On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. quoted for truth... i really thought the days of zerg whine were behind us..... I guess they should nerf Cannon Rushes then. because people are winning tournaments with them? Neural Parasite isn't winning tournaments either. If Infestors got Destiny into Grand Masters, then cannon rushes got Deezer/CombatEX there. Therefore if you think the truth is that Infestors are overpowered, so are cannon rushes, based on you agreeing with the other guy's logic. deezer almost never cannon rush...
And Destiny was in the top 200 lists before GM existed/Before the Infestor buff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
