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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 353

Forum Index > Closed
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
GTLAllDayEveryDay
Profile Joined September 2011
39 Posts
September 09 2011 22:51 GMT
#7041
As the best Protoss in North America, I agree completely with the Neural Parasite nerf -- but it's still not enough. Infested Terrans should cost 50 energy, and should get a +5 HP buff. It's unfair that in low econ situations, infestors win because you're basically trading energy for resources. Lastly, there should be an model change for the Overlord when it's carrying cargo.

ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
September 09 2011 22:51 GMT
#7042
I think this NP change was much needed. I think the blueflame nerf was fine except they should now reduce the upgrade to 100/100 to compensate for the loss. I wish blizzard would make nitro packs T1 again tho >< i don't think it would break the early game much at all.
TL+ Member
Loodah
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
335 Posts
September 09 2011 22:54 GMT
#7043
Why is it that zergs say they barely even used neural parasite and then they go crazy when it's nerfed?
cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
September 09 2011 22:54 GMT
#7044
I don't understand why the Hydra hasn't been changed yet. No one builds these units anymore and it's just pathetic to see everything get nerfed/buffed while the Hydra has been sitting in its corner for ages.

NP change is gonna be pretty bad for Zerg in ZvP. Just means huge colossus armies need to revert back to corruptors or an overwhelming amount of roaches. It's nearly impossible to kill a colossus based army with ling infestor without NP unless you just have an overwhelming amount of units.

It's just a bit much when you think about it. P and T have anti caster abilities (emp and feedback) but since NP can be "too difficult" to deal with, they want to nerf it because people can't EMP/Feedback infestors fast enough? What about cloaked ghosts just wakling 2 inches within a protoss army and just EMPing everything into insta gg? Ghost being 100 gas is a complete joke.
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
hooberschmit
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada101 Posts
September 09 2011 22:56 GMT
#7045
On September 10 2011 07:01 mFour wrote:
Either way I should stop discussing Corrupters for they are not in the patch notes and I didn't mean to start any arguments. So before anybody starts getting too intense about Corrupters..HOW BOUT DEM SEEKER MISSLES?

people are talking about the viablility of corrupters due to the latest patch note, as if it stays in you won't be able to neural colosi.
"I gotta do some vacuuming really fast WSHHHHHH" - Day[9]
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
September 09 2011 22:56 GMT
#7046
sooo, what's the point in researching NP now? i really, really hope this one doesn't make it through. such a heavy-handed balance change. it's not even an issue of them nerfing zerg - as a zerg player i'm behind the fungal change, and i don't mind them adjusting the numbers here and there if they think they need to try toning something down. but this is pretty much equivalent to removing neural parasite altogether, one of the only interesting and truly powerful things zerg can do besides just macro macro macro trade army macro macro macro.
payed off security
GTLAllDayEveryDay
Profile Joined September 2011
39 Posts
September 09 2011 23:01 GMT
#7047
On September 10 2011 07:54 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
I don't understand why the Hydra hasn't been changed yet. No one builds these units anymore and it's just pathetic to see everything get nerfed/buffed while the Hydra has been sitting in its corner for ages.

NP change is gonna be pretty bad for Zerg in ZvP. Just means huge colossus armies need to revert back to corruptors or an overwhelming amount of roaches. It's nearly impossible to kill a colossus based army with ling infestor without NP unless you just have an overwhelming amount of units.

It's just a bit much when you think about it. P and T have anti caster abilities (emp and feedback) but since NP can be "too difficult" to deal with, they want to nerf it because people can't EMP/Feedback infestors fast enough? What about cloaked ghosts just wakling 2 inches within a protoss army and just EMPing everything into insta gg? Ghost being 100 gas is a complete joke.


I couldn't disagree more. Hydras are very situational. Every race has a situational unit -- reaper, immortal, battlecruiser, carrier, zealot, etc... Hydras serve their purpose well, not every unit needs utility in the current metagame. Neural parasite was overpowered because at any instant , a 200 vs 200 food army can easily become a 250 vs 150 food army. With the speed of templar compared to the speed of the rest of the protoss army, there's an extremely diffuclt juggling act when decided how far to move one with respect to the other. Move tempalrs in too early and youg et sniped by roaches, move them int too late and you get your colossus NPd and feedback becomes useless on infestors since they already used their energy. Ghosts require much more careful control than any zerg unit. I think ghost only need a TvP nerf -- something like with each shield upgrade, EMP deals 10->20->35% less damage.
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
September 09 2011 23:03 GMT
#7048
Welp, it looks like this matters been pretty talked/flamed/trolled to death now. The pros have even said their thoughts on it.. and now I suppose all that's left is for us to actually go on the PTR and test it!

Try to remember guys, that no matter what we say or do here, or on b.net, or on reddit, all that matters to blizz is what they see come from that PTR. So we all need to go there, play the games, feel the burn, and show em how shit is with this change, be it balanced, unbalanced, or just wtfdumb like 70% of us are assuming.

To the PTR, imo!!!
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 23:07:36
September 09 2011 23:06 GMT
#7049
On September 10 2011 08:01 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. Hydras are very situational. Every race has a situational unit -- reaper, immortal, battlecruiser, carrier, zealot, etc...


Just out of curiosity, what situation warrants building more than one reaper?
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
sagefreke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States241 Posts
September 09 2011 23:08 GMT
#7050
If we assume the Infestor changes on the PTR go through and we compare it to the Infestor at launch (not beta), we see that the current Infestor:

•Moves .25 slower than infestors at launch
•Has a snare that is 4 seconds less than the old fungal growth
•Deals 6 less damage to all units except armored which deals +4 damage compared to the fungal growth at launch
•Cant neural parasite massive units as opposed to neural parasite at launch which could control all units except for Ultralisks

Taking all these into account you can actually argue that the current Infestor is WORSE than the Infestor at launch. This is odd because if you looked back before the fungal growth buff a few patches ago, Zerg players were getting absolutely mauled by Protoss deathballs. ZvP consisted of going roach/hydra/corruptor while trying to find the balance mid/late game about how many corruptors they should produce. Build too many corruptors and youre ground army got destroyed by gateway units while having too much supply in useless air units solely meant to counter one unit. Build too few corruptors and you won't be able to kill enough colossi before they melt your ground army.

What the fungal change did was make it easier for Zerg to deal with marine siege tank pushes late game and made it so that Zerg could deal with heavy sentries. Also neural parasite was good for dealing with Thors and small amounts of Colossus.

I find it odd that Blizzard actually states on the loading screen to use Neural Parasite on units like the Colossus and has now decided to remove that option. I also find it odd that they're actually considering nerfing a unit in 2 areas in ONE patch. Personally I feel that is overkill and may end up making the Infestor a niche unit useful only in very specific situations. Im fairly confident that only one of the Infestor changes will make it through, preferably the fungal growth change.

yo yo yo
SayHello
Profile Joined December 2010
Czech Republic147 Posts
September 09 2011 23:09 GMT
#7051
On September 10 2011 08:06 mishimaBeef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 08:01 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. Hydras are very situational. Every race has a situational unit -- reaper, immortal, battlecruiser, carrier, zealot, etc...


Just out of curiosity, what situation warrants building more than one reaper?


Watch qxc's tvp and his late game reaper harass?
boblzer0
Profile Joined May 2010
84 Posts
September 09 2011 23:10 GMT
#7052
toss thinks np is op because 1 out of 5 games they play someone is able to use it effectively and they lose. clearnly a tactic that beats you is imba. ff however is perfectly balanced vs zerg. gtfo

User was temp banned for this post.
Philip2110
Profile Joined April 2010
Scotland798 Posts
September 09 2011 23:10 GMT
#7053
On September 10 2011 08:08 sagefreke wrote:
•Deals 6 less damage to all units except armored which deals +4 damage compared to the fungal growth at launch


Double the dps, yes the total damage is the same but the dps isnt and thats what matters
Master Sc2 - Diamond LoL - Eu W
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
September 09 2011 23:11 GMT
#7054
On September 10 2011 08:10 boblzer0 wrote:
toss thinks np is op because 1 out of 5 games they play someone is able to use it effectively and they lose. clearnly a tactic that beats you is imba. ff however is perfectly balanced vs zerg. gtfo

how is clicking on a unit defined as a tactic? and lmfao, toss without ffs would be fucking demolished by zerg, and i won't even take you seriously if you try to argue against that.
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
September 09 2011 23:18 GMT
#7055
Everyone needs to stop discussing this at this point and go play the PTR for a bit. Then post their feedback from their experiences on the PTR with these changes on the blizz PTR forums, so blizzard actually gets the feedback needed to know if this change should be kept or not.

just sayin.
Staboteur
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada1873 Posts
September 09 2011 23:23 GMT
#7056
COLOSSSUSSSSSSSSSSSSSS D:

To be a billion percent fair, my control was far too shitty for me to ever actually successfully neural parasite a bunch of colossus without just losing all my shit, but I liked to think I at least had the option. Also, this (if it goes through) is likely to shift the metagame back to MOAR COLOSSUS at my level, which sucks total nuts. Well, back to sub-40% win vs protoss again, I guess!

This patch will suck for me, because tall things that shoot lasers out of their eyes fucking burn holes in my sphincter every time, but overall it'll be interesting to see how these potential changes (lol @ NP + immortal range buff) change ZvP. ZvP is clearly now in a bad place for Protoss (I mean, even -I- am above 50% wins!) and it'll be neat to see the matchup come back to a more watchable, less irritating state... assuming you like things that shoot lasers, of course.
I'm actually Fleetfeet D:
Lomak
Profile Joined June 2010
United States311 Posts
September 09 2011 23:23 GMT
#7057
At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I don't see PTR helping at all. The NA scene has very few players that are playing the game at the level needed to determine the strength of units / comps / builds. Then you jump over to the EU and realize that there's like 2 zergs that are playing the game on a professional level (Dimaga , Morrow) and morrow has not been performing as well as we would expect.

That's assuming the top level players even get on that PTR to show the developers what the changes REALLY do. Which is a stretch in and of itself.
Some see the glass half full, others half empty. I think the glass is just too big.
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
September 09 2011 23:25 GMT
#7058
every protoss on europe gets demolished by stephano currently, and he abuses infestor like destiny, except his mechanic is probably much better
Lomak
Profile Joined June 2010
United States311 Posts
September 09 2011 23:27 GMT
#7059
I would like to see some replays or vod's of his if there are any available. I've never heard of him (ignorant american) but I would enjoy watching some matches of his ZvP that include the infestor.
Some see the glass half full, others half empty. I think the glass is just too big.
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 23:31:20
September 09 2011 23:29 GMT
#7060
Relax guys, there is no way in hell that the NP change will be included in the patch without some other changes to compensate, it would completely destroy Zergs ability to deal with death ball armies, and Zerg would instantly be worse than it was before the infestor buff. I think everybody agree's that the hydra and the corrupter ought to fill the roles that currently only the infester is able to handle. I don't mind an infestor nerf, and in fact I would prefer it so long as they made the hydra and corrupter units that actually did what they were supposed to do.
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