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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 352

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
PPTouch
Profile Joined January 2011
99 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 22:12:16
September 09 2011 22:11 GMT
#7021
On September 10 2011 06:48 Belial88 wrote:

You never see mass infestor, you see them as support, just 10-12 of them.


jeez guys its only 10-12 infestors with another 4 running around burrowed throwing up mass IT raping expos

comeon 1000-1300 mineral and 1500-1800 gas isnt THAT much
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
September 09 2011 22:16 GMT
#7022
On September 10 2011 06:29 Lomak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 06:24 Raid wrote:
On September 10 2011 06:03 Lomak wrote:
I just don't understand how all the drastic changes are happening to the mediocre races. Yet terrans get 5 seconds here or 5 seconds there, all these small adjustments when they are arguably the best performing race in sc2 by FAR. Just pisses me off.



Dude have you ever seen the terran history of nerfs. Being ignorant to your own race and saying terrans are the least nerfed race is just plain stupid. About every unit in the terran army has been nerfed since launch. If you don't believe me read the patch notes.


Yea it HAS been nerfed since launch and for good reason , but they are never overly severe nerfs.

Remember when infested terran was TAKEN OUT of the game and they gave infestors frenzy????

Those are the kind of changes they do to zerg.

*5 seconds added to bunker build time* are the kind of changes they give to terran, and yea it's bullshit.


I dunno dude the reaper was nerfed to crap pretty badly. Pretty much a unit that has no real purpose anymore except for maybe tvt scouting. It had that extra 5 second thing, the depot before rax, the speed on factory... Medivacs use to be much faster as well. Its not just timing windows blizzard has been nerfing. I don't blame you bunker changes were in almost every patch but probably 1 if thats what you mean by 5 second changes. I don't see what you want to nerf terran more I'm fine if they revert the price from 200/100 ghost back to 150/150 though its not that big a deal imo.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
September 09 2011 22:18 GMT
#7023
On September 10 2011 06:49 Havefa1th wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 06:44 mFour wrote:
On September 10 2011 06:34 Lomak wrote:
Comparing corrupter to viking.

1. Corrupters cost more
2. Do less damage (even with their ability used, requiring more APM)
3. Less range
4. When there is nothing to attack in the air, they become nothing but a food block.

They are worse on every point.

1. 25 more gas I believe? Correct.
2. Don't know the exact DPS of each, but this is only because Vikings take 2 shots instead of 1 for each hit. Corrupters have a faster attack speed though.
3. Yupp.
4. They are an anti-air/support unit, of course, but as a food block, why don't you just morph to BL's after taking care of the Colossi?

Also, you forgot to mention their 75 more HP and +2 starting armor over the Viking. I don't think they are perfect, but definitely not as bad as you think they are.

Brood Lords are the THE most expensive unit to tech to. With roaches, hydras, corruptors and tech, what makes you think that Zerg players automatically have a greater spire and the necessary resources to make brood lords? Using BLs to excuse corruptors lack of versatility is poor shit.

Vikings are better than Corruptors in EVERY single way.


I agree, nerf vikings.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Lomak
Profile Joined June 2010
United States311 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 22:19:16
September 09 2011 22:18 GMT
#7024
On September 10 2011 07:11 PPTouch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 06:48 Belial88 wrote:

You never see mass infestor, you see them as support, just 10-12 of them.


jeez guys its only 10-12 infestors with another 4 running around burrowed throwing up mass IT raping expos

comeon 1000-1300 mineral and 1500-1800 gas isnt THAT much


If your opponent is spending 1800 gas on a specific unit + more on its upgrades (burrow , pathogen glands, NP) and you don't see where those resources are going then why is it a problem when you lose.

Part of the game is identifying what your opponent is doing and responding to it. Do we play a game where 1 race can spend thousands of resources on a specific unit comp and the opponent can just ignore that and 'do their own thing'? There SHOULD be a consequence to ignoring it.
Some see the glass half full, others half empty. I think the glass is just too big.
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
September 09 2011 22:18 GMT
#7025
Marauder Concussive Shells shouldn't be 50/50, instead it should be 100/100.

It's way too good to be that cheap IMO, especially since it forces a 200/200 Charge upgrade to counter it.
Lomak
Profile Joined June 2010
United States311 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 22:23:46
September 09 2011 22:20 GMT
#7026
On September 10 2011 07:16 Raid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 06:29 Lomak wrote:
On September 10 2011 06:24 Raid wrote:
On September 10 2011 06:03 Lomak wrote:
I just don't understand how all the drastic changes are happening to the mediocre races. Yet terrans get 5 seconds here or 5 seconds there, all these small adjustments when they are arguably the best performing race in sc2 by FAR. Just pisses me off.



Dude have you ever seen the terran history of nerfs. Being ignorant to your own race and saying terrans are the least nerfed race is just plain stupid. About every unit in the terran army has been nerfed since launch. If you don't believe me read the patch notes.


Yea it HAS been nerfed since launch and for good reason , but they are never overly severe nerfs.

Remember when infested terran was TAKEN OUT of the game and they gave infestors frenzy????

Those are the kind of changes they do to zerg.

*5 seconds added to bunker build time* are the kind of changes they give to terran, and yea it's bullshit.


I dunno dude the reaper was nerfed to crap pretty badly. Pretty much a unit that has no real purpose anymore except for maybe tvt scouting. It had that extra 5 second thing, the depot before rax, the speed on factory... Medivacs use to be much faster as well. Its not just timing windows blizzard has been nerfing. I don't blame you bunker changes were in almost every patch but probably 1 if thats what you mean by 5 second changes. I don't see what you want to nerf terran more I'm fine if they revert the price from 200/100 ghost back to 150/150 though its not that big a deal imo.


The reaper was nerfed because blizzard realize there was absolutely nothing zerg units could do to defend against them.

Reapers were kiting and killing roaches and queens for fucks sakes, of course that should change. We don't see anything near that sort of domination with infestors on the professional level.

For the record I couldn't really care if they nerf terran / toss. What I really want from blizzard is a good hard look at all the zerg units / structures to evaluate just how shitty they are.

Hydra, Nydus (expensive version of a pylon). Our upgrades, Overlord speed, our scouting capabilities. Blizzard really needs a good hard look at zerg because the race IMO is just pathetic. If only because of how stagnant and predictable it is. There is no versatility in a race that has so few units, and even fewer units that are worth a shit.
Some see the glass half full, others half empty. I think the glass is just too big.
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
September 09 2011 22:21 GMT
#7027
On September 10 2011 06:56 Bashion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 06:51 SonicTitan wrote:
On September 10 2011 06:00 ma70 wrote:
On September 10 2011 05:58 SonicTitan wrote:
Considering I'm a low-level scrub, I'm going to check my first "wtf" response to the NP change. The reasons against the change have already been articulated enough, as well as reasons for it. I'll only ask - has Blizzard themselves released any justification for the change? NP WAS a viable strategy against both Thor and Collosus, and especially with Collosus, no other unit composition could really match the power of NP. The change is worrisome, is all, and as far as I can see it was never asked for or talked about.

So once again, has Blizzard said anything about it?


Maybe they did the NP change because if NP units get the upgrades (which did not occur last patch) then they will be THAT much stronger against your own army. I mean, it's not perfect, but at least the units you "steal" from them (should you use NP) will be stronger....but anyways, you can always just not research it and use Fungal (which is powerful in its own right) and Infested Terrans.


See, that's not what I asked. Because right now, we have a lot of uninformed opinions in this thread, including mine, and most likely yours. What I asked is, has Blizzard said anything about why they are making the change? Because I want to hear their justification. True, Blizzard's justifications have sometimes seemed nonsensical, but on some level this seems like a nonsensical change in itself. At the very least a completely unexpected one.



I agree with you.

I havent seen any pro player blaming NP as the main reason why infestors are too good.



FWIW nearly every good NA toss I talk to complains about NP being imba.

I'm not entirely sure that PvZ or PvT are imbalanced, but they definitely feel difficult currently, and would require revolutionary insight to be balanced.
www.infinityseven.net
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
September 09 2011 22:27 GMT
#7028
i cant believe they are forcing gameplay down the tubes and setting back the meta game 6 months. I guess they really just want people to build an army and A move into each other, timing, positioning, terrain be damned just fight!

zvp was complete shit when all you could do was roach/hydra/corrupter. they're dumbing down matchups and gameplay before races can even begin to think about ways to counter/approach new builds. BW had ridiculously OP shit and it was wonderful because all the races were broken to a degree it lead to insane mechanics and micro.

It's funny players like HuK and Alicia don't die to this (see alicia's games last night vs dimaga). Everyone cries they want the game to be more micro/mechanically and skillful but then cry and the exact gameplay mechanics that make it that way because its 'too hard to deal with.'

this dumbed down retard direction sc2 is going and this is the exact reason I lose interest every week. It's not even about zerg being nerfed, it's why they nerf and what they nerf. Come the fuck on if you're losing to your collossi being stolen you aren't controlling your army well, didn't make an appropriate composition or were outplayed.

http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Loodah
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
335 Posts
September 09 2011 22:29 GMT
#7029
On September 09 2011 16:51 zul wrote:
Blizzard starts to sing a song: "they see me trolling, they`re hatin ..." If neural stays this way, I would like to hear how zerg is supposed to take a fight vs. mass collosus(4 or more), or a terran mech army with thors in the front. I still dont know where the problem with infestor in general is. He still has energy and therefore can be feedbacked and EMPed.


Corruptors... just like they used to and their win percentage was still balanced against toss.....
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
September 09 2011 22:29 GMT
#7030
And the thread has gone to crap again.

Jeez guys, play the freaking game instead of theorycrafting how ¨I won´t be able to do anything against X or Y¨
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
bendez
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada283 Posts
September 09 2011 22:30 GMT
#7031
On September 10 2011 07:27 crms wrote:
i cant believe they are forcing gameplay down the tubes and setting back the meta game 6 months. I guess they really just want people to build an army and A move into each other, timing, positioning, terrain be damned just fight!

zvp was complete shit when all you could do was roach/hydra/corrupter. they're dumbing down matchups and gameplay before races can even begin to think about ways to counter/approach new builds. BW had ridiculously OP shit and it was wonderful because all the races were broken to a degree it lead to insane mechanics and micro.

It's funny players like HuK and Alicia don't die to this (see alicia's games last night vs dimaga). Everyone cries they want the game to be more micro/mechanically and skillful but then cry and the exact gameplay mechanics that make it that way because its 'too hard to deal with.'

this dumbed down retard direction sc2 is going and this is the exact reason I lose interest every week. It's not even about zerg being nerfed, it's why they nerf and what they nerf. Come the fuck on if you're losing to your collossi being stolen you aren't controlling your army well, didn't make an appropriate composition or were outplayed.



Couldn't agree more with you. Well said.
Loodah
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
335 Posts
September 09 2011 22:31 GMT
#7032
On September 10 2011 07:27 crms wrote:
i cant believe they are forcing gameplay down the tubes and setting back the meta game 6 months. I guess they really just want people to build an army and A move into each other, timing, positioning, terrain be damned just fight!

zvp was complete shit when all you could do was roach/hydra/corrupter. they're dumbing down matchups and gameplay before races can even begin to think about ways to counter/approach new builds. BW had ridiculously OP shit and it was wonderful because all the races were broken to a degree it lead to insane mechanics and micro.

It's funny players like HuK and Alicia don't die to this (see alicia's games last night vs dimaga). Everyone cries they want the game to be more micro/mechanically and skillful but then cry and the exact gameplay mechanics that make it that way because its 'too hard to deal with.'

this dumbed down retard direction sc2 is going and this is the exact reason I lose interest every week. It's not even about zerg being nerfed, it's why they nerf and what they nerf. Come the fuck on if you're losing to your collossi being stolen you aren't controlling your army well, didn't make an appropriate composition or were outplayed.



This argument is idiotic. "If you're losing as protoss to NP then you're doing something wrong" -- what about "If you're losing as zerg to colossus then you're doing something wrong" - You have corruptors... that also turn into the highest dps units in the game basically
Lomak
Profile Joined June 2010
United States311 Posts
September 09 2011 22:32 GMT
#7033
On September 10 2011 07:31 Loodah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 07:27 crms wrote:
i cant believe they are forcing gameplay down the tubes and setting back the meta game 6 months. I guess they really just want people to build an army and A move into each other, timing, positioning, terrain be damned just fight!

zvp was complete shit when all you could do was roach/hydra/corrupter. they're dumbing down matchups and gameplay before races can even begin to think about ways to counter/approach new builds. BW had ridiculously OP shit and it was wonderful because all the races were broken to a degree it lead to insane mechanics and micro.

It's funny players like HuK and Alicia don't die to this (see alicia's games last night vs dimaga). Everyone cries they want the game to be more micro/mechanically and skillful but then cry and the exact gameplay mechanics that make it that way because its 'too hard to deal with.'

this dumbed down retard direction sc2 is going and this is the exact reason I lose interest every week. It's not even about zerg being nerfed, it's why they nerf and what they nerf. Come the fuck on if you're losing to your collossi being stolen you aren't controlling your army well, didn't make an appropriate composition or were outplayed.



This argument is idiotic. "If you're losing as protoss to NP then you're doing something wrong" -- what about "If you're losing as zerg to colossus then you're doing something wrong" - You have corruptors... that also turn into the highest dps units in the game basically


I didnt realize I could turn my corrupters into marines. They might be worth making if that was the case.
Some see the glass half full, others half empty. I think the glass is just too big.
CaptainHaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States240 Posts
September 09 2011 22:33 GMT
#7034
On September 10 2011 07:21 iSTime wrote:
FWIW nearly every good NA toss I talk to complains about NP being imba.

I'm not entirely sure that PvZ or PvT are imbalanced, but they definitely feel difficult currently, and would require revolutionary insight to be balanced.

I'm not sure, pvz and pvt might feel difficult, but that doesn't necessarily mean they need a revolutionary look. Maybe a few more allins. >.>
All of us warned you of the big white face.
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 22:46:23
September 09 2011 22:34 GMT
#7035
On September 10 2011 07:10 PPTouch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 06:48 Belial88 wrote:
On September 10 2011 06:20 RavenLoud wrote:
Lol.

Infestors take twice as long as templars, by taking the time to research Pathogen Glands into account.

Zerg QQ to a whole new level.


Why don't we just go play on the PTR instead of theorycrafting with our very limited game knowledge (and probably realize how ignorant we are now later on.)



You never see mass infestor, you see them as support, just 10-12 of them.


jeez guys its only 10-12 infestors with another 4 running around burrowed throwing up mass IT raping expos

comeon 1000-1300 mineral and 1500-1800 gas isnt THAT much


It's not uncommon to see that many stalkers or marines, other very versatile units.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Treble557
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 22:47:18
September 09 2011 22:45 GMT
#7036


jeez guys its only 10-12 infestors with another 4 running around burrowed throwing up mass IT raping expos

comeon 1000-1300 mineral and 1500-1800 gas isnt THAT much




I'd bet money on the fact that if toss spent that much in HT's for their deathballs VS terran and spread the HT's out, then the terran wouldn't have enough ghosts to stop them since the terran wouldn't know how HT heavy they're really going.

You might have less fluffer units, but you'll have enough non-stop psy storms to just roll shit.
twitch772
Profile Joined May 2010
United States17 Posts
September 09 2011 22:46 GMT
#7037
patch 1.5

removed zerg from sc2.
UmiNotsuki
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States633 Posts
September 09 2011 22:48 GMT
#7038
The neural change makes me cry D: Alongside things like seeker missile, tactical nukes and nydus worms, neural parasite always struck me as something really wonderful that no one's quite figured out how to use yet. They demonstrate potential and make the game's evolution a lot of fun to watch. And I was excited because finally neural parasite was starting to see some real use, it was being included in the metagame and it was fun to watch.

With very, very few valid targets left after this patch, I doubt it'll be seen in even one one hundredth of the games we were starting to see it in recently. I wanna give it a hug because it's just so lonely
UmiNotsuki.111 (NA), UNTReborn.932 (EU), UmiNotsuki (iCCup) -- You see that text I wrote above this? I'll betcha $5 that you disagree :D
hooberschmit
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada101 Posts
September 09 2011 22:49 GMT
#7039
i am really excited about mech build with more thors in tvz.
"I gotta do some vacuuming really fast WSHHHHHH" - Day[9]
Sprouter
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1724 Posts
September 09 2011 22:50 GMT
#7040
blizz should bring back amulet instead of nerfing np ^^
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