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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Swad1000
United States366 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:30 Bowzer wrote: Upgraded stalkers destroy ultras unless they are dumb enough to not blink. You can not blink after the zerg uses fungal. Ling/Ultra/Infestor destroys stalkers. | ||
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Bowzer
Canada214 Posts
Go try ultras against a stalker heavy army and tell me how it goes. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:28 Roblin wrote: intereting infestor nerf, I have thought about it before and interestingly enough, mass queens suddenly become way more viable when coupled with broodlords. it would be awesome if the Z lategame became broodlord/queen with a few infestors and ling support IT HAS NO COUNTER! (other than cloaked units, doh! lets add one or two of these (now cheaper) overseers!) Your Ling infestor Broodlord Queen against my Ghost Tank Thorlions + Vikings =P It would be an epic battle, (I'll have to see if I can get the right EMPs in, and then attempt to snipe the Brood Lords) | ||
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:28 NineteenSC2 wrote: The marine alone can't counter every single unit. Edit: And infestors don't counter ht or ghosts. Yeah the "tier 1" unit only counters all but 1-2 units. With good enough micro and spreading marines counter quite a lot, as shown by gsl terrans. | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:26 Shade_CsT wrote: Before this change, how many whine did you read about Neural Parasite ? Not so many I would guess... It's all about Meta games, and we start seeing very nice things from Protoss/Terran players to deal with Infestor.... I would also remind you that the Fungal Growth was buffed to deal with Protoss deathball (source : 1.3 situation report from David Kim), if the NP change goes live, the Protoss deathball will be unbeatable once again. The change is stupid, it's like removing the spell; I'm sure there are so many changes that would work perfectly. Or zerg is forced to be creative with it? Use it on immortals and target the colossi/stalkers? Also, if fungal was buffed to deal with the death ball and after this patch, still kills protoss units just as fast, how is the deathball unbeatable? Did they remove fungal as well? | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:29 Shade_CsT wrote: You may be right, but wouldn't be smart to buff Hydralisk (the other Tier 2 alternative unit) in addition to the infestor nerf ... ? The change can't go live without compensation. "At the same time, Blizzard is trying to get more people to use carriers and motherships, and this change will allow toss players more opportunities for unit diversity as well. It's not like they are leaving zergs high and dry either. The buff to ultras, which are very good vs stalker/colo, and making overseers cheap so you don't need to use mass fungals to detect cloaked units anymore are there to balance this out." this was the second part of my post, why would you quote only half of it and then ask a question that I answer in the other half? | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6518 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:26 Shade_CsT wrote: Before this change, how many whine did you read about Neural Parasite ? Not so many I would guess... It's all about Meta games, and we start seeing very nice things from Protoss/Terran players to deal with Infestor.... I would also remind you that the Fungal Growth was buffed to deal with Protoss deathball (source : 1.3 situation report from David Kim), if the NP change goes live, the Protoss deathball will be unbeatable once again. The change is stupid, it's like removing the spell; I'm sure there are so many changes that would work perfectly. how does this make the deathball unbeatable again? Fungal growth still destroys it! The change they made to stop the deathball is still in effect they nerfed a different skill... "It's like removing the spell" Sound a lot like when the amulet got nerfed on hts and toss cried out in rage, and yet look at the ht now used quite often! Give the change some time it can still be very effective, sniping immortals to destroy stalkers, you can still grab siege tanks in ZvT etc. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:27 Fig wrote: No one is arguing that this isn't a nerf, that is quite obvious. The point is that it was also quite obvious that infestors were much too versatile a unit. Unit diversity is important in SC2, and if a unit is so good that there is no reason to produce anything else, it hurts the game. Which is why they took away one aspect of it. Now there is more than one unit that it doesn't counter. At the same time, Blizzard is trying to get more people to use carriers and motherships, and this change will allow toss players more opportunities for unit diversity as well. It's not like they are leaving zergs high and dry either. The buff to ultras, which are very good vs stalker/colo, and making overseers cheap so you don't need to use mass fungals to detect cloaked units anymore are there to balance this out. Yes they are. This nerf directly buffs Colossi which were pretty weak against mass infestor play. So zergs will need to go back to Corruptor usage to stop Colossi balls. At least they should give corrupters +1 range so they can do their duty better. But even with this corrupters are a very boring units compared to infestors. Personally I don't have any will to play Zerg if this goes through. I don't want to use corruptors ever. I would rather quit sc2 and come back when the expansion is out (and probably quit watching sc2 with GOMTvT bullshit). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:27 Bowzer wrote: Alright, as soon as thermal lance gets removed, I'll stop. Lets get rid of zergling speed and you have a deal! | ||
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Rinnegan5
Netherlands319 Posts
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
Western Zergs just don't know how to play their race right, and abused the strongest to the max to overshadow their lack of understanding. The infestor is good against everything, if you have enough of them they murder everything basically on their own. You can't make anything wrong with massing them, they are always useful against everything in every situation. If this patch goes live, i suspect some zerg players falling face forward on the ground. | ||
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sm0b
United States157 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:27 Noocta wrote: You can't do that. You can't get BLs as fast as terran and protoss can get their T3. Your reasoning is wrong. You're telling me that zerg can't get any T3 units out before Terran is 200/200 in thors? You must not have read the whole post. Of course Terran can get Thors out before Zergs can get T3 but not 200/200, my post actually addressed that. | ||
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:33 Plansix wrote: Or zerg is forced to be creative with it? Use it on immortals and target the colossi/stalkers? Also, if fungal was buffed to deal with the death ball and after this patch, still kills protoss units just as fast, how is the deathball unbeatable? Did they remove fungal as well? Yeah hope that Protoss makes the unit that counters their army for you. But anyway, the real problem with the deathball was that zergs didn't have a way to kill void rays until the fungal buff. Now it'll take more fungals to kill voids but the deathball should still be manageable. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
The change at least needs to have a trade off. There needs to be a better way to deal with 6+ colossus because it really is such an anti-hype unit. Plus it will add more strategic depth for all levels of play. | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
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Shade_FR
France378 Posts
how does this make the deathball unbeatable again? Fungal growth still destroys it! The change they made to stop the deathball is still in effect they nerfed a different skill... On September 10 2011 02:33 Plansix wrote: Or zerg is forced to be creative with it? Use it on immortals and target the colossi/stalkers? Also, if fungal was buffed to deal with the death ball and after this patch, still kills protoss units just as fast, how is the deathball unbeatable? Did they remove fungal as well? Creative with it ? No :/. There won't be any immortal on the field for you to Neural Parasite. Because in a Protoss deathball, Colossi deals with the roaches (which is a joke to me, Colossus is supposed to be anti-light)/ Hydra, and Blink Stalkers deals with the rest. You may still kill some of the stalkers, but all the Colossi will destroy your entiere army. | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
Put it to 1:16. You'll get to hear destiny and catz and kyle discuss the NP change | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:35 sm0b wrote: You're telling me that zerg can't get any T3 units out before Terran is 200/200 in thors? You must not have read the whole post. Of course Terran can get Thors out before Zergs can get T3 but not 200/200, my post actually addressed that. Terran does not need 200/200 of Thors to do a timing attack against Zergs. Actually they have been doing that for months before Zergs figured out Neural is the best respose to this bullshit tactic. And TvZ was better for that. Watching marine/tank micro vs ling/bling/muta is much better then what we had before. | ||
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freewareplayer
Germany403 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:07 iamke55 wrote: Unlike Protoss, Zerg can actually make no gas units other than infestors and get away with it. Not to mention Zerg gets gifted 3 bases for free in every game. So the implied unit combination is infestor/ling here Zealots do good vs lings, so whats the problem? Mineral sink vs Mineral sink HT storm MELTS lings on top of that way more than fungal does to zealots, and what archons do to lings i dont even have to describe. | ||
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