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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Sabu113
United States11047 Posts
12 seconds is an eternity. All the time limit does is prevent sniping at certain units in the lategame. Interesting that Bliz is looking at PvZ again though mn tough to tell what they should do. Still think they'll come back to that spore change. Maybe neural is the right thing. It's tough. Some OPness is nice and good within reason. Do agree with the critiques that infestors are absurdly good spellcasters (but then so are ghosts relative to HTs.) | ||
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Shade_FR
France378 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:23 Plansix wrote: The counter agument would be that a lot of players have tried that and it hasn't worked very well. Still you will just say they were doing it wrong and the infestor is fine. So the end of the story is: You want your powerful unit to stay powerful. We think it is to powerful and want it to be scaled back it some way. No real starcraft player wants the easy win, I wish people would stopt throwing that around. Before this change, how many whine did you read about Neural Parasite ? Not so many I would guess... It's all about Meta games, and we start seeing very nice things from Protoss/Terran players to deal with Infestor.... I would also remind you that the Fungal Growth was buffed to deal with Protoss deathball (source : 1.3 situation report from David Kim), if the NP change goes live, the Protoss deathball will be unbeatable once again. The change is stupid, it's like removing the spell; I'm sure there are so many changes that would work perfectly. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:01 RedDragon571 wrote: That works until they have collosi or storm. really? you mean to tell me that two tier 3 toss units that are MEANT to counter hyrdas actually counter hydras (unlike immortals "countering" roaches)... You learn something new everyday... | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:24 RavenLoud wrote: Kneejerk comments like this do not help your argument nor does it show that you understand the game. Anyway, I think NP need a duration buff to offset this. If it last about 5-10 sec longer then this change could go through. I'd settle for that, I mean I wouldn't mind that it's unlimited channel even if my thors are safe | ||
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cOoLiD
Canada168 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:24 NineteenSC2 wrote: Zergs should let the change at least be implemented and see how it is. For now it seems like their ez win unit is taking a nerf so they're upset -_-'' I think instead of making nural not affect all massive units having the collosus have a passive ability that prevents mind control would be better no? Considering that seems to be the big problem zvp atm (at least in regards to nural) | ||
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NineteenSC2
Canada117 Posts
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:22 NineteenSC2 wrote: Except they dont counter every single unit. The infestor: Good for attacking Good for defending Good for harrassing Good against zealot, sentry, stalker, archons, immortals, carriers, voidrays, mothership, pheonix, observers, dts, collosi, probes and (debatable) high templars. So good in every situation and against every unit. The change is perfect. The infestor is a tier 2 unit, and blizzard is putting it where it belongs. while we're on the stupid subject of grading units by "tiers", so when is the marine getting a nerf? | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:09 sm0b wrote: Zerg will have to get T3 units to help deal with T3 units instead of staying on T2 units. Broodlords do really well against Thors with ground units to support them as do +5 armored ultras. I think roach infestor will still be the mid-game answer to mech in ZvT until Greater Spire or Ultra Den is out. Plus, this Ultra change should help too  You can't do that. You can't get BLs as fast as terran and protoss can get their T3. Your reasoning is wrong. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
The point is that it was also quite obvious that infestors were much too versatile a unit. Unit diversity is important in SC2, and if a unit is so good that there is no reason to produce anything else, it hurts the game. Which is why they took away one aspect of it. Now there is more than one unit that it doesn't counter. At the same time, Blizzard is trying to get more people to use carriers and motherships, and this change will allow toss players more opportunities for unit diversity as well. It's not like they are leaving zergs high and dry either. The buff to ultras, which are very good vs stalker/colo, and making overseers cheap so you don't need to use mass fungals to detect cloaked units anymore are there to balance this out. | ||
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Bowzer
Canada214 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:24 NineteenSC2 wrote: Zergs should let the change at least be implemented and see how it is. For now it seems like their ez win unit is taking a nerf so they're upset -_-'' Alright, as soon as thermal lance gets removed, I'll stop. | ||
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NineteenSC2
Canada117 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:27 fraktoasters wrote: while we're on the stupid subject of grading units by "tiers", so when is the marine getting a nerf? The marine alone can't counter every single unit. | ||
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
 . Atleast decrease dmg on fungal but removing our ability to NP collosi on massive like 2 base timing attacks seems strange. Guess back to bane bombs !EDIT: If you going to take away the ability to NP massive at least give us the ability to NP units permanently like in early beta :D | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
it would be awesome if the Z lategame became broodlord/queen with a few infestors and ling support IT HAS NO COUNTER! (other than cloaked units, doh! lets add one or two of these (now cheaper) overseers!) | ||
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Shade_FR
France378 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:27 Fig wrote: No one is arguing that this isn't a nerf, that is quite obvious. The point is that it was also quite obvious that infestors were much too versatile a unit. Unit diversity is important in SC2, and if a unit is so good that there is no reason to produce anything else, it hurts the game. Which is why they took away one aspect of it. Now there is more than one unit that it doesn't counter. You may be right, but wouldn't be smart to buff Hydralisk (the other Tier 2 alternative unit) in addition to the infestor nerf ... ? The change can't go live without compensation. | ||
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Bowzer
Canada214 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:27 Fig wrote: It's not like they are leaving zergs high and dry either. The buff to ultras, which are very good vs stalker/colo, and making overseers cheap so you don't need to use mass fungals to detect cloaked units anymore are there to balance this out. Upgraded stalkers destroy ultras unless they are dumb enough to not blink. | ||
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Mereel
Germany895 Posts
-add dark swarm problem solved | ||
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BrassMonkey
Canada84 Posts
Uh, what game are you playing? | ||
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Roxy
Canada753 Posts
Would much prefer to see a change in fungal growth from stun to slow and u can let me micro away from NP Also... mothership should not be NPable | ||
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tomtom2234
United States46 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:24 DFDream wrote: So for example on shakuras close by air you want me to have 5 bases, brood lords out, and enough infestors out to deal with 200/200 supply thors AND make copious amounts of units when he pushes out? Just to deal with it? If he's going for a 200/200 thor army on two bases, it's going to take him forever to get there, you should have a huge economy and all the tech you need. It takes a fuck ton of gas to build that big a thor army. If he pushes out sooner, he won't get to that 200/200 army period, either he'll win right there or lose right there. You crush the army when it moves out and you win. If he doesn't, you crush it with brood lords. Mass thor is a ridiculously stupid strat vs. zerg. You mix a few in for DPS and for killing mutas. | ||
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