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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 10 2011 02:06 TutsiRebel wrote:
So now we can Neural Parasite... ghosts and templar, and that's about it. The only reason to even upgrade NP before was to take care of thors / cattlebruisers or colossi / carriers (lol) / mothership (lol)
I'm actually fine with that, as Infestors are effective against just a few too many units. However, for ZvP, SOMETHING will have to change if zergs are gonna have an answer to colossi deathballs.
Hey blizzard, you guys gave the community the infestor nerfs most people wanted, is it time we can FINALLY see useful hydralisks yet?
baneling drops, compositions consisting of more than two units.
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On September 10 2011 02:05 DFDream wrote:
Just a thought but how are zergs supposed to deal with mass thor now?
Fungel only does 40 damage to them so it would take 10(13?) consecutive fungels to kill just a thor. Roaches melt to 200/200 thors so do mutas and in all honesty so do lings :S
Zerg will have to get T3 units to help deal with T3 units instead of staying on T2 units. Broodlords do really well against Thors with ground units to support them as do +5 armored ultras. I think roach infestor will still be the mid-game answer to mech in ZvT until Greater Spire or Ultra Den is out. Plus, this Ultra change should help too 
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On September 10 2011 02:06 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:03 Binabik wrote:On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon? Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership... As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore yeah cause fungal effects archons? wtf? Why wouldnt it?
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On September 10 2011 02:06 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:03 Binabik wrote:On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon? Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership... As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore yeah cause fungal effects archons? wtf?
Your stupid its not to kill them, its to stop them so you can focus the other shit. What idiot uses fungal to kill an archon? Its so you can stop them, put them in the back of the army, so you can deal with something such as chargelots.
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On September 10 2011 02:10 ContactKilla wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:06 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 10 2011 02:03 Binabik wrote:On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon? Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership... As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore yeah cause fungal effects archons? wtf? Your stupid its not to kill them, its to stop them so you can focus the other shit. What idiot uses fungal to kill an archon? Its so you can stop them, put them in the back of the army, so you can deal with something such as chargelots.
Why so hostile?
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On September 10 2011 02:10 ContactKilla wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:06 RedDragon571 wrote:On September 10 2011 02:03 Binabik wrote:On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon? Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership... As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore yeah cause fungal effects archons? wtf? Your stupid its not to kill them, its to stop them so you can focus the other shit. What idiot uses fungal to kill an archon? Its so you can stop them, put them in the back of the army, so you can deal with something such as chargelots.
zealots lose cost-for-cost to lings, just saying. roaches counter chargelot archon anyway so i'm not sure why you're worried, unless it's because you can't go ling/infestor against EVERYTHING and expect to win.
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People still fail to realize that infestors could counter every single unit in the protoss arsenal aside from high templars. I leave those out because it's debatable, however, if you get one good fungal on them they're useless.
How balanced does that seem?
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On September 10 2011 02:07 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:04 freewareplayer wrote:On September 10 2011 01:46 sOda~ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2011 01:44 freewareplayer wrote:
I honestly dont get how infestor can be a problem.
Scout Zerg going "mass infestor", make 1 Ht for each infestor ( which is already more than you would actually need to counter them, excessive example)
feedback all ( minimap targeting FTW, easy much?) you just already killed all infestors, and each templar has enough energy left for 2 ( 2?) storms, and you can warp archons after that.
Thats insanely cost effectice no? Why do protoss refuse to adapt after scouting?
Altho yes, right now fungal is a bit too strong. what do u use to scout? and where do u get all this gas for 10 hts where does the zerg get the gas for infestors? And i really dont feel like i need to tell you how to scout, i think u just dont want to..... Unlike Protoss, Zerg can actually make no gas units other than infestors and get away with it. Not to mention Zerg gets gifted 3 bases for free in every game.
None of this is true at all. If Protoss plays to beat Ling/Infestor with Zeal (fast weap upgrades) and HT, the Zerg HAS to make Roaches or they will lose.
There are also several timing attacks designed to kill a Zerg's third. Since when has the third ever been "free". It's just as "free" as Protoss' third base. You take your third when you have map control or when you've won an engagement. =/
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On September 10 2011 02:03 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:01 iPAndi wrote:On September 10 2011 01:54 envisioN . wrote:
The NP change is going the wrong way IMO. I play as terran and as long as you REACT to infestors by getting ghosts NP really isn't a problem. 2x Snipe or 1 EMP is insanely good vs infestors especially with cloak. I do feel that Fungal needed a nerf but NP really wasn't hurting anyone. Says the terran.. Try being protoss and gettign all ur expensive splash units neuraled :/ That happens to terrans too you realise? Tanks being neuralled is the most frustrating thing ever when it happens. 
Agree, but having ur expensive archons/collosus (100/300 and 300/200) units neuraled hurts more ur army (as opposed to siege tanks 150/125), plus its much more common for Z's to use neural on P armies than Z's using neural on T army since Siege tanks have 13 range, so its fuckin hard to get as close. Collosus have a range of 6(+3) :/
Infestors have a range of 14 btw
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW YEAH. If this change go through it will be so awesome
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On September 10 2011 02:12 Zuxo wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW YEAH. If this change go through it will be so awesome
To me, you look like
"LOOOOOOOL This nerf is stupid and I'm gonna freewin with Attack-move Colossi Deathballs or Heavy Mech army !!! "
You are not looking for game balance, you are looking for easy-win. It really shows how stupid this nerf is. It makes the game imbalanced (worst than the current state).
Good thing it won't go live (as it is in PTR)
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SoCal8907 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:11 arsenic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:07 iamke55 wrote:On September 10 2011 02:04 freewareplayer wrote:On September 10 2011 01:46 sOda~ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2011 01:44 freewareplayer wrote:
I honestly dont get how infestor can be a problem.
Scout Zerg going "mass infestor", make 1 Ht for each infestor ( which is already more than you would actually need to counter them, excessive example)
feedback all ( minimap targeting FTW, easy much?) you just already killed all infestors, and each templar has enough energy left for 2 ( 2?) storms, and you can warp archons after that.
Thats insanely cost effectice no? Why do protoss refuse to adapt after scouting?
Altho yes, right now fungal is a bit too strong. what do u use to scout? and where do u get all this gas for 10 hts where does the zerg get the gas for infestors? And i really dont feel like i need to tell you how to scout, i think u just dont want to..... Unlike Protoss, Zerg can actually make no gas units other than infestors and get away with it. Not to mention Zerg gets gifted 3 bases for free in every game. None of this is true at all. If Protoss plays to beat Ling/Infestor with Zeal (fast weap upgrades) and HT, the Zerg HAS to make Roaches or they will lose. There are also several timing attacks designed to kill a Zerg's third. Since when has the third ever been "free". It's just as "free" as Protoss' third base. You take your third when you have map control or when you've won an engagement. =/
not to mention archons are pretty darn good against lings.
but again, it all falls back to scouting. you can either let the zerg do what he wants or you can do something about it.
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On September 10 2011 02:07 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:05 DFDream wrote:
Just a thought but how are zergs supposed to deal with mass thor now?
Fungel only does 40 damage to them so it would take 10(13?) consecutive fungels to kill just a thor. Roaches melt to 200/200 thors so do mutas and in all honesty so do lings :S It's your fault for letting someone get 200/200 Thors
Well yeah I do agree; but at the moment if you get nural you can actually win against 2 base 200/200 thor pushes(which are very stupid but some people do, do them >_>.) But if this change goes through all terran has to do is sit behind 5 bunkers like 2 tanks and infinity thors until they hit 200/200 and win and zerg can't really break that.
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On September 10 2011 02:14 Shade_CsT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:12 Zuxo wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW YEAH. If this change go through it will be so awesome To me, you look like " LOOOOOOOL This nerf is stupid and I'm gonna freewin with Attack-move Colossi Deathballs or Heavy Mech army !!! " You are not looking for game balance, you are looking for easy-win. It really shows how stupid this nerf is. It makes the game imbalanced (worst than the current state).
So you think neural is balanced as is?
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On September 10 2011 02:01 immortlone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 01:59 Plansix wrote:On September 10 2011 01:44 freewareplayer wrote:
I honestly dont get how infestor can be a problem.
Scout Zerg going "mass infestor", make 1 Ht for each infestor ( which is already more than you would actually need to counter them, excessive example)
feedback all ( minimap targeting FTW, easy much?) you just already killed all infestors, and each templar has enough energy left for 2 ( 2?) storms, and you can warp archons after that.
Thats insanely cost effectice no? Why do protoss refuse to adapt after scouting?
Altho yes, right now fungal is a bit too strong. What crazy magic world are you living in where Protoss can just make 8 to 10 HTs and sit around waiting for them all to get 200 mana? Don't act like feedbacking infestors just happens and it's so easy it happens every time. Seriously, it's like people thing that an infestor dies every time an ht is warped in... if they have enough energy for a neural, thats actually true LOL. but to be fair, HTs are cheaper than infestors, feedback costs less than fungal or neural, and feedback does damage to the infestor on top of making it useless.
True, but HTs also do way less that the infestor, can't cloak, make ranged units with high DPS, are really slow and their main spell costs more that the building that allows you to build them.
The infestor and players shouldn't be able to just mass one caster to defend against everything. Ghosts need some nerf bat love too.
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On September 10 2011 02:15 immortlone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:11 arsenic wrote:On September 10 2011 02:07 iamke55 wrote:On September 10 2011 02:04 freewareplayer wrote:On September 10 2011 01:46 sOda~ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2011 01:44 freewareplayer wrote:
I honestly dont get how infestor can be a problem.
Scout Zerg going "mass infestor", make 1 Ht for each infestor ( which is already more than you would actually need to counter them, excessive example)
feedback all ( minimap targeting FTW, easy much?) you just already killed all infestors, and each templar has enough energy left for 2 ( 2?) storms, and you can warp archons after that.
Thats insanely cost effectice no? Why do protoss refuse to adapt after scouting?
Altho yes, right now fungal is a bit too strong. what do u use to scout? and where do u get all this gas for 10 hts where does the zerg get the gas for infestors? And i really dont feel like i need to tell you how to scout, i think u just dont want to..... Unlike Protoss, Zerg can actually make no gas units other than infestors and get away with it. Not to mention Zerg gets gifted 3 bases for free in every game. None of this is true at all. If Protoss plays to beat Ling/Infestor with Zeal (fast weap upgrades) and HT, the Zerg HAS to make Roaches or they will lose. There are also several timing attacks designed to kill a Zerg's third. Since when has the third ever been "free". It's just as "free" as Protoss' third base. You take your third when you have map control or when you've won an engagement. =/ not to mention archons are pretty darn good against lings.but again, it all falls back to scouting. you can either let the zerg do what he wants or you can do something about it.
i loled
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On September 10 2011 02:15 iPAndi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:14 Shade_CsT wrote:On September 10 2011 02:12 Zuxo wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW YEAH. If this change go through it will be so awesome To me, you look like " LOOOOOOOL This nerf is stupid and I'm gonna freewin with Attack-move Colossi Deathballs or Heavy Mech army !!! " You are not looking for game balance, you are looking for easy-win. It really shows how stupid this nerf is. It makes the game imbalanced (worst than the current state). So you think neural is balanced as is?
I think players are starting to learn to play against Infestor, and I love to see that as a Zerg player.
Terran are experimenting a ton with the ghost. Protoss players make more templar, some of them are using phoenix to Graviton the Neural Parasite-Infestor to cover the rest of the army.
Yes, Neural is balanced as it is to me.
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I think zerg is just mad they won't have it ez mode now. Zergs say toss should scout yet some of them sit on 2 bases and tech to infestors blindly because they're simply good against EVERYTHING.
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I play protoss, and even I think that the NP nerf is silly. There are now only like 3 units worth neuraling. Really, if they want to go nerf train on the infestor, they should just split fungal into two spells and make the root part cost more. Really, my biggest issue with the infestor is that it can consistently hold my units in place while they take massive amounts of damage for very little energy. fungal + baneling drops is actually just disgusting how quickly it eats through my whole army, and the frequency of infestor play makes stargate play damn near worthless. The problem with the infestor right now is not that it can take control of fat units like the colossus and the thor, it's that it doesn't function as a support caster. Every zerg and their mother is using it as the meat of their army, and since they're T2 units, they're out faster than high templar more often than not. This, coupled with the fact that pretty much every ounce of gas that a zerg has goes to making infestors, while I'm forced to invest in sentries and stalkers so i don't die to 2 base ling/roach/infestor allins, generally means I'm stuck with not nearly enough templar to deal with the infestors.
tl;dr: thanks blizzard for a nerf that literally only two bronze players were asking for because it countered their mass battlecruiser strategy.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:15 DFDream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:07 Dakkas wrote:On September 10 2011 02:05 DFDream wrote:
Just a thought but how are zergs supposed to deal with mass thor now?
Fungel only does 40 damage to them so it would take 10(13?) consecutive fungels to kill just a thor. Roaches melt to 200/200 thors so do mutas and in all honesty so do lings :S It's your fault for letting someone get 200/200 Thors Well yeah I do agree; but at the moment if you get nural you can actually win against 2 base 200/200 thor pushes(which are very stupid but some people do, do them >_>.) But if this change goes through all terran has to do is sit behind 5 bunkers like 2 tanks and infinity thors until they hit 200/200 and win and zerg can't really break that.
Do you realize how long it takes to make that many thors off 2 bases? You could have 5 bases and brood lords out and sieging their base before they hit 200/200 in thors.
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EPT
