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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon?
Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership...
As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore
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United Kingdom12037 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:01 iPAndi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 01:54 envisioN . wrote:
The NP change is going the wrong way IMO. I play as terran and as long as you REACT to infestors by getting ghosts NP really isn't a problem. 2x Snipe or 1 EMP is insanely good vs infestors especially with cloak. I do feel that Fungal needed a nerf but NP really wasn't hurting anyone. Says the terran.. Try being protoss and gettign all ur expensive splash units neuraled :/
That happens to terrans too you realise? Tanks being neuralled is the most frustrating thing ever when it happens. 
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The more I think about it the more I'm sure that NP change will not happen. It's almost like "FG will not hit air".
Yes Infestor is broken, but NP is not the problem. Inf.Terran - 50 nrg + FG = slow Is what i want to see.
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On September 10 2011 01:46 sOda~ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2011 01:44 freewareplayer wrote:
I honestly dont get how infestor can be a problem.
Scout Zerg going "mass infestor", make 1 Ht for each infestor ( which is already more than you would actually need to counter them, excessive example)
feedback all ( minimap targeting FTW, easy much?) you just already killed all infestors, and each templar has enough energy left for 2 ( 2?) storms, and you can warp archons after that.
Thats insanely cost effectice no? Why do protoss refuse to adapt after scouting?
Altho yes, right now fungal is a bit too strong. what do u use to scout? and where do u get all this gas for 10 hts
where does the zerg get the gas for infestors?
And i really dont feel like i need to tell you how to scout, i think u just dont want to.....
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on the PTR, the map loading message I got was something like that:
infestors can neuro parasite strong units such as colossus...
I guess, they need to change that. And does it mean that NP can no longer fullfill their purpose ?
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Just a thought but how are zergs supposed to deal with mass thor now?
Fungel only does 40 damage to them so it would take 10(13?) consecutive fungels to kill just a thor. Roaches melt to 200/200 thors so do mutas and in all honesty so do lings :S
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I'm actually very excited about the changes in this patch, most importantly the Infestor changes. As of late the Mass Infestor strategies from Zerg have been so popular and I've seen a lot less creativity from the race. I use to play Zerg since the beta and I changed to the other races when the infestor got the original buff.
Infestors were good before the buff, I used them with a lot of success especially against protoss for holding units in place for Baneling bombs. You just couldn't make them in mass and win in most situations. Infestors are cool units, and they definitely have their part in Starcraft but then should not be the crutch unit they are now.
Maybe some of the people that switched to Zerg will go back to Terran or Protoss and Zerg players will be seeing a lot more ZvZ's in the ladder.
TLDR: I think that this patch is a good one that will force Zerg players to go back to being creative, in-turn we will probably see the zerg population go down on the NA servers.
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yea the NP nerf is just too drastic. if anything they should just reduce its range so that collossus with range upgrade can micro out.
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On September 10 2011 02:03 Binabik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon? Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership... As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore
yeah cause fungal effects archons? wtf?
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So now we can Neural Parasite... ghosts and templar, and that's about it. The only reason to even upgrade NP before was to take care of thors / cattlebruisers or colossi / carriers (lol) / mothership (lol)
I'm actually fine with that, as Infestors are effective against just a few too many units. However, for ZvP, SOMETHING will have to change if zergs are gonna have an answer to colossi deathballs.
Hey blizzard, you guys gave the community the infestor nerfs most people wanted, is it time we can FINALLY see useful hydralisks yet?
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I think NP Nerf is in a wrong direction, rather than making NP unable to be used on Massive, there should be a way to remove fungals from massive. That would be the right direction. such as "Mana burn spells interrupting Channeled spells" (Read: EMP, Feedback) or attacking the NP'ed unit has a chance to break him out. you know, counters, not immunity
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On September 10 2011 02:04 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 01:46 sOda~ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2011 01:44 freewareplayer wrote:
I honestly dont get how infestor can be a problem.
Scout Zerg going "mass infestor", make 1 Ht for each infestor ( which is already more than you would actually need to counter them, excessive example)
feedback all ( minimap targeting FTW, easy much?) you just already killed all infestors, and each templar has enough energy left for 2 ( 2?) storms, and you can warp archons after that.
Thats insanely cost effectice no? Why do protoss refuse to adapt after scouting?
Altho yes, right now fungal is a bit too strong. what do u use to scout? and where do u get all this gas for 10 hts where does the zerg get the gas for infestors? And i really dont feel like i need to tell you how to scout, i think u just dont want to.....
Unlike Protoss, Zerg can actually make no gas units other than infestors and get away with it. Not to mention Zerg gets gifted 3 bases for free in every game.
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On September 10 2011 02:05 DFDream wrote:
Just a thought but how are zergs supposed to deal with mass thor now?
Fungel only does 40 damage to them so it would take 10(13?) consecutive fungels to kill just a thor. Roaches melt to 200/200 thors so do mutas and in all honesty so do lings :S
It's your fault for letting someone get 200/200 Thors
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An interesting change, though I do think it might be to big of a nerf... Massive units were(obviously) the main units you'd NP, others being tanks, immos, ghosts(though you shouldn't be able to), ravens and hts(again shouldn't be able to).
Still I'm excited, since if this change goes through, mech might be viable for more than 2 base push TvZ.
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On September 10 2011 02:06 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:03 Binabik wrote:On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon? Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership... As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore yeah cause fungal effects archons? wtf?
Why wouldn't fungal affect archons, only Ultralisks are immune to Fungal Snare
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Point is;
Protoss relies on High HP Gateway units to guard the High Damage units (Collosus, Archon). Infestor counters the following units;
Zealots, Sentry, Stalker, Dark Templar, (softcounters) High Templar, Voidray, (softcounter) Phoenix, Archon, (softcounters) Warpprism, Carrier, Collosus, Immortal, Mothership.
With the NP nerf, at least the Collosus and Carrier (and Mothership, which was a joke to be NPable) can be used to respectively deal AoE or force Zerg to her weaker AA side of the spectrum.
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On September 10 2011 02:04 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 01:46 sOda~ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2011 01:44 freewareplayer wrote:
I honestly dont get how infestor can be a problem.
Scout Zerg going "mass infestor", make 1 Ht for each infestor ( which is already more than you would actually need to counter them, excessive example)
feedback all ( minimap targeting FTW, easy much?) you just already killed all infestors, and each templar has enough energy left for 2 ( 2?) storms, and you can warp archons after that.
Thats insanely cost effectice no? Why do protoss refuse to adapt after scouting?
Altho yes, right now fungal is a bit too strong. what do u use to scout? and where do u get all this gas for 10 hts where does the zerg get the gas for infestors? And i really dont feel like i need to tell you how to scout, i think u just dont want to.....
Zerg can go Speedlings in early game, Protoss can't go Zealots...
And mini-map targeting???? Have you ever tried that yourself? It's the worst thing ever, because you are going to hit the same Infestor 432890 times ._.
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On September 10 2011 02:06 RedDragon571 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:03 Binabik wrote:On September 10 2011 01:56 ContactKilla wrote:
I play Terran and i think that the NP not affecting massive is a little stupid. I say that because when they made Archons massive, we couldnt kite them anymore with rauds and now the archon has free movment against zerg. A little stupid if you ask me. Now zerg has to stutter step like a Terran to get away from an Archon? Fungal and kill them with range 4 Roaches??? Nobody will care about NP against Archon, NP is for Colossus and Mothership... As a Protoss player NP nerf is kinda cool, now 20 Infestors wonÄt just kill everything anymore yeah cause fungal effects archons? wtf?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Fungal_Growth
-_-
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GL vs mass thors Zerg. LOL
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On September 10 2011 01:42 57 Corvette wrote:WHOAWHOAWHOA This was kinda the entire point of NP, why would they remove it? Now you can't NP Thors/collosi/archons/ultras, what is it's use?
Couldn't NP ultras before...
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EPT
