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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 10 2011 02:52 Cyrak wrote:There is this implicit argument here that as long as a unit has a counter it should be allowed to be awesome against everything. I've watched too much of Morrow's play to have any sort of respect for the arguments these guys are making. edit: God help us when they balance the game on the advice of people who are financially motivated to have an imbalanced game.
So true. Like whenever any Protoss player complaines about Ghost and EMP, everyone just says:
"FEEDBACK!!!!! USE IT!!!!!"
No follow up argument, no suggestion on how to get that unit or a build that can get you there. Just get feedback and use it. Its that simple.
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On September 10 2011 02:58 Treble557 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:57 Jerubaal wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. Let me guess: Matchup is fine. Protoss players just need to L2P. Something along those lines yeah? He's goin protoss if this happens probably actually, lol.
This is a pointless derail, and that will never happen.
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On September 10 2011 02:58 Treble557 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:57 Jerubaal wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. Let me guess: Matchup is fine. Protoss players just need to L2P. Something along those lines yeah? He's goin protoss if this happens probably actually, lol.
Well, that will make some drama. And we all know that drama makes people watch, which is what he wants.
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I can't wait for this patch to come out. I don't care what the notes will be but I know its going to help protoss because protoss needs help. I have given up 1v1 until this patch comes out.
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The infestor nerf would've been fine if they had buffed the other Zerg units, but as is, it's just a bad nerf to Zerg. The Ultralisk, even if it comes out a little bit faster, is still a bad unit overall. Hopefully they can tweak it a bit to make it worthwhile.
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On September 10 2011 03:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:58 Treble557 wrote:On September 10 2011 02:57 Jerubaal wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. Let me guess: Matchup is fine. Protoss players just need to L2P. Something along those lines yeah? He's goin protoss if this happens probably actually, lol. Well, that will make some drama. And we all know that drama makes people watch, which is what he wants.
That's a bit spikey. Destiny plays because he likes the game, same as why he plays MW2 and Deus Ex. The fact that thousands tune in to watch him do so is a bonus. I imagine he'd do the same even if he wasn't popular, just he'd have to get a 9-5.
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On September 10 2011 02:58 Treble557 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:57 Jerubaal wrote:On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol. Let me guess: Matchup is fine. Protoss players just need to L2P. Something along those lines yeah? He's goin protoss if this happens probably actually, lol.
I would love to see that.
He constantly talks about all these magical options protoss supposedly has. I can't wait to learn a new style of protoss from destiny that includes 3 nexii on 2 base and vortexing motherships... that kinda protoss play will truly move the game forward...
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On September 10 2011 02:47 JustTray wrote:
I'm surprised by all the whining. It could have been much worse.
They could have removed energy upgrade from infestors.
They could have made fungal not hit air again.
They could have nerfed the dps of fungal all the way back down to prior to being overpowered.
So now, you just have to make corruptors, you know, like all the other races when they scout a tech switch.
Thank your lucky stars its not worse. Zerg was beating terran over 60% of the time with close positions included on the "most balanced map" by the community. Just shows how little people on these forums know/understand.
Zergs are whining is due to the fact that PVZ is going to become unplayable again. Corrupters are the worst unit in the game. The ONLY time they have any sort of utility is against collossus, and once the collossus are dead you have around 700 min and gas tied up in units that cant attack anything. Becuase you have to make corrupters to deal with collossus now, zergs cannot invest in infestor tech, which means zergs have to go back to the roach/hydra/ corrupter composition which lost to Toss death ball A moves every game. Moreover, I dont know where you are getting your stats for zerg winning %60 against terran. GSL code is 2/3 terrans. If terrans were really losing %60 of the time against zerg, the GSL would not be so terran heavy.
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On September 10 2011 02:22 NineteenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 02:22 SafeAsCheese wrote:On September 10 2011 02:21 NineteenSC2 wrote:
The infestor:
Good for attacking
Good for defending
Good for harrassing
Good against zealot, sentry, stalker, archons, immortals, carriers, voidrays, mothership, pheonix, observers, dts, collosi, probes and (debatable) high templars.
So good in every situation and against every unit.
The change is perfect. HT/Ghost - good for attacking - good for defending - good for harassing Let's make storm and EMP not hit massive, 'kay? Except they dont counter every single unit. The infestor: Good for attacking Good for defending Good for harrassing Good against zealot, sentry, stalker, archons, immortals, carriers, voidrays, mothership, pheonix, observers, dts, collosi, probes and (debatable) high templars. So good in every situation and against every unit. The change is perfect. The infestor is a tier 2 unit, and blizzard is putting it where it belongs.
I disagree with the infestor being tier 2, since the races tiers are differently structured, the only sensible method of defining tiers is as "a unit is the same tier as the minimum amount of buildings/upgrades of buildings required to build said unit, excluded buildings are the first main building, supply-buildings and buildings that can be built/upgraded simoultaneously as another required building." EX: the spire can be built while the hive morphs, thus the spire does not count when calculating the tier of the BL, the greater spire however, does. tech labs can be built while a factory is being made, thus the techlab does not count for the tier calculation of tanks. the techlab cannot be built while building the first barracks, thus the techlab counts for the tier calculation of the maruader and reaper. the assimilator can be built while building the gateway, thus it does not count to the tier calculation of stalkers, sentries, or any protoss unit in higher tech, this can also be said about the other races.
this definition tells us how difficult it is to get certain units and yields the following:
+ Show Spoiler +
tier 0:
drone
overlord
broodling
SCV
probe
tier 1:
queen
zergling
marine
zealot
tier 2:
baneling
roach
maruader
reaper
ghost
hellion
siege tank
M.U.L.E.
sentry
stalker
tier 3:
infestor
infested terran
hydralisk
mutalisk
corruptor
banshee
viking
thor
medivac
immortal
observer
phoenix
voidray
tier 4:
battlecruiser
HT
DT
collosus
carrier
mothership
tier 5:
ultralisk
broodlord
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On September 10 2011 02:46 Treble557 wrote: http://sv.twitch.tv/colcatz/b/294620992 1:16 in for destiny/catz/kyles/reignfayths opinions on the NP changes. Lotta very good points are raised. Catz's mic is a bit super loud tho so.. Yeah. Be warned, lol.
Haha, they're having the exact same speech that people were having about zerg when they where decimated by the deathball before getting buffed. "But they could do so much shit, like 2 base mothership or 3 nexus openings §§§" == "make nydus lol"
This is so funny (and ironic)
About the colossi, we don't see them anymore in both matchups (or only in a tech switch). They were boring 8 months ago, but I don't feel they're boring anymore, because they're rarer.
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I think that NP nerf is ridiculous but Ultras will come little faster now too and as everyone knows Ultras pretty much eat Colossi. Still NP nerf is pretty wtf. ;B
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Protoss is definitely overpowered in this game, as any noob will tell you. The amount of skill required to hold off Protoss cheese is stunningly large, and now, any protoss can just mass collossi, make their opponent mass corrupters, make blink stalkers and dance all over the map while the more skilled zerg opponent has to cower in fear and macro and micro as a professional... I dont care that Im a platinum zerg, this change was uncalled for and is a MOCKERY of the game. AND as if zergies could even manage their neural parasite properly.... oh man, ive seen it done so rarely that its funny...From now on, I am only going to ladder with the intention of trolling people to mock the protoss race, like destiny is doing right now
NEED MOAR COLLOSUS HERP DERP
User was warned for this post
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They (Blizzard) just want Zergs to try other already viable strats, and lean from infestor/broodlord everygame. Honestly is it that bad? No. Will Thors be unstoppable no. There are different play styles that need to be revisited and worked on.
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Weird change. I think something probably needed to happen to infestors, but it should have related to infested terran or fungal not NP. I fear the first two spells much more than np, neural is just the cherry on top. So while as I'm a protoss I'm happy because a match up that has been really difficult for a while now just got a little easier, I'm also confused as to why blizz went about it this way.
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Whatever people are saying, zergs are still struggling against good terrans and protosses. The fact that Zerg can NP colossi has allowed Zerg to at most break even against a good Protoss.
With this nerf Zerg will fall back into the dark ages. And for some reason no one but Zergs will notice, and those same Zergs will therefore be called whiners and told to shut up and play the game.
I won't be surprised if this change is reverted, but the scary thing is I won't be surprised if it isn't.
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idk about this NP nerf....
Now you remove the micro when you go ling + infestor and a protoss who can micro his colossous now will be godlike. I have a bad feeling about this. I can understand it vs Mothership but the problem is vs the colossous.
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On September 10 2011 03:11 ene13 wrote:
Protoss is definitely overpowered in this game, as any noob will tell you. The amount of skill required to hold off Protoss cheese is stunningly large, and now, any protoss can just mass collossi, make their opponent mass corrupters, make blink stalkers and dance all over the map while the more skilled zerg opponent has to cower in fear and macro and micro as a professional... I dont care that Im a platinum zerg, this change was uncalled for and is a MOCKERY of the game. AND as if zergies could even manage their neural parasite properly.... oh man, ive seen it done so rarely that its funny...From now on, I am only going to ladder with the intention of trolling people to mock the protoss race, like destiny is doing right now
NEED MOAR COLLOSUS HERP DERP
Hmm... Something seems slightly off with this description... What could it be?
Oh yeah. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players
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They now killed the micro as protoss now need to blink small groups of stalkers and snipe the infestors that are mind controlling but now the obvious counter to infestors are colossous.
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The Infestor change is absolutely retarded. They should've just buffed High Templar, since Protosses are having trouble against Ghost anyway.
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My opinion is that the Neural Parasite nerf might be overkill. I agree with what CatZ said, that people are just now starting to learn how to use Infestors properly and Blizzard hasn't really given anybody a chance to learn how to deal with it. Instead of letting the metagame evolve they jumped to help out Protoss in... Possibly overly dramatic ways.
"Zergs have been looking for answers in this matchup for 7 months. When we finally found it, it was taken away."
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EPT
