EPTIt seems as if anytime zerg finds an answer it gets taken away by blizz.
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 336
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
It seems as if anytime zerg finds an answer it gets taken away by blizz. | ||
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Chemist391
United States366 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:23 EmilA wrote: I'm sorry, but destiny even being grandmaster is testiment to infestors being overpowered. Make this guy play _any_ other zerg playstyle and he's terrible. He has quit his job to stream, and his level of play is centered around his one-trick-pony playstyle, so he has everything to lose and he's biased as hell. Yeeeeeah...that whole thing is like 90% Destiny whining. I couldn't say how good he is minus infestors but pretty much everyone there is just being really biased except maybe Catz. I do agree with him though that protoss who claim that they are really limited and have tried everything are talking shite. You watch Sage or JYP for 10 minutes and you realise the variety that protoss can bring to the table. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:29 ma70 wrote: Wow...so many complaints over the neutral parasite change. Infestors have two other spells that are pretty great too. Largely because the NP nerf doesn't make any sense. Fungal nerf you can argue. If they turned it into a 70% snare instead of a 100% snare, I don't people would realistically have a foot to stand on arguing against it. But as is: Infestors are 100/150 NP takes 150/150 and 100 seconds to research NP takes 100 energy NP has a castable range of 9 NP lasts a maximum of 15 in-game seconds This isn't much of an overall infestor nerf. Fungal and IT are still are powerful as ever, but Zerg really has nothing vs Thors and Motherships now. | ||
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ene13
50 Posts
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TerranMeApart
United States27 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:18 ppdealer wrote: The Infestor change is absolutely retarded. They should've just buffed High Templar, since Protosses are having trouble against Ghost anyway. Yeah, probably - it's so hard to land feedbacks when High Templar are slower AND feedback is shorter range than EMP/Fungal/Snipe. And HT don't have any [potential] cloaking mechanism either. HT Speed is 1.875 (man, they make hydras look swift) Feedback is 9 Storm is 9 + 1.5 AoE (but doesn't really deal with enemy casters that well unless the opponent makes a serious mistake in their caster micro) Infestor speed is 2.25 Fungal Growth is 9 + 1.5 AoE (and DOES deal with enemy casters reasonably well, since locking them down can either allow chain fungal to kill them, or allow other units to snipe them) NP is 9 (one of the reasons you don't see NP used on enemy casters) Longer range + faster... if both side are controlling their units appropriately, fungals land on templar before feedbacks can hit Infestors. Ghost speed is 2.25 Snipe range is 10 EMP range is 10 + 2.0 AoE (bigger aoe than the others, huh - didn't know that before.) Small wonder Ghost + army vs High templar + army "seems to" end in terran victories "all the time" - again, longer range (with even more breathing room) and again, higher move speed. Solution? Buff HT (probably their movespeed, feedback range is another option) Feedback in BW had range 10 - 1 range longer than most other spellcasters' spells had. (granted, it was an extremely rarely used spell, due to being on the dark archon.) IMO, this makes sense - if you want to have a spell be anti-caster, it needs to be designed to be usable on enemy casters. The current incarnation of feedback from high templar makes it relatively easy to avoid from enemy units. Not only are you faster than the HT, but you can also "catch it" before it gets in range to feedback. Kiting doesn't just apply to attacking units! | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On September 10 2011 02:58 Treble557 wrote: He's goin protoss if this happens probably actually, lol. Ah so going from poor results to NO results | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
"if the NP change makes the collo deathball tactic popular again, perhaps contaminate is abuseable due to the change in overseer cost, perhaps it might be worth it to get 6 overseers just to disrupt the production of collossi and possibly carriers if they get popular, forcing the enemy toss to have less high-tier units means you don't need a super-mega awesomely cost-efficient army, since a greater part of the P army will be gateway units, which are not very cost efficient either. perhaps this is something that can be explored... TO THE ZERGMOBILE ARTHUR! DRIVE ME TO THE LEVIATHAN CAVE! i must start experimenting." | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:37 -Archangel- wrote: That is true. They lost movespeed, and this huge nerf to NP. I would also like to see them returned to the state before FG buff And FG is being toned down from the original buff. It actually deals less damage to light units then it did previously, although the DPS is still much larger. | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:34 -Archangel- wrote: Yes, Destiny and Catz won 5 GSL, 6 MLGs anda random Dreamhack here and there by using "imba" infestors and "imba" neural parasite.... Please if you don't have anything smart to say, don't say anything at all. You post is just insulting those people. I'm curious what thought process (or lack thereof) led you from my post to this reply. They're completely unrelated and if you're going to quote things then respond with a non sequitur reply I'm not sure how we are supposed to debate anything. | ||
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Cain0
United Kingdom608 Posts
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2624976791 Instead of Massive units being immune to NP, Psyonic is immune to NP. This would help Protoss without breaking ZvT. What do you guys think? | ||
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
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clownzim
Brazil267 Posts
doesn't it seems wrong? | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:41 Cyrak wrote: I'm curious what thought process (or lack thereof) led you from my post to this reply. They're completely unrelated and if you're going to quote things then respond with a non sequitur reply I'm not sure how we are supposed to debate anything. Maybe you should read you edit in that post and rethink you position. If you still feel your way, I guess nobody can help you. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:35 urashimakt wrote: I don't see it as a question of whether or not the Infestor is an imbalanced unit so much as what is the point of Neural Parasite if it can't be used on units worth being used on. Anyone can comment on that, so why not a TL featured streamer? Because anyone can come up with a reason why something shouldn't be nerfed. Every terran could rightfully argue that blue flame hellions against workers can be solved by careful sim city - it'd be correct, but it wouldn't change the glaringly obvious fact that BF hellions are broken. Likewise, infestors can theoretically be handled by feedback, but in reality it just doesn't happen. Infestors are in a state where they're freaking ridiculous against pretty much everything but their intended counter units (that happen to be branched out specialist units) and even then, they're not being dominated by said units at all. If banelings did 45 damage, it would be still be possible for terran to trade cost effectively by splitting each marine individually, but banelings would still just be too good. Destiny just points out that there is a unit that can do alright against the infestor, which he thinks justifies the infestor being rather imbalanced against everything else. | ||
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Andytaker
88 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:46 clownzim wrote: decrease any zerg spawn time is stupid. u spawn now TWO sets of ultras b4 ONE colli comes up chronoboosted. Except you can start building Colossi way before Zerg start building Ultras. Not to mentions Toss can turtle more easily against Zergs waiting for those colossi then Zerg can do against Toss. You cannot just look at two numbers and come to conclusions that mean anything. | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:44 Cain0 wrote: May I direct your attention to this idea; http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2624976791 Instead of Massive units being immune to NP, Psyonic is immune to NP. This would help Protoss without breaking ZvT. What do you guys think? I like this idea actually. It'd still suck not being able to use NP in zvp, but.. atleast it won't make thor/broflame hellion combos unstoppable. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On September 10 2011 03:13 Oreo7 wrote: Weird change. I think something probably needed to happen to infestors, but it should have related to infested terran or fungal not NP. I fear the first two spells much more than np, neural is just the cherry on top. So while as I'm a protoss I'm happy because a match up that has been really difficult for a while now just got a little easier, I'm also confused as to why blizz went about it this way. Well making colossus a viable option against zerg again will indirectly weaken infested terran (not the harassment, but honestly the harassment component of them is fine). A few swipes will kill chunks of infested terrans so being able to use colossus will help against those "lol you cant make colossi anymore and templar is too far down the tech tree" pushes zergs are doing in masters+. The other affect of the indirect colossus buff is that corruptors may be more useful than infestors alone once again leaving zerg with a choice to make. Since blink got nerfed again alot of blink timings will be delayed and Z will be much safer against it. They will have an easier time getting their econ advantage that they like as a result in PvZ so it will be easier to turn those corruptors into broodlords, which imo will at least help a tiny bit in making building corruptors easier to swallow. This change is for the betterment of the game. They have weakened one small component of a powerful unit, making that upgrade situational, and have given given the protoss their colossus back and the terran their thor back in vZ. This change makes the game MORE interesting overall, which is good | ||
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