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Regarding the whole "If you used shuttles in BW, why can't you use warp prisms in SC2":
1. They're different games, each race has different units, there are different maps, different pathing, so I don't even see why this is an argument
2. Shuttles were a bit more resilient than warp prisms are, especially considering the higher dps of sc2 units.
3. The robo in BW had nothing better to do. You didn't use it to produce essential combat units (colossi). It was the support tree that provided shuttles for drops, reavers very often for drops, and observers for detection. In sc2 you sacrifice production time you could be spending on colossi, or in some situations immortals,
4. BW Protoss had units worth dropping. Zealots could keep up with workers a bit more, reavers were amazing, high templar had storms that covered a greater area and did more total damage, etc. In SC2, sentries are decent but are too costly to put in the glass house. Zealots are too slow, stalkers have too little dps, immortals are too expensive and only good against buildings, colossi don't work and are too expensive, dts are decent but expensive and most players would have detection at every base, and high templar can't be warped because Khaydarin is gone so they are costly to fly over and good players will pull workers pretty quickly.
5. SC2 Protoss is too ball oriented and it needs to be unfortunately. The strong units in large numbers have good synergy, but alone they don't work well. You're better off just throwing more into your ball.
6. It is easier to gain map awareness in SC2. You need to make sure the warp prism doesn't pass through any Xel'Naga towers and dodge through overlords and around buildings that can spot you.
7. The AI in BW made it hard to catch speed shuttles. A few stimmed marines, a queen, a spore crawler, a photon cannon, a missile turret, a viking, an infestor, and a muta are all likely to kill you in SC2 and you have little chance of escaping.
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On August 15 2011 03:53 Spacekyod wrote:
While it is quite disparaging right now, i'm not going to start worrying until a month or two from now. Just like zerg was able to adapt and pick up their win rates, so shall protoss. And to be honest, while inca, vanvanth, and anypro were in code S for quite awhile, they are definitely not code S material.
Regarding PvT and the 1/1/1, i will give terran credit for not overly abusing this strategy up until now and getting it to last this long, but now that an uproar has commenced i see that strat's days as numbered.
If there is anything to learn from previous zerg QQ, we should know to have faith that things will turn around soon enough. If not from strats or patches, then atleast from the upcoming expansions.
Zergs only started getting better lately because infestors were buffed and made easier to micro somewhat. I don't believe there will be a 'genius' protoss player out there to show us how its done. Most of the top Toss players are out, and I hoped that MC could teach us something new but he has lost early the last two GSL.
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I feel that Protoss was the most nerfed race, if you will. Whenever there was a balance issue, we got nerfed. I mean, we have no KA amulet, yet Z can keep the Pathogen Glands, AND get a 20% armor buff. But I understannd the difference between having to wait for an infestor to hatch, and waiting 4 seconds to get an insta warping psy storm. I'm not QQing, I am just saying that in a large majority of patches, there were Protoss nerfs.
Just my $0.02.
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Zerg players said Protoss should innovate, the only unit I didn;t use in pvz is the carrier so I'm trying a sick FFE into 2 base carrier, but they roach bust me everytime 
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Can't wait for Code A tonight
+ Show Spoiler +Hes the Last protoss in Code A ro8 and if he wins he will be one of 4 and maybe it wont look so bad.
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On August 15 2011 11:52 Kammalleri wrote:Zerg players said Protoss should innovate, the only unit I didn;t use in pvz is the carrier so I'm trying a sick FFE into 2 base carrier, but they roach bust me everytime
Try only using one stargate for carriers and adding in a mothership when you get the gas, adding more gates for the rest of the army, then push when momma pops out or use it to cloak your third coming up =). Mana tried it for fun a few times against zerg on his stream and surprisingly destroyed people. It seems pretty gimmicky but if the zerg is doing their crazy drone up to a million, that they usually begin when they see a void ray, then you should be safe. Just need to scout with the void ray and show it to them.
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Sick of the PvZ whining bullshit. The 2 tier 3 units Zerg has have multiple counters. Brood Lords are countered by Blink Stalkers, Void Rays, etc. Ultralisks are countered by Void Rays, Archons, Immortals and more. What is the counter to these units? Infestors. What counters Infestors? Feedback. For 50 minerals cheaper you can warp in a unit that will instantly kill any Infestor on the battle. Then what are you left with? An army that melts instantly to everything Protoss has.
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Individual GSL seasons have had a lot of volatility; I don't want to read too much into this. But, as someone said a few months ago, Terran and Zerg both have their clear top-tier players, and a whole lot of pretty-good players as a next tier. For Protoss you have MC, Alicia, maybe HongUn, and then it really goes downhill. (Although this was before Puzzle emerged as a strong player. Personally, I've never thought of Killer or Trickster as being particularly good.)
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I never see warp prism play from protoss but I don't think the warp prism itself is to blame. The only unit protoss has that can kill workers fast enough is HT with storm and that's an investment only available late game. A few zelots are much cheaper but they don't kill workers as much as they just delay mining time. IMO toss needs a good harass unit that can kill workers so a warp prism in your base actually requires quick response. For now toss may have to just play like traditional zerg where you defend until you have 80 workers and abuse the full force of your late game.
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Btw you can put warp prisms on tanks and start warping in zealots. You get a refund if the unit dies during warp in so it's pretty much free zeal bombing
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On August 15 2011 12:25 Soulish wrote:
Btw you can put warp prisms on tanks and start warping in zealots. You get a refund if the unit dies during warp in so it's pretty much free zeal bombing
I'm pretty sure you don't get refunded...and also marines would just shoot down the warp prism anyways.
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On August 15 2011 12:16 ComTrav wrote:
Individual GSL seasons have had a lot of volatility; I don't want to read too much into this. But, as someone said a few months ago, Terran and Zerg both have their clear top-tier players, and a whole lot of pretty-good players as a next tier. For Protoss you have MC, Alicia, maybe HongUn, and then it really goes downhill. (Although this was before Puzzle emerged as a strong player. Personally, I've never thought of Killer or Trickster as being particularly good.)
The problem is that this early into the game, saying a player is top-tier does not tell us anything. For example, protosses may be having problems because they have a deficiency somewhere (let's say harassing for instance) that other races are able to abuse (like zerg heavily droning up despite void rays and phoenixes encroaching). Therefore when you see a zerg get far ahead, they look better than the protoss, a good example is that people often say the zerg has much better macro even though the toss hasn't halted probe production at all the entire game.
Therefore it looks like protosses aren't as solid as players of the other races, and that if the players had chosen the opposite races when they began SC2, these roles may very well be reversed. This is just an example of how something in game design could cause players of a certain race to look worse, despite having the same exact skills. It is impossible to prove one way or the other that the Toss players not considered "top-tier" would be part of this tier if they were playing another race.
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PvZ may feel imbalanced, but I think experimentation with timing and positioning will make it better. PvT, when its NOT a 1-1-1 also feels manageable. The only clear issue for P right now is the 1-1-1.
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On August 15 2011 12:12 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Sick of the PvZ whining bullshit. The 2 tier 3 units Zerg has have multiple counters. Brood Lords are countered by Blink Stalkers, Void Rays, etc. Ultralisks are countered by Void Rays, Archons, Immortals and more. What is the counter to these units? Infestors. What counters Infestors? Feedback. For 50 minerals cheaper you can warp in a unit that will instantly kill any Infestor on the battle. Then what are you left with? An army that melts instantly to everything Protoss has.
Actually zerglings kill HTs before you can fb, so you either storm a bunch of cheap lings or fb 1v1 infestor. You can never afford a big amount of hts like infestor cuz protoss armies are too expensive, leave you with a few 4-5 HTs only. And with the KA removed, ht is more useless than ever, too risky to invest. So What if Blizz remove energies upgrade from both infestor and ghost then 
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On August 15 2011 12:29 kenkaze291 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 12:25 Soulish wrote:
Btw you can put warp prisms on tanks and start warping in zealots. You get a refund if the unit dies during warp in so it's pretty much free zeal bombing I'm pretty sure you don't get refunded...and also marines would just shoot down the warp prism anyways.
You do. Marines might shoot down warp prisms ( notice the plural, this idea calls for 4 to 5 prisms late game), but proper positioning you get the chance to unload an epic zeal bomb. Obviously this strat works best vs mech
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On August 15 2011 12:25 Soulish wrote:
Btw you can put warp prisms on tanks and start warping in zealots. You get a refund if the unit dies during warp in so it's pretty much free zeal bombing
That'd be great. But, marines.
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Both Terran and protoss need to put pressure on Zerg or they will pull ahead in drone production once the queen is out. However, Protoss unit and not as cost efficient as Zerg unlike Terran. We have to resort to what people call cheesy tactics such as SG or DT. Attacking str8 on with roaches or lings defending is not just not cost efficient. Zerg will eventually pull ahead economically. Zerg are Often slightly ahead in economy not because they have good macro, most Zerg I play don't, they have huge minerals bank. But they abuse their economy advantage by massing roach and using infestor in which there are simply no way for a Toss to defend with units that are less cost efficient. Toss need superior positioning using sentry forcefield to hold it Off. If toss does not have easy access to the third base, we will eventually die cause the Zerg will take the whole map.
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On August 15 2011 07:42 Darclite wrote:
Regarding the whole "If you used shuttles in BW, why can't you use warp prisms in SC2":
1. They're different games, each race has different units, there are different maps, different pathing, so I don't even see why this is an argument
2. Shuttles were a bit more resilient than warp prisms are, especially considering the higher dps of sc2 units.
3. The robo in BW had nothing better to do. You didn't use it to produce essential combat units (colossi). It was the support tree that provided shuttles for drops, reavers very often for drops, and observers for detection. In sc2 you sacrifice production time you could be spending on colossi, or in some situations immortals,
4. BW Protoss had units worth dropping. Zealots could keep up with workers a bit more, reavers were amazing, high templar had storms that covered a greater area and did more total damage, etc. In SC2, sentries are decent but are too costly to put in the glass house. Zealots are too slow, stalkers have too little dps, immortals are too expensive and only good against buildings, colossi don't work and are too expensive, dts are decent but expensive and most players would have detection at every base, and high templar can't be warped because Khaydarin is gone so they are costly to fly over and good players will pull workers pretty quickly.
5. SC2 Protoss is too ball oriented and it needs to be unfortunately. The strong units in large numbers have good synergy, but alone they don't work well. You're better off just throwing more into your ball.
6. It is easier to gain map awareness in SC2. You need to make sure the warp prism doesn't pass through any Xel'Naga towers and dodge through overlords and around buildings that can spot you.
7. The AI in BW made it hard to catch speed shuttles. A few stimmed marines, a queen, a spore crawler, a photon cannon, a missile turret, a viking, an infestor, and a muta are all likely to kill you in SC2 and you have little chance of escaping.
AI hard to catch the speed shuttles seriously who relies on AI to help you in microing or picking off enemy speedshuttles tell that to stork or stats they will seriously make you change your mind in a single game try dropping a speedshuttle in his base . Than lets see if the AI has got to do anything with the game at all.
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Blizzard keeps saying they want to wait until they nerf things, but they didn't wait to nerf Protoss- they just swung the bat. And now it's becoming clear that the game wasn't developed enough yet to warrant nerfs on really any of the races.
I think they should just take back all of the nerfs.
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On August 11 2011 15:55 TheLOLas wrote:
I sort of feel that Protoss hasn't evolved like the other races have. Protoss players seem to try to play the game the way they did 3 months ago while terran players and zerg players are trying new and unique things. Zerg in particular have drastically evolved ( No pun intended ) with their roaches in ZvT and more infestor play.
I personally dont think that Protoss players are changing up their game so they are being figured out. EGIncontrol actually stated this in a recent SOTG. When he said that his strategies were already solved. I think that when Protoss players start experimenting more we will see more victories for Aiur.
That's because Protoss is the most inflexible race.
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EPT
