EPTOn August 11 2011 13:50 fadestep wrote:
I support your decision bud. You seem like a pretty horrific poster.
Bah. This thread needs a lock and pad on it and a trip down south.
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2011 13:45 Joey Wheeler wrote:
DIFFICULTY =/= BALANCE
how many fucking times do I have to repeat myself? Mods please permanently ban me so I don't have to fucking deal with this stupid bullshit anymore.
On August 11 2011 13:42 sickle wrote:
You want facts? Ok i'll give you facts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252090
On August 11 2011 13:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Due to lack of reading comphrension from you, I'll speak in a simpler way.
Missing ff in early game, bad
Missing ff in mid to late game, doesn't matter (you have a shitload of sentries, 1 forcefield won't make a difference)
spread casters away from each other in deathball, easy
But what really got me pissed is that last sentence. When the fuck did I say you should stop using sentries? It's you who is the fucking retard that said you don't have 10+ sentries because of "gas intensive units"
As for concaves, Protoss has it by far the easiest. Why's that?
Your units don't take serious splash damage from anything
Colossus have 9 Range
Do I have to go on are you going to keep trying to state your opinion against actual facts? Just look at what I said against why storms don't make a difference compared to micro errors from other races. Seriously, read my post again. Fucking retards like you make me so frustrated.
On August 11 2011 13:32 sickle wrote:
Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts.
Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio.
On August 11 2011 13:19 Joey Wheeler wrote:
difficulty =/= balance
Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units).
As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range.
Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance
On August 11 2011 13:06 sickle wrote:
Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp?
On August 11 2011 12:58 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe.
For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good.
Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly.
I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race.
On August 11 2011 12:44 sickle wrote:
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops?
On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops?
Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe.
For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good.
On August 11 2011 12:44 Flameling wrote:
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro.
On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro.
Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly.
I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race.
Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp?
difficulty =/= balance
Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units).
As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range.
Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance
Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts.
Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio.
Due to lack of reading comphrension from you, I'll speak in a simpler way.
Missing ff in early game, bad
Missing ff in mid to late game, doesn't matter (you have a shitload of sentries, 1 forcefield won't make a difference)
spread casters away from each other in deathball, easy
But what really got me pissed is that last sentence. When the fuck did I say you should stop using sentries? It's you who is the fucking retard that said you don't have 10+ sentries because of "gas intensive units"
As for concaves, Protoss has it by far the easiest. Why's that?
Your units don't take serious splash damage from anything
Colossus have 9 Range
Do I have to go on are you going to keep trying to state your opinion against actual facts? Just look at what I said against why storms don't make a difference compared to micro errors from other races. Seriously, read my post again. Fucking retards like you make me so frustrated.
You want facts? Ok i'll give you facts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252090
DIFFICULTY =/= BALANCE
how many fucking times do I have to repeat myself? Mods please permanently ban me so I don't have to fucking deal with this stupid bullshit anymore.
I support your decision bud. You seem like a pretty horrific poster.
Bah. This thread needs a lock and pad on it and a trip down south.
Posters like you actually make me want to kill myself. There's no way you contributed to the discussion apart from "ur stupid protoss is hard im biased ur plat league". I actually tried to keep an argument, then I started getting replies from protoss diamond league super stars that
1) delivered no argument
2) completely missed the point
3) blinded by bias because they would rather blame balance than try to get better
Just shut the fuck up and look at what you're posting.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pme5A.jpg)
