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the only thing easier is protoss's macro.
units are more expensive in general, so it's easier to spend your money. also since 1 probe can build everything, it's easier to shift queue buildings.
toss requires good unit control and micro though. every unit counts since they are so expensive. the big old death ball 1a does not happen at very high levels.
a lot of zerg players say how their race requires most skill, but honestly it's just game sense and keeping up with their injects. because they have so many units, most zergs i see 1a a shit ton more than toss players. totally different playstyle imo.
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meh nvm, am done with this
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On August 11 2011 13:19 Grampz wrote:
so many upset nerds in this thread that i cant even post my opinion without getting flamed by incoherent arguements. sad but thats the lick of these kinds of discussion threads
Haters gonna hate. Why enjoy playing your own race when you can rage at other people for the race they play?
Everybody plays the toughest, weakest race. Fact.
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On August 11 2011 13:27 fadestep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:19 Grampz wrote:
so many upset nerds in this thread that i cant even post my opinion without getting flamed by incoherent arguements. sad but thats the lick of these kinds of discussion threads Haters gonna hate. Why enjoy playing your own race when you can rage at other people for the race they play? Everybody plays the toughest, weakest race. Fact.
Other than protoss players, you mean?
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On August 11 2011 13:27 Rassy wrote:
LMAO @ all that bashing of sjonny silver and gold noobs
Its been ages since i have read so much stupidity from underaged kids in 1 tread
Normally it doesnt bother me at all
(i just dont care for what people with no brains or experience say) but since i got to love and care for this game and tl i have to say it now annyway since i think it is a bad thing in general
the bashing down on lower league players by people who probably just got diamond (LOL) with more or less subtle remarks in this tread and on team liquid in general is realy pathetic and i am truly disapointed in the level of maturity on this forum
This tread isnt even about balance lol,
the op didnt ask "wich is the most easy race"
he asked "why do people see protoss as the most easy race"
but every toss player got on their high horse and felt personally attacked -.-
annyway: a verry entertaining tread after all,one of the first i read almost every post (couldnt sleep)
loved the pic with the protoss keyboard^^
Protoss players take this personally because its fucking insulting and we get it ALL THE TIME.
Nobody likes to catch shit 24/7 on ladder and on forums for the race they play. Especially when its mostly inane ramblings from people who play this game at such a sub optimal fucking level that any actual differences in balance or difficulty in play aren't even being approached.
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On August 11 2011 13:30 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:27 fadestep wrote:On August 11 2011 13:19 Grampz wrote:
so many upset nerds in this thread that i cant even post my opinion without getting flamed by incoherent arguements. sad but thats the lick of these kinds of discussion threads Haters gonna hate. Why enjoy playing your own race when you can rage at other people for the race they play? Everybody plays the toughest, weakest race. Fact. Other than protoss players, you mean?
No that's not what I mean. + Show Spoiler +
Everybody is biased, Protoss players included. Keep trying to pick fights.
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On August 11 2011 13:19 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:06 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:58 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 12:44 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops? Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe. For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good. On August 11 2011 12:44 Flameling wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro. Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly. I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race. Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp? difficulty =/= balance Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units). As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range. Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance
Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts.
Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio.
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For me personally, I decided to play Protoss because I thought I'd have an easier time handling workers (you know, how you can get them back to mining right away after warping in a building) - keep in mind, this was before I learnt about queuing up commands with Shift...
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On August 11 2011 13:32 fadestep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:30 Eleaven wrote:On August 11 2011 13:27 fadestep wrote:On August 11 2011 13:19 Grampz wrote:
so many upset nerds in this thread that i cant even post my opinion without getting flamed by incoherent arguements. sad but thats the lick of these kinds of discussion threads Haters gonna hate. Why enjoy playing your own race when you can rage at other people for the race they play? Everybody plays the toughest, weakest race. Fact. Other than protoss players, you mean? No that's not what I mean. + Show Spoiler +Everybody is biased, Protoss players included. Keep trying to pick fights.
as a Zerg, i respect terran players.
As a protoss.. you respect? not even yourself..
+ Show Spoiler +
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Protoss is easy because it offers less options to perform APM intensive tasks and advanced multi tasking, such as drops and multi pronged attacks. wich is also why it is the weakest race.
Its way easier to drive a Vespa than a formula 1 car, buts also much slower and earns you less money.
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On August 11 2011 13:33 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:32 fadestep wrote:On August 11 2011 13:30 Eleaven wrote:On August 11 2011 13:27 fadestep wrote:On August 11 2011 13:19 Grampz wrote:
so many upset nerds in this thread that i cant even post my opinion without getting flamed by incoherent arguements. sad but thats the lick of these kinds of discussion threads Haters gonna hate. Why enjoy playing your own race when you can rage at other people for the race they play? Everybody plays the toughest, weakest race. Fact. Other than protoss players, you mean? No that's not what I mean. + Show Spoiler +Everybody is biased, Protoss players included. Keep trying to pick fights. as a Zerg, i respect terran players. As a protoss.. you respect? not even yourself.. + Show Spoiler +
The easiest thing to do in an argument like this is attempt to legitimize your bias by proving your not biased.
"Look man, I can beat up people for being Mexican if I want. It's not like I have problems with black people".
"Look man, I can spew retarded horseshit about Protoss if I want. I have respect for Terrans!".
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I can't believe the amount of misinformation and ridiculous accusations going on in here. This has turned into a letting of steam from losing to protoss thread. In all honesty all three races are pretty equal in terms of difficulty and how good each is. The game is actually pretty balanced even if you get frustrated but certain units/spells of each race.
I think that people get don't like playing against certain aspects of protoss such as their warpgate mechanic, sentry forcefields, and colossus. But each of these three aspects have their drawbacks that are probably overlooked. These are probably some of the biggest issues players have playing against protoss. I will try to defend protoss without attacking terran or zerg because it's too difficult to compare certain aspects of all the races as each race works as a whole.
Warpgates are good for instant reinforcements but remember this actually requires a proxy pylon to get up and warpins always take away from a micro battle because you have to click each unit that you need to warp in. Warpgates are impossible to que up units and during important battles macro often slips. Having units warping in near the battle is good but it's tough to not miss a warp in especially during a battle and also micro slips while warping in.
Forcefields are very good but Protoss needs them. Protoss lives and dies by the forcefield. Whether it's early game preventing a rush up the ramp or mid/late game zoning out roaches, this is one spell that is necessary for protoss to stay on par with the other races.
Colossi are very good and actually don't require much micro at all. However, their drawback is the player's vulnerability when they go for colossi. They aren't that good until a player gets about 4 of them with range. 1 robo facility, 1 robo bay, 4 Colossi, and range is a very expensive investment and there is a good timing they are more vulnerable to an attack before they get a good number on the field.
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On August 11 2011 13:32 sickle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:19 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 13:06 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:58 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 12:44 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops? Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe. For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good. On August 11 2011 12:44 Flameling wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro. Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly. I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race. Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp? difficulty =/= balance Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units). As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range. Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts. Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio.
Ok seriously stop pretending your special with needing to spread for emp please. Try not splitting and spreading marines vs Fungal and Banes Instant death or EMP. I would take EMP any day...
FF is the only thing you need to do with Colossi focused builds so why shouldn't they be required to be good if it's ALL you have to do micro wise?
Regardless every race has its strengths and weaknesses and this topic is stupid as fuck and should have been closed the moment it was opened nothing constructive is ever said in these threads it's always the exact same thing over and over and over.
/leavingandneverreturning
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Honestly I play all 3 races, I can say Protoss is the easiest. Lets look at an engagement PvZ and TvZ..
Scenario: Zerg has banelings. lings, mutas
Terran: Make sure tanks always sieged, focus fire banelings, spread marines
Protoss: Blink stalkers away, cast forceshields. If you're using collosi + sentries basically all u do is spam f and a attack
Which sounds harder?
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On August 11 2011 13:33 quiet noise wrote:
Protoss is easy because it offers less options to perform APM intensive tasks and advanced multi tasking, such as drops and multi pronged attacks. wich is also why it is the weakest race.
Its way easier to drive a Vespa than a formula 1 car, buts also much slower and earns you less money.
Good argument, because hotkeying a medivac and shift clicking requires a ton of skill right
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On August 11 2011 13:32 sickle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:19 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 13:06 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:58 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 12:44 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops? Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe. For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good. On August 11 2011 12:44 Flameling wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro. Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly. I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race. Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp? difficulty =/= balance Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units). As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range. Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts. Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio.
Due to lack of reading comphrension from you, I'll speak in a simpler way.
Missing ff in early game, bad
Missing ff in mid to late game, doesn't matter (you have a shitload of sentries, 1 forcefield won't make a difference)
spread casters away from each other in deathball, easy
But what really got me pissed is that last sentence. When the fuck did I say you should stop using sentries? It's you who is the fucking retard that said you don't have 10+ sentries because of "gas intensive units"
As for concaves, Protoss has it by far the easiest. Why's that?
Your units don't take serious splash damage from anything
Colossus have 9 Range
Do I have to go on are you going to keep trying to state your opinion against actual facts? Just look at what I said against why storms don't make a difference compared to micro errors from other races before you type "HURRR 1 STORM CAN COST YOU THE GAME OK???". Seriously, read my post again. Fucking retards like you make me so frustrated.
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this isn't a productive discussion. it's not even a discussion.
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On August 11 2011 13:37 tokicheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:32 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 13:19 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 13:06 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:58 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 12:44 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops? Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe. For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good. On August 11 2011 12:44 Flameling wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro. Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly. I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race. Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp? difficulty =/= balance Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units). As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range. Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts. Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio. Ok seriously stop pretending your special with needing to spread for emp please. Try not splitting and spreading marines vs Fungal and Banes Instant death or EMP. I would take EMP any day... FF is the only thing you need to do with Colossi focused builds so why shouldn't they be required to be good if it's ALL you have to do micro wise? Regardless every race has its strengths and weaknesses and this topic is stupid as fuck and should have been closed the moment it was opened nothing constructive is ever said in these threads it's always the exact same thing over and over and over. /leavingandneverreturning
I never said that protoss is the only race thats hard to play. Instead im arguing against an idiot who thinks that protoss can be won with by having one hand down your pants.
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On August 11 2011 13:37 tokicheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:32 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 13:19 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 13:06 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:58 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 12:44 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops? Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe. For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good. On August 11 2011 12:44 Flameling wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro. Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly. I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race. Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp? difficulty =/= balance Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units). As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range. Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts. Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio. Ok seriously stop pretending your special with needing to spread for emp please. Try not splitting and spreading marines vs Fungal and Banes Instant death or EMP. I would take EMP any day... FF is the only thing you need to do with Colossi focused builds so why shouldn't they be required to be good if it's ALL you have to do micro wise? Regardless every race has its strengths and weaknesses and this topic is stupid as fuck and should have been closed the moment it was opened nothing constructive is ever said in these threads it's always the exact same thing over and over and over. /leavingandneverreturning
Splitting marines against Zerg is far from necessary. You are supposed to have your tanks target fire the banelings. If your tanks are dead and your splitting marines against banes something has gone horribly wrong.
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On August 11 2011 13:37 tokicheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 13:32 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 13:19 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 13:06 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:58 Joey Wheeler wrote:On August 11 2011 12:44 sickle wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
You do realise that the entire protoss army is weak and relies on perfect ffs to be some-what effective. Tell me, how are ffs gonna save you from 3-pronged mm drops? Did you not see my (fclick fclick fclick). Perfect forcefields are fucking simple. Fclick in the middle of his unit ball and you're safe. For 3 pronged MMM drops you simply position your army well, make some cannons, and use something called "the warp in" function. I heard it's pretty good. On August 11 2011 12:44 Flameling wrote:On August 11 2011 12:39 Joey Wheeler wrote:
Protoss have an in-game map editor that takes much more micro from the other 2 races to prevent, while taking minimal micro to use from the Protoss. Early game relies on this simplistic spell. By midgame your prime aim is to mass up units and do a timing push (f click f click f click a click). Otherwise you expand and build up a deathball, which varies from (aclick fclick) to (aclick fclick tclick).
Protoss takes minimal micro, has the easiest and a forgiving macro mechanic, and has the entire strategy revolve around making a big ball of units, because they are the most efficient in the game.
In before some ignorant platinum league fuck tells me "if u turtle and make a ball u lose". Turtling and making a ball is agreed upon by the pros to be the best way to play. Look at Huk's PvZ, it's either timing pushes or getting a shitload of units and aclicking with them. And no, blink stalkers are not hard to micro.
What would you call "hard" micro? I don't find any other micro intensive unit in Terran and Zerg that's harder than blink micro. Something that can actually cost you the game if you make a mistake. Tanks being unsieged, marines not being spread well enough, getting trapped behind forcefields, Mutalisks not magic boxing, banelings inefficiently detonating, Infestors getting into range and dying instantly. I'm not talking about early game, any race apart from Terran have it hell early game (although fclicking is still pretty easy). but in the midgame to lategame there's nothing Protoss can do that can cost them the game instantly. Miss some forcefields? By this point you have about full energy 10+ sentries so you shouldn't be worried. And pressing B continuously, believe it or not, will not cost you the game if you don't do it fast enough (which is still easy as fuck). This is why Protoss is the relaxing race, and why it's considered the "casual" race. Like i said before, the protoss race is balanced on the assumption of perfect ffs, 1 missed ff and u lose. If godly perfect ffs are so easy and so overpowered how come protoss isn't dominating? Thats exactly of an example of a simple mistake that will cost you the game. 1 missed storm and you will lose the game. While only 1 emp that you did not dodge will make you unable to place down your 'perfect ffs' or storm, causing you to lose the game. And do you really think that sentries and hts have infinite range? They are even worse than the infestor to use. If you have 10 sentries means you don't have as much other gas-intensive units that u absolutely need in your army usch as collosus and hts. And a few emps will make your 1000 gas of sentries useless. So please tell me, whats so unforgiving about engaging as terran in tvp? difficulty =/= balance Perfect forcefields are easy, but they don't win you the game. Other races know how to deal with them (eg. on close position shattered temple zvp end the game before protoss has 5 sentries or using medivacs to lift units). As for your other complaints, 1 missed ff does not mean a loss. Please stop saying this bullshit. 1 missed storm also does not mean a loss, it simply means the engagement will be less effective for you. There's a difference between your losing half your MMM ball or you entire flock of mutas, compared to "losing a storm". Meanwhile if you think one EMP ends the game for you, well I heard spreading your units is pretty good. Although I'm sure that pre positioning before a battle might take a bit too much micro for the typical protoss. As for sentries cutting into your gas units... really? Have you never seen a typical 3gate sentry expand in ZvP? A shitload amount of sentries is not hard to get. Tier 1 Units don't take much of a commitment believe it or not! In fact it's completely standard to have so many sentries. Finally, one of your other ignorant statements is the range of forcefields and storms: Fungal Growth is 7 range for a full fungal. Force Fields and Storms are both 9 range. Oh and before I have to cringe again at one of these posts and actually wonder why I'm bothering to even argue... difficulty =/= balance Your ignorant if you think that missing a FF will never lose a protoss a game. And yes, a bad storm can also lose you a game. And man toss have it easy mode, they only need a perfect spread on their army so that single emp will not annihilate you. I'm talking about high-level protoss, where spreading is a must, and happens every fucking engagement. And if you don't sperad sufficiently, or have a slightly bad concave, you will lose the game to the a-moving mm ball after you've been emped by the multiple ghosts. Also of course you need fuckin sentries, I have no clue what your on about. Like I've been saying many times, they are the clutch behind the toss army without them we would have a 0% win ratio. Ok seriously stop pretending your special with needing to spread for emp please. Try not splitting and spreading marines vs Fungal and Banes Instant death or EMP. I would take EMP any day... FF is the only thing you need to do with Colossi focused builds so why shouldn't they be required to be good if it's ALL you have to do micro wise? Regardless every race has its strengths and weaknesses and this topic is stupid as fuck and should have been closed the moment it was opened nothing constructive is ever said in these threads it's always the exact same thing over and over and over. /leavingandneverreturning
Protoss aren't trying to pretend they are special. We aren't saying we are harder to play than any other race, just trying to get you fucking Zerg/Terran QQers to admit we aren't herp derp easy mode.
And yes, this thread is a joke. Makes me wish for the days before SC2 when you could have a thread like this and it wouldn't be a whole bunch of anonymous low level players angry at their latest loss to some shit they could have beaten with one hand tied behind their back if they knew how to play.
Discussions like this are no longer possible on TL. SC2 brought some cool people in, and some much needed numbers. Unfortunately, seems like most of those numbers are just deadweight.
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EPT
