On August 11 2011 14:05 KingFranX wrote: This thread should just be closed, because people get too defensive about their main race. Its natural, its like someone attacking your friend, you're probably going to defend them. It takes a real secure person to admit something that might damage his ego, kind of ironic because that type of person wouldn't really care about his ego.
People who attack Protoss have probably never played it seriously, and people who defend Protoss probably have never really played any of the other two races seriously, so any argument is considered void already, nevermind the bias factor
I was there going "Wow, this guy sounds quite reasonable, kind of a smartass assholish kinda guy but he has a point." then I see that it's the same guy that "play the 3 races" and uses ling/bling/mutas against protoss and says that Protoss is the easiest.
Then you spout such bullshit with a straight face. Seriously?
Lol honestly, I only used the bling analogy because its one of the only strats that I could think of that zerg would use vs both races. I mean no zerg really goes roach hydra anymore vs terran. And I don't know whats so odd about ling/bling/muta I see it all the time when I play ladder, or some combination. Either ling/bling/roach add infestors, overlord drops whatever. Its the main style I see these days
On August 11 2011 14:05 KingFranX wrote: People who attack Protoss have probably never played it seriously, and people who defend Protoss probably have never really played any of the other two races seriously, so any argument is considered void already, nevermind the bias factor
Translation: I make false assumptions and attempt to look unbiased
Which false assumption did I make? That people are biased towards their own race? I mean if we can't even agree on that, there is no discussion to be had
The assumption that everyone has only played one race seriously.
Yes, that's right, when you start playing a race you have to swear a sacred oath never to commit to playing another race.
On August 11 2011 13:59 TheRabidDeer wrote: am only diamond
There's your problem. I beat Protoss every game in Diamond by maxing on burrowed Roaches. Doesn't mean it's a legit strategy after a certain point.
So, how do you suggest a protoss deal with ling/bling/ultra/infestor? The only reason infestors are even needed is so you dont get kited, its not reliant on their damage.
Anyway, you are clearly better than everybody and you know all... so maybe we should all just bow to your superior knowledge and ability... even though you dont even say anything of merit.
storms for banelings feedback for infestors (no need to land many) archons for ultras
watch huk vs destiny on shakuras. Destiny maxes on the army you stated with only 40 drones and loses to a smaller supply Protoss army.
Sure is "unbeatable". And no I'm not complaining about imbalance, but saying this composition is unbeatable is just goddamn retarded.
Do you have a link to this game? Because I find it hard to believe it would lose, even with the composition you talk about. I imagine since it is a destiny game he probably had way too many infestors and not enough banelings/lings.
EDIT: Also, what are your qualifications? I wouldnt mind seeing your bnet profile, since you bash on diamonds pretty hard.
On August 11 2011 13:44 RedMorning wrote: Protoss, blink micro CAN be hard...but it is far from being the hardest. You know what's hard? Doing 2 drops then doing a marine split with your main army and then macroing up another army.
You know whats harder? Somehow defending against 2 drops, then dancing your army keeping a perfect spread, then perfect ffs, perfect storms, perfect blinks, while macroing up another army
Agreed, most people will agree (except for maybe terrans) that defending against drops is much harder than actually doing the drops. Unless your actually microing 2-3 drops at once somehow like mma (wich no one in this forum can do even most of the top pro's cant)
And even then it is really really difficult to defend against a multi pronged drop while the player is microing multiple drops.
On August 11 2011 14:05 KingFranX wrote: People who attack Protoss have probably never played it seriously, and people who defend Protoss probably have never really played any of the other two races seriously, so any argument is considered void already, nevermind the bias factor
Translation: I make false assumptions and attempt to look unbiased
Which false assumption did I make? That people are biased towards their own race? I mean if we can't even agree on that, there is no discussion to be had
The assumption that everyone has only played one race seriously.
Yes, that's right, when you start playing a race you have to swear a sacred oath never to commit to playing another race.
See, this is what I'm talking about. Why do you twist my words around, I said probably never played another race SERIOUSLY. Not some fuck around going to switch 1 day, I think its a valid point. Key words a probably and seriously. You turned it into "People who play protoss never played another race"
To be a bit serious is it really considered easier? Perhaps it is at lower levels due to a bit simpler macro mechanics, general effectiveness of 1aing and the number of easily executable cheeses that are effective at lower levels of play.
I doubt many people consider protoss easier to play at a pro level than any of the other races.
On August 11 2011 13:44 RedMorning wrote: Zerg requires the most macro (i.e., queens)
How are Queens any more macro-demanding than any other race's macro mechanics? Mentally executing these makes me think about this...
For chronoboost, I have to... 6-z-[clicktarget]
For queen, spawn larva I have to... space-4-x-[clickhatch]
For mule, I have to... 6-x-[clickminerals]
Arguably, Spawn larva takes one more key press and that's because of my personal hotkey set-up. On one base, I can execute the macro mechanics of each race with 2 key presses and a click.
Once you pass one base, each macro mechanic becomes slightly more difficult...
Chronoboost [targethotkey]-6-z-[click] (repeat for each target)
Spawn Larva space-4-x-[clickhatch] (repeat for each base)
Mule 6-x-[click minerals] (easy mode, dropping mules all on one base) I'm not very good with Terran, though. I assume if you wanted to play Terran at the highest level, spacing your Mules to preserve minerals is actually a useful thing, so it becomes a lot more than my pathetic 6-x-[click]. ;D
They all seem pretty equal to me, yet still interesting and unique. What is your reasoning for believing that spawn larva is more difficult? ^_^
I am not sure an argument relating to a races 'macro mechanic' is helping the cause. Being late on larvae injects can put you really far behind and there is no way to 'double inject'. If the protoss or terran misses the timing on mules or chronoboost, they can simply do it at a later time, or double mule.
Exactly. What's harder:
1) Injecting every hatchery on time everytime. Any misses can't be corrected. 2) Dropping mules/chronos. Misses can be corrected.
Zerg macro is the hardest by far...I don't even play Z as my main and I can easily admit to that.
On August 11 2011 13:59 TheRabidDeer wrote: am only diamond
There's your problem. I beat Protoss every game in Diamond by maxing on burrowed Roaches. Doesn't mean it's a legit strategy after a certain point.
So, how do you suggest a protoss deal with ling/bling/ultra/infestor? The only reason infestors are even needed is so you dont get kited, its not reliant on their damage.
Anyway, you are clearly better than everybody and you know all... so maybe we should all just bow to your superior knowledge and ability... even though you dont even say anything of merit.
storms for banelings feedback for infestors (no need to land many) archons for ultras
watch huk vs destiny on shakuras. Destiny maxes on the army you stated with only 40 drones and loses to a smaller supply Protoss army.
Sure is "unbeatable". And no I'm not complaining about imbalance, but saying this composition is unbeatable is just goddamn retarded.
Do you have a link to this game? Because I find it hard to believe it would lose, even with the composition you talk about. I imagine since it is a destiny game he probably had way too many infestors and not enough banelings/lings.
EDIT: Also, what are your qualifications? I wouldnt mind seeing your bnet profile, since you bash on diamonds pretty hard.
Banelings are missing but are instead replaced by multiple brood lords. Which in this scenario is better because banelings are for the low tier gateway units which HuK doesn't use to win. I also know the worker counts and such because it's was streamed on IPL and showed the unit counts.
As for my profile, let's not make this an epenis pissing contest
On August 11 2011 14:05 KingFranX wrote: People who attack Protoss have probably never played it seriously, and people who defend Protoss probably have never really played any of the other two races seriously, so any argument is considered void already, nevermind the bias factor
Translation: I make false assumptions and attempt to look unbiased
Which false assumption did I make? That people are biased towards their own race? I mean if we can't even agree on that, there is no discussion to be had
The assumption that everyone has only played one race seriously.
Yes, that's right, when you start playing a race you have to swear a sacred oath never to commit to playing another race.
See, this is what I'm talking about. Why do you twist my words around, I said probably never played another race SERIOUSLY. Not some fuck around going to switch 1 day, I think its a valid point. Key words a probably and seriously. You turned it into "People who play protoss never played another race"
"The assumption that every has only played one race seriously"
If i delete the protoss files from my game directory, will i stop getting matched up against them? fed up of 7 minute games of "guess the all in" or 20 minute games of "how to crack a 30 apm nut"
On August 11 2011 13:44 RedMorning wrote: Zerg requires the most macro (i.e., queens)
How are Queens any more macro-demanding than any other race's macro mechanics? Mentally executing these makes me think about this...
For chronoboost, I have to... 6-z-[clicktarget]
For queen, spawn larva I have to... space-4-x-[clickhatch]
For mule, I have to... 6-x-[clickminerals]
Arguably, Spawn larva takes one more key press and that's because of my personal hotkey set-up. On one base, I can execute the macro mechanics of each race with 2 key presses and a click.
Once you pass one base, each macro mechanic becomes slightly more difficult...
Chronoboost [targethotkey]-6-z-[click] (repeat for each target)
Spawn Larva space-4-x-[clickhatch] (repeat for each base)
Mule 6-x-[click minerals] (easy mode, dropping mules all on one base) I'm not very good with Terran, though. I assume if you wanted to play Terran at the highest level, spacing your Mules to preserve minerals is actually a useful thing, so it becomes a lot more than my pathetic 6-x-[click]. ;D
They all seem pretty equal to me, yet still interesting and unique. What is your reasoning for believing that spawn larva is more difficult? ^_^
Two quick points: 1. Zerg has more bases -> more times must perform the macro mechanic. 2. Zerg can't "multi-inject" to catch up with missed injects, while terrans easily multi-mule, and protoss to a great extent can make use of multi-chrono. I'm not saying Zerg is more difficult in general, only answering your specific question about the queens.
On August 11 2011 14:05 KingFranX wrote: This thread should just be closed, because people get too defensive about their main race. Its natural, its like someone attacking your friend, you're probably going to defend them. It takes a real secure person to admit something that might damage his ego, kind of ironic because that type of person wouldn't really care about his ego.
People who attack Protoss have probably never played it seriously, and people who defend Protoss probably have never really played any of the other two races seriously, so any argument is considered void already, nevermind the bias factor
I was there going "Wow, this guy sounds quite reasonable, kind of a smartass assholish kinda guy but he has a point." then I see that it's the same guy that "play the 3 races" and uses ling/bling/mutas against protoss and says that Protoss is the easiest.
Then you spout such bullshit with a straight face. Seriously?
Lol honestly, I only used the bling analogy because its one of the only strats that I could think of that zerg would use vs both races. I mean no zerg really goes roach hydra anymore vs terran. And I don't know whats so odd about ling/bling/muta I see it all the time when I play ladder, or some combination. Either ling/bling/roach add infestors, overlord drops whatever. Its the main style I see these days
You probably meant "roach hydra against protoss", but at this point I can see that you're just confused and disoriented about Starcraft 2. Playing this game sure is not easy sometimes right? baneling or banelings drops whatever, infestors or mutas, that's the same, amirite, bro?
It takes a real secure person to admit something that might damage his ego, kind of ironic because that type of person wouldn't really care about his ego.
But in the middle of all that, you can allow yourself to act all high and mighty and judge other people. Thank you for that piece of advanced psychology, really.
Well, let's move on, but try to type less random words to make your sentences. Unlike Starcraft 2, "some combination" of words just doesn't cut it.
On August 11 2011 14:10 ETisME wrote: because it is harder. You miss one injection, the consequence is much higher than missing a boost or mule. This doesn't get more merciful in late game too, if you miss a mule or boost, you can mass boost and mule for immediate effect but if you miss an injection, you are going to have a much smaller reinforcement and can cost you the game.
o__o That wasn't my point, but o-k...this is an entirely different argument.
Why is the player missing injections? For unit production, that's like a Protoss missing a warp-gate cycle or a Terran forgetting to queue any units. You're attributing player mistakes to the races.
Annyway, off course defending against drops is way harder then doing the drops yourself even this terran with his bronze brain can see that. Dropping is send and forget, and then stim when you land and a move the hatch or spire if you lucky you can pick up your drop and hide at a free area just behind the mineral line to come back 1-2 minutes later, if it gets shot down its to bad but not realy a big loss either defending is difficult because your army will often be at least slightly out of position
The biggest difference is that when you dropping you know that you are going to drop and you are just executing what you already did plan in your head when you defending against a drop its different, it often comes unexpected in time and place and the plan you had in your head for things to do the next minute you have to change
all this is not relevant to annything btw, and i definatly dont want to say that this makes the dropping side the easier side, dropping is just one of the thousends of things you can do in this game
*facepalm* You guys take things to seriously. As for all the players who think I don't know shit about the game, pm me your Bnet on the Euro or NA server and we can have some fun . I won't be able to play till after Aug 20th since I am away, but I mean it useless for me to be like oh I am actually pretty good, so if it matters to you at all just shoot me a message
On August 11 2011 13:59 TheRabidDeer wrote: am only diamond
There's your problem. I beat Protoss every game in Diamond by maxing on burrowed Roaches. Doesn't mean it's a legit strategy after a certain point.
So, how do you suggest a protoss deal with ling/bling/ultra/infestor? The only reason infestors are even needed is so you dont get kited, its not reliant on their damage.
Anyway, you are clearly better than everybody and you know all... so maybe we should all just bow to your superior knowledge and ability... even though you dont even say anything of merit.
storms for banelings feedback for infestors (no need to land many) archons for ultras
watch huk vs destiny on shakuras. Destiny maxes on the army you stated with only 40 drones and loses to a smaller supply Protoss army.
Sure is "unbeatable". And no I'm not complaining about imbalance, but saying this composition is unbeatable is just goddamn retarded.
Do you have a link to this game? Because I find it hard to believe it would lose, even with the composition you talk about. I imagine since it is a destiny game he probably had way too many infestors and not enough banelings/lings.
EDIT: Also, what are your qualifications? I wouldnt mind seeing your bnet profile, since you bash on diamonds pretty hard.
Banelings are missing but are instead replaced by multiple brood lords. Which in this scenario is better because banelings are for the low tier gateway units which HuK doesn't use to win. I also know the worker counts and such because it's was streamed on IPL and showed the unit counts.
As for my profile, let's not make this an epenis pissing contest
So it is that game. That is nothing like the composition that I am talking about. Destiny's zerg is very heavy on harass and late game and very little about brute force. He gets a lot of infestors to delay, deal bits of damage, do hit and runs and other things. He doesnt get them as a pure damage source in most cases. Also, the time in which he gets brood lords is just too late, by the time he reaches just an expansion of HuK, he already has a chunk of VR's out in addition to him attacking at the worst possible angle with the dragoon v2 (ultralisk), 90% of his ground army isnt even engaging HuK.
I am telling you, without a doubt, if you just TRY it, ling/bling/ultralisk raaaaaaapppppeeeeeesssssss protoss. Like 5-6 ultras, like 70 cracklings and 50 banelings. Attack move in and you will pretty much win (assuming no tiny choke, engage in the open as much as you can). If you are worried about them microing away too much, throw in 2 infestors and fungal when you engage.
As for your profile, how can you call out wrecking diamond protoss constantly with burrow roaches and then not defend your statement with a simple profile link? You attack me for being in diamond, but are not able to defend your statement?
On August 11 2011 14:10 ETisME wrote: because it is harder. You miss one injection, the consequence is much higher than missing a boost or mule. This doesn't get more merciful in late game too, if you miss a mule or boost, you can mass boost and mule for immediate effect but if you miss an injection, you are going to have a much smaller reinforcement and can cost you the game.
o__o That wasn't my point, but o-k...this is an entirely different argument.
Why is the player missing injections? For unit production, that's like a Protoss missing a warp-gate cycle or a Terran forgetting to queue any units. You're attributing player mistakes to the races.
Well mostly high level zergs usually don't forget to inject. They do choose to do so sometimes. Injecting takes a lot of screen time(which is proportional to the number of bases you have) therefore you need to choose - if you'r under attack - do you inject, or do you micro your infestors?
On August 11 2011 13:59 TheRabidDeer wrote: am only diamond
There's your problem. I beat Protoss every game in Diamond by maxing on burrowed Roaches. Doesn't mean it's a legit strategy after a certain point.
So, how do you suggest a protoss deal with ling/bling/ultra/infestor? The only reason infestors are even needed is so you dont get kited, its not reliant on their damage.
Anyway, you are clearly better than everybody and you know all... so maybe we should all just bow to your superior knowledge and ability... even though you dont even say anything of merit.
storms for banelings feedback for infestors (no need to land many) archons for ultras
watch huk vs destiny on shakuras. Destiny maxes on the army you stated with only 40 drones and loses to a smaller supply Protoss army.
Sure is "unbeatable". And no I'm not complaining about imbalance, but saying this composition is unbeatable is just goddamn retarded.
Do you have a link to this game? Because I find it hard to believe it would lose, even with the composition you talk about. I imagine since it is a destiny game he probably had way too many infestors and not enough banelings/lings.
EDIT: Also, what are your qualifications? I wouldnt mind seeing your bnet profile, since you bash on diamonds pretty hard.
Banelings are missing but are instead replaced by multiple brood lords. Which in this scenario is better because banelings are for the low tier gateway units which HuK doesn't use to win. I also know the worker counts and such because it's was streamed on IPL and showed the unit counts.
As for my profile, let's not make this an epenis pissing contest
So it is that game. That is nothing like the composition that I am talking about. Destiny's zerg is very heavy on harass and late game and very little about brute force. He gets a lot of infestors to delay, deal bits of damage, do hit and runs and other things. He doesnt get them as a pure damage source in most cases. Also, the time in which he gets brood lords is just too late, by the time he reaches just an expansion of HuK, he already has a chunk of VR's out in addition to him attacking at the worst possible angle with the dragoon v2 (ultralisk), 90% of his ground army isnt even engaging HuK.
I am telling you, without a doubt, if you just TRY it, ling/bling/ultralisk raaaaaaapppppeeeeeesssssss protoss. Like 5-6 ultras, like 70 cracklings and 50 banelings. Attack move in and you will pretty much win (assuming no tiny choke, engage in the open as much as you can). If you are worried about them microing away too much, throw in 2 infestors and fungal when you engage.
As for your profile, how can you call out wrecking diamond protoss constantly with burrow roaches and then not defend your statement with a simple profile link? You attack me for being in diamond, but are not able to defend your statement?
I stopped reading after I realized you didn't watch the game.
On August 11 2011 14:10 ETisME wrote: because it is harder. You miss one injection, the consequence is much higher than missing a boost or mule. This doesn't get more merciful in late game too, if you miss a mule or boost, you can mass boost and mule for immediate effect but if you miss an injection, you are going to have a much smaller reinforcement and can cost you the game.
o__o That wasn't my point, but o-k...this is an entirely different argument.
Why is the player missing injections? For unit production, that's like a Protoss missing a warp-gate cycle or a Terran forgetting to queue any units. You're attributing player mistakes to the races.
because it isn't about spamming hotkeys to make sure the units are coming out constantly (or looking at that mini icon for warp gate cycle)
I think you should play zerg and see how it works. Unless you hotkey individual hatchery, you cannot see the larva spawn progress, meaning that every so often, you would want to do a base cycle to check how long until the larva is spawn and if you need to inject soon. Some pro will line up the injection timing but it only works with 3 bases the most (I caught this in Idra's replay), eventually most would have to throw down a macro hatchery.
attributing player mistakes to the races certainly is a thing that cannot be ignored, because no one plays perfect injection/mule/chrono in an equally skilled match. But injection is the most punishing for sure.
EPT
