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On August 11 2011 11:08 CCupcakeDyran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 11:04 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 11:00 The KY wrote:On August 11 2011 10:56 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 10:44 iChau wrote:
When you get out of bronze, try blinking back hurt stalkers while macroing with warpgates, kk? Ok you try queueing up your units nonstop without missing a beat while kiting the protoss army, spreading your bio and getting good emp off all the while microing the vikings so they all focus on the same colossus. Ok this is just ridiculous now. Go back to the b.net forums with this kind of 'HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY EXTENDED LIST OF THINGS I HAVE TO DO TO WIN, HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY SHORTENED LIST OF THING YOU HAVE TO DO TO WIN, SEE HOW MUCH HARDER IT IS FOR ME WITH MY CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY BIASED DESCRIPTIONS OF THE GAME' bullshit. Seriously. This doesn't belong here. Alright then please do explain me what else does a protoss need to do beside getting good Storm/FF off to win a big engagement. Go try and A move a max terran army bio against a max protoss army with a good amount of colossus without either of them being micro'd and tell me who win. Terran simply has to work more against HTS/chargelot or Colossus based army to win the battle. Why would you ever go heavy bio against a colossus based army anyway? Terran has tanks. The siege unit with the longest ground attack range in the game. You know, those things that kill Colo really damn fast if you know what focus fire is.
...nah tanks are bad against colossus + gateway armies. Colossus and tanks essentially fill the same role in that match up, the difference is that tanks have to take the time to siege and the colossus can just ball around, making you incredibly immobile in a matchup where mobility is key, if they die they take fucking ages to rebuild, immortals utterly destroy them...there's a reason very very few people use tanks in TvP.
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I would also like to point out that while you're here rambling about Protoss being so ez and OP, it's also the most active community in the Strategy section of this forum. Look at all those "PvX" builds, guides that are regularly at the top of discussions:
[G] Safe PvP - Defensive 3 Gate
[G] QTIP’s guide to defending the 1-1-1 (PvT)
[G]HuK! PvT 20food 1gate FE
[G] PVP: Robo twilight
All of those aim for the longer game or the safe play.
Now look at some terran TvP guides in this section:
[G] StimmedProbe's TvP 1-1-1 All-in/Contain
[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball"
[G] (T) 3 racks : Cheesing your way to GM league
Which are all some kind of allinnish timing attacks. So who is abusing the easy race now? Who is aiming to just ez-cheese their way to master?
On that topic, Zerg is more of a reactive race and the least proned to cheese imo, except economically (which you must prevent), so there is obviously a lesser amount of pre-made build.
(While I admit that this message is a bit trollish (which actually quite fits this thread honestly), you must admit that there are way less "[G] Super Ultimate PvX free win to GM" threads that there are terran ones...and Geiko the author of the infamous 3rax is actually a protoss player who also make good P guides...)
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On August 11 2011 10:47 xHassassin wrote:
Protoss is ridiculously easy to play when you're bad. Bad macro? No problem, add more gateways than you should. Money stays low. Opponent not aggroing? Build colossus deathball, cannot be defeated.
It's once you get into the higher levels that protoss starts to become more balanced with the other races.
Also it takes 3 marines or 5 zerglings to kill 1 zealot.
I don't even know where to start here. Let's just keep it concise and say that everything that you've just written is wrong except for the fact that overbuilding gateways compensates for bad macro (though I don't know how this is any different from overbuilding production facilities for any other race).
Acting like an authority when you've got the understanding of the race that someone in silver league does isn't productive.
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It's probably more considered the easiest race below masters level, because we all know that all you need to get to diamond is good macro - Protoss has the most simple and streamlined (EZ) macro setup out of the 3 races, not that terran is far behind. You don't have o be any good at toss micro in diamond and below because you just macro better and make a bigger a-move army. It only really matters in masters and above, where players are less seperated by macro and more by micro and decision making.
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protoss is a joke, literally only idiots play it
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I noticed on the first page, someone said Protoss have the lowest winrate.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-anaheim-sc2-stats/
Stats from MLG Anaheim.
These stats actually include the number of players in each race, which is fairly equal.
The other chart from Korean tournaments is SOOOO flawed. No total number of players for each race, and we all know Terrans run Korea.
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On August 11 2011 10:56 Phemtos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 10:44 iChau wrote:
When you get out of bronze, try blinking back hurt stalkers while macroing with warpgates, kk? Ok you try queueing up your units nonstop without missing a beat while kiting the protoss army, spreading your bio and getting good emp off all the while microing the vikings so they all focus on the same colossus.
lol @ the bold part
I see you're new, I guess you don't realize that people don't like balance discussion on this website, especially when it is insulting, misguided, small-minded, and retarded.
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Canada163 Posts
On August 11 2011 11:09 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 11:04 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 11:00 The KY wrote:On August 11 2011 10:56 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 10:44 iChau wrote:
When you get out of bronze, try blinking back hurt stalkers while macroing with warpgates, kk? Ok you try queueing up your units nonstop without missing a beat while kiting the protoss army, spreading your bio and getting good emp off all the while microing the vikings so they all focus on the same colossus. Ok this is just ridiculous now. Go back to the b.net forums with this kind of 'HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY EXTENDED LIST OF THINGS I HAVE TO DO TO WIN, HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY SHORTENED LIST OF THING YOU HAVE TO DO TO WIN, SEE HOW MUCH HARDER IT IS FOR ME WITH MY CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY BIASED DESCRIPTIONS OF THE GAME' bullshit. Seriously. This doesn't belong here. Alright then please do explain me what else does a protoss need to do beside getting good Storm/FF off to win a big engagement. Go try and A move a max terran army bio against a max protoss army with a good amount of colossus without either of them being micro'd and tell me who win. Terran simply has to work more against HTS/chargelot or Colossus based army to win the battle. You know what? NO. I'm not going to explain to you each individual piece of micro that every race has to pull off. Because that's what balance whining children do, on the b.net forums. If you are one of those people, PLEASE, go back there. Go back a couple of your posts. You say that you have to get off a good EMP or you're dead. Ok. But then you say all protoss has to do is get off good storm and ff...can you seriously not see how fucking blinded you are by bias? Why is that so easy for them but so hard for you? I guarantee you if you played protoss you'd be saying 'all terran has to do is get off one good EMP and my super expensive ht's are useless'. FYI I play terran 75%, protoss 25%. Please try PvT some time, enjoy losing to MMM a dozen times in a row. Until then shut up about how hard everything is for you.
Warpgate is easier to use then having to constantly queue up units into production building without missing a beat, I don't think anyone would argue about that. Alright take out the emp/ff/storm of the battle and tell me which of the two army has more action that need to be done in order to win. A protoss need to put his zealot in the front which is just positionning before the battle and focus the marine with his colossus and focus the vikings with his stalker. A terran need to spread his army so it doesn't get destroyed by the colossus aoe and has to kite the chargelot and focus each colosssus with his vikings. Now tell me which has more action in a battle that need to be done in order for them to win.
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Some things i find easier with protoss is not having to deal with rally points that much, reactor/tech lab addons, injects/creep spread and building anything you need with 1 probe. Oh and expansion defense i found the easiest, terran gota decide between an orbital and planetary with missile turrets, zerg gota sack drones for expo defense which is annoying, where protoss can shift click 6 cannons and be set. This all of course has nothing to do with current balance with protoss sucking atm, regardless if they suck or not the macro department is alot easier than the other 2 races.
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On August 11 2011 11:13 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 11:08 CCupcakeDyran wrote:On August 11 2011 11:04 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 11:00 The KY wrote:On August 11 2011 10:56 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 10:44 iChau wrote:
When you get out of bronze, try blinking back hurt stalkers while macroing with warpgates, kk? Ok you try queueing up your units nonstop without missing a beat while kiting the protoss army, spreading your bio and getting good emp off all the while microing the vikings so they all focus on the same colossus. Ok this is just ridiculous now. Go back to the b.net forums with this kind of 'HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY EXTENDED LIST OF THINGS I HAVE TO DO TO WIN, HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY SHORTENED LIST OF THING YOU HAVE TO DO TO WIN, SEE HOW MUCH HARDER IT IS FOR ME WITH MY CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY BIASED DESCRIPTIONS OF THE GAME' bullshit. Seriously. This doesn't belong here. Alright then please do explain me what else does a protoss need to do beside getting good Storm/FF off to win a big engagement. Go try and A move a max terran army bio against a max protoss army with a good amount of colossus without either of them being micro'd and tell me who win. Terran simply has to work more against HTS/chargelot or Colossus based army to win the battle. Why would you ever go heavy bio against a colossus based army anyway? Terran has tanks. The siege unit with the longest ground attack range in the game. You know, those things that kill Colo really damn fast if you know what focus fire is. ...nah tanks are bad against colossus + gateway armies. Colossus and tanks essentially fill the same role in that match up, the difference is that tanks have to take the time to siege and the colossus can just ball around, making you incredibly immobile in a matchup where mobility is key, if they die they take fucking ages to rebuild, immortals utterly destroy them...there's a reason very very few people use tanks in TvP.
That's weird. I usually just spread them out and have some vikings around to help snipe colo. And it usually works out for me. It's all in the positioning and making sure you're not unsieged when you engage, IMO.
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I play Terran, and I think protoss is easier because of simpler macro. Like, zerg have to spread creep and inject larva constantly. Since protoss units are more expensive, protoss players spend less time making units. I know it's not a lot, but it adds up. Finally, the protoss death ball is so powerful all together, whereas terran and zerg rely a lot more on positioning, so it's easier for protoss to attack. Just my opinion.
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On August 11 2011 11:17 dar5283 wrote:I noticed on the first page, someone said Protoss have the lowest winrate. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-anaheim-sc2-stats/Stats from MLG Anaheim. These stats actually include the number of players in each race, which is fairly equal. The other chart from Korean tournaments is SOOOO flawed. No total number of players for each race, and we all know Terrans run Korea.
So look at the international one?
http://i.imgur.com/uaVuw.png
20.000 games beat a couple of hundreds when it comes to statistics, any day.
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On August 11 2011 11:18 Phemtos wrote:
Warpgate is easier to use then having to constantly queue up units into production building without missing a beat, I don't think anyone would argue about that.
They're essentially the same thing, the only difference is that you go 4aaaadddd, and the protoss goes double tap 6 (proxy pylon)W, S,click,S,click,S,click,Z,click,Zclick,Zclick. Also, you can't queue warpgates. So you are essentially making an argument out of something petty (my making of units is harder than your making of units), but your petty argument is wrong. Nice work. Go back to Bnet.
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On August 11 2011 11:18 CCupcakeDyran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 11:13 The KY wrote:On August 11 2011 11:08 CCupcakeDyran wrote:On August 11 2011 11:04 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 11:00 The KY wrote:On August 11 2011 10:56 Phemtos wrote:On August 11 2011 10:44 iChau wrote:
When you get out of bronze, try blinking back hurt stalkers while macroing with warpgates, kk? Ok you try queueing up your units nonstop without missing a beat while kiting the protoss army, spreading your bio and getting good emp off all the while microing the vikings so they all focus on the same colossus. Ok this is just ridiculous now. Go back to the b.net forums with this kind of 'HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY EXTENDED LIST OF THINGS I HAVE TO DO TO WIN, HERE IS A PURPOSEFULLY SHORTENED LIST OF THING YOU HAVE TO DO TO WIN, SEE HOW MUCH HARDER IT IS FOR ME WITH MY CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY BIASED DESCRIPTIONS OF THE GAME' bullshit. Seriously. This doesn't belong here. Alright then please do explain me what else does a protoss need to do beside getting good Storm/FF off to win a big engagement. Go try and A move a max terran army bio against a max protoss army with a good amount of colossus without either of them being micro'd and tell me who win. Terran simply has to work more against HTS/chargelot or Colossus based army to win the battle. Why would you ever go heavy bio against a colossus based army anyway? Terran has tanks. The siege unit with the longest ground attack range in the game. You know, those things that kill Colo really damn fast if you know what focus fire is. ...nah tanks are bad against colossus + gateway armies. Colossus and tanks essentially fill the same role in that match up, the difference is that tanks have to take the time to siege and the colossus can just ball around, making you incredibly immobile in a matchup where mobility is key, if they die they take fucking ages to rebuild, immortals utterly destroy them...there's a reason very very few people use tanks in TvP. That's weird. I usually just spread them out and have some vikings around to help snipe colo. And it usually works out for me. It's all in the positioning and making sure you're not unsieged when you engage, IMO.
That's true, but chargelots and immortals can still do insane dmg when they just charge tanks.
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On August 11 2011 11:21 infinitum wrote:
I play Terran, and I think protoss is easier because of simpler macro. Like, zerg have to spread creep and inject larva constantly. Since protoss units are more expensive, protoss players spend less time making units. I know it's not a lot, but it adds up. Finally, the protoss death ball is so powerful all together, whereas terran and zerg rely a lot more on positioning, so it's easier for protoss to attack. Just my opinion.
It's always so obvious who didn't play Brood War. If you think that macro in this game is hard or that it's the determinant between which race is easier at high level playing then I don't know what to say.
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On August 11 2011 11:22 ribboo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 11:17 dar5283 wrote:I noticed on the first page, someone said Protoss have the lowest winrate. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-anaheim-sc2-stats/Stats from MLG Anaheim. These stats actually include the number of players in each race, which is fairly equal. The other chart from Korean tournaments is SOOOO flawed. No total number of players for each race, and we all know Terrans run Korea. So look at the international one? http://i.imgur.com/uaVuw.png20.000 games beat a couple of hundreds when it comes to statistics, any day.
no. chimps can be masters with protoss
murder every protoss player in real life and the world will be a better place, we'd probably cure cancer within hours
User was warned for this post
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On August 11 2011 11:14 ZenithM wrote:
I would also like to point out that while you're here rambling about Protoss being so ez and OP, it's also the most active community in the Strategy section of this forum. Look at all those "PvX" builds, guides that are regularly at the top of discussions:
[G] Safe PvP - Defensive 3 Gate
[G] QTIP’s guide to defending the 1-1-1 (PvT)
[G]HuK! PvT 20food 1gate FE
[G] PVP: Robo twilight
All of those aim for the longer game or the safe play.
Now look at some terran TvP guides in this section:
[G] StimmedProbe's TvP 1-1-1 All-in/Contain
[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball"
[G] (T) 3 racks : Cheesing your way to GM league
Which are all some kind of allinnish timing attacks. So who is abusing the easy race now? Who is aiming to just ez-cheese their way to master?
On that topic, Zerg is more of a reactive race and the least proned to cheese imo, except economically (which you must prevent), so there is obviously a lesser amount of pre-made build.
(While I admit that this message is a bit trollish (which actually quite fits this thread honestly), you must admit that there are way less "[G] Super Ultimate PvX free win to GM" threads that there are terran ones...and Geiko the author of the infamous 3rax is actually a protoss player who also make good P guides...)
You should actually read the guides. PvP is matchup that revolves around low Eco so saying it reaches for the long game is kind of a dumb point . The huk build is pretty much a cute 4gate (cut tons of probes but have nexus if it fails). As for the 111 guides , it's a big issue right now so ofcourse both sides will talk about it. The warden tvp is kind of a macro build , which only allins in specific situations where the Protoss is greedy. The 3rax build is a really dumb build that only kinda works vs Zerg, and shouldn't get any attention but somehow it does.
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On August 11 2011 11:12 PopcornColonel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 09:46 ZAiNs wrote:On August 11 2011 09:25 grobo wrote:On August 11 2011 09:23 GoKu` wrote:
everyone thinks their race is the hardest to play. That is usually how these topics / ideas get started. How do you explain the opinions of us random players? You probably think random is the hardest. Nah, Zerg is the hardest. Random is the most fun though ^^
Funny, Zerg is the one race that is underrepresented in the lower leagues (Gold-Bronze). Most Zerg players are either platinum or higher. Statisticly, Zerg players are higher in league and rank standing than protoss and terran. Kinda denies the "Zerg is the hardest race to play"-myth, since if Zerg was so hard to play as you claiming, more zerg players would be stuck in the lower league.
What makes Zerg a hard race? is it the micro-friendly unit compoistions that work well with 1A (unless you bring in some infestors)? is it the simplified macro system where everything is built from one building with stacking larvae that doesnt require you to add production facilities to increase your production (other than the occasional macro hatchery)?
i dont think so.
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At the beginning of release and even during beta, you could win almost every game with 4gate.
Shit has changed though, imo.
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On August 11 2011 11:24 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 11:21 infinitum wrote:
I play Terran, and I think protoss is easier because of simpler macro. Like, zerg have to spread creep and inject larva constantly. Since protoss units are more expensive, protoss players spend less time making units. I know it's not a lot, but it adds up. Finally, the protoss death ball is so powerful all together, whereas terran and zerg rely a lot more on positioning, so it's easier for protoss to attack. Just my opinion. It's always so obvious who didn't play Brood War. If you think that macro in this game is hard or that it's the determinant between which race is easier at high level playing then I don't know what to say.
good argument, whats your point?
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EPT
