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You you never made a argument that SC2 couldn't be a E-Sport, you just said "okai so infestors imba sentries imba ghosts imba all because 1 mechanic of the game, okay so fix that the they arn't imba."
Also to add to above: This is already a HUGE ESPORT primarily due to a couple of things:
- Automated things still require you to have to micro against it, keeping some level of skill
For example: if you cast fungal growth the persons fault for not splitting is theres
- Starcraft 2 is still young
Do you know how long it took to figure out muta's could stack? And this is just one of the crazy mechanics that the game didn't create but that someone had to FIND
and the list could go on.
So I'd say we are just fine. We haven't gotten to HotS/LoV yet so who knows what crazy mechanic that Browder will introduce to make people find. I've always given Blizzard credit and I wont stop now. Just enjoy the game, Enjoy the community, and who cares if it is a great game for ESPORT or not. As long as you have fun it doesn't matter. And if you don't have fun then you can quit playing.
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Certainly, I don't feel like there are some unit control/strategies that the pros can do that i just cannot execute just as well.
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On July 29 2011 18:05 Shaetan wrote:
What is smart casting? Not having to select an individual unit to cast it?
Not quite. Normal AI: If you give an order to a group of units, each individual unit attempts to follow that order.
Smartcasting: if you give an spellcasting order to a group of units, the AI selects one to carry it out, and ONLY issues the order to THAT unit.
This is very convenient for spells that don't stack well, like Fungal, EMP, and Storm, but because it's so easy to carpet an area with those spells, the spells themselves are nerfed to compensate.
It's also a pain in the ass for summoning Infested Terrans, since you only get one IT per click.
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LOL! So I wanted to just post a few of the OPs recent TL posts for lulz:
My changes would be pretty radical in that I would remove banelings and replace them with lurkers and rebalance inject larva mechanic.
Yeah this map is imba as it can be. Really bad map design.
Why doesn't Blizzard just use community maps, like IcCup and GSL maps? They would also save a bit on resources and actually use Kim and Matt to actually balance the game and not create imba maps.
Destiny winning no surprise for me there. Watch this next MLG how every Zerg from good to mediocre post great results and then we can hopefully have people admit that Zerg is imbalanced.
[Why are there so few terrans in higher leagues]
Because terran is the hardest race to play.
I think he's having a hard time TvZ and TvP right now, let's just cut him some slack. lol. 
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Well he has a valid point, a point that was brought up a lot before SC2 beta with that long MBS, auto-mining discussion and all of that. My opinion back then still stands now, all these easy mechanics are making SC2 a boring game and not as exciting to watch. I don't think new SC players realize just how much more interesting SC2 as an esport could have been, instead we settle for big a-move fights with deathballs a bit of autocast elements (which gets boring after a while). However, beginners and casual players would not have liked it this way so Blizzard simply could not do it and we instead end up with a middle solution which is much more casual friendly but also much less exciting as an esport. It's a sacrifice Blizzard did.
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On July 29 2011 18:16 untilMay wrote:
You you never made a argument that SC2 couldn't be a E-Sport, you just said "okai so infestors imba sentries imba ghosts imba all because 1 mechanic of the game, okay so fix that the they arn't imba."
Also to add to above: This is already a HUGE ESPORT primarily due to a couple of things:
- Automated things still require you to have to micro against it, keeping some level of skill
For example: if you cast fungal growth the persons fault for not splitting is theres
- Starcraft 2 is still young
Do you know how long it took to figure out muta's could stack? And this is just one of the crazy mechanics that the game didn't create but that someone had to FIND
and the list could go on.
So I'd say we are just fine. We haven't gotten to HotS/LoV yet so who knows what crazy mechanic that Browder will introduce to make people find. I've always given Blizzard credit and I wont stop now. Just enjoy the game, Enjoy the community, and who cares if it is a great game for ESPORT or not. As long as you have fun it doesn't matter. And if you don't have fun then you can quit playing.
Well to tell you the truth because I hate how all commentators and current SC2 players make it sound so hard and difficult.
I mean you'll see Incontrol, HDstarcraft, Day9, etc... all going omg perfect storms, omg such amazing fungal growth destroying the whole terran army when its not one bit hard or exciting to do.
I mean its like watching workers being put to mine in SC1 and even that was so much harder and one could argue exciting.
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I'll ignore all the dumb answers on this thread. It's like people just don't read the OP and flame. It's like bnet's forums.
Anyway, I disagree with the OP. I mean, as far as i understood, OP says the game needs to be more challenging in order to grow more as an e-sport. And one way to make it more challenging would be to remove smart-casting. Did I get it right ?
Saying it would make the game more exciting or more likeable from a player perspective is debatable. Has anything happened in SC2 that would require blizzard to make the game more challenging to execute ? OP bring the things like this is what SC2 needs. It isn't. At least not right now.
Should the skill ceiling be raised higher, this is not something we have to discuss on a 1 year old game, especially with HotS and LotV not even out yet. If the game needs to be more challenging in order to grow as an e-sport, you don't have to emphasize the mechanical aspect of the game. You can just as well emphasize the tactical aspect of the game.
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On July 29 2011 18:19 DueSs wrote:LOL! So I wanted to just post a few of the OPs recent TL posts for lulz: Show nested quote +My changes would be pretty radical in that I would remove banelings and replace them with lurkers and rebalance inject larva mechanic. Show nested quote +Yeah this map is imba as it can be. Really bad map design.
Why doesn't Blizzard just use community maps, like IcCup and GSL maps? They would also save a bit on resources and actually use Kim and Matt to actually balance the game and not create imba maps. Show nested quote +Destiny winning no surprise for me there. Watch this next MLG how every Zerg from good to mediocre post great results and then we can hopefully have people admit that Zerg is imbalanced. Show nested quote + [Why are there so few terrans in higher leagues]
Because terran is the hardest race to play. I think he's having a hard time TvZ and TvP right now, let's just cut him some slack. lol.
Mystery solved folks, it was a disguised infestor whine.
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On July 29 2011 18:17 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 18:05 Shaetan wrote:
What is smart casting? Not having to select an individual unit to cast it? Not quite. Normal AI: If you give an order to a group of units, each individual unit attempts to follow that order. Smartcasting: if you give an spellcasting order to a group of units, the AI selects one to carry it out, and ONLY issues the order to THAT unit. This is very convenient for spells that don't stack well, like Fungal, EMP, and Storm, but because it's so easy to carpet an area with those spells, the spells themselves are nerfed to compensate.It's also a pain in the ass for summoning Infested Terrans, since you only get one IT per click.
This part of the post is the main point. Also, like someone said earlier, SC2 is so fast it rly has to have smartcasting, becouse without that it would be impossible to ever kill anything with storms or it would have to be nearly an insta-killing spell to actually have a place in this game.
Altough i don't like dumbing down the difficulty, i feel like smartcasting has to be implemented, there is no way SC2 would work with current spells without it .. :/
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On July 29 2011 18:19 DueSs wrote:Show nested quote +Destiny winning no surprise for me there. Watch this next MLG how every Zerg from good to mediocre post great results and then we can hopefully have people admit that Zerg is imbalanced. Show nested quote + [Why are there so few terrans in higher leagues]
Because terran is the hardest race to play. I think he's having a hard time TvZ and TvP right now, let's just cut him some slack. lol.
BUT Terran is hard to play, maybe the hardest to some people, only because hard is a relative term. Also he may be bad at the things Terran requires, Good micro/multitasking to split marines and methodically place and re-place siege tanks in good positions. If you don't have this you wont be a good Terran, which is my argument earlier in the post
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This thread makes me want to cry.
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On July 29 2011 18:20 thehitman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 18:16 untilMay wrote:
You you never made a argument that SC2 couldn't be a E-Sport, you just said "okai so infestors imba sentries imba ghosts imba all because 1 mechanic of the game, okay so fix that the they arn't imba."
Also to add to above: This is already a HUGE ESPORT primarily due to a couple of things:
- Automated things still require you to have to micro against it, keeping some level of skill
For example: if you cast fungal growth the persons fault for not splitting is theres
- Starcraft 2 is still young
Do you know how long it took to figure out muta's could stack? And this is just one of the crazy mechanics that the game didn't create but that someone had to FIND
and the list could go on.
So I'd say we are just fine. We haven't gotten to HotS/LoV yet so who knows what crazy mechanic that Browder will introduce to make people find. I've always given Blizzard credit and I wont stop now. Just enjoy the game, Enjoy the community, and who cares if it is a great game for ESPORT or not. As long as you have fun it doesn't matter. And if you don't have fun then you can quit playing. Well to tell you the truth because I hate how all commentators and current SC2 players make it sound so hard and difficult. I mean you'll see Incontrol, HDstarcraft, Day9, etc... all going omg perfect storms, omg such amazing fungal growth destroying the whole terran army when its not one bit hard or exciting to do. I mean its like watching workers being put to mine in SC1 and even that was so much harder and one could argue exciting.
It's a casters job to try and make things exciting, even if some of us don't think it is all that exciting. Think of casters for Soccer or any other sport, pretty boring a majority of the time, yet they yell and scream when a player passes the ball.
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What a stupid, stupid way to discuss smart casting. Sure if you ONLY think about the diffrent ways that you cast spells in the game, SC2 is way easier than BW.
But this is ignoring basicaly everything else about the game. If you isolate just one thing and only one thing, it will always have an influence, except for graphics and music.
It seems like you are trying to fabricate an argument while ignoring a lot of other things. Not a good way to argue.
Also i would like to argue, that things like smart casting actually increase the viability of SC2 as a e-Sport. If you look at football(Dear Americans, i am talking about Soccer, which is the sport with balls and feet not with hands and eggs) its concept and its mechanics are really easy. Things like scoring a goal etc. are easy. No professional soccer player is doing something, that no one else can do, however they are doing the things everyone can do better.
I know how to score a goal from 30 metres distance BUT i can't do it in the same way that Ronaldo does for example.
If you look at SC2 the same way, you will see, that you know how to do the forcefields like MC, but you can't do it without proper training. Everybody can spam the forcefields everywhere but to use them efficiently it takes training.
tl;dr:
OPs argument is bad and might even be the reason, why SC2 is more likely to become a possible esport, because people can immitate what pros are doing but not to the same "perfection".
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Smartcasting make the game more fun to watch, I watch the youtube video and I can see nothing special about it.
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On July 29 2011 18:16 untilMay wrote:
Do you know how long it took to figure out muta's could stack? And this is just one of the crazy mechanics that the game didn't create but that someone had to FIND
and the list could go on.
If someone ever finds a glitch to stack mutas, Blizzard will patch it for sure.
I agree that smart casting in bad. I don't agree that SC2 isn't an e-sports. It doesn't matter how good the game is, as long as sponsors flow, there will be an active community and a lot of tourneys.
Obviously the more excitement you get when watching the games, the more viewers there will be, so the more sponsors there will be, but that the moment SC2 is very successful outside of Korea.
Only thing that could make SC2 a better esport is an official structure like KeSPA for BW.
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On July 29 2011 18:23 MandoRelease wrote:
I'll ignore all the dumb answers on this thread. It's like people just don't read the OP and flame. It's like bnet's forums.
Anyway, I disagree with the OP. I mean, as far as i understood, OP says the game needs to be more challenging in order to grow more as an e-sport. And one way to make it more challenging would be to remove smart-casting. Did I get it right ?
Saying it would make the game more exciting or more likeable from a player perspective is debatable. Has anything happened in SC2 that would require blizzard to make the game more challenging to execute ? OP bring the things like this is what SC2 needs. It isn't. At least not right now.
Should the skill ceiling be raised higher, this is not something we have to discuss on a 1 year old game, especially with HotS and LotV not even out yet. If the game needs to be more challenging in order to grow as an e-sport, you don't have to emphasize the mechanical aspect of the game. You can just as well emphasize the tactical aspect of the game.
You got it right. But HOTS and LOTV won't bring in magical units that make the game super tactical. In fact the best way for tactics to be more effective is to just execute them mechanically better.
You could argue it needs to be more strategic, but that would require the game to have at least 30 different building and at least 30 different units and tech pats so that making a strategic decision is more important than say tactical or mechanical skill.
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SC2 certainly has a policy of reducing the 'difficult to control but highly rewarding' units. Smartcasting vastly simplifies spellcasters, the Reaver was replaced by Colossus, you can't stack air tightly, Carrier launch mechanics were changed to make them better at 1a and worse at active control, etc.
You can argue this is a good, but I certainly wouldn't.
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On July 29 2011 17:51 Angra wrote:
Someone makes a well put together thread to discuss an interesting subject, and just because it's not raising SC2 up on a golden pedestal and raining praise all over it, people come in just to shit all over the thread. Typical.
Not saying I agree or disagree with his opinions, but you guys could at least discuss them in an intelligent fashion rather than the predictable ragefest at someone who thinks that the game could be improved in some way than its current state.
Clearly this is the only explanation...
Or, just maybe, it's because this topic has been beaten to death already?
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I'm under the impression you think you know more than you actually do.
Your title and drastic stances don't help in objectively discussing a topic.
I feel like I'm reading an article from PEOPLE magazine, or Vogue.
TL has been polluted with this kind of opionated garbage ever since sc2.
Ugh.
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Pff these threads are getting a bit tiring. "Please make the interface more retarded to use so the game is harder and it's really an e-sport and fun to watch!"
And always the argument that what the pro's do isn't hard and that they can do it as well, well why aren't you up there competing for 50.000 dollars then?
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EPT
