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DueSs
United States765 Posts
I feel that if SC2 is to really succeed as an E-sports it needs to be more challenging and the one way to do that that wont hurt the play of the average gamer and sales of SC2 or promotion of SC2 to new audiences, but actually help it is by removing smart casting which will make watching SC2 even more enjoyable and make all of us all be excited once again... If we removed Tastosis and Day9 from casting, we'd be left with.. Husky and the likes... Please don't remove smart casting. =[ | ||
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marttorn
Norway5211 Posts
Well ok. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
On July 29 2011 17:43 Exigaet wrote: It's already an eSport. Exactly was I was thinking. It has surpassed bw long ago. OP sees skill in one game that is not an issue in another game and assumes stuff. war2 vs starcraft comes to mind | ||
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Leetley
1796 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:34 Logros wrote: Pff these threads are getting a bit tiring. "Please make the interface more retarded to use so the game is harder and it's really an e-sport and fun to watch!" And always the argument that what the pro's do isn't hard and that they can do it as well, well why aren't you up there competing for 50.000 dollars then? So much this. | ||
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zocktol
Germany1928 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:30 thehitman wrote: You got it right. But HOTS and LOTV won't bring in magical units that make the game super tactical. In fact the best way for tactics to be more effective is to just execute them mechanically better. You could argue it needs to be more strategic, but that would require the game to have at least 30 different building and at least 30 different units and tech pats so that making a strategic decision is more important than say tactical or mechanical skill. To directly adress you once: If you feel SC2 is such a bad game, don't play it. No one is forcing you. The way you are arguing is just inflammatory and you are not making any rational arguments. Especially the fact that you are arguning form ignorace, you have no idea what is going to come with HotS and LotV, however you are using them to fabricate the argument that the game will never change, when it comes to tactics. Just look at chess, the most tactical game and in no way bloated with variance or hard mechanics. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:31 Severedevil wrote: SC2 certainly has a policy of reducing the 'difficult to control but highly rewarding' units. Smartcasting vastly simplifies spellcasters, the Reaver was replaced by Colossus, you can't stack air tightly, Carrier launch mechanics were changed to make them better at 1a and worse at active control, etc. You can argue this is a good, but I certainly wouldn't. You forgot vultures laying mines. One of the small things that made Terran mechanics so unique. A small thing that made you shout MINE DAEBAK ! A small thing that made Nada famous for destroying 12 sieges tanks with a group of 12 vultures and mines. Oh and what about the Consume ability ? Isn't really annoying to have to consume a zergling before having to cast a dark swarm or a playguu ? How come isn't that automatic.... | ||
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tehboredone
15 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:28 Trumpstyle wrote: Smartcasting make the game more fun to watch, I watch the youtube video and I can see nothing special about it. Sure on the surface it looks like a standard protoss-terran engagement that ends in victory for the protoss due to well-placed storms, but you have to consider the UI limitations of brood war at the time where there was 1. 12 unit-limit per hotkey 2. No smart-casting .Unless a group of spell-casters were magic-boxed, having a control group of spellcasters use a spell resulted in all of the spellcasters stacking a spell on one location. When you factor in these limitations, the sight of the toss carpet-storming the terran in the heat of battle against that many tanks becomes a lot more impressive. | ||
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kOre
Canada3642 Posts
On July 29 2011 17:50 Micket wrote: Ravens have smart casting and they're not imba in the slightest. Forcefield would be impossible to use even at the pro level and all the aoe spells will have to be buffed. Infestors are not really a problem. Give me a GSL game where someone massed Infestors and won. How would not having smart casting make forcefielding, storming, fungaling, etc make it impossible to use? If they removed it, it would just be another level to the game and add a higher skill cap to using the spells. | ||
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MandoRelease
France374 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:30 thehitman wrote: You got it right. But HOTS and LOTV won't bring in magical units that make the game super tactical. In fact the best way for tactics to be more effective is to just execute them mechanically better. You could argue it needs to be more strategic, but that would require the game to have at least 30 different building and at least 30 different units and tech pats so that making a strategic decision is more important than say tactical or mechanical skill. The thing is, it's not because SC2 isn't as mechanicaly hard as BW that it is hurting SC2's growth as an e-sport. When you come from a BW background, it may be a difficult thing to understand, but you don't need the most difficult mechanics for the game to be successful as an e-sport. | ||
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tendence
Switzerland61 Posts
Didn't even read all, but I read the end as well, and statements like: "As casual gamers don't use spellcasters anyway/sporadically" just makes you look like you don't really know a lot about the game... | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
No matter how you compare SC1 to SC2 the fact remains at the highest levels SC2 is competitive and the designers are striving for balance...it honestly doesn't have to even be close to broadwar in overall difficulty of use to still be just as hard to achieve mastery in. | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:34 DueSs wrote: If we removed Tastosis and Day9 from casting, we'd be left with.. Husky and the likes... Please don't remove smart casting. =[ This is actually what I thought the thread was going to be about when I read the title. | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
In short, if you're going to complain about something, complain where they actually took something out of the game (Reavers, Corsairs, etc) rather than where they made something simply less frustrating. | ||
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Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
My proposal: Keep smarcasting, but only allow 3-4 spell casters to be controlled at a time. Also, lower their energy pool so that each unit can cast one of each spell before going out of energy. That would balance some ridiculous casting we see right now. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:34 Logros wrote: Pff these threads are getting a bit tiring. "Please make the interface more retarded to use so the game is harder and it's really an e-sport and fun to watch!" And always the argument that what the pro's do isn't hard and that they can do it as well, well why aren't you up there competing for 50.000 dollars then? "Hey I think this could make the game more exciting. The pros look so good, they could do even more and that would be soo fun to watch and you could tell the difference between pros and joes even more." Why can't you look at it this way and instead have to get on the personal level and try to avoid his argument and just outright address the author, not the content? Don't you agree that having to actually care even more about your casters would add a new level of excitement in battle? How about you actually talk about the idea instead of the author not being a pro? Even if we don't get any results, which is likely, we can have a nice discussion. Or am I wrong here? | ||
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DueSs
United States765 Posts
May I direct your attention to an almost carbon copy thread that has been closed by Kennigit in 2010, referencing an earlier same argument from 2007. This argument loop is on round 3, maybe 4, folks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180276 Kennigit - Administrator - December 29 2010 10:59 Ok, yeah this is an argument from 2007. JLIG. | ||
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Anzekay
Australia63 Posts
The irony there is that clearly none of those points are true. There has been enormous amounts of fluxuation between the domination of races and players, and SC2 is gathering in huge numbers of fans after only one year of release. To try and make these sorts of arguments in such an objective fashion just boggles my mind. As for the title? Yeah I think my response to that is pretty obvious. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On July 29 2011 17:43 Exigaet wrote: It's already an eSport. YEAH WELL I PLAYED SC1 AND I THINK IT WAS BETTER!!! I'm going to make a poast about why sc2 can't be an esport because it is inferior!111one | ||
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kidd
United States2848 Posts
SC2, apparently not so obviously, is not brood war and simply because mechanics are easier doesn't invalidate it as a competitive game; that's just not the focus with SC2. Certain professionals are clearly better than others and practice machines like huk improve vastly so there must be lots of skill involved. Besides smart casting, there are so many other factors and honestly if you're looking for awesome mechanics in esports, just watch brood war. If I want to see incredible sniper shots, I'll go watch counter-strike highlights or something - not complain that ghost sniping in sc2 is pointless to watch. That's an exaggeration, but the point still stands; the games are different. | ||
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