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Why SC2 can't be an e-sports - Page 4

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mnck
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark1518 Posts
July 29 2011 09:05 GMT
#61
You state that you can cast as good if not better storms and fungal than pros? I'd love to see you forcefield like MC does. Because almost no one forcefields with his precision. It's a very small differences in the way he does it compared to others, but if you understand the game you would realize that he does it with extreme precision and speed unlike no other protoss I've seen do consistently. It may not be as hard as it was in BW to cast spells, but it that doesn't change the fact that your average scrub can't match MC.

Every protoss match up, except mirror, is in fact is so dependent on forcefields you can easily spot a good protoss from a pro just by watching their forcefields. It may not be something obvious to the average spectator that some players get so much more out of their forcefields than others, but to me it's really what sets apart the good from the best.

tldr; You can't cast spells with the speed and precision of a progamer. So stop claiming to have this ability.
@Munck
brachester
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia1786 Posts
July 29 2011 09:05 GMT
#62
On July 29 2011 18:03 DueSs wrote:
Show nested quote +
NOTE: Please read the full post before posting, I'm not trying to piss on SC2 and say there isn't e-sports happening. The title is there to just get people more interested in the thread and that SC2 would be better as an e-sports if it had smart casting removed.


So the content of your OP, according to the title of your thread, is ?


lol, but it's the other way around, the title is misleading.
I hate all this singing
Shaetan
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1175 Posts
July 29 2011 09:05 GMT
#63
What is smart casting? Not having to select an individual unit to cast it?
My Casts: www.youtube.com/Shaetan
deathray797
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
196 Posts
July 29 2011 09:05 GMT
#64
I think that you are misunderstanding something. You see, SC1 wasn't good because it was balanced. It was good because EVERY SINGLE UNIT AND SPELL IN THE GAME was imbalanced in one way or another, hence making balance arguments kinda pointless
Rotcod
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom138 Posts
July 29 2011 09:06 GMT
#65
On July 29 2011 18:02 brachester wrote:
i agree with the op, but saying it can't be an e-sport is not right, more like it can never be as "mature" as its predecessor. People saying top players still making mistakes in sc2 and therefore, there's still a lot of skills cap to cover. To a certain extent this is true, but not entirely. Players who transition to sc2 are overall lower level players from bw and also sc2 pro teams generally have a much lower practice pressure, and come on, everyone makes mistakes. Also notice how volatile sc2 is? I doubt we gonna see anyone who's able to dominate the korean sc2 scene for more than 6 months, don;t even talk about being a new bonjwa for sc2. Why? Since the skills caps is much lower, lower level players will still have a much more chance in upseting the top players. Increasing the skill caps will reward the hardworking/talented players, not the lazy one, notice how tester is still in code S despite being lazy (not because he's playing bad, just that he''s still good by not practicing).


Nestea? on his way two a third title over 4- 5 gsl seasons? Its a year in and were already seeing consistent players and pros....
DtorR
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia171 Posts
July 29 2011 09:06 GMT
#66
NOTE: Please read the full post before posting, I'm not trying to piss on SC2 and say there isn't e-sports happening. The title is there to just get people more interested in the thread and that SC2 would be better as an e-sports if it had smart casting removed.


So the content of your OP, according to the title of your thread, is ?



Lol better off saying sex and free alcohol to get everyones attention in the thread.
thehitman
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1105 Posts
July 29 2011 09:06 GMT
#67
On July 29 2011 17:59 MonkSEA wrote:
So it doesn't take skill to cast a storm in sc2?

It's not exciting to see HuK cast like 8+ storms all over a bio army and watch nothing return alive?

It's not skill placing the storms and predicting where the Terrans army will walk off too?

Your post is just dumb.. Sorry man, any good fungal, storm, emp requires some type of skill, none of this "smart casting ruined sc2". You can't just 'be good' at the game when you pick it up. The games only been out for a year, give it some time before you bash on it. Remember it took blizzard 3 years to balance bw and it took roughly that many years to make it popular.

You need to predict where he is going to move the army in Brood War as well and you couldn't just have 14 infestors in 1 control group and just ffffffffffffff kill whole armies.
DueSs
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States765 Posts
July 29 2011 09:06 GMT
#68
So the title of his thread, according to his OP, is ?

Bleh, w/e, I don't care anymore.

tehboredone
Profile Joined July 2011
15 Posts
July 29 2011 09:07 GMT
#69
On July 29 2011 17:51 Angra wrote:
Someone makes a well put together thread to discuss an interesting subject, and just because it's not raising SC2 up on a golden pedestal and raining praise all over it, people come in just to shit all over the thread. Typical.

Not saying I agree or disagree with his opinions, but you guys could at least discuss them in an intelligent fashion rather than the predictable ragefest at someone who thinks that the game could be improved in some way than its current state.


Most people aren't bashing on him because he wasn't praising SC2 or anything like that. It's just the idea of smart-spell casting and its controversy of dumbing down the difficulty curve has been discussed to death already. The points in the OP have been made so many times already back when SC2 was announced, and guess what? Smart-casting is still a part of SC2.

While I'm sure people would be down to discuss all the possible implications of smart-casting, it's been done already to the point where you're beating a dead horse. It's like if someone started a thread about MBS and auto-mining and how it lowers the skill-ceiling of SC2. Been there, done that. It's just tiring repeating this kind of discussion, especially when SC2 has been out for over a year and it's clear that these core mechanics of the game are here to stay.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
July 29 2011 09:07 GMT
#70
SC2 is also alot faster than BW. Getting of storm/feedback or getting your HT's sniped is a matter of minute timing. Also as the units are faster they can dodge the storms better, stimmed MM baiting storms is great to see.

This thread adds nothing new as we've already had the discussion about autocasting in other, more fleshed out threads in the past. Also naming the thread "Why SC2 can't be an e-sports" is just retarded if you actually wanted a civil discussion on the subject.
Dimon87
Profile Joined January 2011
218 Posts
July 29 2011 09:07 GMT
#71
I hate to say this but Cool story bro, it already is an e-sports and a damn good one at that!
Rareware
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada340 Posts
July 29 2011 09:09 GMT
#72
On July 29 2011 17:51 Angra wrote:
Someone makes a well put together thread to discuss an interesting subject, and just because it's not raising SC2 up on a golden pedestal and raining praise all over it, people come in just to shit all over the thread. Typical.

Not saying I agree or disagree with his opinions, but you guys could at least discuss them in an intelligent fashion rather than the predictable ragefest at someone who thinks that the game could be improved in some way than its current state.


You kidding if you think all people do is praise SC2, just look around at everyone complaining about new maps, Bnet 2.0 and anything else. This thread makes me facepalm because the title is about as sensationalist as it can get (basically declaring what is and isn't an esport on whether or not it has smart casting) and then assuming you could solve the major balance issues with removing smart casting. You want an intelligent discussion thread? Then don't start with a B.S.title that implies that you decide what is and isn't an esport.
ROOT Fighting!!!
thehitman
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1105 Posts
July 29 2011 09:10 GMT
#73
On July 29 2011 18:05 mnck wrote:
You state that you can cast as good if not better storms and fungal than pros? I'd love to see you forcefield like MC does. Because almost no one forcefields with his precision. It's a very small differences in the way he does it compared to others, but if you understand the game you would realize that he does it with extreme precision and speed unlike no other protoss I've seen do consistently. It may not be as hard as it was in BW to cast spells, but it that doesn't change the fact that your average scrub can't match MC.

Every protoss match up, except mirror, is in fact is so dependent on forcefields you can easily spot a good protoss from a pro just by watching their forcefields. It may not be something obvious to the average spectator that some players get so much more out of their forcefields than others, but to me it's really what sets apart the good from the best.

tldr; You can't cast spells with the speed and precision of a progamer. So stop claiming to have this ability.

I can and I bet you can too, if you aren't say a bronze player. I mean I've even played in gold league in season 1 and no one has trouble casting good spells, maybe not perfect, but they fail to predict the movement of the army, but can cast storms and fungals as fast as any pro.

I mean what is so difficult? People have way more trouble sieging and unsieging tanks than casting spells.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 09:12:37
July 29 2011 09:11 GMT
#74
On July 29 2011 18:07 tehboredone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 17:51 Angra wrote:
Someone makes a well put together thread to discuss an interesting subject, and just because it's not raising SC2 up on a golden pedestal and raining praise all over it, people come in just to shit all over the thread. Typical.

Not saying I agree or disagree with his opinions, but you guys could at least discuss them in an intelligent fashion rather than the predictable ragefest at someone who thinks that the game could be improved in some way than its current state.


Most people aren't bashing on him because he wasn't praising SC2 or anything like that. It's just the idea of smart-spell casting and its controversy of dumbing down the difficulty curve has been discussed to death already. The points in the OP have been made so many times already back when SC2 was announced, and guess what? Smart-casting is still a part of SC2.

While I'm sure people would be down to discuss all the possible implications of smart-casting, it's been done already to the point where you're beating a dead horse. It's like if someone started a thread about MBS and auto-mining and how it lowers the skill-ceiling of SC2. Been there, done that. It's just tiring repeating this kind of discussion, especially when SC2 has been out for over a year and it's clear that these core mechanics of the game are here to stay.

So you(not the personal you, talking in general here) have to respond with a shitstorm of trolls and flames and basically are not able to respond in an appropriate way? Oh wow, I never saw that.

Saying that we can't change the game to make it more exciting because it is what it is now is pretty..well.. stupid? Not saying it in a bad way, just can't think of another word. Why would making something better be bad?
If we actually can find solid arguments as to why something is good, why should that be a bad thing?

I for myself like the idea of removing smartcasting, I won't shitstorm if it doesn't happen but I'm just saying that I think that this would make the game more exciting.
Am I killing eSports now? Do people have the right to troll me now because of that opinion? I don't think so.
But sadly, this is what people do.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
July 29 2011 09:11 GMT
#75
Smartcasting is bad, I agree

Is SC2 a viable E-sport with it? Yes. Misleading title by a lot... What you want to do isn't making E-sport or not, it's seperating the good from the fucking awesome players. It's understandable but the title is, again, misleading.
In the woods, there lurks..
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
July 29 2011 09:12 GMT
#76
On July 29 2011 18:06 thehitman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 17:59 MonkSEA wrote:
So it doesn't take skill to cast a storm in sc2?

It's not exciting to see HuK cast like 8+ storms all over a bio army and watch nothing return alive?

It's not skill placing the storms and predicting where the Terrans army will walk off too?

Your post is just dumb.. Sorry man, any good fungal, storm, emp requires some type of skill, none of this "smart casting ruined sc2". You can't just 'be good' at the game when you pick it up. The games only been out for a year, give it some time before you bash on it. Remember it took blizzard 3 years to balance bw and it took roughly that many years to make it popular.

You need to predict where he is going to move the army in Brood War as well and you couldn't just have 14 infestors in 1 control group and just ffffffffffffff kill whole armies.


and if you have all your infestors control grouped into 1 control group they bunch up, and guess what's good against bunched up Infestors?

EMP.

It's not all "smart casting ruins sc2" like I said.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sirmonkeh Zerg Live Casts and Commentary!
BamBam
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
745 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 09:14:38
July 29 2011 09:13 GMT
#77
EDIT : Gahhh Wrong thread
"two is way better than twice as one" - artosis
Anfi
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation63 Posts
July 29 2011 09:13 GMT
#78
Behind all the trollage the main concern raised by OP seems to be the fact that everything that makes army control easier reduces the game skill cap, and thus leaves less room for amazing players to be amazing.
I don't necessarily agree, but i see where he is coming from.
"Men are like steel. When they lose their temper, they lose their worth." - Chuck Norris
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 09:15:13
July 29 2011 09:14 GMT
#79
Why is this thread even being allowed to stay in the SC2 general?

Can't it be moved to blogs, to the BW section or just closed? I mean it's standing policy to close any complaining thread as Blizzard isn't going to change anything major about the game at this point and this is just more of the same, mixed with a nice dose of BW elitism and topped off with a sensationalist title.

Blizzard isn't going to remove smart-casting and his claims about SC2 not being an e-sport are pretty laughable so what exactly are we supposed to discuss here?
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
July 29 2011 09:15 GMT
#80
On July 29 2011 18:11 KeksX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 18:07 tehboredone wrote:
On July 29 2011 17:51 Angra wrote:
Someone makes a well put together thread to discuss an interesting subject, and just because it's not raising SC2 up on a golden pedestal and raining praise all over it, people come in just to shit all over the thread. Typical.

Not saying I agree or disagree with his opinions, but you guys could at least discuss them in an intelligent fashion rather than the predictable ragefest at someone who thinks that the game could be improved in some way than its current state.


Most people aren't bashing on him because he wasn't praising SC2 or anything like that. It's just the idea of smart-spell casting and its controversy of dumbing down the difficulty curve has been discussed to death already. The points in the OP have been made so many times already back when SC2 was announced, and guess what? Smart-casting is still a part of SC2.

While I'm sure people would be down to discuss all the possible implications of smart-casting, it's been done already to the point where you're beating a dead horse. It's like if someone started a thread about MBS and auto-mining and how it lowers the skill-ceiling of SC2. Been there, done that. It's just tiring repeating this kind of discussion, especially when SC2 has been out for over a year and it's clear that these core mechanics of the game are here to stay.

So you(not the personal you, talking in general here) have to respond with a shitstorm of trolls and flames and basically are not able to respond in an appropriate way? Oh wow, I never saw that.

Saying that we can't change the game to make it more exciting because it is what it is now is pretty..well.. stupid? Not saying it in a bad way, just can't think of another word. Why would making something better be bad?
If we actually can find solid arguments as to why something is good, why should that be a bad thing?

I for myself like the idea of removing smartcasting, I won't shitstorm if it doesn't happen but I'm just saying that I think that this would make the game more exciting.
Am I killing eSports now? Do people have the right to troll me now because of that opinion? I don't think so.
But sadly, this is what people do.


People are not taking this thread seriously as the argument has been presented better in old threads, this one adds nothing new... Oh yeah, it does add something; a stupid sensationalist thread title that has nothing to do with the actual content.
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