• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:43
CET 11:43
KST 19:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners5Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!28$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
- nuked - Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1519 users

Why SC2 can't be an e-sports - Page 12

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 Next All
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
July 29 2011 11:02 GMT
#221
the articles main point is beyond stupid. halo is easy to pick up and play but was still the biggest esport for 10 years. broodwar is EASY to pick up and play. the op is picking some arbitrary line and saying this is hard enough this isnt. pro players are miles ahead of even high masters players and even within the pro scene theres a huge variation. no matter what the people bitching about sc2 say, skill is by far the number 1 factor in winning a game and having a relativly low entry level for skill is irrelevant.

On July 29 2011 19:49 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 19:44 fellcrow wrote:
Why are these threads still allowed?


I really don't know. It's the same old regurgitation of arguments seen over and over again yet as long as it's shitting on SC2 it seems ok. Shitting on BW on the other hand...



i agree, but thats just the way it is 'round these parts
Seditary
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia7033 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 11:05:46
July 29 2011 11:03 GMT
#222
Okay, old tired argument, not so hidden balance whine included inside it, a sensationalist headline and useless grandstanding that refutes his own point?

I don't think you've convinced me.

Oh and as an aside, making something more difficult to do does not reduce the effectiveness of it when done.

To celebrate this thread, I'm going to watch nanashin's stream and forget I ever spent time here.
Love is more fun than hate.
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
July 29 2011 11:03 GMT
#223
On July 29 2011 19:51 SoSexy wrote:
Excuse my ignorance, but whats the difference between a smartcast and a normal cast?

Smart casting:
1: allows you to cast even while having non-cast units or other cast units selected
2: it always cast with the caster closest to the target and only uses one spell at a time

No smart casting:
1: you have to individually select one type of caster to be able to caster its spells
2: if you have more that two (say high templars) selected with more than 75 energy, both high templars will cast their storm.
(You can do some nifty magic boxing for multiple caster selection to be effective, but that's quite difficult)
화이팅
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 11:14:49
July 29 2011 11:04 GMT
#224
Edit: Actually I reread the OP and realized that it's far from well written, your point is obscured by the fact that you contradict it multiple times, and you're making flawed conclusions based on false premises and guesses. Also it's already an e-sport and an extremely successful one so far.
ProxyZooZ
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 29 2011 11:05 GMT
#225
On July 29 2011 20:01 lu_cid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 19:57 Olsson wrote:
What is smart casting maybe you should explain?


Smart casting refers to the ability to hold shift and spam cast a spell all over your opponent's army, whereas without it you typically individually select casters. In other words without smart casting it takes gosu micro just to use spell casters to their full potential.

which is archaic and totally true (god bless bw and fk it to hell)
? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <3 <3 <3
Baz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom289 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 11:09:31
July 29 2011 11:07 GMT
#226
I think you have some valid points, but the point I have the most gripe with is when you say that "[One thing to help SC2] is by removing smart casting which will make watching SC2 even more enjoyable and make all of us all be excited once again". First of all, I think the vast majority of us are still more than a little bit excited about SC2, so just because you might not be getting excited about it all don't presume that everyone else isn't. Secondly, in no way would removing smart-casting help me to enjoy watching SC2 any more. I like watching a ton of storms rain down on a terran bio-ball... I like watching a ton of clutch emp's rain down on some infestors right before a huge TvZ engagement... I fail to see how making this harder to do for me when I play will make it any more enjoyable to watch when a Pro does it. I see plenty of impressive stuff including amazing micro and amazing split second decisions that get me excited when pro's do it because it really is "pro", the game mechanics help the pro's concentrate on other impressive pieces of play such as multi-pronged attacks with all of them being microed etc. The game mechanics, in my opinion, make the game better to watch and more fun to play, I really dislike the argument that because a game has complex mechanics to do basic things, it is more fun to watch because it takes so much skill.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
July 29 2011 11:07 GMT
#227
you learn to walk before you can even talk and yet running is the number 1 sport at the olympics

difficulty of entry is irrelevant

its the skill ceiling that matters. all this talk about smart casting and stuff is a waste of time
Hammer442
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia749 Posts
July 29 2011 11:10 GMT
#228
On July 29 2011 19:58 legaton wrote:
SC2 can't be an e-sports because there's no really talented "e-athletes". What surprises me the most from the SC2 scene (and i follow it alot) is the lack of talent of the player pool. We are still seeing the same washed-up ex-proamateurs from Broodwar. Most of today's pros were B+/A+ amateurs from the ICCup server. That means that they were consistently beaten by 12 years old koreans from the Brain server. Another bunch of the players came from Warcraft 3, even if they were slightly better, they still were a level below Korea (except for Grubby or ToD). What surprises and worries me the most, is how little new talent SC2 has: Vibe? Destiny? A handful other players? People keeps saying SC2 already is an e-sports when it hasn't been able to nurture new pros. You just have the old BW bunch trying to live the life they couldn't had with BW (see Idra).

And what about Korea? They certainly have lots and lots of talent there. But BW still is the most popular and prestigious game in South-Korea. SC2 has a smaller pool. And the pool of player is not growing, it's becoming smaller as there's little support for SC2 in Korea. Haven't you realized that GomTV runs thanks to foreigner money? Sponsors for BW are all Koreans. Sponsors for SC2 are foreign companies with small subsidaries in South Korea. Viewers are also foreign. They have made wonders for the foreign viewers, and i thank them for that. But it also means they see the foreign scene as the only market they can develop. Most coaches and koreans players alredy said it: there's not enough tournaments to support the korean scene. That means that we are going to see less new talent from Korea.


Koreans have admitted themselves that the foreigners can be just as good and that it is merely the strict training regimes that has set Koreans apart for so long. So many people just seem to think if SC2 isn't widely accepted in Korea it will never have major success. With team houses starting up in the US and EU anything is possible, alot of money is being poured in to the foreigner scene and it is entirely possible for it to eventually overtake the Korean scene.

You make it sound like nothing is possible in SC without Koreans which is not the case, just the methods that they use are needed, which can be taken from any dedicated athlete from any sport.
AcrosstheSky
Profile Joined January 2011
United States237 Posts
July 29 2011 11:12 GMT
#229
It doesn't have the skill ceiling of mechanical brood war but it doesn't mean it can't be an E-Sport, it actually is already. Also remember before making topics like this which you know will make people rage out remember that Starcraft is only a year old. The timing and game is still being figured out, when it becomes more refined and less volatile the skill ceiling will increase as well. Brood War has had over 10 years of experience so gimmick plays like all ins exct. where much less effective since tells and exact reactions had been discovered.
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
July 29 2011 11:12 GMT
#230
It just astounds me that some people think that just because one certain part of the game might be "easier" to do, that it means that the game is "easier" or that the skill cap is lower. To me it just means that is either:
1. One less thing to focus on mechanically so that you can raise the bar in other categories such as Build-order, strats, multi-tactical plays.
2. If it is easier to do because of smart casting, then the opposite side of the coin becomes harder, defending against it.
Also, your argument that SC2 as a sport will fail because of this is just silly and does not hold water.
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
Coolwhip
Profile Joined March 2011
927 Posts
July 29 2011 11:13 GMT
#231
Balance issues wont affect it in the slightest. Is it fun to watch for a large audience? Then something can become an esport. Wether or not esports will grow in the coming years is the only question that matters.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
July 29 2011 11:14 GMT
#232
The day I see someone play a perfect game of starcraft 2, I will agree that the game should be made harder. Untill that I see no reason to remove smart casting.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
July 29 2011 11:15 GMT
#233
rename the thread, to something like why will BW will be always better or idk, SC2 definetly an e sport already
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
July 29 2011 11:16 GMT
#234
hahahahaha... no.
It can't be an e-sport because of a simplified casting system? Hate to break the big news to you buddy, but it already is an e-sport. In fact, much simpler and faaaar less challenging games already are e-sports. Heck, Trackmania is an e-sport. COD is an e-sport.
This OP is stupid.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
ProxyZooZ
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States53 Posts
July 29 2011 11:16 GMT
#235
On July 29 2011 20:07 turdburgler wrote:
you learn to walk before you can even talk and yet running is the number 1 sport at the olympics

difficulty of entry is irrelevant

its the skill ceiling that matters. all this talk about smart casting and stuff is a waste of time

its like saying we should have lisps to make the games better .. guess fking what ... i have a lisp and i talk fine ... and any decent pro would cast just fine w/ or w/out smart cast (basically you are talking about regular players and how they will play) True That turdburgler
? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ <3 <3 <3
-Strider-
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico1605 Posts
July 29 2011 11:16 GMT
#236
Day 9 has a smart cast
What is up? IM NESTEAAAA!
Willes
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany199 Posts
July 29 2011 11:16 GMT
#237
On July 29 2011 20:12 TheAmazombie wrote:
It just astounds me that some people think that just because one certain part of the game might be "easier" to do, that it means that the game is "easier" or that the skill cap is lower. To me it just means that is either:
1. One less thing to focus on mechanically so that you can raise the bar in other categories such as Build-order, strats, multi-tactical plays.
2. If it is easier to do because of smart casting, then the opposite side of the coin becomes harder, defending against it.
Also, your argument that SC2 as a sport will fail because of this is just silly and does not hold water.



This.
The topicposter should look for the definition of sport and "e-sport" first before posting.
exog
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway279 Posts
July 29 2011 11:18 GMT
#238
Idiot article with an idiot topic. You're wrong and what you wrote didn't make sense. Stupid BW=GOD-complex that keeps plaguing the discussions. While you're at it, revert graphics too derp derp

User was warned for this post
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
July 29 2011 11:21 GMT
#239
Wait a minute. Is this 2009?
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
rfoster
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1005 Posts
July 29 2011 11:23 GMT
#240
How exactly does smart casting affect storm? You do the same function as BW emp and fungal wouldnt be affected by smart casting either. Tanks are the only thing you talked about that would be affected. Someone tell me if im being incredibly stupid.
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 704
BeSt 366
Stork 280
Mini 227
Larva 211
Light 181
JYJ169
Leta 157
PianO 130
EffOrt 115
[ Show more ]
Aegong 102
sSak 99
Pusan 93
Barracks 79
Rush 42
soO 40
Sharp 39
Backho 32
yabsab 24
sorry 20
NotJumperer 15
Bale 11
Icarus 11
scan(afreeca) 10
Noble 9
Terrorterran 8
HiyA 7
Dota 2
Gorgc5971
KheZu211
XcaliburYe182
League of Legends
JimRising 398
Reynor156
Counter-Strike
fl0m1815
zeus158
taco 91
Other Games
summit1g13679
singsing1232
ceh9504
Happy192
crisheroes191
Sick147
XaKoH 77
NeuroSwarm47
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick501
Counter-Strike
PGL167
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos4018
• Stunt593
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 17m
LAN Event
4h 17m
Lambo vs Harstem
FuturE vs Maplez
Scarlett vs FoxeR
Gerald vs Mixu
Zoun vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TriGGeR vs TBD
Korean StarCraft League
16h 17m
CranKy Ducklings
23h 17m
LAN Event
1d 4h
IPSL
1d 7h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 9h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.