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On July 29 2011 19:35 hmmm... wrote:
regarding all the arguments saying "LOL well SC2 IS an Esport"
i beg to differ. if you're defining esports by the number of tournaments in the west, the number of online viewers on gomtv, justintv, livestream, etc., the number of hardcore gamer/nerd audience, then that simply means the game is very popular in my book.
it may reach a certain popularity to become part of mainstream culture among GAMERS/NERDS but until it becomes part of mainstream culture among the general public like BW in korea, SC2 is not an Esport.
but i'll leave it up to you however you wish to define esport to satisfy your ego.
Thank god you came by and enlightened us all of what the real definition of Esports is.
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On July 29 2011 19:44 fellcrow wrote:
Why are these threads still allowed?
I really don't know. It's the same old regurgitation of arguments seen over and over again yet as long as it's shitting on SC2 it seems ok. Shitting on BW on the other hand...
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On July 29 2011 19:35 hmmm... wrote:
regarding all the arguments saying "LOL well SC2 IS an Esport"
i beg to differ. if you're defining esports by the number of tournaments in the west, the number of online viewers on gomtv, justintv, livestream, etc., the number of hardcore gamer/nerd audience, then that simply means the game is very popular in my book.
it may reach a certain popularity to become part of mainstream culture among GAMERS/NERDS but until it becomes part of mainstream culture among the general public like BW in korea, SC2 is not an Esport.
but i'll leave it up to you however you wish to define esport to satisfy your ego.
Oh, interesting. So you define what a "sport" is not by the *actual* definition of the word, but by some strange definition you made up by yourself based on "mainstream" popularity? I guess that makes things a lot easier in life when you can just make stuff up to fit your worldview. Well, let me introduce you to some facts and some examples which show how absurd this is.
First, some definitions:
Wikipedia: Electronic sports, abbreviated e-sports is used as a general term to describe the play of video games competitively
Wikipedia: A sport is an organized, competitive, entertaining, and skillful activity requiring commitment, strategy, and fair play, in which a winner and loser can be defined by objective means.
Hmm, looks like StarCraft 2 fits both definitions! Funny that I don't see anything about "mainstream culture" in either of those definitions.
So now to show why your definition is absurd. Ask yourself: was Basketball not a sport before achieving mainstream popularity? Is Cricket a sport in some countries but not a sport in others, depending on mainstream acceptance? Is American Football less of a sport in England than it is in America? Would you look a pro Putt-Putt player (http://proputters.com/) in the face and tell them what they do isn't a sport because it isn't broadcast on TV?
I'm sorry sir, but it seems as if the only person defining things incorrectly to satisfy their own ego is you.
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The main problem is imo CLUMPING units and not smart casting. If you could dodge it by magic boxing ground, nothing would be so crazy as it is.
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Also smartcasting would make some Spells ridiculously OP.
Imagine if Ghost's snipe didnt have smartcasting... Just make 2 control groups of like 8 ghosts and have fun one shotting ultras broodlords etc. Obcviously you could change the amount of ghosts for other enemies like roaches or mutas. Would work with EMP as well, we wouldn't have to manually EMP the same are twice for example.
My point is, that although it would make some spells harder to use, it would make the ghosts spells much easier to use, which would represent an imbalance
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On July 29 2011 19:35 hmmm... wrote:
regarding all the arguments saying "LOL well SC2 IS an Esport"
i beg to differ. if you're defining esports by the number of tournaments in the west, the number of online viewers on gomtv, justintv, livestream, etc., the number of hardcore gamer/nerd audience, then that simply means the game is very popular in my book.
it may reach a certain popularity to become part of mainstream culture among GAMERS/NERDS but until it becomes part of mainstream culture among the general public like BW in korea, SC2 is not an Esport.
but i'll leave it up to you however you wish to define esport to satisfy your ego.
SO is lacross not a sport .. are roller derbies not a sport ... Mainstream is what defines something as a fking esport .. gtfo so thoughtless and arrogant
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Excuse my ignorance, but whats the difference between a smartcast and a normal cast?
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already an esp...oh wait.
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On July 29 2011 19:34 Beef Noodles wrote:
I played BW and now I play SC2, and I have to say I completely agree with the OP.
If something doesn't change to make SC2 more "awe inspiring," then I think people will lose interest.
I haven't played BW in a year and a half, but I'm flying to Shanghai to watch the Proleague Finals. I would never do that for SC2.
However the reason I think SC2 has exploded in popularity is precisely because it's much simpler mechanically allowing players to really get into the strategic elements of the game without being frustrated because they're spending all their time directing workers to mineral patches and grouping their units into 1,2,3,4,5.
The downside is we'll never see crazy shit like boxer blinding 6 observers or locking down 7 bcs in the span of a second.
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On July 29 2011 19:35 ZaaaaaM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 19:30 Miefer wrote:
I think smartcasting is making sc2 more an esport title than without. I mean without smartcasting, most of the casuals and lower skill players would stop playing the game and lose interest in the game. without the big audience sc2 would be only a niche computer game. because the game is more open for most of the people it makes success as esport than bw in the foreign scene. good example would be soccer. I mean I can play soccer but I will never be as good as Messi or other pros. Indeed, people don't want to agree, everything has to be as hard as possible, but NO way we would be close to the amount of tourneys/community size we have today.
Look bronze and silver players don't use spells and spellcasters much anyways, so its not like smart casting is what is making them play the game, that can't be further from the truth.
Second of all you already have the MBS, auto-mining and stuff, so its not like we are bringing SC2 to BW levels of skill. The point is removing smart casting won't affect casual players so they want to stop playing the game, but it will affect the high level players and make for more skillful and exciting games.
Lets be honest for once and admit that casting spells in SC2 is EASY and there is no amount of spinning it around or rationalizing it that will make it require any skill.
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Goodness Gracious. Guys, can we mature up and stop spamming this thread with "LOL THIS IS ALREADY AN E-SPORT" One is enough. And can you please put some proper discussion instead of just blatantly flaming the OP? He made a good try and its his opinion. We're a friendly community and we should respect each others values and opinions.
In my opinion, taking smart casting won't make any difference but cause hindrance to casual players such as myself. SC2 is completely different from SCBW therefore thats why it's fanbase is not as popular
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What is smart casting maybe you should explain?
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On July 29 2011 19:55 SEA_GenesiS wrote:
Goodness Gracious. Guys, can we mature up and stop spamming this thread with "LOL THIS IS ALREADY AN E-SPORT" One is enough. And can you please put some proper discussion instead of just blatantly flaming the OP? He made a good try and its his opinion. We're a friendly community and we should respect each others values and opinions.
In my opinion, taking smart casting won't make any difference but cause hindrance to casual players such as myself. SC2 is completely different from SCBW therefore thats why it's fanbase is not as popular
Why do you consider repeating something discussed countless times before and chosing a horrible thread name "a good try"?
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On July 29 2011 19:50 Daedaluz wrote:
Also smartcasting would make some Spells ridiculously OP.
Imagine if Ghost's snipe didnt have smartcasting... Just make 2 control groups of like 8 ghosts and have fun one shotting ultras broodlords etc. Obcviously you could change the amount of ghosts for other enemies like roaches or mutas. Would work with EMP as well, we wouldn't have to manually EMP the same are twice for example.
My point is, that although it would make some spells harder to use, it would make the ghosts spells much easier to use, which would represent an imbalance
What on earth are you talking about?
For starters I believe (and hope for the game) that it isn't cost effective to snipe ultras, but are you actually arguing that 1e click 2e click 3e click 4e click 5e click etc.. is easier than 1 shift-e click click click click click etc..?
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SC2 can't be an e-sports because there's no really talented "e-athletes". What surprises me the most from the SC2 scene (and i follow it alot) is the lack of talent of the player pool. We are still seeing the same washed-up ex-proamateurs from Broodwar. Most of today's pros were B+/A+ amateurs from the ICCup server. That means that they were consistently beaten by 12 years old koreans from the Brain server. Another bunch of the players came from Warcraft 3, even if they were slightly better, they still were a level below Korea (except for Grubby or ToD). What surprises and worries me the most, is how little new talent SC2 has: Vibe? Destiny? A handful other players? People keeps saying SC2 already is an e-sports when it hasn't been able to nurture new pros. You just have the old BW bunch trying to live the life they couldn't had with BW (see Idra).
And what about Korea? They certainly have lots and lots of talent there. But BW still is the most popular and prestigious game in South-Korea. SC2 has a smaller pool. And the pool of player is not growing, it's becoming smaller as there's little support for SC2 in Korea. Haven't you realized that GomTV runs thanks to foreigner money? Sponsors for BW are all Koreans. Sponsors for SC2 are foreign companies with small subsidaries in South Korea. Viewers are also foreign. They have made wonders for the foreign viewers, and i thank them for that. But it also means they see the foreign scene as the only market they can develop. Most coaches and koreans players alredy said it: there's not enough tournaments to support the korean scene. That means that we are going to see less new talent from Korea.
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i could convince the people who agree with this thread that same race 1v1 is imba .. need i say more. Probably sadly (but i quit)
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On July 29 2011 19:57 Olsson wrote:
What is smart casting maybe you should explain?
5) Smart Casting
Another improvement to the normal (as of StarCraft 1) behavior of units. Previously, a group of the same units with a special ability who were given a command to use the ability would all activate it together. This would result in 12 Ghosts all locking down a single Carrier, a group of Templars Psi-Storming a single spot on the field, or Queens using up valuable energy by casting ensnare on a single position.
In StarCraft 2, “Smart Casting” would allow the player to use abilities when selecting a group – only this time, only one of the units (the closest one, no less) would use it. A smart player would select a group of Templars, shift click a few locations on the field, and cover a huge area with a devastating super Psi-Storm.
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Coming from someone who has been through the hole "omg a new game is out, let's compare it to the last one and bitch about it all day long" thing about 3 or 4 times now: Just stop it, SC 2 is SC2 and even though it may feel ages easier than the previous game, the mechanics of SC 2 are still a lot more difficulty than those of an average game, just because BW is harder doesn't mean SC 2 is easy. Plus one feature doesn't turn the game from being "eSports" to not being that, and you are not in place to decide, there are professional tournaments run with a prize pool and shit, in my books that makes it eSports already, even with smartcasting.
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Russian Federation63 Posts
On July 29 2011 19:57 Olsson wrote:
What is smart casting maybe you should explain?
I think they are referring to your ability to select multiple casters and still issue individual casting orders.
In BW, selecting multiple Templars and telling them to Storm would have them all storm the same place. And multiple storms don't stack their damage, it'd be an epic waste.
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On July 29 2011 19:57 Olsson wrote:
What is smart casting maybe you should explain?
Smart casting refers to the ability to hold shift and spam cast a spell all over your opponent's army, whereas without it you typically individually select casters. In other words without smart casting it takes gosu micro just to use spell casters to their full potential.
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EPT
