EPTWhy SC2 can't be an e-sports - Page 9
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
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Archerylady
277 Posts
Control groups? What is this casual rubbish? Players should have to command every unit individually! Also, hotkeys! The ability to issue commands using the keyboard makes the game too easy. Imagine how impressive and awe-inspiring it would be to spectate a game knowing the players have ground their wrist joints to dust by the 20 minute mark! This truly separates the pros from the joes! | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On July 29 2011 19:02 zocktol wrote: Cause Broodwar had that one year after release? It did a lot in its first year. It would be hard to compare SC2 to BW and like I said it's very possible that SC2 will build into what BW has and maybe even replace it in Korea one day. The first StarCraft helped create PC Bangs and fostered tournament play in its first year unlike any other game did. By 2000 big tournaments were already happening, including televised StarLeagues. It became a national phenomenon by at least it's second year. I don't think anyone expects SC2 to do what BW had done in its first two years and that's fine. It might take five years and SC2 could overtake BW and become huge in Korea or break into the mainstream in some other country. I don't really want to continue this discussion much. No one knows what the future will hold for SC2 so it's all just biased speculation at this point.  | ||
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Quintum_
United States669 Posts
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
In a way SC2 is somewhat wc3esque. Especially on smaller maps, perfect play is possible. And perfect play was NEVER possible in BW. With bigger maps though, this is slowly disappearing.. except for the dumb PvP matchup y_y | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:58 Yiska wrote: OPs entire train of thought is flawed. The idea that a game can only be an e-sport when it's challenging is false. If a sufficient amount of people would watch players play in competitive Hello Kitty online, it would be an e-sport. Never had the actual structure/concept of the game anything to do with the binary decision, yes or no. Communities make e-sports, not games. Yup! But that wouldn't make me happy about it, nor make me want to support it.  Anyway, the diffculty of SC2 is far above most games out there (though certainly not above bw - niether mechanically, nor strategically) and should be perfectly able to work as a ESPORT, but I see Korea's BW culture and MMOs in general as a huge danger for the future of SC2 and other inferior RTS games. Also, to people comparing the korean BW scene with the international SC2 scene - and calling the internation SC2 superior: You're missing the fact that BW is so much more established than SC2, and that all of this is in such a compact area (though we are a alot of foreign fans). SC2 is spread out all over the world with roughly the same amount of fans. This in itself makes for an unstable business, but don't forget who the majority of you fans actually are. Now, this is gonna sound like I'm shitting on you, but most of you are here simply because Blizzard made SC2. You're basically looking where the wind blows - "what's the big game now"-kind of thing. SC2 is still in a state of craze - It's still the big thing. I'll be happy to eat my words later, but I highly doubt SC2 will be anywhere near the same popularity in about five years' time (not even getting close to the ~12 years of BW, which is still going strong). | ||
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FreedonNadd
Austria573 Posts
On July 29 2011 18:58 thehitman wrote: SC2 smart casting to football is like players using robot legs to run. First: both sides have robo legs. Equal chances for all. Second: Stop comparing sports to esports. Its not the same. You can't be faster then the user interface allows you to be. Your marines will not run faster then programmed. Think of core race differences in bw/sc2, and now tell me if this design is on purpose or imbalance that a race can build all kind of units at one building, or initiate buildings without a worker or float buildings. BW was the game of a generation, now a new generation mixed with old players is playing the game, and only the future will show the success. Pls stop these nonsense threads. SC1 wasn't even that successful when it was one year old. Other game, with same story background. | ||
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ProxyZooZ
United States53 Posts
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yawnoC
United States3704 Posts
... then again the last time I played it was probably about 8 years ago ... I feel like reinstalling Brood War just so I can remember how hard it really was. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
So you have a super supply effectiv, effectiv against every unit, unit. yeah smartcast nice and all, in bw i had to select one caster to cast one time to do the damage, 4 casters doing with 6 casts in sc2 now, yeah they really managed to mess up to balance out the smartcast. Hehe kidding the game got more comfortable, but the casters don't benefit from smartcast, its more the other way round. So yeah casters are damn imba if you win the fight before their energy hits 0. But not as imba as in bw, so i don't see an issue there. Sc2 is faster then bw, that makes it harder to deal with casters effectifly. In other words sc2 looks like its easier to play like bw. But with the speed increase blizzard did to the game (to make up for all the benefits you have from better control). the skill ceiling is actually higher then bw can ever be. (though i doubt its humanly possible to reach the levels above bw, that are possible in sc2, which means there will always be people saying bw needs more skill) Anyway in regards of easy to learn hard to master Blizzard made a successor to bw, its just my opinion on it and there is hardly any proof for either side. All we can do is wait and see. But the epic moves are harder in sc2, so we might have to wait more then 7 years for them . See you then ;( | ||
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
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zocktol
Germany1928 Posts
On July 29 2011 19:22 overt wrote: I don't really want to continue this discussion much. No one knows what the future will hold for SC2 so it's all just biased speculation at this point. Truer words migth have not been spoken in this thread ^.^ | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On July 29 2011 19:20 Existential wrote: Anyway on topic, when I play SC2 myself and use high templars, sentries or infestors when I play Zerg the use of smart cast takes the most of the fun and skill out of using casting units. Whenever I watch BW and several storms go down, I know that the player executing the move needed precision and a great amount of skill to get multiple down in such a short amount of time. With SC2 however, if I see severals storms going down I go: "Oh okay, he was just on his HT control group and pressed T and M1 several times real fast." And.... title is misleading :/ I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get one storm or fungal of against a tournament level terran/toss. When i watch BW i think, wow that looks basic but i know it takes a shitload of APM just due to everything being very ineffective control wise. In SC2 the actual casting of spells is simple but protecting the casters from feedback/snipe/emp against a good opponent is the hard part. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
I do agree with some of your points about smartcasting thou, having 12 infestors on 1 hotkey and spamming F is not skillful. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Thats such a stupid idea its untrue, i actually believe he's trolling because he lost to a damn storm or some shit | ||
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KingVietKong
United States170 Posts
This really just goes into the larger discussion of control mechanics and how difficult does a game have to be so that it can be considered skill-centric, and you've just picked smart casting as your flag, but it's the same argument that's been said since before beta even launched. Remove MBS! Remove auto-mining! Remove smartcasting! 60% more ogres! Maybe removing smart casting would help... or maybe it wouldn't make an excess difference on the pro end who already have hundreds of APM and will surely improve their control greatly as time goes on. If their control is great with intuitive game mechanics (like smart casting) I think we have the potential to see some amazing stuff. A decent bit of BW awesomeness is rooted in overcoming the absolute retardery of the units; it's fun to watch, but I'm not ever going to join the camp that says easier mechanics = easier game. | ||
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Miefer
Taiwan229 Posts
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
I reall hope that this game aint gonna die in 4-5 years just like Warcraft did... | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
If something doesn't change to make SC2 more "awe inspiring," then I think people will lose interest. I haven't played BW in a year and a half, but I'm flying to Shanghai to watch the Proleague Finals. I would never do that for SC2. | ||
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