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On July 29 2011 18:56 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 18:35 Patriot.dlk wrote:On July 29 2011 17:43 Exigaet wrote:
It's already an eSport. Exactly was I was thinking. It has surpassed bw long ago. OP sees skill in one game that is not an issue in another game and assumes stuff. war2 vs starcraft comes to mind + Show Spoiler +
Just want to say that while his title isn't the greatest (as literally any game played competitively can be called an eSport) I like to think he meant an eSport in the same way that BW is.
Yes, SC2 is bigger outside of Korea than BW ever was. Yes, there are tons of tournaments, exposure, and money in SC2. And yes, there are even Korean pros and Korean tournaments that are a big part of the SC2 eSports scene.
But what SC2 isn't, and likely won't be, is a game that can have a following like that of an actual sport. It isn't impossible and it may very well happen one day but right now SC2 doesn't have squealing fan girls, huge sponsors for teams, or a number of other things that BW still has going for it. What SC2 hasn't done is broken into the mainstream of a country.
I'm not saying it won't and I'm not even saying that I agree with the OP as I honestly don't know what SC2 can do to have that. Maybe it is a higher skill ceiling. Maybe it just needed to be "in the right place at the right time." I'm not gonna pretend like it's an issue of skill or entertainment value because honestly no one knows why BW was so huge in Korea and why SC2 hasn't reached that status (at least not yet). I think that threads like this might not be the best way of discussing a topic as sensitive as this one though.
I hope I haven't offended anyone or stepped out of line. I'm just trying to offer some insight, I think it'd be great if SC2 broke into the mainstream as BW did in Korea but I personally don't see it happening. I would love to be proven wrong though!
My thoughts exactly.
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On July 29 2011 18:58 thehitman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 18:28 zocktol wrote:
What a stupid, stupid way to discuss smart casting. Sure if you ONLY think about the diffrent ways that you cast spells in the game, SC2 is way easier than BW.
But this is ignoring basicaly everything else about the game. If you isolate just one thing and only one thing, it will always have an influence, except for graphics and music.
It seems like you are trying to fabricate an argument while ignoring a lot of other things. Not a good way to argue.
Also i would like to argue, that things like smart casting actually increase the viability of SC2 as a e-Sport. If you look at football(Dear Americans, i am talking about Soccer, which is the sport with balls and feet not with hands and eggs) its concept and its mechanics are really easy. Things like scoring a goal etc. are easy. No professional soccer player is doing something, that no one else can do, however they are doing the things everyone can do better.
I know how to score a goal from 30 metres distance BUT i can't do it in the same way that Ronaldo does for example.
If you look at SC2 the same way, you will see, that you know how to do the forcefields like MC, but you can't do it without proper training. Everybody can spam the forcefields everywhere but to use them efficiently it takes training.
tl;dr:
OPs argument is bad and might even be the reason, why SC2 is more likely to become a possible esport, because people can immitate what pros are doing but not to the same "perfection". LOL, your post is just pure ignorance. SC2 smart casting to football is like players using robot legs to run.
WHAT??????????
Sure, it would be like that if the cast the spells for you, or wait.
Yeah OP is right, fuck SC2 it is way too easy, im going back to playing BW with my knees cause fingers are for those who have no skill.
edit: On July 29 2011 19:02 Existential wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 18:56 overt wrote:On July 29 2011 18:35 Patriot.dlk wrote:On July 29 2011 17:43 Exigaet wrote:
It's already an eSport. Exactly was I was thinking. It has surpassed bw long ago. OP sees skill in one game that is not an issue in another game and assumes stuff. war2 vs starcraft comes to mind + Show Spoiler +
Just want to say that while his title isn't the greatest (as literally any game played competitively can be called an eSport) I like to think he meant an eSport in the same way that BW is.
Yes, SC2 is bigger outside of Korea than BW ever was. Yes, there are tons of tournaments, exposure, and money in SC2. And yes, there are even Korean pros and Korean tournaments that are a big part of the SC2 eSports scene.
But what SC2 isn't, and likely won't be, is a game that can have a following like that of an actual sport. It isn't impossible and it may very well happen one day but right now SC2 doesn't have squealing fan girls, huge sponsors for teams, or a number of other things that BW still has going for it. What SC2 hasn't done is broken into the mainstream of a country.
I'm not saying it won't and I'm not even saying that I agree with the OP as I honestly don't know what SC2 can do to have that. Maybe it is a higher skill ceiling. Maybe it just needed to be "in the right place at the right time." I'm not gonna pretend like it's an issue of skill or entertainment value because honestly no one knows why BW was so huge in Korea and why SC2 hasn't reached that status (at least not yet). I think that threads like this might not be the best way of discussing a topic as sensitive as this one though.
I hope I haven't offended anyone or stepped out of line. I'm just trying to offer some insight, I think it'd be great if SC2 broke into the mainstream as BW did in Korea but I personally don't see it happening. I would love to be proven wrong though!
My thoughts exactly.
Cause Broodwar had that one year after release?
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On July 29 2011 18:58 thehitman wrote:
LOL, your post is just pure ignorance.
SC2 smart casting to football is like players using robot legs to run.
You should probably start using an abacus calculators make math to easy.
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@op: I think you need to check your internet connection, because it seems your ping is about 13 months right now.
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Blizzard would have realized many things like smart casting and queuing in BW, if they back then were aware that this features are good and allow you to concentrate on more important things.
In Warcraft you could only group 4 units, in Warcraft 2 9 units and 12 units in BW, so is that good or worse for esports? I would say it's more a programming issue then anything else.
Most gameplay features of SC2 (except graphics) could have been implemented in BW too. The reason they didn't do it is awareness, early game engine design limitations and performance. It's not that easy to correct these things with a small patch, you have to do a lot of coding.
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Maybe casters scream over perfect storms as they are getting more rare, at least in PvT, due to EMP and snipes on HT's. It's easier to cover a screen with storms in SC2, it's not easy to keep your templars alive and generate enough energy to get to that point.
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Russian Federation63 Posts
What SC2 needs is a few years of life, an x-pac with units to plug any real holes in balance Blizz has discovered so far (i don't know any so don't ask), it's own Slayers.BoXeR with his own second always pushing him forward.
Rivalry, drama and emotions in general are the things i find lacking in current scene. You can't have large viewership and cult following without that. And these things take some time to develop. We already have some cool Idra vs MC fun going on )
Higher skill cap is not what SC2 really needs at this point. Maybe later, but not now.
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What a terrible thread.
You take some random abilities in the game, compare them with BW and proceed to make a thread about it named 'Why SC2 can't be an e-sports'?
Then you edit ur topic that u are not pissing on SC2 and SC2 e-sports?
Well maybe, just maybe you shouldn't name ur thread like that then. (just a suggestion)
get out
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On July 29 2011 18:26 Kenpachi wrote:
This thread makes me want to cry.
Truth, this thread makes me want to tear my hair out with a frustrated SC2 player trying to leverage BW mechanics as a reason to hate. Too many people can't properly dissociate that there are SC2 balance trolls trying to hide under the skirts of BW mechanics to rage at imbalance, whiners with too much time not spent playing BW raging at the thought of "SC2 Y U NO BE MORE LIKE BW", and generally simple-minded newbies who equate any mention of BW as heresy to SC2.
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I don't understand the e-sports aspect of the title.
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On July 29 2011 19:09 Jakkerr wrote:
What a terrible thread.
You take some random abilities in the game, compare them with BW and proceed to make a thread about it named 'Why SC2 can't be an e-sports'?
Then you edit ur topic that u are not pissing on SC2 and SC2 e-sports?
Well maybe, just maybe you shouldn't name ur thread like that then. (just a suggestion)
get out
Yeah this whole thread that SC2 can't be esports because of smart casting and comparing once again to bw seems quite, meh. Then again I already also thought Starcraft 2 was eSports.
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That's like saying american football can't be a sport because the predecessor (football) is better.
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wow wow wow .. let me first list the problems of your assumtions before i can get around the the post's statements
1)Starcraft 2 is less of an E-Sport than Brood War = false . no argument
2)Low league players cannot properly cast spells = this was maybe true once upon a time... but FALSE now a days when many players are focusing on one strat (often revolving around one unit) to progress themselves through ladder
3)People can be right and wrong about the same thing. : This is not true and you better chose a side based off of what you know because guess what,! the infestor cannot be OP and UP at the same time (vs the same race)
For Starcraft 2 to be a successful e-sport all it needs is logical and mathmatical feedback about changing anything which doesnt make sense between races (and better maps)
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While the post seems like flame bait, esp with the tltle, the addition of smart casting alone does not define the skill cap of the game. Yes, it's a easier than BW SPECIFICALLY in the area of casting but the two cannot be compared otherwise, as they are very different games, and BW was a game that took 10 YEARS to develop, and just now has SC2 hit 1y.
And I fail to see how the title is appropriate to the OP.
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I love how this is always the same statement over and over again, it will never be an e-sport, it will never get big. Look at what the MLG guys said, they said oh starcraft will never overtake Halo, half a year later the people at the live events for MLG multiplies by at least 50 for SC2 and the streams go INSANE with 10x the amount of viewers for SC than other games. SC2 is ALWAYS grabbing more players and more viewers and it has been doing it very CONSISTENTLY I do not understand why you say it cannot be an e-sport when it is so consistent. And yes an e-sport does need to reflect skill and hard work and training on the players, I partly believe that is why BW was so successful it took so much skill and time. SC2 I do not feel is completely there just yet I feel like it is still missing a few pages, but hell SC1 was not complete without BW. I am hoping the expansions will help push the bar for the skill required to be at the top top level of the game and help reflect players skill even more.
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Yeah looking at TL tournament tracker it seems like SC2 is doing quite well as a esport with or without, oh so terrible, smartcasting.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/14io9dy.jpg) And that's just in the coming weeks and not even showing GTSL/GSL prizes.
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What is it with BW fanatics and SC2 bashing?
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so if you can do things better than a pro gamer why arent you one?
this op is kinda bad imho because its so one sided
can you see a reason for pro players losing to other pro gamers if the game is just soo easy and you can do everything perfectly ?
makes no sense at some points but good that people think about the game in a smart way and not only about imbalance and such
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Oh jesus... "if sc2 was bw"..... I understand where you are coming from but SC2 already is an esport....
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EPT
