On July 14 2011 02:49 Navillus wrote:
Ooh ooh, and how bout Blizz also lets you just press a button to make workers continuously until you have the perfect number... You'll never have to macro again!

But seriously, stop giving them ideas to make the game even easier.

I wouldn't mind this. I thought it was pretty awesome how in Supreme Commander you could tell any unit-producing structure "keep building this unit until I tell you to stop".

Why, exactly, is making the interface easier to use a bad thing? Do you really think it lowers the skill ceiling? It makes the learning curve easier, which allows more people to participate in the high level play where strategy actually starts to matter, but all the top pros already execute these basic macro mechanics near perfectly anyway. So even if you allowed people to completely automate worker production, it would not change the way top pros play.

In fact, the only real effect such a change would have on the pro scene, that I can see, would be to free up a few extra actions for more interesting-to-watch types of control--like, for instance, marine micro.

Halcyondaze

United States509 Posts

July 13 2011 18:00 GMT

#163

Lets make SC2 even more easy, bad idea.

Black[CAT]

Malaysia2589 Posts

July 13 2011 18:10 GMT

#164

People these days....I was about to make an analogy about basketball being dumbed down with sc2...I'll keep it to myself...
BW mechanics is not even hard, what more about sc2?
This is not e-sports like this.... In sports, there are people who can jump high, run fast, shoot accurately or have strength, etc etc.
Mechanics of the game can compared to that..

gurrpp

United States437 Posts

July 13 2011 18:12 GMT

#165

On July 14 2011 02:56 Gurblechev wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think the way idra cries that his mechanics don't win him games automatically any more is proof enough of that.

IdrA cries about everything. He also blames his losses on lack of zerg scouting options or map design. Come up with an actual argument for why sc2 requires more strategy and I'll listen.

Also, just because broodwar requires higher mechanical skill doesn't mean it requires lesser strategical skill. The two aren't mutually exclusive in the least.

SoKHo

Korea (South)1081 Posts

July 13 2011 18:13 GMT

#166

it comes with practice. Pros are very good at determining worker count and saturation. Look at sheth, he can tell you his drone count (+- 5) in ~5 seconds by boxing all his workers

A-p-p-l-e-s

Canada314 Posts

July 13 2011 18:13 GMT

#167

it would be nice tho make the game more easy : ] im only saying this tho is because i always have like 100+ drones thinking its 70-75

gozima

Canada602 Posts

July 13 2011 18:14 GMT

#168

Please! No more dumbing down of the game! I'm still pissed everytime I see the in-game timer.

clusen

Germany8702 Posts

July 13 2011 18:20 GMT

#169

On July 14 2011 02:39 Gurblechev wrote:
Is chess difficult? Can you beat a chess grandmaster because apm is irrelevant?

Difficulty should come from the opponent, not the interface. That is what makes a good strategy game.

A RTS basically consists of 2 components: strategy and execution. And the latter will always require repetitive actions. Since most RTS are not really deep strategically (and SC2 really isn't compared to turnbased games) you have a strong emphasis on the execution part. You can't call a thing "strategy game", TBS and RTS are vastly different.

The difficulty you mention does not stem from the interface but from the fact that it has to be done in a real time environment along with other stuff and that you have to prioritize your limited amount of actions. APM is a ressource and a very core element of RTS. If you don't like it competitve RTS are not for you.

Blizzard already took many repetitive actions away to make it more fun to learn the game, but a line has to be drawn. They even made the game somewhat harder again sometime during the beta (they made rallypoints move-command and not attack)If you fail to select your workers during a game it's not the interface that is troubling you or holding you back, it is you.

According to your logic chess is not a good strategy game aswell: the difficulty does not stem from your opponent but from your own capabilites to grasp all different outcomes.

Can we now close this?

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33719 Posts

July 13 2011 18:26 GMT

#170

On July 14 2011 02:45 Gurblechev wrote:

Show nested quote +

It's actually more difficult than brood war as it involves more strategy and less repetitive clicking. Even an artificial intelligence can do repetitive clicking.

You are INCREDIBLY wrong. I like SC2, but there is no fucking way that its a harder game than SC1. Just no way, and Ive played both games at a pretty high level.

Anyway, this thread is stupid, this should never be added - count the workers manually.

On July 14 2011 02:59 Polymath wrote:

Show nested quote +

YES it does lower the skill ceiling, macroing perfectly is not easy, and was even harder in Brood War.