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Troxior
United States168 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:20 Baarn wrote: Poll: IS the OP's suggestion something the foreign community wants? No (124) Yes (15) 139 total votes Your vote: IS the OP's suggestion something the foreign community wants? Personally looking at this poll I would at the least revise my plan. Seriously rethink this, just please do it and realize the fact that as of right now BW accessibility is very high. | ||
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:37 d_so wrote: Think about it this way. Kespa doesn't even care right now. They're completely oblivious to the potential of the English market. Do you think they want to read a 6 page plan from the start, filled with minute details covering everything from forming a partnership with TL (especially TLPD) to the design of the site? It is there, and it will come. But now's not the time Why wouldnt they? It's their business on the line. They aren't going to immediately jump on board this plan just because an article was posted on Fomos. Much less so if it is so vague. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
Korean Casters> English Casters Free Vods> PPV Vods Voluntary free Streamers > PPV model for streams The financial problem of BW cant be even mitigate for this community, the last chance is China, you should put all your effort looking for a business model there. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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kdgns
United States2427 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:34 d_so wrote: if we let it go, Korean BW might die. Then everyone loses. This isn't just for the foreigners. Above everything else, I want pro BW to live on. And I don't think it can right now without some method of expansion. I would wait for companies to see the results of the Shanghai proleague, In all honesty asking for the English community to change right now its too big a leap of faith for all parties. Korean companies don't see a viable market, and English communities don't see a reliable service. China is probably your best bet to keep e-sports alive, and I would probably just sink everything into that market. Your thoughts about the English community is appreciated, but I think its a bit too early, let us do what we've been doing, and you focus on getting China down. Blizzard and Gom already got a deal with NeoTV in China for SC2, and the main broadcaster of BW in China is PLU. Go get those guys to talk to kespa. As for us, If you're gonna bring out a service where I can click a button and get VODs for free after watching one or two ads at decent quality and speed, then I'm fine with shutting down competing services. But I frankly dont see that happening at all. All I can see is you helping to shut down our streamers, with a promise of a future VOD database, at the very least it would mean no live viewing, and at worst i'll find out I'm gonna have to pay a membership fee. | ||
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Disquiet
Australia628 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:39 Black[CAT] wrote: My friends and I found the pro-bw scene tru youtube. All of a sudden, you cant see any pro-bw games on youtube no more. The scene becomes even more obscure. Besides, how many people in the world knows about kespa or even TL? Yeah I think trying to remove existing content from youtube that has been there for years would be a horribly bad idea. They should approach it slowly with a pay to view goal in the end but before that will work you need to have a site that everybody knows about and visits regularly. How many people even know where the official kespa vods are? I sure don't. They should start slowly by making all new content vods available for free, but exclusively on their site. Once they have built up a decent sized foreign fanbase on their site only then can they begin to charge for it. If they tried to remove everything from youtube and force everyone to pay right now all that would happen is they would drive off or force underground all 90% of the already dwindling foreign broodwar fans. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:44 Disquiet wrote: Yeah I think trying to remove existing content from youtube that has been there for years would be a horribly bad idea. They should approach it slowly with a pay to view goal in the end but before that will work you need to have a site that everybody knows about and visits regularly. How many people even know where the official kespa vods are? I sure don't. They should start slowly by making all new content vods available for free, but exclusively on their site. Once they have built up a decent sized foreign fanbase on their site only then can they begin to charge for it. If they tried to remove everything from youtube and force everyone to pay right now all that would happen is they would drive off or force underground all 90% of the already dwindling foreign broodwar fans. You have pay to view model on mbc. You can purchase by month as well. It's like any hbo sub. you get vods as well. its wasteful to ask for something that exists. Im just really lost why people are bitching about content you get free with little hassle currently? | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:42 palexhur wrote: Korean Casters> English Casters Free Vods> PPV Vods Voluntary free Streamers > PPV model for streams That's only the current foreign community, ie males that know how to play RTS games. Look at the korean audience that goes to watch games. See how many women there are. Why do you think they come to watch? Do you really think they would watch the game if the announcers were speaking in English? Announcers are the key for growth in the casual market. Growth in the casual market is impossible? maybe! But I think we have to try before we say it's impossible. | ||
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mima
26 Posts
More importantly, like has already been discussed over and over in this thread, the idea of having a centralized VOD archive may sound promising, but it has a lot of risks. The biggest problem is that the system needs to be at least as good as the current one. That includes both remaining free-of-charge for users and providing access to the VODs on a level similar to YouTube. This means a large initial cost, probably combined with a low short-term profit. Shutting down the current system should only be done after a service of comparable quality is available. Otherwise there is a big risk of destroying a large part of the community. P.S. You misspelt "“A Zergling for Jaedong”. | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:46 d_so wrote: That's only the current foreign community, ie males that know how to play RTS games. Look at the korean audience that goes to watch games. See how many women there are. Why do you think they come to watch? Do you really think they would watch the game if the announcers were speaking in English? Announcers are the key for growth in the casual market. Growth in the casual market is impossible? maybe! But I think we have to try before we say it's impossible. Girls are a minority in the sc2 community also and they have english casters. english casters aren't going to change that...Its a cultural thing | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:46 d_so wrote: That's only the current foreign community, ie males that know how to play RTS games. Look at the korean audience that goes to watch games. See how many women there are. Why do you think they come to watch? Do you really think they would watch the game if the announcers were speaking in English? Because the men are working, while the women have freetime, and can do what they want. | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
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MiraKul
Malaysia498 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:46 d_so wrote: That's only the current foreign community, ie males that know how to play RTS games. Look at the korean audience that goes to watch games. See how many women there are. Why do you think they come to watch? Do you really think they would watch the game if the announcers were speaking in English? Announcers are the key for growth in the casual market. Growth in the casual market is impossible? maybe! But I think we have to try before we say it's impossible. You got a degree in marketing? How do you even know ANNOUNCERS are the key for growth in a market?? Based on what? Your 1-man assumption? | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:47 mima wrote: Having English commentary would be great, but I suspect it would be very difficult to find a good English commentator. More importantly, like has already been discussed over and over in this thread, the idea of having a centralized VOD archive may sound promising, but it has a lot of risks. The biggest problem is that the system needs to be at least as good as the current one. That includes both remaining free-of-charge for users and providing access to the VODs on a level similar to YouTube. This means a large initial cost, probably combined with a low short-term profit. Shutting down the current system should only be done after a service of comparable quality is available. Otherwise there is a big risk of destroying a large part of the community. P.S. You misspelt "“A Zergling for Jaedong”. you are right in so many ways. My hope is to convince kespa that despite short term profit potential and the large initial cost, eventually it can be worth it to replicate everything nevake does plus add english casters. It's true that there is the potential for failure. Maybe kespa takes it the wrong way and jsut totally screws everything up. But maybe Kespa can do it right. I guess it's a matter of let things stagnate as they are, or take this high risk/high reward possibility. | ||
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d_so
Korea (South)3262 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:51 MiraKul wrote: You got a degree in marketing? How do you even know ANNOUNCERS are the key for growth in a market?? Based on what? Your 1-man assumption? well we are polling as we speak. The poll asks how important the live audience views casters to their viewing experience. It's not the best evidence but it's better than none. | ||
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:51 d_so wrote: you are right in so many ways. My hope is to convince kespa that despite short term profit potential and the large initial cost, eventually it can be worth it to replicate everything nevake does plus add english casters. It's true that there is the potential for failure. Maybe kespa takes it the wrong way and jsut totally screws everything up. But maybe Kespa can do it right. I guess it's a matter of let things stagnate as they are, or take this high risk/high reward possibility. When has kespa done ANYTHING right? edit: where are you doing these polls? just on the live audience? how is that applicable to the reaction of foreign audiences watching a stream/vod? | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1332 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:23 d_so wrote: well maybe you're right. Maybe nevake can exist up to the point that the new site is created. I haven't thought that through a 100 percent though. I feel that is a secondary issue that needs to be discussed if we can get Kespa to listen first. While we appreciate your enthusiasm in helping the community I think you may have misjudged the priorities of the existing bw community. I think Nevake is not just a secondary issue, but the primary issue thats driving our opinions atm. Nevake represents not just a way to view vods, but as an archive of precious bw history, NOWHERE else can you easily find an arbitrary proleague or starleague game from several years back and watch it. I think our primary concern is in fact that you are viewing this as a secondary issue. If we get Kespa to listen to the idea before sorting out the details, the risk is that this crucial archive will be lost forever. Because at this stage, there is very little Kespa can offer us on top of what we already have, and unless Kespa manages to get it exactly right (eg make vods easily accessible to our satisfaction AND keep a giant archive of historical games) then whatever they will do will likely be more destructive than constructive to the already existing infrastructure. I appreciate that the current setup with youtube in no way benefits Kespa, and I'm sure that the community would be willing voluntarily to help Kespa in any way that does not threaten the good things we already have going (eg by releasing their own vods but leaving Nevake alone, or even disallowing Nevake to upload new vods that they have, but leavign the current archive alone). I hazard to guess that the currently overwhelming negative response you have received from the community in this thread stems from the what you are asking the community to risk given how little there is we can gain. The fact of the matter is, unless and until we can be sure that Kespa will be able to provide a satisfactory service to replace what we already have, the possibility of losing Nevake poses a vital and unacceptable risk to our existing infrastructure. | ||
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kdgns
United States2427 Posts
On July 04 2011 16:46 d_so wrote: That's only the current foreign community, ie males that know how to play RTS games. Look at the korean audience that goes to watch games. See how many women there are. Why do you think they come to watch? Do you really think they would watch the game if the announcers were speaking in English? Announcers are the key for growth in the casual market. Growth in the casual market is impossible? maybe! But I think we have to try before we say it's impossible. What are you going to try? Also the women go because they are fans of the gamers, you're going to have to change a lot more than just announcers if you want foreign women to be fans of korean gamers. Right now, you have a niche market in the foreign community (male RTS players), if you want to expand that, you're going to start alienating that community, so keep that in mind. If you want our input by making a post like this, you're gonna have to tell us what we're going to get, otherwise we'll just tell you to not do anything. | ||
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
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