EPTHow much do you use cloaked units? - Page 2
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DAofCanada
Canada55 Posts
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Blackspell
United States80 Posts
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:26 Blackspell wrote: Well I'm here to learn. Thats the only reason I put up the thread not to make an incorrect statement that would piss off the regulars here. Then why did you phrase the OP as a silly statement (in which you called people dimwitted) then ask if anyone "cares to disagree"? | ||
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Chibithor
Brazil514 Posts
But yeah, your problem seems to be that you want to rush for cloak to catch your opponent off-guard to instawin, in which case any detection does indeed deter it completely. In lategame harassment or otherwise though (Cloak ghosts to get off good EMPs) it's good. | ||
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iSometric
2221 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:10 Blackspell wrote: I'm not only using cloaked units. Thats imbecilic. I'm merely suggesting that its hard to pull off an early DT harass. Title says cloaked units | ||
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Blackspell
United States80 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:28 Navillus wrote: Then why did you phrase the OP as a silly statement (in which you called people dimwitted) then ask if anyone "cares to disagree"? I never directly called anyone dimwitted. Is it not obvious to have some sort of detection? And the reason I asked if anyone cared to disagree is to hear what others had to say.... sooo I could learn.. Forgive me for not just blatantly saying "I suck with cloaked units anyone care to teach me how to be good at starcraft?" | ||
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Blackspell
United States80 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:30 Chibithor wrote: If burrow banelings count, they're pretty good. Otherwise I've found limited use for it. Lings on expands and roach burrow movement on limited occasions. But yeah, your problem seems to be that you want to rush for cloak to catch your opponent off-guard to instawin, in which case any detection does indeed deter it completely. In lategame harassment or otherwise though (Cloak ghosts to get off good EMPs) it's good. Well that's pretty much my case but not necessarily to instawin, just to apply some early harassment on my opponents workers. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:33 Blackspell wrote: I never directly called anyone dimwitted. Is it not obvious to have some sort of detection? And the reason I asked if anyone cared to disagree is hear what others had to say.... sooo I could learn.. Forgive me for not just blatantly saying "I suck with cloaked units anyone care to teach me how to be good at starcraft?" Well I just saw a VOD of Millenium Tarson losing to HuK's DT build so either you know something he doesn't or you're wrong. As to saying "I suck with cloaked units anyone care to teach me how to be good at starcraft?", that probably would have worked better. But to actually using cloaked units, well I don't know how you expect any sort of useful advice without posting a replay, build, or giving any idea as to what you're doing and losing against. If you are actually really low level though I would say cloaked units should be the last thing on your mind, just use standard builds and get better macro/micro/mechanics until diamond at least because before that your opponents can waste resources on detection without serious loss so you will lose if you rely on cloaked units. At high diamond and especially masters no one will just randomly get detection because it's a waste that could easily lose them a game. | ||
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FenneK
France1231 Posts
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blah_blah
346 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:33 Blackspell wrote:Is it not obvious to have some sort of detection? If you rush to detection you hurt your army size and worker count, so most builds get detection slower than the fastest possible DT/Banshee rushes hit at. If you scout something that is 'obviously' not a rush to cloaked units then you can delay getting detection a long time. It sounds like you just play at a very low level where players blindly get cannons and your DTs run into them and die; you should scout this and respond accordingly (i.e., expand, not build DTs). | ||
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Pamposek
Czech Republic56 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:02 Blackspell wrote: For me its just a huge waste of minerals. I was playing around with some early DT builds tonight which only ended up with a fews loses. Ghosts aside It just seems that unless you're dimwitted at this point and don't throw down either a cannon or a turret or spawn an overseer, cloaked or burrowed units should be pretty much on the back burner. Anyone care to disagree? Which league are you? Bronze? Because cloaked units are ... forcing to have some sort of detection (for example zerg will build spores at every expansion and even after that, warping 4 DTs will not save him at all, because 4 DTs will just snipe spore and then rest of stuff ...) Cloaked units as suplements to main army are just ebil, because when you don't notice, they will rip apart other army etc ... Looks like you are using cloaked units as your main army, not the way they are supposed to be used ... cheeser | ||
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Blackspell
United States80 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:47 Pamposek wrote: Which league are you? Bronze? Because cloaked units are ... forcing to have some sort of detection (for example zerg will build spores at every expansion and even after that, warping 4 DTs will not save him at all, because 4 DTs will just snipe spore and then rest of stuff ...) Cloaked units as suplements to main army are just ebil, because when you don't notice, they will rip apart other army etc ... Looks like you are using cloaked units as your main army, not the way they are supposed to be used ... cheeser Well if you went back and read some other posts before posting yourself, I already stated that I do not only use cloaked units, I was only playing around with an early DT build and that I used it to apply early harassment on my opponent. | ||
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arterian
Canada1157 Posts
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Blackspell
United States80 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:46 blah_blah wrote: If you rush to detection you hurt your army size and worker count, so most builds get detection slower than the fastest possible DT/Banshee rushes hit at. If you scout something that is 'obviously' not a rush to cloaked units then you can delay getting detection a long time. It sounds like you just play at a very low level where players blindly get cannons and your DTs run into them and die; you should scout this and respond accordingly (i.e., expand, not build DTs). Okay my OP aside, and please correct me if I'm wrong because again I'm here to learn, lets say strictly PvP. I do some sort of DT rush to apply some early pressure and my opponent has an observer. I wouldn't say that a RF or an observer would hurt an army size or worker count right? | ||
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
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Luoson
New Zealand153 Posts
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SolidSnoopy
United States21 Posts
Okay my OP aside, and please correct me if I'm wrong because again I'm here to learn, lets say strictly PvP. I do some sort of DT rush to apply some early pressure and my opponent has an observer. I wouldn't say that a RF or an observer would hurt an army size or worker count right? you hafta think of each matchup in terms of what you can scout and what your opponent is doing. you shouldnt just say things like "well if i'm going to dt rush and he has a robo and obs out already then it would be bad." if you scout that your opponent will have early detection, obviously dont try to dt rush him. if you scout that your opponent is being greedy then a dt rush can pay off. you cant cater one build to different situations | ||
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blah_blah
346 Posts
On June 19 2011 18:00 Blackspell wrote: Okay my OP aside, and please correct me if I'm wrong because again I'm here to learn, lets say strictly PvP. I do some sort of DT rush to apply some early pressure and my opponent has an observer. I wouldn't say that a RF or an observer would hurt an army size or worker count right? Sure it does. If your opponent goes fast robo + observer first blindly then he will die if you went for a 4gate or blink stalkers. It's 225 minerals and 175 gas spent when your opponent is throwing all their money into units. | ||
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Blackspell
United States80 Posts
On June 19 2011 18:19 blah_blah wrote: Sure it does. If your opponent goes fast robo + observer first blindly then he will die if you went for a 4gate or blink stalkers. It's 225 minerals and 175 gas spent when your opponent is throwing all their money into units. So as a protoss player, it would be incorrect for me to have an early robo + observer to scout and, if the need arises, have it for detection? | ||
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algorithm0r
Canada486 Posts
LOL. Burrowed roach/burrowed infestor can be really good, but doesn't actually count as cloaked in my mind. DTs are absurdly good, in army, or late game is best.... | ||
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