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United States22883 Posts
On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is.
I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count.
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On June 19 2011 00:32 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 23:24 Probe1 wrote:I switch to my other tab and notice LoL with 80k+ viewers.
It's the biggest League of Legends event of the whole year. They'll never have numbers remotely close to this again until next year. Look at the facts bro. They have these insane numbers DESPITE very poor feature set for esports: no spec mode, no reps, no demos, no TV-mode. the devs fail terribly at delivering esport-oriented content, and yet the viewer count is insanely high. there can be no doubt: LoL is the ultimate esport game.
It is pretty shocking how slowly they have developed LoL. I wonder if it's the limitations of Adobe Air as a platform or something. They seriously rake in money hand over feet but don't seem to show much for it. They are like a mini Blizzard
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On June 19 2011 00:11 Aggnog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:04 xarthaz wrote:On June 18 2011 22:11 BlindGamer wrote:
Once we get the next Quake-esque game, I think that will be the next explosion in e-sports.
Starcraft will grow and grow, as well as all the other titles, but if there were some kind of casually-playable game, like CoD, that could also somehow be played to the standard/competitiveness of Quake (whether it be 1v1 or 5v5 etc), there would be a built in audience of hundreds of thousands of people with the proper support/advertising of the creators Wrong. Quake is dead. Fast hard games are dead, no one wants to play these any more. There are excellent well polished balanced quake games with modern engines - quakeworld, warsow, painkiller. no one watches these because no one playes these. the quake learning curve is way too brutal for casuals so with the availability of "tactical" shooters the hardcore fast shooters will never be popular again. All those games you listed are way worse than any of the classic competitive multiplayer shooters that still have tournaments today. They are way more advanced in strategy and learning curve than the "competitive" fps games. Which proves my point. The age of hardcore games is over. Theyre a legacy of the 90s, and theyre dead. Back then the genre was young and devs didnt fully understand what consumers want, but players put up with it because it was new and fresh. Now it isnt any more, so consumers choose the most enjoyable experience - low learning curve easy games like cs, cod, bf, quake live.
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On June 19 2011 00:36 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:32 xarthaz wrote:On June 18 2011 23:24 Probe1 wrote:I switch to my other tab and notice LoL with 80k+ viewers.
It's the biggest League of Legends event of the whole year. They'll never have numbers remotely close to this again until next year. Look at the facts bro. They have these insane numbers DESPITE very poor feature set for esports: no spec mode, no reps, no demos, no TV-mode. the devs fail terribly at delivering esport-oriented content, and yet the viewer count is insanely high. there can be no doubt: LoL is the ultimate esport game. It is pretty shocking how slowly they have developed LoL. I wonder if it's the limitations of Adobe Air as a platform or something. They seriously rake in money hand over feet but don't seem to show much for it. They are like a mini Blizzard
Yes, they are limitated by their poor client and structuring. They never imagined LoL to grow so fast und big and build a rather amateurish infrastructure/client in the beginning and now they have to pay for it.
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On June 19 2011 00:30 Aggnog wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL communities moving at double the rate of TL during peak?
I don't doubt that LoL's numbers are pretty damn substantial and more power to them. But big numbers like that leave a trail. Not to mention the 1000+ page threads per day we had during MLG.
eh LoL general forums have about that kind of traffic right now I'd say, I obviously don't have numbers to confirm but imagine a 1000 different topics started right now and just spread out those posts... however team liquid is not the only site with discussion of MLG, MLG itself, other forums etc...
League of Legends doesn't have the community sites that Starcraft does, however, I prefer team liquid, League of Legends sub-forum as my place to discuss the games going on, and general day to day game news, game discussion etc, it has the highest quality discussion and also most interesting discussion... go figure.
Obviously post quality is not as high as TL on general forums, no one is claiming it is,(however post quality on TL during live reports leaves something to be desired now) with the number of people your dealing with and the type of players, think battle net forums, that's a given. Idk why people are posting all this bs and random untrue facts about LoL, no one was in here claiming that LoL is a more competitive or better game than SC2, i certainly think SCBW is the more competitive game but that's just me, just that it's very popular and the stream count is legit(or at least close too). Make of it what you will, I personally take it as a great sign for e-sports in general, as a League of Legends player, it's a good sign we might see some more competitive tournaments and spectator mode is a huge hit.
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On June 19 2011 00:34 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is. I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count.
Yes. A game just ended with this Xan team winning and there's already pages of threads http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2
It's a legitimately huge game, partly because of the economic power of "free" and because it brought Dota to a level that so many people can enjoy. I think the conspiracy talk can be put to rest.
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League of legends stream at Dreamhack is pulling over 140,000 viewers. Pretty insane.
I think this has something to do with the fact that the game makers are the ones putting a lot of effort into this and getting people to watch. When/if you log into league of legends the whole screen shows details about the tournament and then asks if you want to watch... probably where they are getting so many viewers from.
In comparison casuals on Sc2 right now may not even know that Dreamhack is going on right now.
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Right now Day9's Dreamhack channel has 40,000 viewers, + 20,000 more between all the other streams.
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On June 19 2011 00:39 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:34 Jibba wrote:On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is. I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count. Yes. A game just ended with this Xan team winning and there's already pages of threads http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2It's a legitimately huge game, partly because of the economic power of "free" and because it brought Dota to a level that so many people can enjoy. I think the conspiracy talk can be put to rest.
Well a page full of threads is because they have no community moderation, if you combine all those threads together it's just one topic. (one of the things I hate about LoL forums, community moderation, ugh)
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On June 19 2011 00:34 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is. I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count.
the only really active community part of league of legends are the official LoL forums. The forums move so quickly there even when there is NOTHING going on to the point where you can refresh 10 seconds after posting something in the general forum and not find it. You're looking for the equivalent of a tightly nit and tightly moderated community such as TL and you will not be able to make that comparison. There are no LR threads, but if there were you'd see the pages moving faster than those at MLG/TSL3 did. When there are serious bug complaints or drama coming from the LoL community, that's when you see single threads exceed the posting rate that TL saw during the TSL. It's a different gaming culture than that of SC2, you can't compare the two and hope to draw meaningful conclusions because they don't work in the same way.
People post new threads rather than contributing to existing ones because there is no fear of bans and no expectations set of the posters on the LoL forums. They operate similar to that of the WoW forums in that regard.
145k viewers now btw
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United States22883 Posts
On June 19 2011 00:39 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:34 Jibba wrote:On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is. I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count. Yes. A game just ended with this Xan team winning and there's already pages of threads http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2It's a legitimately huge game, partly because of the economic power of "free" and because it brought Dota to a level that so many people can enjoy. I think the conspiracy talk can be put to rest.
Thanks, that's what I was looking for, except it won't load now. o.o When I was looking at that specific subforum before, though, the number of threads was high but the posts/views weren't.
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I still have doubts over any esports scene being able to rival the Korean BW scene any time soon. It would be nice for SC2 to pick up over there a little and get some large corporate sponsors and government support.
The WC3 scene in China seems to be getting quite a bit of attention from the government, which seems pretty active in promoting esports.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On June 19 2011 00:45 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:39 floor exercise wrote:On June 19 2011 00:34 Jibba wrote:On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is. I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count. Yes. A game just ended with this Xan team winning and there's already pages of threads http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2It's a legitimately huge game, partly because of the economic power of "free" and because it brought Dota to a level that so many people can enjoy. I think the conspiracy talk can be put to rest. Thanks, that's what I was looking for, except it won't load now. o.o When I was looking at that specific subforum before, though, the number of threads was high but the posts/views weren't.
Thats the thing in my opinion, League of Legends promotes there game/E-sports by throwing it in your face at the login screen, people who have never been on the League of Legends forums or Solomid.net tune in out of curiosity, casuals tune in out of curiosity. Which leads to such a high viewer count and thus interest.
They have no need of a website as teamliquid or such because they simply attract people through the actual game rather then a forum outside of the game.
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On June 19 2011 00:47 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:45 Jibba wrote:On June 19 2011 00:39 floor exercise wrote:On June 19 2011 00:34 Jibba wrote:On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is. I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count. Yes. A game just ended with this Xan team winning and there's already pages of threads http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2It's a legitimately huge game, partly because of the economic power of "free" and because it brought Dota to a level that so many people can enjoy. I think the conspiracy talk can be put to rest. Thanks, that's what I was looking for, except it won't load now. o.o When I was looking at that specific subforum before, though, the number of threads was high but the posts/views weren't. Thats the thing in my opinion, League of Legends promotes there game/E-sports by throwing it in your face at the login screen, people who have never been on the League of Legends forums or Solomid.net tune in out of curiosity, casuals tune in out of curiosity. Which leads to such a high viewer count and thus interest. They have no need of a website as teamliquid or such because they simply attract people through the actual game rather then a forum outside of the game.
I think you're missing the point of TL...
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On June 19 2011 00:51 waffleduck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 00:47 Kipsate wrote:On June 19 2011 00:45 Jibba wrote:On June 19 2011 00:39 floor exercise wrote:On June 19 2011 00:34 Jibba wrote:On June 19 2011 00:29 LoLAdriankat wrote:On June 19 2011 00:26 Jibba wrote:
100,000 people don't spontaneously start watching a stream. If they're getting those kinds of active viewers (and not the background client viewing that people have said LoL uses), they'd be talking about it somewhere. Are there any LoL forums moving at double the rate of TL during peak? Solomid.net is the TL equivalent for LoL, and it's not nearly as active as TL. However, the official LoL forums is MUCH more active than TL (at least 3x more active than TL atm, I'd say), which shows how huge the casual fanbase of LoL is. I understand the community is huge, but are the forums actively moving as people talk about the matches? Aside from the fact that the website is still online, I'm looking at the forums and there's nothing comparable. It's like if you said 100,000 people went to a football match, but afterwards in the stadium there wasn't trash strewn everywhere and the bins were only half full. There has to be more evidence than just the viewer count. Yes. A game just ended with this Xan team winning and there's already pages of threads http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2It's a legitimately huge game, partly because of the economic power of "free" and because it brought Dota to a level that so many people can enjoy. I think the conspiracy talk can be put to rest. Thanks, that's what I was looking for, except it won't load now. o.o When I was looking at that specific subforum before, though, the number of threads was high but the posts/views weren't. Thats the thing in my opinion, League of Legends promotes there game/E-sports by throwing it in your face at the login screen, people who have never been on the League of Legends forums or Solomid.net tune in out of curiosity, casuals tune in out of curiosity. Which leads to such a high viewer count and thus interest. They have no need of a website as teamliquid or such because they simply attract people through the actual game rather then a forum outside of the game. I think you're missing the point of TL...
hmm? I am fairly certian that SC2 needs Teamliquid, it is by the largest SC2 community E-sports website there is in the ''West'' (Dunno how large PlayXP is ) but Teamliquid garners interest, hype etc which is all very important to SC2, it gives people access to SC2 streams, tournaments, hype, information.
League of legends does it by showing you at the login screen.
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I don't think he meant that the game doesn't need a forum with a higher standard of posting where people can discuss the competitive aspect of the game. (I think most of us can agree that every game should have a tl, or in this case we just use team liquids awesome subforum as our league of legends "team liquid"
I think he meant that the game does not a team liquid to promote the game's competition itself, because Riot is specifically making sure it does not need a middle man to promote this competition, they are doing tons of promoting it themselves. I've been hearing and seeing things about season one for over a year and a half now, so this is a pretty big tournament, not just dreamhack like it is for starcraft.
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On June 18 2011 19:01 TheAwesomeAll wrote:Dreamhack is competing with the gsl finals atm, lets not forget. Also, im not sure about this, but some people say that everyone who logs onto LoL will get the stream. edit: im pretty sure people logging in to LoL will automatically connect to the stream.Riot games uses 'Pando Media Booster' Show nested quote +The Pando Media Booster is a tiny (2MB) UI-less client that enables you to cost effectively stream full-screen HD video by leveraging your viewer's collective spare bandwidth. Running as a secure transparent background service on your viewer's computer, the Media Booster optimizes video streams by intelligently streaming your videos from multiple sources; your CDN servers as well as the computer's of other viewers ("Peer Cloud"). messing with the viewer count. End of the thread imo
this is bs basically. open up a net meter, theres no bandwidth hogging by lol. it is very low bandwidth as expected, a few kilobytes per sec.
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There's a much bigger base for a free game that's easier to follow and more accessible to the mass. That plus a lot of people who follow DotA, HoN or LoL follow all of them to some extent. Population spread over 3 games that are more easily accessible makes sense to have a big total following.
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Its quite simple.
1- I love LoL.
2- Never seen competitive LoL or any kind of interaction with high level players.
3- Very rare to get the opportunity to watch such a stream.
4- Saturday afternoon.
5- Raining outside.
Its very difficult to view high level play in LoL due to the design's limitations, no replays, VoDs etc; hence the second everyone can grab some insight on how high level matchs work, they jump on it, I myself have had the stream on all day.
Compare that to SC2 where no-one gives a sh*t about watching live because you can get all the replays and/or commentaries the next day.
Boom, there's your 150k viewers.
Also, can someone explain why LoL is so much easier than HoN ? High level ELO seems pretty strategic to me, and I've never played HoN fyi so I'm genuinely curious.
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Kind of annoys me that everyone is calling LoL Casual. What does that even mean? How does one qualify a game as 'casual'? Because they removed some of the more annoying\harder to control mechanics from Dota, such as denying, LoL is suddenly a casual game and not worthy of the hardened e-sports core?
I Would actually goes as far as to say by my definition of casual, Starcraft (2) is a lot more geared towards casual, and more 'casual' friendly, than LoL. Not that that is a bad thing, it just is what it is. To learn a MOBA/Dota game like LoL and get past the level of complete "WTF I have no idea what just happened" you basically need to learn all the heroes, and all their 4 abilities + 1 passive, and there are like what 50+ heroes and a ton of items, so getting over the initial learning curve for LoL is a lot harder than Sc2 where you need to know the fewer and simpler units.
Obviously Sc2 has probably more depth strategically, and has like a looooooooooooooooooooottttttttt more room in terms of mechanics, but that does not make LoL casual friendly. Moba games are always very casual unfriendly in my opinion because of the way the community and the games work, and any new player is flamed and wished death upon for every game they enter.
That being said, LoL is still far from any form players performing perfectly, or any form of skill cap, and as other casual friendlygames ( take WoW Arena as an example) that tons of esports veterans flame, and throw away as 'jokes' because they are not as mechanically challenging as an FPS or a RTS, still will Never ever ever have any lone/single player reaching the 'skill cap' always playing perfectly and never making a mistake. Add that to the fact that this is not a single playing game, but the most important part of it is team play not the performance of a single player, and the "skillcap" is even more impossible to reach.
Looking at the games casted today, all of these players are the top of the LoL community basically, many of which practice several hours a day (Like several.) and there are still tons of mistakes being made, and some teams simply dominate others because they are better, even though they are both good teams\players. So are you saying absolutely all of the LoL players are just worse overall gamers than Starcraft players, and if a half decent starcraft player decided to move to LoL he would just instantly crush face and become the top of all brackets and tournaments? If this is the case then why dont 'you' just start A LoL team and dominate the world, I mean dreamhack is just 1 event\tournament and it has a 100k(?) prizepool.
On June 19 2011 01:08 Nqsty wrote:
Its very difficult to view high level play in LoL due to the design's limitations, no replays, VoDs etc; hence the second everyone can grab some insight on how high level matchs work, they jump on it, I myself have had the stream on all day.
Compare that to SC2 where no-one gives a sh*t about watching live because you can get all the replays and/or commentaries the next day.
Boom, there's your 150k viewers.
Just throwing out a guess here but i think probably like 70-80+% of the people watching the streams are watching them more for entertainment value than to get insight on how high level matchs works (e.g more educational value), no?
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EPT
