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Root cause is because riot is support esports itself, while blizzard is letting the community run sc2. To be honest id much rather have community running it as its growth and eventualy plateau is much higher but it means we will start out a little slower. And dont tell me we started with broodwar, yes there are broodwar fans watching sc2 but i think at this point we have to come to the conclusion that more people are new to sc2 and are fans therefore we simply have to attract more people. Which we are, Dreamhack has 50 k viewers at 10 am, europe is all over sc2, and north america is growing a little slower but still growing.
Last but not least, we have 100 different streams we can watch at any given time. LoL has way less pros, as far as i know from trying to watch it and way more players because its free. SC2 and LoL dont have mutually exclusive fans, and when LoL is on its rare and special.
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On June 19 2011 01:28 SnetteL wrote:I played lol (until about a month or 3 ago) and i was quite high ranked on EU (top 100) but i can never see it grow like SC. They patch the damn thing every week and tbh, it's not as entertaining to watch as sc2 at all. It's fun to play because it's a chill, low APM game but if you don't have enough friends you'll get tired of it quite quickly because like any gamer community, the community is awful. But playing 5on5 with friends is really a lot of fun  . edit: for lol players wanting to know how high elo works; IMHO it's all about thinking, strategy. You need to filter every bit of info out of everything you can see and make decisions accordingly, being at the right place at the right time, that's what it's all about.
well put.
i was tl ezpzlmnsqz 2k elo on NA server. but the attitude of LoL players is terrible and there are no replays or any functionality in the competitive scene, like for tounaments people literally type out their picks and bans then screen shot it , then post it to a shitty site such as esl . not tho mention ranked 5s is dead and solo Q is a joke
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You can see parallels between the rise of SCBW in Korea and the rise of LoL in EU/NA. Both games were VERY accessible when they first debuted. Read the bolded part of this post from MrHoon on why SC2 was (and still is) slow on the uptake in Korea:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288
Number Five” : Everyone in Korea are casual gamers.
Most of you new guys come from kotaku, destructoid, gamefaqs, ign, gametrailers, something awful and hell even 4chan. But one of the most common misconceptions foreign gamers have about Korean gamers is that “Koreans are all Hardcore players”
This is false in every way possible. Gaming in Korea is not a hobby, but a culture. People in Korea play games to relieve stress because they already drink and smoke a lot. Many people in Korea play games to enjoy not win. What Blizzard is doing is shoving ESPORTS down Korea (and everywhere else)'s throat not gaming.
The order should not be Esport → Everyone get's all competitive → Even my mom plays SC2!
NO! It should be the other fucking way around
Even my mom plays SC2! → Everyone get's all competitive → ESPORTSSSSSSSSS
When Blizzard said they were aiming for Esports, I knew this game wouldn't do AS well. How can a game be A+++++++ BW quality when they aim for Esports instead of game quality?
When you go to Korea and tell a bunch of casual gamers who played games for fun that 'this is the best new competitive game ever and your blood will boil', who the fuck would buy it?
That bolded part is exactly what is in effect here with LoL. Tons of casual players play it, and now they've got the chance to see the Superbowl of LoL this weekend, and they can discuss it with their friends because their friends play too.
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I don't see why people want to shit on LoL every chance they get. Yeah, mechanically and strategically its not as impressive, but great teamwork is a skill on its own. Quake Live is incredibly demanding skill-wise, constantly hitting solid rockets and rails is very difficult. Halo, on the other hand, is much easier in that sense. Kill counts are much higher and headshots are easy. Halo comes down to strong teamwork over individual skill, which completely makes sense in a team game versus an individual game.
I've played CS 1.6 (CAL-M), Halo 3 (high 40s in MLG matchmaking), and Starcraft 2 (top 300-400 when I was active) all competitively and each one requires different skills.
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On June 19 2011 01:43 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 01:29 Greem wrote:On June 19 2011 01:09 Earll wrote:Kind of annoys me that everyone is calling LoL Casual. What does that even mean? How does one qualify a game as 'casual'? Because they removed some of the more annoying\harder to control mechanics from Dota, such as denying, LoL is suddenly a casual game and not worthy of the hardened e-sports core? I Would actually goes as far as to say by my definition of casual, Starcraft (2) is a lot more geared towards casual, and more 'casual' friendly, than LoL. Not that that is a bad thing, it just is what it is. To learn a MOBA/Dota game like LoL and get past the level of complete "WTF I have no idea what just happened" you basically need to learn all the heroes, and all their 4 abilities + 1 passive, and there are like what 50+ heroes and a ton of items, so getting over the initial learning curve for LoL is a lot harder than Sc2 where you need to know the fewer and simpler units. Obviously Sc2 has probably more depth strategically, and has like a looooooooooooooooooooottttttttt more room in terms of mechanics, but that does not make LoL casual friendly. Moba games are always very casual unfriendly in my opinion because of the way the community and the games work, and any new player is flamed and wished death upon for every game they enter. That being said, LoL is still far from any form players performing perfectly, or any form of skill cap, and as other casual friendlygames ( take WoW Arena as an example) that tons of esports veterans flame, and throw away as 'jokes' because they are not as mechanically challenging as an FPS or a RTS, still will Never ever ever have any lone/single player reaching the 'skill cap' always playing perfectly and never making a mistake. Add that to the fact that this is not a single playing game, but the most important part of it is team play not the performance of a single player, and the "skillcap" is even more impossible to reach. Looking at the games casted today, all of these players are the top of the LoL community basically, many of which practice several hours a day (Like several.) and there are still tons of mistakes being made, and some teams simply dominate others because they are better, even though they are both good teams\players. So are you saying absolutely all of the LoL players are just worse overall gamers than Starcraft players, and if a half decent starcraft player decided to move to LoL he would just instantly crush face and become the top of all brackets and tournaments? If this is the case then why dont 'you' just start A LoL team and dominate the world, I mean dreamhack is just 1 event\tournament and it has a 100k(?) prizepool. On June 19 2011 01:08 Nqsty wrote:
Its very difficult to view high level play in LoL due to the design's limitations, no replays, VoDs etc; hence the second everyone can grab some insight on how high level matchs work, they jump on it, I myself have had the stream on all day.
Compare that to SC2 where no-one gives a sh*t about watching live because you can get all the replays and/or commentaries the next day.
Boom, there's your 150k viewers.
Just throwing out a guess here but i think probably like 70-80+% of the people watching the streams are watching them more for entertainment value than to get insight on how high level matchs works (e.g more educational value), no? I call the game casual when to learn it and be able to compete in high level you'll need around a week or even few days. I would qualify LoL as one of those games. For example in SC2 in 1 week you'd still be in bronze league, even after month of playing you won't pass diamond level, its takes time, patience and a lot of practice. I got nothing against LoL , or any other game, if you like it, go play it. You simply cannot compare the difficulty of SC2 to LoL, where you control a unit with 4 abilities i mean , do you really need to hear why ? "Sc2 has probably more depth strategically" Probably ? It definitively got more depth, its RTS for a reason. As i said if you like the game , go ahead play it.But comparing LoL and SC2 its like comparing chess and checkers. On the other hand i don't really care if numbers are real, i'd like to see DH total numbers from all the stream from all the games, because in the end that what matters for eSports to continue to grow. SC2 has more depth with a single race than all of the characters of LoL combined. I played LoL until a few months ago and after I played all of the characters it got real boring real fast. Just having 4 abilities is a huge limiting factor esports wise. LoL would need you to control all 5 of the characters 1v1 instead of 5v5 for it to be able to compete with sc2.
See now that is just plain wrong, no more than 10 different weapons and/or 10 maps are used in CS, and the game was NEVER boring at high level play.
Calling (4+1)*~60 different abilities a limiting factor can't be correct, quite the contrary it opens up to huge amounts of different team fight initiations, comps, gameplays, and strategies.
For now team fights are quite sloppy, but I can really imagine them becoming much more fine tuned in the future, giving some really good entertainment as an e-sport, and difficulty/skillcaps for plays
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On June 19 2011 01:29 Greem wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 01:09 Earll wrote:Kind of annoys me that everyone is calling LoL Casual. What does that even mean? How does one qualify a game as 'casual'? Because they removed some of the more annoying\harder to control mechanics from Dota, such as denying, LoL is suddenly a casual game and not worthy of the hardened e-sports core? I Would actually goes as far as to say by my definition of casual, Starcraft (2) is a lot more geared towards casual, and more 'casual' friendly, than LoL. Not that that is a bad thing, it just is what it is. To learn a MOBA/Dota game like LoL and get past the level of complete "WTF I have no idea what just happened" you basically need to learn all the heroes, and all their 4 abilities + 1 passive, and there are like what 50+ heroes and a ton of items, so getting over the initial learning curve for LoL is a lot harder than Sc2 where you need to know the fewer and simpler units. Obviously Sc2 has probably more depth strategically, and has like a looooooooooooooooooooottttttttt more room in terms of mechanics, but that does not make LoL casual friendly. Moba games are always very casual unfriendly in my opinion because of the way the community and the games work, and any new player is flamed and wished death upon for every game they enter. That being said, LoL is still far from any form players performing perfectly, or any form of skill cap, and as other casual friendlygames ( take WoW Arena as an example) that tons of esports veterans flame, and throw away as 'jokes' because they are not as mechanically challenging as an FPS or a RTS, still will Never ever ever have any lone/single player reaching the 'skill cap' always playing perfectly and never making a mistake. Add that to the fact that this is not a single playing game, but the most important part of it is team play not the performance of a single player, and the "skillcap" is even more impossible to reach. Looking at the games casted today, all of these players are the top of the LoL community basically, many of which practice several hours a day (Like several.) and there are still tons of mistakes being made, and some teams simply dominate others because they are better, even though they are both good teams\players. So are you saying absolutely all of the LoL players are just worse overall gamers than Starcraft players, and if a half decent starcraft player decided to move to LoL he would just instantly crush face and become the top of all brackets and tournaments? If this is the case then why dont 'you' just start A LoL team and dominate the world, I mean dreamhack is just 1 event\tournament and it has a 100k(?) prizepool. On June 19 2011 01:08 Nqsty wrote:
Its very difficult to view high level play in LoL due to the design's limitations, no replays, VoDs etc; hence the second everyone can grab some insight on how high level matchs work, they jump on it, I myself have had the stream on all day.
Compare that to SC2 where no-one gives a sh*t about watching live because you can get all the replays and/or commentaries the next day.
Boom, there's your 150k viewers.
Just throwing out a guess here but i think probably like 70-80+% of the people watching the streams are watching them more for entertainment value than to get insight on how high level matchs works (e.g more educational value), no? I call the game casual when to learn it and be able to compete in high level you'll need around a week or even few days. I would qualify LoL as one of those games. For example in SC2 in 1 week you'd still be in bronze league, even after month of playing you won't pass diamond level, its takes time, patience and a lot of practice. I got nothing against LoL , or any other game, if you like it, go play it. You simply cannot compare the difficulty of SC2 to LoL, where you control a unit with 4 abilities i mean , do you really need to hear why ? "Sc2 has probably more depth strategically" Probably ? It definitively got more depth, its RTS for a reason. As i said if you like the game , go ahead play it.But comparing LoL and SC2 its like comparing chess and checkers. On the other hand i don't really care if numbers are real, i'd like to see DH total numbers from all the stream from all the games, because in the end that what matters for eSports to continue to grow.
If you can compete at the highest level after a few weeks, then how do you explain some teams (like CLG) dominating other 'pro' teams, who have practiced/played the game for tons of hours a day, for several months, and even the best of the best\top teams like CLG make a lot of mistakes and bad calls now and then, so even they have room for improvement. Do all these players just suck and every single LoL player is just bad at games compared to every decent starcraft player? And if this is true and LoL is so easy to master, then why don't you just gather 5 nonretarded mates and win every event, as you can become a top tier player after like a week?
And I mean sc2 probably has more depth than LoL as they both have more depth than any of us can grasp. 10 heroes in each game, 4/5 abiltiies per hero, 50+ heroes and tons of items leads to a Huge amount of variety and knowing how everything performs against everything else in all scenarios is something no human will ever be able to do.
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The thing is a lot of people are missing.
League of Legends is not balanced, and can be swayed by things outside of player skil...
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This might have been posted about earlier in the thread but regarding the actual advertisement for the stream in LoL this is what you're faced with as you logon to the game:
+ Show Spoiler +
So that probably is a very contributing factor to the large viewer count (in contrast to the smaller advertisementspace that DH gets from sc2).
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On June 19 2011 01:33 Legatus Lanius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 01:21 InvXXVII wrote:On June 18 2011 18:56 GizmoPT wrote:
Its a free and easier game off course it will attract more people than starcraft xD It's free and easier, and that is why it will not attract more people than SCII. It requires less commitment and mental stimulation, and that is exactly why people will tend to be less passionate towards this game. And given that it is easier to play, I have found that it is also easier to get bored while playing it. if thats true, then why has sc2 attracted more people than bw despite requiring less commitment?
It really hasn't.
I'm almost sure that more BW games are played around the world than SC2 games.
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On June 18 2011 22:30 floor exercise wrote:
"esports is the greatest man, let's grow esports, gotta support that esports. Stop hurting esports man, we need to get esports into the olympics. What's that, League of Legends has more viewers? That game's not an esport fuck that casual game for newbies, it's only popular because it's easier to play than dota"
funniest shit ever and very accurate. 
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On June 19 2011 01:58 Proxity wrote:
The thing is a lot of people are missing.
League of Legends is not balanced, and can be swayed by things outside of player skil...
SC2 is not balanced either, and can also be swayed by things outside of player skill.
You can't really make a straight comparison of the games.
One is a teamgame, the other is not.
One is a RTS, the other is not.
and thats just the top of the iceberg.
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On June 18 2011 23:03 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 22:37 freddievercetti wrote:
I think the main problem with LoL in eSports is the asymmetrical warfare and RPG system inherent in MOBA games.
All the different heroes make up for alot of different comboes in game, while in Starcraft is fairly balanced around 3 races. I'm not totally sure but I think this contributes to imbalanced situations in the game sometimes, as well as some heroes not being great picks at all, or certain heroes being a good pick no matter the matchup.
The MOBA games start out with your hero at level which is fine, similar to how RTS games start out with your worker building and some workers. But the problem is that MOBA games concentrate effort on improving the hero, while Starcraft is about expanding and getting more stuff, or getting in a timing attack to kill of your opponent, which is easier to translate into lategame power for non-player audiences. Tastosis and Wolf/Moletrap and Day[9] help make it easier for the non-player audience to understand why players are doing what they are doing and why they are doing it.
SC2 is alot of fun to watch and my sister loves to watch large battles not that she knows whats happening, as well as the various harassments and drops and landmines and things in SC2. Its just easy to get into since she doesn't play the game. MOBA games she just likes to see the character screens what heroes I pick and such forth. Are you trying to argue that LoL is harder to understand as a spectator than SC2 and therefore it is not very attractive for viewers? Well sorry man, that's quite obviously not the case. 130,000 viewers. LoL is very easy to understand for a spectator. I had no trouble watching it without any previous experience in MOBAs. (DotA and HoN on the other hand... lol I still can't see shit when I watch those, and I got plenty of LoL experience under my belt by now) Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 23:02 Novalisk wrote:
I think the only conclusion we can get from this is that Blizzard should take notes from Riot on how to promote their game. Fun fact: Riot has not been doing very well at promoting tournaments just until now.
No its just that the gametype is too centric around heroes and building their items. Alot of the time its sort of boring watching players creep and go back and forth before initiating, trying to zone control each other. The items are located in heroes inventory, so they buff the hero up, as opposed to building a larger army in starcraft. Its much more exciting for a non-player to watch a large Starcraft battle or constant harrassment then it is to look at 10 heroes, located around different parts of the map. My sister hardly watches LoL when I play but does like watching the occasional Starcraft because it is just more exciting, especially when Tastosis casts on GomTV during the lull periods. She doesn't play computer games at all and this is what I feel is the problem for MOBA games for attracting non-player viewers.
Sort of like how we watch hockey games even though we don't play hockey games or even understand some of the rules behind it. Its just exciting to watch.
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On June 19 2011 02:01 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 01:33 Legatus Lanius wrote:On June 19 2011 01:21 InvXXVII wrote:On June 18 2011 18:56 GizmoPT wrote:
Its a free and easier game off course it will attract more people than starcraft xD It's free and easier, and that is why it will not attract more people than SCII. It requires less commitment and mental stimulation, and that is exactly why people will tend to be less passionate towards this game. And given that it is easier to play, I have found that it is also easier to get bored while playing it. if thats true, then why has sc2 attracted more people than bw despite requiring less commitment? It really hasn't. I'm almost sure that more BW games are played around the world than SC2 games.
lawl no
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On June 19 2011 02:01 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 01:33 Legatus Lanius wrote:On June 19 2011 01:21 InvXXVII wrote:On June 18 2011 18:56 GizmoPT wrote:
Its a free and easier game off course it will attract more people than starcraft xD It's free and easier, and that is why it will not attract more people than SCII. It requires less commitment and mental stimulation, and that is exactly why people will tend to be less passionate towards this game. And given that it is easier to play, I have found that it is also easier to get bored while playing it. if thats true, then why has sc2 attracted more people than bw despite requiring less commitment? It really hasn't. I'm almost sure that more BW games are played around the world than SC2 games.
insert 'in america' after 'people'
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On June 19 2011 02:05 freddievercetti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2011 23:03 spinesheath wrote:On June 18 2011 22:37 freddievercetti wrote:
I think the main problem with LoL in eSports is the asymmetrical warfare and RPG system inherent in MOBA games.
All the different heroes make up for alot of different comboes in game, while in Starcraft is fairly balanced around 3 races. I'm not totally sure but I think this contributes to imbalanced situations in the game sometimes, as well as some heroes not being great picks at all, or certain heroes being a good pick no matter the matchup.
The MOBA games start out with your hero at level which is fine, similar to how RTS games start out with your worker building and some workers. But the problem is that MOBA games concentrate effort on improving the hero, while Starcraft is about expanding and getting more stuff, or getting in a timing attack to kill of your opponent, which is easier to translate into lategame power for non-player audiences. Tastosis and Wolf/Moletrap and Day[9] help make it easier for the non-player audience to understand why players are doing what they are doing and why they are doing it.
SC2 is alot of fun to watch and my sister loves to watch large battles not that she knows whats happening, as well as the various harassments and drops and landmines and things in SC2. Its just easy to get into since she doesn't play the game. MOBA games she just likes to see the character screens what heroes I pick and such forth. Are you trying to argue that LoL is harder to understand as a spectator than SC2 and therefore it is not very attractive for viewers? Well sorry man, that's quite obviously not the case. 130,000 viewers. LoL is very easy to understand for a spectator. I had no trouble watching it without any previous experience in MOBAs. (DotA and HoN on the other hand... lol I still can't see shit when I watch those, and I got plenty of LoL experience under my belt by now) On June 18 2011 23:02 Novalisk wrote:
I think the only conclusion we can get from this is that Blizzard should take notes from Riot on how to promote their game. Fun fact: Riot has not been doing very well at promoting tournaments just until now. No its just that the gametype is too centric around heroes and building their items. Alot of the time its sort of boring watching players creep and go back and forth before initiating, trying to zone control each other. The items are located in heroes inventory, so they buff the hero up, as opposed to building a larger army in starcraft. Its much more exciting for a non-player to watch a large Starcraft battle or constant harrassment then it is to look at 10 heroes, located around different parts of the map. My sister hardly watches LoL when I play but does like watching the occasional Starcraft because it is just more exciting, especially when Tastosis casts on GomTV during the lull periods. She doesn't play computer games at all and this is what I feel is the problem for MOBA games for attracting non-player viewers. Sort of like how we watch hockey games even though we don't play hockey games or even understand some of the rules behind it. Its just exciting to watch.
The only problem with your arguement is that she watches Tasteless cast therefore the whole argument becomes invalid
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LoL is so boring to watch. Watching halo at mlg is more exciting..
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Can't we just all be happy that e-sports is becoming bigger and bigger!!! I dont play LoL myself, but i think its awesome another game has more viewers than our beloved eagle stream!
The more games, the more streams, the more viewers, the bigger esports becomes. And each and everyone single game involved will benefit from it
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On June 19 2011 02:09 shoJu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 02:05 freddievercetti wrote:On June 18 2011 23:03 spinesheath wrote:On June 18 2011 22:37 freddievercetti wrote:
I think the main problem with LoL in eSports is the asymmetrical warfare and RPG system inherent in MOBA games.
All the different heroes make up for alot of different comboes in game, while in Starcraft is fairly balanced around 3 races. I'm not totally sure but I think this contributes to imbalanced situations in the game sometimes, as well as some heroes not being great picks at all, or certain heroes being a good pick no matter the matchup.
The MOBA games start out with your hero at level which is fine, similar to how RTS games start out with your worker building and some workers. But the problem is that MOBA games concentrate effort on improving the hero, while Starcraft is about expanding and getting more stuff, or getting in a timing attack to kill of your opponent, which is easier to translate into lategame power for non-player audiences. Tastosis and Wolf/Moletrap and Day[9] help make it easier for the non-player audience to understand why players are doing what they are doing and why they are doing it.
SC2 is alot of fun to watch and my sister loves to watch large battles not that she knows whats happening, as well as the various harassments and drops and landmines and things in SC2. Its just easy to get into since she doesn't play the game. MOBA games she just likes to see the character screens what heroes I pick and such forth. Are you trying to argue that LoL is harder to understand as a spectator than SC2 and therefore it is not very attractive for viewers? Well sorry man, that's quite obviously not the case. 130,000 viewers. LoL is very easy to understand for a spectator. I had no trouble watching it without any previous experience in MOBAs. (DotA and HoN on the other hand... lol I still can't see shit when I watch those, and I got plenty of LoL experience under my belt by now) On June 18 2011 23:02 Novalisk wrote:
I think the only conclusion we can get from this is that Blizzard should take notes from Riot on how to promote their game. Fun fact: Riot has not been doing very well at promoting tournaments just until now. No its just that the gametype is too centric around heroes and building their items. Alot of the time its sort of boring watching players creep and go back and forth before initiating, trying to zone control each other. The items are located in heroes inventory, so they buff the hero up, as opposed to building a larger army in starcraft. Its much more exciting for a non-player to watch a large Starcraft battle or constant harrassment then it is to look at 10 heroes, located around different parts of the map. My sister hardly watches LoL when I play but does like watching the occasional Starcraft because it is just more exciting, especially when Tastosis casts on GomTV during the lull periods. She doesn't play computer games at all and this is what I feel is the problem for MOBA games for attracting non-player viewers. Sort of like how we watch hockey games even though we don't play hockey games or even understand some of the rules behind it. Its just exciting to watch. The only problem with your arguement is that she watches Tasteless cast therefore the whole argument becomes invalid
Yeah that is true now that I think about it. She likes hearing the nonsense they spew out when the game is during a lull, which is the first 2-3 minutes, before the game starts to take focus.
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On June 19 2011 01:34 BlueBird. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 01:29 Greem wrote:On June 19 2011 01:09 Earll wrote:Kind of annoys me that everyone is calling LoL Casual. What does that even mean? How does one qualify a game as 'casual'? Because they removed some of the more annoying\harder to control mechanics from Dota, such as denying, LoL is suddenly a casual game and not worthy of the hardened e-sports core? I Would actually goes as far as to say by my definition of casual, Starcraft (2) is a lot more geared towards casual, and more 'casual' friendly, than LoL. Not that that is a bad thing, it just is what it is. To learn a MOBA/Dota game like LoL and get past the level of complete "WTF I have no idea what just happened" you basically need to learn all the heroes, and all their 4 abilities + 1 passive, and there are like what 50+ heroes and a ton of items, so getting over the initial learning curve for LoL is a lot harder than Sc2 where you need to know the fewer and simpler units. Obviously Sc2 has probably more depth strategically, and has like a looooooooooooooooooooottttttttt more room in terms of mechanics, but that does not make LoL casual friendly. Moba games are always very casual unfriendly in my opinion because of the way the community and the games work, and any new player is flamed and wished death upon for every game they enter. That being said, LoL is still far from any form players performing perfectly, or any form of skill cap, and as other casual friendlygames ( take WoW Arena as an example) that tons of esports veterans flame, and throw away as 'jokes' because they are not as mechanically challenging as an FPS or a RTS, still will Never ever ever have any lone/single player reaching the 'skill cap' always playing perfectly and never making a mistake. Add that to the fact that this is not a single playing game, but the most important part of it is team play not the performance of a single player, and the "skillcap" is even more impossible to reach. Looking at the games casted today, all of these players are the top of the LoL community basically, many of which practice several hours a day (Like several.) and there are still tons of mistakes being made, and some teams simply dominate others because they are better, even though they are both good teams\players. So are you saying absolutely all of the LoL players are just worse overall gamers than Starcraft players, and if a half decent starcraft player decided to move to LoL he would just instantly crush face and become the top of all brackets and tournaments? If this is the case then why dont 'you' just start A LoL team and dominate the world, I mean dreamhack is just 1 event\tournament and it has a 100k(?) prizepool. On June 19 2011 01:08 Nqsty wrote:
Its very difficult to view high level play in LoL due to the design's limitations, no replays, VoDs etc; hence the second everyone can grab some insight on how high level matchs work, they jump on it, I myself have had the stream on all day.
Compare that to SC2 where no-one gives a sh*t about watching live because you can get all the replays and/or commentaries the next day.
Boom, there's your 150k viewers.
Just throwing out a guess here but i think probably like 70-80+% of the people watching the streams are watching them more for entertainment value than to get insight on how high level matchs works (e.g more educational value), no? I call the game casual when to learn it and be able to compete in high level you'll need around a week or even few days. I would qualify LoL as one of those games. For example in SC2 in 1 week you'd still be in bronze league, even after month of playing you won't pass diamond level, its takes time, patience and a lot of practice. I got nothing against LoL , or any other game, if you like it, go play it. You simply cannot compare the difficulty of SC2 to LoL, where you control a unit with 4 abilities i mean , do you really need to hear why ? "Sc2 has probably more depth strategically" Probably ? It definitively got more depth, its RTS for a reason. As i said if you like the game , go ahead play it.But comparing LoL and SC2 its like comparing chess and checkers. On the other hand i don't really care if numbers are real, i'd like to see DH total numbers from all the stream from all the games, because in the end that what matters for eSports to continue to grow. I agree with you that SC2 is much more competitive and has a higher skill cap, but to say ANY game with even a tiny competitive scene or pitiful competitive scene takes only a few days to be at a top level at is an ignorant statement, LoL and SC2 is a game played by humans, and humans error, the goal of both games is to make the least amount of errors, both games theoretical skill caps can not be reached, if I play a game all the time and practice with my team mates, and you play for a week, and I actually practice and discuss the game, and you just show up after a week of play... yeah, there is a reason korean players consistently do better than foreigners in the starcraft scene, Practice makes perfect.... The players playing right now as we post on this forum discussing this issue are playing for 50,000 dollars, to play a video game, with 150,000 people watching them play.. a video game. If it's so easy why are you not there winning that money and getting all that attention. It was a paid trip for those that qualified, not really any excuses you can make...
How is that an ignorant statement ? Note that i say high level, lets say Diamond in SC2, compare the time you need to reach Diamond in SC2 to LoL equivalent of that if that make more sense to you. I glad that you like the game you play, that's the reason you play it in the first place. But going as war as comparing SC2 to it, its as you well sad - ignorant.
Also for the name of the thread SC2 vs eSport is never the case, SC2 is with eSports.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ssZqy.jpg)
