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impressive, though needs statistical analysis to show ratio of logged on users to viewers or something to that extent to prove your point. depending on site layout/login counting it may be anyone with a site cookie updated in past x hours/days or vod viewers etc. In short, it is not direct evidence of viewer count and as such a certain level of scepticism is reasonable.
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SC2 Was new and fresh and more people were tuning in. LoL will fall off just the same and probably eventually have less views than SC2 has.
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On June 19 2011 07:31 waffleduck wrote:
SC2 Was new and fresh and more people were tuning in. LoL will fall off just the same and probably eventually have less views than SC2 has.
LoL has been around for longer and is free (well, micro transactions), while sc2 has the limit of having to buy the game.
Not really sure if I get your reasoning.
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What are you guys arguing about really? My game is cooler then yours? Get some air seriously.
LoL is not my cup of tea. However, these both numbers, at the same time nonetheless are amazing. E-sports getting so much bigger. Can't wait to see what the future holds 
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On June 19 2011 07:33 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 07:31 waffleduck wrote:
SC2 Was new and fresh and more people were tuning in. LoL will fall off just the same and probably eventually have less views than SC2 has. LoL has been around for longer and is free (well, micro transactions), while sc2 has the limit of having to buy the game. Not really sure if I get your reasoning.
This is like its first major tournament.
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On June 19 2011 07:31 xarthaz wrote:impressive, though needs statistical analysis to show ratio of logged on users to viewers or something to that extent to prove your point. depending on site layout/login counting it may be anyone with a site cookie updated in past x hours/days or vod viewers etc. In short, it is not direct evidence of viewer count and as such a certain level of scepticism is reasonable.
how about you take your own advice? since the beginning of this thread you've already accepted the LoL numbers as a foregone conclusion, talking about how casual > hardcore games, how LoL is the ultimate esport and how games like quake are dead, but all of a sudden you need intense scrutiny, statistical analysis and skepticism when starcraft in korea reveals a far larger viewership
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I think what we should all keep in mind is that every ESPORTS game whether its SC2 LoL SF BW or whatever all have a long way to go. I don't think any of them have had viewers coming anywhere close to 1 million yet. Arguing about which one is better or more successful is really pointless because at this point any of them could either fail or go big.
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Woot! Corporate loyalty. Isn't this what company rivalries are all about?
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On June 19 2011 07:59 waffleduck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 07:33 Comeh wrote:On June 19 2011 07:31 waffleduck wrote:
SC2 Was new and fresh and more people were tuning in. LoL will fall off just the same and probably eventually have less views than SC2 has. LoL has been around for longer and is free (well, micro transactions), while sc2 has the limit of having to buy the game. Not really sure if I get your reasoning. This is like its first major tournament.
There are tournaments almost every week. This is comparable to the GSL finals except maybe a bit bigger.
Doesn't really matter though, who cares. Another game got a ton of views and is getting more views at DreamHack than SC2. Doesn't mean that SC2 is dying or that LoL is better or anything, it's just really cool that another game is getting a lot of attention. Not only do a lot of people like to play LoL but a lot of people like to watch it. So expect even more tournaments and more prizes in the future for LoL. And expect continued success and popularity of SC2.
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I bet my dad can beat up your dad.
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On June 19 2011 07:31 xarthaz wrote:impressive, though needs statistical analysis to show ratio of logged on users to viewers or something to that extent to prove your point. depending on site layout/login counting it may be anyone with a site cookie updated in past x hours/days or vod viewers etc. In short, it is not direct evidence of viewer count and as such a certain level of scepticism is reasonable.
I have yet to see any statistical analysis to show the ratio of stream viewers that are actually watching the games to people that just left the stream on and are currently picking their nose.
In fact, I have not seen any statistical analysis, which leaves me sorely disappointed.
So I guess I'll just have to present the total manhours(and womenhours) spent watching streams as a hastily made pie graph:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xW7ZS.jpg)
This clearly leaves no doubt about which is the biggest ESPORT of all time.
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On June 19 2011 07:13 synaptics wrote:Everyone needs to chill, this whole topic is a pointless and stupid LoL vs SC2 debate that has no reason for existing
I have to agree. I'm not sure why people need to attack LoL. This thread was started with many in disbelief that the Riot stream had so many viewers. People can still enjoy both games. The only thing to remember and get excited about is that the success LoL is having is contributing to Esports. The growing of Esports is something this website cares a lot about.
Riot is taking a lot of the steps to continue having this game show up in tournaments. Spectator mode is on its way. The employees of Riot have such a love for esports, encouraging the viewers to trend #Esports all during the cast. They have also been having a successful league in NESL online events.
Sponsorship's are starting to come in at a nice rate with the success it has been having. FnaticMSI and SK have had teams for quite a while now. TSM one of the teams is sponsored by Tt Esports and Bigfoot Networks. Razer, paysafecard and others sponsored the event.
Opinions on it being an epsort should not be based on if you like the game or not. Its about the potential it has, and clearly LoL's potential continues to rise.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 19 2011 08:24 Irave wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 07:13 synaptics wrote:Please continue calling me a liar. LoL'ers need to Chill Everyone needs to chill, this whole topic is a pointless and stupid LoL vs SC2 debate that has no reason for existing I have to agree. I'm not sure why people need to attack LoL. This thread was started with many in disbelief that the Riot stream had so many viewers. People can still enjoy both games. The only thing to remember and get excited about is that the success LoL is having is contributing to Esports. The growing of Esports is something this website cares a lot about. Riot is taking a lot of the steps to continue having this game show up in tournaments. Spectator mode is on its way. The employees of Riot have such a love for esports, encouraging the viewers to trend #Esports all during the cast. They have also been having a successful league in NESL online events. Sponsorship's are starting to come in at a nice rate with the success it has been having. FnaticMSI and SK have had teams for quite a while now. TSM one of the teams is sponsored by Tt Esports and Bigfoot Networks. Razer, paysafecard and others sponsored the event. Opinions on it being an epsort should not be based on if you like the game or not. Its about the potential it has, and clearly LoL's potential continues to rise.
Nice post.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 19 2011 06:54 steamrice wrote:
LoL sitting at 70k viewers even after its over...
If I'm not mistaken they are running a re-run of today's matches for the people who missed it.
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On June 19 2011 02:21 Trumpstyle wrote:
I agree LoL has very low skill cap. In my third game in LoL felt I already was skill capped.
I'm master league player in SC2 so might be that.
Right, that was so ridiculous that I just had to reply something. I played SC2 for like 3 weeks and "was" allready at high level (diamond, which was the highest league at the time). Also I've never played any RTS online before that. I've played LoL for a month now and I'm nowhere near any high level. I guess that makes SC2 the game with lower skillcap? :D
Seriously now, a game being not mechanically demanding does not mean it has lower skill ceiling. To this date, no one has ever mastered chess either, and you need something like 0.1 APM to be good at it. In theory, one could be the best player in LoL and have like 30 APM as the game is much more about decision making and team play. Also having more players increases the difficulty instead of decreasing it like some people are thinking, that is the reason why vanilla WoW raiding was so damn hard, even though the encounters themselves were somewhat trivial. It's pretty hard to have 40 people performing perfectly no matter how easy the task actually is.
Personally I prefer watching SC2 as the playing feels somewhat stressful and I'm also not very fond of 1v1 games. I prefer my games as social entertainment. That is also the reason I like playing LoL, it doesn't have tedious mechanics that I'd have to practise for 10 years and I can also play it with my friends.
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is awesome32278 Posts
On June 19 2011 06:43 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:25 Eppa! wrote:On June 19 2011 06:11 Skwid1g wrote:On June 19 2011 05:49 overt wrote:On June 19 2011 05:42 Whole wrote:On June 19 2011 05:26 Aurra wrote:
SC2 players calling LoL a casual game seems a bit ironic.
Sure, LoL is a simple/"dumbed down" version of DOTA but so is SC2 compared to its own predecessor. I don't think the comparison is fair. Starcraft: BW was ridiculously hard. You had to make it a brutal full-time job just to be considered a pro...can you really say the same for DOTA? I think SC2 is very close in the perfect balance of hard and casual friendly...personally I wish it'd be a little harder but that won't change. Also, while LoL is getting massive views, only time will tell if it could be consistant. I think it is getting so much views because it is the first LoL tournament of this caliber, while SC2 has this shit year round. DotA2 on the other hand could compete if it delivers. LoL peaked at like 70K just for the North American qualifiers too. NESL matches with CLG can peak at 10K. People watching popular streamers like bigfatjiji, saintvicious, HotshotGG, or the Solomid stream can get 5-6K sometimes of them just playing games. I understand people not liking LoL but calling it "casual" and "not a real eSport" is dumb. I started playing and watching LoL because I just didn't get into SC2 the way I got into Brood War and I still watch Brood War matches but have no clue what's going on in professional SC2. It got boring for me for the same reason a lot of people in this thread don't like LoL. People just have different tastes, no point in bashing on one or the other because one is successful. Besides, if LoL gets super big it will only mean good things for SC2 and LoL has a lot of potential. Meh, I'm nearing 2k Elo on LoL and I play once a week at most, I just don't think it has much potential as an E-sport as the skill cap is relatively low, it has a lot of glitches that break it competitively, and Riot is clueless on balancing. Fun game though. And I believe when Idra was talking during his games he got like 25k viewers just laddering, which is more than I've ever seen from Hotshot or Regi's stream. Does anyone know how many viewers the GSL finals have gotten throughout the season when including the Koreans? I'd be interested to know. Whatever makes people happy though, that's the whole point of video games in the end. This doesn't sound like any 2k player I have ever heard of before. LoL is actually quite balanced for a MobA where there are generally a lot of FotMing I got to 1650 before I quit for BLC and you need to get great mechanics or great decision making unless you want your team to carry you while playing Janna/Soraka/Taric. Quite balanced? Fiddlesticks, GP, etc. are well balanced champions? The problem isn't with "FOTM/OP" champions, but rather the huge number of weak champions like those, Kog, Morde, Trynd, Panth, etc. that are considered jokes in competitive play.
Moot point. BW has joke units in competitive play (scouts, queens, infested terrans) or which are very very situational. Same with LoL, some champs are very very situational or suck and no one is considering BW a joke cause of that.
If you don't like that example we can pick CS and it's weapons. Half the weapons are a joke and no one ever said "Valve real balancing" or shit like that.
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I think people are pissed because LoL was never designed with E-Sports in mind, but yet still has more viewers on its stream than SC2. Then again, BW was never designed for E-Sports either, although the game was ridiculously balanced and mechanically demanding to play like a sport should be.
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is awesome32278 Posts
Ok, never mind, I read more of the thread, this is worse than a BW vs SC2 thread. This is going nowhere.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On June 19 2011 08:49 teamsolid wrote:
I think people are pissed because LoL was never designed with E-Sports in mind, but yet still has more viewers on its stream than SC2. Then again, BW was never designed for E-Sports either, although the game was ridiculously balanced and mechanically demanding to play like a sport should be.
It's nothing to be pissed off about. Riot does a really nice job of promoting their esports on the front page of their website and in the game launcher. If you had DHSC2 linked right at the top of Bnet you'd see similar numbers. Riot is much more agile with these things, probably due to being smaller and having fewer stake holders involved in those types of decisions/approvals.
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EPT
