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I'm surprised at all the hostility towards LoL here. While I do agree that HoN has more depth, going as far to say that LoL takes no skill or has no e-sports potential is just mindless bashing. In fact, I think LoL represents something that all future e-sports should emulate: accessibility.
LoL has a growing e-sports scene because it has a massive fanbase, and it got that fanbase through the fact that the game is free, has moderate system requirements, and an art style that is crystal clear with recognizable characters and visuals (especially compared to the more visually confusing HoN). SC1 got popular mostly through the same factors because it was so widespread in Korea due to its non-intensive graphics and easy to pick up gameplay.
In all honesty, I won't be surprised if LoL surpasses SC2 as well considering that SC2 is only going to get more expensive with two more $40 expansions on the way.
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I think this is a good thing if SC2 has competition on attaining it's dominance in E-sports. It doesn't deserve it by default just because the game has "StarCraft" in the name. Hopefully Blizzard will take this competition here as a motivator to make SC2 the best E-Sport it can be in the next 2 expansions, and not just a gimmicky RTS. It's up to Blizzard to retain their crown, not just us fans. SC2 is nowhere close to being broodwar as a spectator sport right now. I could see LoL stealing the throne if enough of it's fans stay behind it, or if Blizzard doesn't get their act together in these expansions. Either way we should be happy E-Sports are growing, even if it's not your E-Sport.
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On June 19 2011 06:11 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 05:49 overt wrote:On June 19 2011 05:42 Whole wrote:On June 19 2011 05:26 Aurra wrote:
SC2 players calling LoL a casual game seems a bit ironic.
Sure, LoL is a simple/"dumbed down" version of DOTA but so is SC2 compared to its own predecessor. I don't think the comparison is fair. Starcraft: BW was ridiculously hard. You had to make it a brutal full-time job just to be considered a pro...can you really say the same for DOTA? I think SC2 is very close in the perfect balance of hard and casual friendly...personally I wish it'd be a little harder but that won't change. Also, while LoL is getting massive views, only time will tell if it could be consistant. I think it is getting so much views because it is the first LoL tournament of this caliber, while SC2 has this shit year round. DotA2 on the other hand could compete if it delivers. LoL peaked at like 70K just for the North American qualifiers too. NESL matches with CLG can peak at 10K. People watching popular streamers like bigfatjiji, saintvicious, HotshotGG, or the Solomid stream can get 5-6K sometimes of them just playing games. I understand people not liking LoL but calling it "casual" and "not a real eSport" is dumb. I started playing and watching LoL because I just didn't get into SC2 the way I got into Brood War and I still watch Brood War matches but have no clue what's going on in professional SC2. It got boring for me for the same reason a lot of people in this thread don't like LoL. People just have different tastes, no point in bashing on one or the other because one is successful. Besides, if LoL gets super big it will only mean good things for SC2 and LoL has a lot of potential. Meh, I'm nearing 2k Elo on LoL and I play once a week at most, I just don't think it has much potential as an E-sport as the skill cap is relatively low, it has a lot of glitches that break it competitively, and Riot is clueless on balancing. Fun game though. And I believe when Idra was talking during his games he got like 25k viewers just laddering, which is more than I've ever seen from Hotshot or Regi's stream. Does anyone know how many viewers the GSL finals have gotten throughout the season when including the Koreans? I'd be interested to know. Whatever makes people happy though, that's the whole point of video games in the end.
This doesn't sound like any 2k player I have ever heard of before. LoL is actually quite balanced for a MobA where there are generally a lot of FotMing I got to 1650 before I quit for BLC and you need to get great mechanics or great decision making unless you want your team to carry you while playing Janna/Soraka/Taric.
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LoL is a much easier game, it's free, takes lower comp specs, is very cartoony so it attracts more people. Basically, it caters to casuals. Casuals make up the biggest portion of the market.
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Yeah, and LoL commercial @ http://dreamhack.se ... Riot , like new game promoution system - become sponsor in big events, put banners with "free , come get it" = profit and online. Childrens and carebears happy, Riot rich, Haters butthurting :3
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On June 19 2011 06:12 GizmoPT wrote:
if i remember well some time ago when there were less tournaments and streams i remember 150k+ streams for starcraft :X
So which one? And live report thread or osmething to back it`? The only number that is reported to be comparable to the 193k+ that LoL had today had been the Boxer GOM game which strangely doesnt have viewer count information anywhere. Im sorry but it needs more than urban legend to prove that something is the biggest esport event of all time. Today, LoL did it. SC2? Maybe, but remains to be proved.
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I don't get why people are arguing about LoL vs SC2. They are two different games. If both get popular then good for e-sports. It means more corporations taking sponsorship seriously of e-sports.
The reason why I don't like LoL is that you can't deny in it at all. I know it's a dead old debate but it's just preference in gameplay and taking away a mechanic just removes skill from a game.
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On June 19 2011 06:25 MethodSC wrote:
LoL is a much easier game, it's free, takes lower comp specs, is very cartoony so it attracts more people. Basically, it caters to casuals. Casuals make up the biggest portion of the market.
Hit the nail on the head. I believe both LoL and Sc2 are e-sports, but both have their advantages. LoL has a bigger chance to become mainstream though, because playerbase is the most important factor.
However playerbase isn't the only factor though. Or else farmville would be an e-sport. You need a proper competitive game.
IMO for esports to grow, both sc2 and LoL need to succeed together. LoL playerbase will only grow exponentially since it's free to play. Sc2 will have 2 more expansions that not many people will buy. So sc2 isn't going to get more player-turned-spectators. It's spectators are going to have to come from casual LoL players who decides to check out a sc2 stream.
Or, the alternative is to have a game that has both benefits of sc2 and farmville/LoL. A good game that is easily accessible and marketed heavily by it's producer.
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Everyone is forgetting that there is far more SC2 content than LoL content. Dreamhack is far from the biggest SC2 tournament in the world, and simultaneously we have stuff like GSL and NASL going on. People can't watch everything. But LoL, people who want to watch that don't have so many opportunities, and this is by far THE BIGGEST moba tournament in history. You can't compare viewer counts between SC2 and LoL to argue legitimacy.
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The only thing slightly more amusing than the random theories of viewer-inflation and attacks on LoL in this thread is xarthaz trying oh so hard to defend it. 
It's rather interesting that so many fairly casual players are interested in watching the game at the competitive level though.
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United States13896 Posts
What a horrible Edick measuring contest this thread is.
Good for LoL. Its a fun game.
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On June 19 2011 06:39 p4NDemik wrote:
What a horrible Edick measuring contest this thread is.
Good for LoL. Its a fun game.
if only LoL was a fun game.
but yeah, this thread was doomed to become a bashing thread from the beginning. what do you expect? the title could as well have been LoL vs SC2. the purpose is identical.
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On June 19 2011 06:30 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:12 GizmoPT wrote:
if i remember well some time ago when there were less tournaments and streams i remember 150k+ streams for starcraft :X So which one? And live report thread or osmething to back it`? The only number that is reported to be comparable to the 193k+ that LoL had today had been the Boxer GOM game which strangely doesnt have viewer count information anywhere. Im sorry but it needs more than urban legend to prove that something is the biggest esport event of all time. Today, LoL did it. SC2? Maybe, but remains to be proved.
GOM doesn't release the viewership numbers for some reason.
Also I'm pretty sure there have been plenty of times SC2 finals events have hit extremely high viewership numbers.
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On June 19 2011 06:25 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:11 Skwid1g wrote:On June 19 2011 05:49 overt wrote:On June 19 2011 05:42 Whole wrote:On June 19 2011 05:26 Aurra wrote:
SC2 players calling LoL a casual game seems a bit ironic.
Sure, LoL is a simple/"dumbed down" version of DOTA but so is SC2 compared to its own predecessor. I don't think the comparison is fair. Starcraft: BW was ridiculously hard. You had to make it a brutal full-time job just to be considered a pro...can you really say the same for DOTA? I think SC2 is very close in the perfect balance of hard and casual friendly...personally I wish it'd be a little harder but that won't change. Also, while LoL is getting massive views, only time will tell if it could be consistant. I think it is getting so much views because it is the first LoL tournament of this caliber, while SC2 has this shit year round. DotA2 on the other hand could compete if it delivers. LoL peaked at like 70K just for the North American qualifiers too. NESL matches with CLG can peak at 10K. People watching popular streamers like bigfatjiji, saintvicious, HotshotGG, or the Solomid stream can get 5-6K sometimes of them just playing games. I understand people not liking LoL but calling it "casual" and "not a real eSport" is dumb. I started playing and watching LoL because I just didn't get into SC2 the way I got into Brood War and I still watch Brood War matches but have no clue what's going on in professional SC2. It got boring for me for the same reason a lot of people in this thread don't like LoL. People just have different tastes, no point in bashing on one or the other because one is successful. Besides, if LoL gets super big it will only mean good things for SC2 and LoL has a lot of potential. Meh, I'm nearing 2k Elo on LoL and I play once a week at most, I just don't think it has much potential as an E-sport as the skill cap is relatively low, it has a lot of glitches that break it competitively, and Riot is clueless on balancing. Fun game though. And I believe when Idra was talking during his games he got like 25k viewers just laddering, which is more than I've ever seen from Hotshot or Regi's stream. Does anyone know how many viewers the GSL finals have gotten throughout the season when including the Koreans? I'd be interested to know. Whatever makes people happy though, that's the whole point of video games in the end. This doesn't sound like any 2k player I have ever heard of before. LoL is actually quite balanced for a MobA where there are generally a lot of FotMing I got to 1650 before I quit for BLC and you need to get great mechanics or great decision making unless you want your team to carry you while playing Janna/Soraka/Taric.
Quite balanced? Fiddlesticks, GP, etc. are well balanced champions? The problem isn't with "FOTM/OP" champions, but rather the huge number of weak champions like those, Kog, Morde, Trynd, Panth, etc. that are considered jokes in competitive play.
And no, you don't need great mechanics or decision making to hit 1600-1800ish, I can say that I'm not good at that game and I'll most likely hit 2k within the next few weeks. Part of this is the attitude that most players have, but a lot of it has to do with the game itself. Riot could easily change this in the future, but their design philosophy makes me think it won't happen.
Is it an E-sport? Sure, people play it competitively. Is it one of the harder E-sports? Not at all imo.
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On June 19 2011 06:30 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:12 GizmoPT wrote:
if i remember well some time ago when there were less tournaments and streams i remember 150k+ streams for starcraft :X So which one? And live report thread or osmething to back it`? The only number that is reported to be comparable to the 193k+ that LoL had today had been the Boxer GOM game which strangely doesnt have viewer count information anywhere. Im sorry but it needs more than urban legend to prove that something is the biggest esport event of all time. Today, LoL did it. SC2? Maybe, but remains to be proved.
Yeah its easy to say LoL is the biggest thing since sliced bread when the biggest E-SPORT leagues in the world MLG and GSL don't release viewer counts to their streams.
TL search box is pretty awful when trying to find specific thread from the past. It is known.
Also where is your proof that LoL hit 193k? Since you seem to be so interested in proof for every little statement. Been at 77k all day today, not taking in account pando media booster.
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The eagles stream has very high numbers 24/7, so that's officially the BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME. Sorry LoL and SC2, you lose.
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On June 19 2011 06:47 lololol wrote:
The eagles stream has very high numbers 24/7, so that's officially the BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME. Sorry LoL and SC2, you lose.
/thread
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On June 19 2011 06:43 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:25 Eppa! wrote:On June 19 2011 06:11 Skwid1g wrote:On June 19 2011 05:49 overt wrote:On June 19 2011 05:42 Whole wrote:On June 19 2011 05:26 Aurra wrote:
SC2 players calling LoL a casual game seems a bit ironic.
Sure, LoL is a simple/"dumbed down" version of DOTA but so is SC2 compared to its own predecessor. I don't think the comparison is fair. Starcraft: BW was ridiculously hard. You had to make it a brutal full-time job just to be considered a pro...can you really say the same for DOTA? I think SC2 is very close in the perfect balance of hard and casual friendly...personally I wish it'd be a little harder but that won't change. Also, while LoL is getting massive views, only time will tell if it could be consistant. I think it is getting so much views because it is the first LoL tournament of this caliber, while SC2 has this shit year round. DotA2 on the other hand could compete if it delivers. LoL peaked at like 70K just for the North American qualifiers too. NESL matches with CLG can peak at 10K. People watching popular streamers like bigfatjiji, saintvicious, HotshotGG, or the Solomid stream can get 5-6K sometimes of them just playing games. I understand people not liking LoL but calling it "casual" and "not a real eSport" is dumb. I started playing and watching LoL because I just didn't get into SC2 the way I got into Brood War and I still watch Brood War matches but have no clue what's going on in professional SC2. It got boring for me for the same reason a lot of people in this thread don't like LoL. People just have different tastes, no point in bashing on one or the other because one is successful. Besides, if LoL gets super big it will only mean good things for SC2 and LoL has a lot of potential. Meh, I'm nearing 2k Elo on LoL and I play once a week at most, I just don't think it has much potential as an E-sport as the skill cap is relatively low, it has a lot of glitches that break it competitively, and Riot is clueless on balancing. Fun game though. And I believe when Idra was talking during his games he got like 25k viewers just laddering, which is more than I've ever seen from Hotshot or Regi's stream. Does anyone know how many viewers the GSL finals have gotten throughout the season when including the Koreans? I'd be interested to know. Whatever makes people happy though, that's the whole point of video games in the end. This doesn't sound like any 2k player I have ever heard of before. LoL is actually quite balanced for a MobA where there are generally a lot of FotMing I got to 1650 before I quit for BLC and you need to get great mechanics or great decision making unless you want your team to carry you while playing Janna/Soraka/Taric. Quite balanced? Fiddlesticks, GP, etc. are well balanced champions? The problem isn't with "FOTM/OP" champions, but rather the huge number of weak champions like those, Kog, Morde, Trynd, Panth, etc. that are considered jokes in competitive play. And no, you don't need great mechanics or decision making to hit 1600-1800ish, I can say that I'm not good at that game and I'll most likely hit 2k within the next few weeks.
Compared to DotA? Compared to BLC? HoN? This isn't an RTS not every hero is supposed to be viable (one of the reasons why LoL is actually so big) percentage wise the games are all fairly similar in viable picks.
There is no way that you can hit 2k in soloq playing 1 game a week unless you are incredibly lucky and only get carried.
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some people are way too insecure about the game they like to watch
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On June 19 2011 06:30 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:12 GizmoPT wrote:
if i remember well some time ago when there were less tournaments and streams i remember 150k+ streams for starcraft :X So which one? And live report thread or osmething to back it`? The only number that is reported to be comparable to the 193k+ that LoL had today had been the Boxer GOM game which strangely doesnt have viewer count information anywhere. Im sorry but it needs more than urban legend to prove that something is the biggest esport event of all time. Today, LoL did it. SC2? Maybe, but remains to be proved.
why are you obsessed with a number? biggest esport event of all time is about venue, big name players, live spectators, stadium, audience enthusiasm, hype, rivalries, and prize money more so than the amount of online viewers imo. Stream numbers are easily inflated too, and shouldn't be readily used for assessment. Boxer vs NaDa had no viewer count but everyone knows it was huge. They didn't need to have a number plastered over headlines to show that.
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EPT
