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On June 03 2011 06:24 Bair wrote:Seduction is a tool. How you use it and what you use it for is up to the individual.
This is a point many outsiders seem to miss.
It's true that some people learn seduction for the sake of becoming the stereotypical playboy who tries to lay as many beautiful women as they can. But many study seduction in order to become the kind of man (or woman, as there's a small but growing number of playettes) who will be good enough to end up with the right girl (or guy) when they come along, rather than potentially missing that opportunity. Others just learn a little about social psychology so that they can be more popular.
Heck, there's even guys who study seduction so that they can game their own girlfriends/wives (protip: seducing your signficant other over and over again means the fire will always be going).
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I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor.
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On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor.
Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true.
I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics.
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On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics.
What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines".
Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes".
Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow.
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South Africa4316 Posts
Just to point out once again that I don't have anything against PUA. I don't doubt that it could help people be more successful by improving their confidence and forcing them to chat to women. As an outsider, I'm just wondering how much truth there is to it. It feels a bit like homeopathy to me in that it seems almost believable and scientific, but ultimately there's no evidence that its core principles are true.
On June 03 2011 05:46 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 04:05 Daigomi wrote:
Just a question to people who have read books on PUA, is there any scientific evidence to support it? Specifically, are there scientific studies published in respectable journals supporting it? From what I've read (mostly on TL), PUA seems to be based on evolutionary psychology which, at its best, is borderline scientific (most claims aren't falsifiable). If this is the case, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the books are ineffective. Giving people confidence in their ability to attract the opposite sex and telling them its ok to approach lots of women can only increase their chances to get laid. I'm just wondering if the actual methods they employ help.
Short answer is no. The seduction community includes a minimal number of academics, and to my knowledge, there hasn't been a publication that has explicitly went out and tested the information provided by PUAs. Rather, the appeal of PUA gurus is that they more or less have a monopoly on the (good) dating advice market; mainstream dating advice is often pretty useless if not downright counter-productive. However, I would point out that the seduction community tactics generally draw support from existing scientific research in psychology, sociology, and sexuality/gender studies. For example, the study found here provides scientific evidence that in many cases, merely having the courage to ask an attractive stranger girl out will succeed about half the time for typical college guys (and secondarily, opening with a proposition for sex fails almost all the time). Although the methodology is slightly questionable (in that I suspect that some of the 'yes's' weren't going to be followed up), the general idea seems accurate and matches up with real people's experiences.
Thanks for the repy! My main problem with PUA techniques is that there's a big difference between being based on psychological principles and being scientific. I do research on social psychology, and in my experience, for every social psychological "principle" out there, there are at least ten caveats or requirements. The bias I am currently studying has had more than a hundred research articles investigating and confirming its effect, and still there is a legitimate concern that it will not be observed in my population. More damning still is that social psychology (and clinical psychology) are much better researched than most fields of psychology. Evolutionary psychology, on the other hand, is more philosophical and less experimental than most fields of psychology which makes the application of its principles even more questionable. As such, when psychological principles are implemented three degrees of separation away from their original, complex form, I can't help but wander if they really are more effective than a theory ignorant of psychological principles.
This leads to a question I have. You mention that PUA is more useful than mainstream dating advice. Does this mean you feel like the PUA techniques are useful in and of themselves (meaning you exclude the placebo confidence they give)? That is to say, if two people with exactly the same levels of confidence/looks/etc. approached the same number of women, but the one flirts in the old-fashioned way and the other using PUA skills, do you think the one using PUA skills would do better. If yes, why do you believe so?
On June 03 2011 08:28 Chainfire99 wrote:
Another thing to add as well is that alpha males either instinctively or knowingly understand concepts such as building sexual tension, being a man of action (behavioral), and escalating when it comes to "courting" or "seducing" a woman. The average guy does not understand or instinctively carry out these concepts smoothly so it's harder for them attract women easily. The most successful guys when it comes to attracting women also are great at reading, displaying, and interpreting body language and knowing what to do from there.
Just out of interest, how do you know that women actually want or are attracted to the things you mention?
On June 03 2011 06:15 Chainfire99 wrote:
It IS all psychology...understanding females and what is and isn't attractive to them generally speaking.
You could call it psychology because it has to do with understanding people, but it seems to me like people want to call it psychological to give it the weight of science. Calling it psychology means it is more than just some schmuck's theory. Unfortunately, all psychology isn't good psychology. If there is no evidence supporting the hypothesis then it remains just a theory. Things that are believable and that can be rationalized well (like PUA) make for good theories, but until people actually go out and test these theories in a controlled environment, they are no more than some guy's idea of how people work.
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On June 03 2011 10:08 Redunzl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics. What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines". Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes". Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow.
So what you're saying is you've become the amazing manipulator, capable to convince a woman that she likes you, instead of become the amazing man that women like because of who you are?
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On June 03 2011 10:14 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 10:08 Redunzl wrote:On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics. What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines". Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes". Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow. So what you're saying is you've become the amazing manipulator, capable to convince a woman that she likes you, instead of become the amazing man that women like because of who you are?
Sometimes the women you like doesn't like who you are. In which case if you want to work towards "manipulating" her so she likes you as long as you put work and effort in to it I don't see the problem.
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On June 03 2011 10:21 Garth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 10:14 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:08 Redunzl wrote:On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics. What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines". Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes". Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow. So what you're saying is you've become the amazing manipulator, capable to convince a woman that she likes you, instead of become the amazing man that women like because of who you are? Sometimes the women you like doesn't like who you are. In which case if you want to work towards "manipulating" her so she likes you as long as you put work and effort in to it I don't see the problem.
If the girl doesn't like you for who you are, how are you going to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't like you? If you're just looking for sex then it doesn't matter. But that's not what this "community" and knowledge is supposed to be about.
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On June 03 2011 10:23 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 10:21 Garth wrote:On June 03 2011 10:14 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:08 Redunzl wrote:On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics. What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines". Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes". Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow. So what you're saying is you've become the amazing manipulator, capable to convince a woman that she likes you, instead of become the amazing man that women like because of who you are? Sometimes the women you like doesn't like who you are. In which case if you want to work towards "manipulating" her so she likes you as long as you put work and effort in to it I don't see the problem. If the girl doesn't like you for who you are, how are you going to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't like you? If you're just looking for sex then it doesn't matter. But that's not what this "community" and knowledge is supposed to be about.
PUA doesn't change who you are haha. It just tells you to say different things I suppose that would be looked on as more value to a women. It's not like it sucks your personality out and you're masking your true self. It tells you not to do stuff like bash yourself in front of women and to be confident IMO, confidence is the main thing it teaches
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this thread certainly has a lot going on in it... I don't quite know what i want to say, specifically, except that it's interesting to see how this sprouted a debate on whether or not free will exists, selected PUA texts giving advice on making women "follow" and so on.
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On June 03 2011 10:26 Garth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 10:23 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:21 Garth wrote:On June 03 2011 10:14 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:08 Redunzl wrote:On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics. What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines". Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes". Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow. So what you're saying is you've become the amazing manipulator, capable to convince a woman that she likes you, instead of become the amazing man that women like because of who you are? Sometimes the women you like doesn't like who you are. In which case if you want to work towards "manipulating" her so she likes you as long as you put work and effort in to it I don't see the problem. If the girl doesn't like you for who you are, how are you going to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't like you? If you're just looking for sex then it doesn't matter. But that's not what this "community" and knowledge is supposed to be about. PUA doesn't change who you are haha. It just tells you to say different things I suppose that would be looked on as more value to a women. It's not like it sucks your personality out and you're masking your true self. It tells you not to do stuff like bash yourself in front of women and to be confident IMO, confidence is the main thing it teaches
Yeah that's what Mystery and Neil Strauss preach. Real Social Dynamics teach you something completely different. Using lines and techniques is masking yourself. You're putting on a super hero "PICKUPMAN" costume whenever you go out, using lines and techniques that you borrowed from someone else in order to get women to like you as opposed to using real confidence, just being yourself, and being attractive to women as something you are not something you do.
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On June 03 2011 10:29 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 10:26 Garth wrote:On June 03 2011 10:23 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:21 Garth wrote:On June 03 2011 10:14 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:08 Redunzl wrote:On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics. What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines". Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes". Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow. So what you're saying is you've become the amazing manipulator, capable to convince a woman that she likes you, instead of become the amazing man that women like because of who you are? Sometimes the women you like doesn't like who you are. In which case if you want to work towards "manipulating" her so she likes you as long as you put work and effort in to it I don't see the problem. If the girl doesn't like you for who you are, how are you going to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't like you? If you're just looking for sex then it doesn't matter. But that's not what this "community" and knowledge is supposed to be about. PUA doesn't change who you are haha. It just tells you to say different things I suppose that would be looked on as more value to a women. It's not like it sucks your personality out and you're masking your true self. It tells you not to do stuff like bash yourself in front of women and to be confident IMO, confidence is the main thing it teaches Yeah that's what Mystery and Neil Strauss preach. Real Social Dynamics teach you something completely different. Using lines and techniques is masking yourself. You're putting on a super hero "PICKUPMAN" costume whenever you go out, using lines and techniques that you borrowed from someone else in order to get women to like you as opposed to using real confidence, just being yourself, and being attractive to women as something you are not something you do.
I confused, are you for PUA, and against Real social Dynamics?
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Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 08:28 Chainfire99 wrote:
Another thing to add as well is that alpha males either instinctively or knowingly understand concepts such as building sexual tension, being a man of action (behavioral), and escalating when it comes to "courting" or "seducing" a woman. The average guy does not understand or instinctively carry out these concepts smoothly so it's harder for them attract women easily. The most successful guys when it comes to attracting women also are great at reading, displaying, and interpreting body language and knowing what to do from there. Just out of interest, how do you know that women actually want or are attracted to the things you mention? Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 06:15 Chainfire99 wrote:
It IS all psychology...understanding females and what is and isn't attractive to them generally speaking.
You could call it psychology because it has to do with understanding people, but it seems to me like people want to call it psychological to give it the weight of science. Calling it psychology means it is more than just some schmuck's theory. Unfortunately, all psychology isn't good psychology. If there is no evidence supporting the hypothesis then it remains just a theory. Things that are believable and that can be rationalized well (like PUA) make for good theories, but until people actually go out and test these theories in a controlled environment, they are no more than some guy's idea of how people work.
How I know women are attracted to these traits is from personal experience and from intelligent observation of others. When you take away factors such as physical gifts ( being very attractive physically speaking), wealth, and fame what else do a significant amount of very successful men ( in terms of the ability to attract high value women) have in common? They are confident, they lead and dominate ( not in a negative way but positive masculine behaviors), they don't hesitate and go after what they want (men of action), and they have a solid level of self-esteem and self-worth. Most importantly, most of these men understand women either subconsciously/instinctively or on a conscious level (to varying degrees of course). They also understand body language more so than the average male. Call it psychology...call it sociology...call it math...I don't care. Generally speaking this is what I 100% without a doubt believe makes a man successful with women apart from wealth, looks (beyond just taking care of yourself), and fame. It's not rocket science..this stuff...it's just that the average guy is somehow clueless/ignorant of these things...and that may be due societal deprogramming... there particular experiences growing up...and/or It may have to do with personality and genetics as well.
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On June 03 2011 10:31 Garth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 10:29 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:26 Garth wrote:On June 03 2011 10:23 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:21 Garth wrote:On June 03 2011 10:14 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 10:08 Redunzl wrote:On June 03 2011 09:46 SolHeiM wrote:On June 03 2011 09:29 Redunzl wrote:
I've bedded hundreds of women without ever knowing about the "PUA community". The requisite skill is called empathy and it's inborn. Teaching this skill is like trying to teach someone the sense of humor. Actually it isn't. There are people just don't understand what to do and just need a push in the right direction. There are people who are fed these incessant bullshit by watching television that they genuinely believe that being nice to women (buying drinks, giving undeserved compliments) will make the women like them, which isn't true. I don't agree with using "techniques" in order to get girls, because I think it's ridiculous. If you want to learn some real knowledge check out Real Social Dynamics, where they dismiss using lines and openers and tactics. What isn't what? I have never picked up women at bars or with the use of alcohol. I also have never used flattery or "pick-up lines". Empathy is the ability to live vicariously or to "put yourself in another's shoes". Mating is something humans are naturally inclined towards. I simply have learned how to compel a woman's will to my own. Once this is accomplished then trust, desire, and willingness usually follow. So what you're saying is you've become the amazing manipulator, capable to convince a woman that she likes you, instead of become the amazing man that women like because of who you are? Sometimes the women you like doesn't like who you are. In which case if you want to work towards "manipulating" her so she likes you as long as you put work and effort in to it I don't see the problem. If the girl doesn't like you for who you are, how are you going to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't like you? If you're just looking for sex then it doesn't matter. But that's not what this "community" and knowledge is supposed to be about. PUA doesn't change who you are haha. It just tells you to say different things I suppose that would be looked on as more value to a women. It's not like it sucks your personality out and you're masking your true self. It tells you not to do stuff like bash yourself in front of women and to be confident IMO, confidence is the main thing it teaches Yeah that's what Mystery and Neil Strauss preach. Real Social Dynamics teach you something completely different. Using lines and techniques is masking yourself. You're putting on a super hero "PICKUPMAN" costume whenever you go out, using lines and techniques that you borrowed from someone else in order to get women to like you as opposed to using real confidence, just being yourself, and being attractive to women as something you are not something you do. I confused, are you for PUA, and against Real social Dynamics?
Exactly the opposite. PUA teaches you to put on the pickupman superhero costume. Being attractive to women is something you do.
Real Social Dynamics teaches you how to be attractive to women because changing small parts of who you are and making you attractive to women all the time, as opposed to having to flick a switch to be attractive.
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On June 03 2011 10:11 Daigomi wrote:
Just to point out once again that I don't have anything against PUA. I don't doubt that it could help people be more successful by improving their confidence and forcing them to chat to women. As an outsider, I'm just wondering how much truth there is to it. It feels a bit like homeopathy to me in that it seems almost believable and scientific, but ultimately there's no evidence that its core principles are true.
I may be wrong, but to me it sounds like you're interested but skeptical in the community. The best advice I can give is to try it out to see for yourself. It helps some people, it doesn't work for others. My experience is that whether or not it was successful, very few people 'regret' having joined the community because almost everyone gets something out of it. For example, I have a friend who got into pickup and still didn't get laid. But if you ask him whether or not he wishes he'd never read DeAngelo's Double Your Dating, his answer is definitely no, because if he hadn't read it he'd still be a walkover today. So basically he used to be a walkover who didn't get laid. Nowadays he's just a guy who doesn't get taken advantage of but doesn't get laid.
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On June 03 2011 01:03 Ganjamaster wrote:
With regards to my own experiences, I am not frustrated in the slightest. I have found success because I am in a certain situation in which it would be very hard not to get girls which is really beyond my control, but that is offtopic with regards to PUA´s.
On June 03 2011 02:40 Ganjamaster wrote:
It is my personal belief that prostitution solves many of the problems PUA´s want to tackle.
I see, no wonder you're such a stud macho man.
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OP updated with the following, to quell ideas that the community is about manipulation. Please remember, the original intent of this thread was for people to discuss their experiences in the PUA community. Some have provided negative feedback - if so, were there any particular events that made you come to such a conclusion, because otherwise just posting: "The community is a load of trash," is hardly informative. Pickup is about correcting mistakes in my opinion, what may seem like common sense to a 'natural' player with women is not so obvious for many guys, and for me personally I was at a point in 2006 of wanting to end my life because the girl I was engaged to broke it off to be with another guy. This was something I was unable to comprehend, and it wasn't until I started reading The Game and then eventually leading up to where I am today being involved with a community that made me realise that a lot of the issues that caused it wasn't in fact because the other guy was unscrupulous, but because I wasn't a strong enough person:
MISTAKE #1: Being
Too Much Of A “Nice Guy”
Have you ever noticed that the really attractive women never seem to be attracted "nice" guys?
Of course you have.
Just like me, I'm sure you've had attractive female friends that always seemed to date "jerks"... but for some reason they were never romantically interested in YOU.
What's going on here?
It's actually very simple...
Women don't base their choices of men on how "nice" a guy is. They choose the men they do because they feel a powerful GUT LEVEL ATTRACTION for them.
And guess what?
Being nice doesn't make a woman FEEL that powerful ATTRACTION.
And being NICE doesn't make a woman CHOOSE you.
I realize that this doesn't make a lot of logical sense, and it's hard to ACCEPT... but GET OVER IT.
Until you accept this FACT and begin to act on it, you'll NEVER have the success with women that you want.
MISTAKE #2: Trying To
“Convince Her To Like You"
What do most guys do when they meet a woman that they REALLY like... but she's just notinterested?
Right! They try to "convince" the woman to feel differently.
Well, I have news for you... YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE HOW A WOMAN "FEELS" WHEN IT COMES TO ATTRACTION!
Never, ever, EVER.
You cannot CONVINCE a woman to feel differently about you with "logic and reasoning".
Think about it.
If a woman doesn't "feel it" for you, how in the world do you expect to change that FEELING by being "reasonable" with her?
But we all do it.
When a woman just isn't interested, we beg, plead, chase, and do our best to change her mind.
Bad idea. One that will never work.
MISTAKE #3: Looking To Her
For Approval Or Permission
In our desire to please women (which we mistakenly think will make them like us), us guys are always doing things to get a woman's "approval" or "permission".
Another HORRIBLE idea.
Women are NEVER attracted to the types of men who kiss up to them... EVER.
Don't get me wrong here.
You don't have to treat women BADLY for them to like you.
But if you think that treating a woman well means "always getting her approval and permission for things", think again.
You will never succeed by looking for approval. Women actually get ANNOYED at men who seek their approval.
Doubt me? Just ask any attractive woman if Wussy guys who chase her around and want her approval annoy her...
MISTAKE #4: Trying To “Buy” Her Affection With Food And Gifts
How many times have you taken a woman out to a nice dinner, bought her gifts and flowers, and had her REJECT you for someone who didn't treat her even HALF as well as you did?
If you're like me, then you've had it happen a LOT.
Well guess what?
It's only NATURAL when this happens...
That's right, I said NATURAL.
When you do these things, you send a clear message:
"I don't think you'll like me for who I am, so I'm going to try to buy your attention and affection".
Your good intentions usually come across to women as over-compensation for insecurity, and weak attempts at manipulation. That's right, I said that women see this as MANIPULATION.
MISTAKE #5: Sharing
“How You Feel” Too Early In
The Relationship With Her
Another huge and unfortunate mistake that most men make with women is sharing how they "feel" too early on.
Attractive women are rare.
And they get a LOT of attention from men.
Most men don't realize this, but attractive women are being approached in one way or another ALL THE
An attractive woman is often approached several times a DAY by men who are interested. This translate into dozens of times per week, and often HUNDREDS of times per month.
And guess what?
Attractive women have usually dated a LOT of men.
That's right. They have EXPERIENCE.
They know what to expect.
And one thing that turns an attractive women off and sends her running away faster than just about anything is a guy who starts saying "You know, I really, REALLY like you" after one or two dates.
This signals to the woman that you're just like all the other guys who fall for her too fast... and can't control themselves.
Don't do it. Lean back. Relax.
There's a much better way...
MISTAKE #6: Not “Getting” How Attraction Works For Women
Women are VERY different from men when it comes to ATTRACTION.
You need to accept this fact, and deal with it.
When a man sees a beautiful, young, sexy woman, he INSTANTLY feels a sexual attraction.
But does the same apply for women?
Do women feel sexual attraction to men based mostly on looks? Or is something else going on?
Well, after studying this topic for over five full years now, I can tell you that women usually have their "attraction mechanisms" triggered by things OTHER than looks.
Have you ever noticed that you see a lot more average and unattractive men with beautiful women than the other way around?
Think about it.
Women are more attracted to certain qualities in men... and they're attracted to the way a man makes them FEEL than they are to looks alone.
If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.
But it's not an accident. You have to LEARN how to do this.
And ANY guy can learn how...
MISTAKE #7: Thinking That It
Takes Money And Looks
One of the most common mistakes that guys make is giving up before they've even gotten started... because they think that attractive women are only interested in men who have looks and money... or guys who are a certain height... or guys who are a certain age.
And sure, there are some women who are only interested in these things.
But MOST women are far more interested in a man's personality than his wallet or his looks.
There are personality traits that attract women like a magnet...
And if you learn what they are and how to use them, YOU can be one of these guys.
YOU DO NOT have to "settle" for a woman just because you aren't rich, tall, or handsome.
Let me say this again: If you know how to use your body language and communication correctly, you can make women feel the same kind of powerful sexual attraction to you that YOU feel when you see a hot, sexy young woman.
MISTAKE #8: Giving Away
All Of Your Power To Women
Earlier I mentioned that it's a mistake to look to a woman for approval or permission.
Well, another similar tactic that a lot of guys use is GIVING AWAY THEIR POWER to women.
Said differently, guys try to get women to like them by doing whatever the woman wants.
Another bad idea...
Women are NEVER attracted to men that they can walk all over... Women aren't attracted to Wussies!
MISTAKE #9: Not Knowing
EXACTLY What To Do In Each
Type Of Situation With Women
Now I'm going to blow your mind...
A woman ALWAYS knows what you're thinking.
Women are approximately TEN TIMES better than men at reading body language. That's ten TIMES.
I know, it might be hard to believe. But for example, if you're out on a date with a woman, and you want to kiss her, she knows it.
And if you don't know exactly what to do and exactly HOW to kiss her, and you just sit there looking at her and getting nervous, she won't help!
And this goes for ALL aspects of women and dating...
Approaching a woman, getting her number, asking her out, kissing her, getting physical... everything.
If you don't know what to do in each situation, you will probably screw it up... and LOSE EVERYTHING.
And you KNOW it.
It is VITALLY important that you know EXACTLY how to go from one step to the next with a woman... from the first meeting, all the way to the bedroom.
MISTAKE #10: Not Getting HELP
This is the biggest mistake of all.
This is the mistake that keeps most men from EVER having the kind of success with women that they truly want.
I know, guys don't like to make themselves look weak or helpless. We don't like to ask for help.
Hey, I've been there myself.
Let me tell you a little about me and how I figured out how to be successful with women...
About five years ago I became fed up with the fact that I didn't know how to approach, meet, and get dates with women that I was attracted to.
It frustrated the hell out of me.
One night I was out with a friend, and I saw a woman I wanted to ask out, but I just couldn't get up the nerve to do it. I can still remember that night... right on the spot I made the decision to do whatever it took to learn how to be successful with women and dating.
Well, after a lot of hard work and trying all kinds of crazy things, I finally figured it all out.
I can now approach just about any woman and get her number almost instantly. I've dated models, I've dated actresses, and I've dated nice, normal, regular girls as well.
It has been a very rewarding experience. I no longer feel that sick, insecure feeling... like I don't know how to meet women... and I might wind up alone.
I know that anytime, anywhere, I can go out and meet attractive women.
- David DeAngelo.
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For me what it comes down to is this - regardless of whether or not pick-up is 'ethical' or 'manipulative' - you always have a choice as to whether or not you want to apply the skills. If I don't want to 'neg' a girl, or make her fall for me only to have sex with 10 other women - at least the option of doing so is there if I wish to take it. A lot of people who criticise the PUA community tend to say - I'd never want to manipulate women like that... Or use dodgy tactics to get her. But then again they're often people who are going through long dry spells. It's like someone complaining about rich people having too much money and not giving it to the poor - often the biggest complainers are poor people themselves. If you feel like you should help the poor, feel free to donate. But at least the option of being a selfish rich person is there if you wish to live a lavish lifestyle. At least the option of having the necessary skills to bed any women you meet is there if you need it and you choose not to apply it, rather than not having the skills at all.
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I've been thinking about getting into this community and trying out. The game was a pretty good book. I honestly don't think its about just getting laid. But I'm sure a lot of guys use it just for that. Feels like most people who are saying negative things either have either never tried it or just seen the worst of it.
Also I really liked prides post couple pages back  And anyone saying this is just for people to get money. I'm sure you can say that about any occupation out there. Anyways that's my thoughts for now with my brief look in. I'll see how I feel couple months down the road.
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And one thing I think a lot of critics tend to fail to realise is this - women at the firm young ages of their 20s are generally not actually looking to settle down. So whilst some white knighters may say: "Pickup is unethical. Why would you ever want to hurt your girlfriend by getting into a threesome," is failing to recognise that many girls around those prime years are just looking to have fun, more than a long-term relationship.
Pickup will help you get threesomes if that's what you want. But if you're looking to develop meaningful, close relationships where you eventually end up marrying the girl, then wait 'til you're 30 and wait 'til she's 30, because before a girl starts losing her looks she still wants to be doing things like partying and having threesomes, only a small minority of girls are looking for something serious in their early years.
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EPT
