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On May 27 2011 21:36 Rorra wrote:
At a high level eg. masters+grandmasters all the races are very difficult, merely in different ways.
This is a pointless thread as it is only really relevant for like mid-diamond~ and below, where: Protoss is the easiest, then Terran, and then Zerg.
But of course even that relies on the fact that all players are playing a standard game, as all races have some quite potent all-ins.
The Issue with this thread is that;
most of the terrans and zergs are gonna say; protoss>terran>zerg
while most of the protoss, not wanting to think they play the "easier" race, (even though this is only true at a marginal level, at lower levels) are gonna say, terran>protoss>zerg.
As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
I randomed up to plat and I'd say Zerg can definitely be easiest. Persistently scout and overdefend. Everyone's macro at this level is completely subpar so making a shitload of extra units doesn't hurt you at all and being able to crank out enough drones to saturate a base all at once is totally great.
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I think the 'easy' scale really needs to be put into context. You can't just generalize everything in starcraft 2, since thereare different skill levels and different areas of the game, like early/mid/late.
When it comes right down to winning a 1v1 match I'd have to say Protoss has the best chance to win. Simply because Protoss has the ability to make such powerful units where if you make one or two of said unit, it can be the difference between winning and losing.
A good example from the recent GSL superleague + Show Spoiler +the recent Fruitdealer vs Ace where Fruitdealer was way way way ahead of Ace. He played excellently and countered many things that ace did very well. His big blunder was that he did not account for the fact that he had 0 anti air. So 2 voidrays essentially won the game for Ace. It was an incredible comeback and macro/micro-wise...pretty easy for protoss to pull off. Being smart and safe payed off for Ace even though he made several micro mistakes earlier in the game.
In low level play there is a general idea of "If i get this unit out early, and he can't counter it, I win easily" For terran, it's the banshee, or for toss it's the dt to name a few. Zerg has the muta, which allows you to harass the mineral line and may get you a win like this, but there really is no other unit which allows you to win straight up like this for zerg. In higher level play (with the exception of ZvZ) saying that "oh i'll rush to mutas and hopefully he won't have any anti-air) is a pretty laughable idea since it's quite easy to see a zerg's tech path. There's a spire. oh..mutas.
This is just but one of the dozens of factors that decide whether or not a race is 'easy'.
One of the most important factors to consider is that each race is played different for each matchup. Depending on how you as a player, actually play the game, will decide what race will be easiest for you.
From my experience the majority of random players choose toss. Why is this I wonder. I think it's because since they played all the races they understand the idea of what timing is. They will play each race similarly, trying to do timing attacks with X unit composition and seeing how it works out. Now since Protoss timing attacks are, arguably the strongest in the game (4gate, even after patch is still very strong), it is only natural that a random player will want to be protoss since timing attacks can be effective all the way to the GSL.
Doing all-ins means you don't have to worry very much about what your opponent is doing. It either works or not.
----to answer the question:.
Protoss is the easiest race to get used to. The macro is pretty intuitive as far as gateway units. Too much gas, sentries, too much minerals, zealots, and stalkers for inbetween. ie it's easy to keep your money low. Macro does require attention though, clicking to warp in units is something that no other race has to do. This means that if you are attacking you cannot simultaenously warp in units as easily.
Terran is the easiest to get high rated with. Terran has marines, a unit which never becomes useless, mules which are simply amazing for getting minerals and hence marines. Terran's units are also the most micro-able. Zergs unit's are generally too fast to do any game changing micro+ Show Spoiler +The automaton 2000 illustrates this very well. Marine micro can be done by humans to a very impressive skill level, enough to make marines cost effective against banelings. But you will never see Zerglings micro'd well enough to take out large amounts of seige tanks like the automaton 2000 did. It's just far too fast for anyone to do........yet:D
Zerg has the easiest mechanics. Having large amounts of minerals/gas is less taxing on a zerg player since zerg can spend it very fast. Zerg also has the easiest micro. Virtually all zerg attack units can be 'a moved' if you think about it because it isn't micro that is important for zerg, it's the unit composition and the army engagement that's more important. Getting an economy going for zerg is what the race excels at so it is also the most resilient race when it comes to losing bases.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
At the Lower levels Protoss is the easiest followed by Terran of course this all changes the higher up you get as each race has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
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each race has it's diffictulties.
for non prolevel play:
terranmicro+macro requires a lot of training
zerg requires a TON of gamesense, and you will die extremly often because you did/did not produce units over drones.
Protoss feels a little easier, as you can just blindly play a shitton of different tactics, without really caring what your opponent does and still have a decent success rate
for non prolevel play:
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I'll personally never understand why threads like this pop up. Each race has their own hurdles they need to cross some easier or harder than other races depending on the context. It astonishes me that so many people just automatically peg Protoss easiest due to one or two mechanics that i've read in people's posts.
I personally believe it's a lot harder to establish if a race is "easy" or "hard" than the brief reasons people have given here. Not only that, but also with the amount of routes each race can take, the amount of styles people can play with any given race, who are you (i.e. anyone) to say that a race is easy based on what will probably be bias nonsense or lack of in-depth thought.
: / bad thread, sort of reminds of something you'd see on a WoW forum (e.g. which class is easiest to play!) -_-
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A bad player will do better with protoss than he will with terran or zerg, just because protoss doesnt require you to do as much as terran or zerg does.
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On May 27 2011 21:36 Rorra wrote:
As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
Well, zerg units are pretty much a-move and their lategame macro is very easy and enjoyable compared to other races. The one thing thats holding them back is early game timings and harasses.
Not saying that they are the easiest, but I could see someone think this way. Like many have said, all races have their easy and difficult parts.
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Used to think Terran, but now it's definitely Protoss.
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On May 27 2011 21:29 Shahrazad wrote:
I voted zerg because if you know how to scout, it's easiest to respond to what your opponent is doing while maintaining good economy. At lower levels, protoss and terran might seem easier, but truly zerg is the most forgiving race.
How can a race where one mistakes means you die be most forgiving O.o?
I agree that zerg has the easiest time responding as long as the player is scouting well, but how is that forgiving?
Zerg is the only race where you can play really well and still lose to someone bad because of one decision which wasn't directly bad. Say the opponent has a bit of his army hidden. You scout his army, see that it's ok and drone one cycle. He comes with everything he has and you die without any chance of defending. You scouted and you responded appropriately, yet you die.
If a protoss makes a similar mistake, they can fallback and use forcefields to stall for time, but unless zerg has infestors, there's no way to stall or defend. You fight and hope to god you can get enough lings out in time to destroy his army which was bigger than you accounted for.
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On May 27 2011 18:41 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 18:37 freetgy wrote:
there is no easy race,
each race has its difficulties. Definitely agree. This thread is just asking for a flame war.
i'll side with those two brethren - your poll is missing the fourth option, so i didn't vote
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Depends on what you think is ''easy''.
I believe the macro while battling for example is easier for zergs because imo zerg requires the least amounts of micro.
I also think that toss is the eAsier race to get into but it gets more difficult on the way up.
Terran's multitaskin play is very demanding but it is not the only way to play.
In general I think zerg is the easiest race, because now that the " just allin him " days have passed they have the best "mechanics" if you will. Making 14 drones at once is just an amazing thing to be able to do. Even the so-called difficulty which is injecting can be nullified by macro hatches.
Couple that with the possibility to make a ton of drones after being harassed pretty much makes it my opinion.
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On May 27 2011 21:39 maahes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 21:36 Rorra wrote:
At a high level eg. masters+grandmasters all the races are very difficult, merely in different ways.
This is a pointless thread as it is only really relevant for like mid-diamond~ and below, where: Protoss is the easiest, then Terran, and then Zerg.
But of course even that relies on the fact that all players are playing a standard game, as all races have some quite potent all-ins.
The Issue with this thread is that;
most of the terrans and zergs are gonna say; protoss>terran>zerg
while most of the protoss, not wanting to think they play the "easier" race, (even though this is only true at a marginal level, at lower levels) are gonna say, terran>protoss>zerg.
As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
I randomed up to plat and I'd say Zerg can definitely be easiest. Persistently scout and overdefend. Everyone's macro at this level is completely subpar so making a shitload of extra units doesn't hurt you at all and being able to crank out enough drones to saturate a base all at once is totally great.
I'll admit I didn't consider something like that as the issue is that if you become accustomed, "being able to scout" or sacking to many overlords, or rather more particularly if you become used to over defending(and assuming you'll still come out ahead), it could really hamper your improvement, I had assumed that as well as playing a standard game, you would have the goal of improving, though I realize not everyone has this goal.
The other issue is that I'd consider over-defending, if you don't have a strong economy running a fault in play as opposed to something making it easier to win as zerg. The issue with you point implying this is that you mention that as zerg, other players macro has been subpar when comparable, this kind of supports the idea that you have to have stronger fundamental skill, at least macro/mechanically w/ zerg to compete at that level, this implies that zerg is more difficult
Edit: Ok I see you might mean that everyone's macro is supar including the zergs, and that the extra money being floated is what allows the zerg to over-defend. Though to be honest the reality is that players are still equally bad at their macro in that situation, so its almost technically just as easy for Protoss to throw down a few extra wargates to make up for the difference. besides while macro is definitely the main thing holding back lower level players, it simply isn't the only thing to be considered.
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On May 27 2011 21:02 Bagi wrote:
The one thing that made me vote for protoss was the fact that they can play extremely passive.
Both terrans and zergs have to work their ass off to hinder the protoss building up their army. Good harass and multipronged attacks are essential, and that stuff takes alot of multitasking. Protoss harass options on the other hand feel almost detrimental, and why would you harass if you don't have to? Just build up your army and defend your bases, your army will be better anyway.
When a zerg or terran beats a protoss, it actually feels like they worked hard to outplay them. When a protoss player wins, it often feels like they did nothing special, just massed up their ball and threw a couple of forcefields.
Yes I realize this is an overly simplified look at things, but theres some truth in it too imho.
This probably explains the whole thing about Protoss. They have too much firepower in mid to late game, while they have too little in early game. There has to be a balance.
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On May 27 2011 21:46 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 21:29 Shahrazad wrote:
I voted zerg because if you know how to scout, it's easiest to respond to what your opponent is doing while maintaining good economy. At lower levels, protoss and terran might seem easier, but truly zerg is the most forgiving race. How can a race where one mistakes means you die be most forgiving O.o? I agree that zerg has the easiest time responding as long as the player is scouting well, but how is that forgiving? Zerg is the only race where you can play really well and still lose to someone bad because of one decision which wasn't directly bad. Say the opponent has a bit of his army hidden. You scout his army, see that it's ok and drone one cycle. He comes with everything he has and you die without any chance of defending. You scouted and you responded appropriately, yet you die. If a protoss makes a similar mistake, they can fallback and use forcefields to stall for time, but unless zerg has infestors, there's no way to stall or defend. You fight and hope to god you can get enough lings out in time to destroy his army which was bigger than you accounted for.
That zerg response is actually NOT correct. You scout the army, but unless you know the timings of your opponent really well, and you don't see any extra tech or expos, you actually don't know if you saw his entire army. Say, if you see his first medivacs pop out at around 9 mins after an early expo, like in the last daily, you KNOW that he does not have a third and that he went for the starport quickly after he took his expo. In your example, the information provided did not give any certainty whatsoever, and thus droning for an entire cycle was actually an extremely risky move.
I believe the races to be about equal in difficulty, but unequal in the skills needed to be succesfull.
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As a player who's played both Zerg and Terran to diamond level now I feel that zerg is easier on the lower levels due to people not knowing how to split units correctly, making infestors and banelings extremely good vs pretty much anything.
Most terran/protosses don't really know how to react to mutalisks neither and either overcommit to turrets or just sit in their base while the zerg can take the rest of the map. I think that Zergs pretty much get free wins vs clueless terrans, while protoss gets free wins vs zerg that are clueless, TvP in the lower leagues can shift so much so I can't really say, personally I never had any trouble vs protoss as I had a good build to use as T...
On diamond-master level I feel that Zerg is probably the hardest in terms of general gameplay, you need good gamesense etc, otherwise you'll end up dead.
I feel that Terran is the most micro intensive race, constantly splitting your units, attacking on multiple fronts is basically standard as terran (drops everywhere etc) and keeping up with the money gain that you get through mules can be hard for anyone below diamond...
I don't have much to say about protoss, I'd say that if you make it to 3 bases and late-game it's probably the easiest race to play at high level, you have tons of AoE and unless your opponent is good at spreading out, getting a good concave etc he'll get obliterated in a matter of seconds...
At top level I feel that every race is hard to play really, you see some people such as Cruncher mass up a superdeathball and roll over his opponent, I don't have much to say about that but other then that I feel that every race seems quite challenging at the top level, nobody can say that Terran micro is "easy", you can't just say "split", there's a reason MKP does such good splits and others dont; he's fucking good.
one last thing: I have a much easier time macroing as a zerg, personally I use the backspace inject method and it works out wonders, as a terran I feel it's much harder to balance and spend all your resources, you can spend all your money on a certain amount of raxes and suddenly when you get another base you get a huge income of money etc, unless you know how many production facilities to add for each gas/mineral you saturate it can be hard imho!
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If I was as much of a troll as the people you are trying to attract with that kind of thread, I'd answer that your mom's the easiest race.
But of course I'm not a troll, so I'll say that Protoss is probably the easiest race to learn, but all races are about as hard(or easy, whatever you prefer, my glass is half full)to be competitive with.
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I would like to suggest the following experiment:
There are random GM players that play each race well, but are outmatched when pitted against pro players. The random GM now plays a game series against a pro (e.g. Idra), the following rules:
- The random player picks a race that would result in a non-mirror match.
- After each games both players swap races.
- Whoever wins two games in a row shall be declared the winner of the series.
Using multiple random players and multiple pros it should be possible to start statistics on how easy a race is to play at high level.
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On May 27 2011 18:37 freetgy wrote:
Terran just may feel easier cause it is the safest races due to their design. (good defensiv options, cost effective Units)
oO, with the bunker compared to the photon canon and the spine crawlers and the 200/200 losing to both other races, I feel that terran has the less cost effectives units and the less good defensive options.
Not saying terran is weak, but your point is false.
On May 27 2011 18:43 DarthXX wrote:
Pointless thread >< its like asking what everybody's favourite unit is.
I think that thread idea is good, if you can make a long-enough poll.
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On May 27 2011 18:34 TENTHST wrote:So I bounce back and forth to and from the Blizzard Forums sometimes and I have come across a large number of threads stating " (insert race) is ez and (insert race) is hard". Then, of course, there will be the obligatory " no noob. l2p. (insert race) is 10x harder than (insert race)." And as there is no poll option on the Blizzard Forums, I wanted to get an idea of where the TL community stands on this issue. "Easiest" meaning a combination of both Macro and Micro multi-tasking. Try to look at it generally and make your decision. Preferably just vote in the poll and move on. However, if you have a specific reason to post, then do so at your own risk. I can see how this might get out of hand, so try to keep it as objective as possible. I'm interested in this purely for the statistical data. Poll: Overall, which race do you consider the easiest?Protoss (556) 61% Terran (252) 27% Zerg (109) 12% 917 total votes Your vote: Overall, which race do you consider the easiest? (Vote): Protoss
(Vote): Terran
(Vote): Zerg
Personally, I would rank Terran as the easiest race. Small characteristics like Supply Drop, a generalized 2.25 move speed, Planetarys and no-cooldown MULES are the basis of my opinion. However the micro requirements of Terran in certain matchups is high (namely T v Z and T v T). Of course, many think that the lessened micro requirements of Zerg define it as easy. I disagree because of the larva inject requirement, and the uselessness of mass melee units, but thats just me. I agree that the fact that you can catch up on macro with 1 or 2 larva cycles enables a wider range of "all-ins" possible, which allows for more flexibility in builds. And I'm also beginning to see a lot of "toss = ezmode" thrown around recently, and I totally disagree. The fact that tier 1 and 2 units move at different speeds, as well as have varying ranges, make Protoss more difficult that I think some people are giving it credit for. Micro with toss, aside from Colossus micro, is relatively taxing; having your Zealots in front, or your Sentrys in range, or your Immortal not being blocked by Stalkers can be the difference between a win or a loss.
another thread asking for flame - why admins let threads like this go unpunished i simply cannot understand. no race is easy, each has its difficulties but ofc we all know that whiners will gather here like ants to compare dick sizes and complain over nothing.
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EPT
