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On January 07 2011 10:06 FOUTWENTYSIXTY wrote:
4 GSLs on Blistering Sands is enough. When I see that map come up I make a coffee. I'm starting to get the caffeine urge for Delta, Steppes, and more and more Xel' Naga, close positions Metal. I don't need to watch games to know what's going to happen anymore, it's pathetic. The other day we had two games on Shakuras in a row and I watched them with baited breath. Not because boxer unveiled an amazing macro strategy, but because I had no idea what would happen next.
A new set of macro maps, and a week between games and we might actually have a tournament that isn't dryer than sandpaper, that makes you go wow I wonder what will happen. After 6 months 4 gates shouldn't be the build to beat, but they are.
This one is even better post. This should be done yesterday.
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Ugh. Once again the thread has devolved into an SC2 vs BW thread. So sad. So sad...
Come on guys. I enjoy watching both BW and SC2 because both games are awesome. It's hard to say that SC2 is crap to watch when we have epic games like Clide vs Leenock, MC vs Rain, Jinro vs Socke, etc. It's hard to say that BW should be replaced when there are still so many high level games and strategies being developed.
The problem isn't entirely Blizzard's fault. It isn't entirely KeSPA's fault. It's mostly YOUR fault for bashing on Starcraft, no matter its form. Every BW vs SC2 thread has never been constructive. Indeed, they have been most destructive and polarizes the community. TL may be a site founded on BW, but it is still a site that celebrates everything Starcraft. Like it or not, both games are here to stay and deserve respect and support.
Seriously. I hate haters, and you all should too.
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Its cause over half the games are cheesy or boil down to build orders rather than skill, and the overall skill level of the GSL is laughable compared to brood war. I mean Iron and Zergbong winning? Really???
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It just means we have to up the anti and make SC2 big in the West. Imagine that, the western world the center of the modern SC esports scene. Ohhh what a happy day it would be.
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I think if nada boxer mvp and july hadn't switched gsl would be as empty as me playing super meat boy and not beating boss 2 ...
I guess there is no argument as for why should they switch to sc2 if bw is working ...
it's like saying u must play chess tournament ONLY on mac u cant play on a table nor on a pc ....
(at least seem to be what koreans think ...)
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On January 07 2011 10:12 eviltomahawk wrote:
Like it or not, both games are here to stay and deserve respect and support.
err.. last i heard, blizzard is out to destroy the BW proscene.
SC2 will live on because gom has what seems to be infinite amount of money to use.
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Dunno about you guys but for me BW its not just a game ... Ive played BW for +8 years( half of this period was only LAN - yes blizzard who needs LAN ? ). I dont ever get bored playing . Some periods I play alot and some periods I play close to none but Im always back playing sooner or later and im excited for every game like it was my first one. BW is a part of my life and I will never stop playing it. And whenever i watch pro BW i watch a sport like watching football on TV. BW its not E-sport for me its just a sport.
As for SC2 I still havent played it and tried to watch some games(actually alot whole GSL1 and partially s2 and s3 ) but its just like every other game out there. Spectating GSL matches in general was plain boring for me. Maybe In the future I will play SC2 but I can see myself getting bored of it sooner or later like any other video game Ive played in my life.
Its just the way it is... SC2 is a new game which is fun to play for a while like every new game but its damn terrible to watch. Mostly as many ppl stated for their uniteresting units and terribad maps.Maybe this will change or maybe will not. We will see what the future brings.
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On January 07 2011 10:09 lazyfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:39 dcberkeley wrote:On January 07 2011 09:31 YerknYass wrote:
It's like you guys are trying to deny the rise of Rock n' Roll. Yes, there are flaws in GOM's approach and in Blizz's approach, but the slow, laborious nature of Blizzard's implementation just means that everyone needs to be patient. I could really care less about the Korean scene and if Broodwar becomes the standard there, because the Western world absolutely has no signs of turning back to BW. Broodwar has lost the potential for new fans, it just simply looks and acts too archaic. Starcraft II is the future... so for all of you singing doomsday a) Don't be negative and stereotypical pompous nerds..no one enjoys that and b) know that if Starcraft II falls, eSports falls. So instead of whining about bad maps, support map makers. Instead of screaming about all-ins, learn to combat them so effectively that they die out in popularity. Purist, fundamentalists resistent to change have never thrived in any time during history, I doubt they will now. There are so many wrong things about this post, I'm not sure you understand that TL was born for the love of BW and nobody who came here for BW wants it to die. And frankly if BW died, there'd be serious consequences for eSports. SC2? Not so much. lol "Serious consequences" like what? if bw die it could affect korea esport but it wont move a thing outside of korea.
Because bw right now is the epitome of how E-Sports should work?
They got an organisation behind that pulls the strings (kespa), they got teams that
provide the gamers with a house, food and practice environement and salaries.
If you want to raise an e-sports scene, anywhere, you're gonna look first to korea and
copy stuff they did right.
But if the bw scene dies, it could be an alarm clock that e-sports isn't suitable for the public,
thus rendering attemps to gather sponsor for this fucking huge establishment much much much harder, if not even flat out impossible.
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On January 07 2011 10:17 SkelA wrote:
Dunno about you guys but for me BW its not just a game ... Ive played BW for +8 years( half of this period was only LAN - yes blizzard who needs LAN ? ). I dont ever get bored playing . Some periods I play alot and some periods I play close to none but Im always back playing sooner or later and im excited for every game like it was my first one. BW is a part of my life and I will never stop playing it. And whenever i watch pro BW i watch a sport like watching football on TV. BW its not E-sport for me its just a sport.
As for SC2 I still havent played it and tried to watch some games(actually alot whole GSL1 and partially s2 and s3 ) but its just like every other game out there. Spectating GSL matches in general was plain boring for me. Maybe In the future I will play SC2 but I can see myself getting bored of it sooner or later like any other video game Ive played in my life.
Its just the way it is... SC2 is a new game which is fun to play for a while like every new game but its damn terrible to watch. Mostly as many ppl stated for their uniteresting units and terribad maps.Maybe this will change or maybe will not. We will see what the future brings.
good post 1+
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On January 07 2011 10:12 eviltomahawk wrote:
Ugh. Once again the thread has devolved into an SC2 vs BW thread. So sad. So sad...
Come on guys. I enjoy watching both BW and SC2 because both games are awesome. It's hard to say that SC2 is crap to watch when we have epic games like Clide vs Leenock, MC vs Rain, Jinro vs Socke, etc. It's hard to say that BW should be replaced when there are still so many high level games and strategies being developed.
The problem isn't entirely Blizzard's fault. It isn't entirely KeSPA's fault. It's mostly YOUR fault for bashing on Starcraft, no matter its form. Every BW vs SC2 thread has never been constructive. Indeed, they have been most destructive and polarizes the community. TL may be a site founded on BW, but it is still a site that celebrates everything Starcraft. Like it or not, both games are here to stay and deserve respect and support.
Seriously. I hate haters, and you all should too.
if you have ever read about the thread, you should be surprised that over 90% of the people here, regardless of having a brain or not, agrees that blizzard should cooperate with us if they are giving us the responsibility. so what is polarizing after all? did you read the 40+ page post of iccupdiamond in battle.net? fanboy?
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About the fact bw audience has been declining for a few years, while it's partially true, I've never seen figure proving that it declined between 2008 and now.
KT vs SKT last month had 4th viewership ratings on national TV.
Pretty good for a dying guess, nope ?
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On January 07 2011 10:17 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:09 lazyfeet wrote:On January 07 2011 09:39 dcberkeley wrote:On January 07 2011 09:31 YerknYass wrote:
It's like you guys are trying to deny the rise of Rock n' Roll. Yes, there are flaws in GOM's approach and in Blizz's approach, but the slow, laborious nature of Blizzard's implementation just means that everyone needs to be patient. I could really care less about the Korean scene and if Broodwar becomes the standard there, because the Western world absolutely has no signs of turning back to BW. Broodwar has lost the potential for new fans, it just simply looks and acts too archaic. Starcraft II is the future... so for all of you singing doomsday a) Don't be negative and stereotypical pompous nerds..no one enjoys that and b) know that if Starcraft II falls, eSports falls. So instead of whining about bad maps, support map makers. Instead of screaming about all-ins, learn to combat them so effectively that they die out in popularity. Purist, fundamentalists resistent to change have never thrived in any time during history, I doubt they will now. There are so many wrong things about this post, I'm not sure you understand that TL was born for the love of BW and nobody who came here for BW wants it to die. And frankly if BW died, there'd be serious consequences for eSports. SC2? Not so much. lol "Serious consequences" like what? if bw die it could affect korea esport but it wont move a thing outside of korea. Because bw right now is the epitome of how E-Sports should work? They got an organisation behind that pulls the strings (kespa), they got teams that provide the gamers with a house, food and practice environement and salaries. If you want to raise an e-sports scene, anywhere, you're gonna look first to korea and copy stuff they did right. But if the bw scene dies, it could be an alarm clock that e-sports isn't suitable for the public, thus rendering attemps to gather sponsor for this fucking huge establishment much much much harder, if not even flat out impossible.
u know that they not only have BW over there?  its "just" the big one^^
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One day the rest of you will realize Promod is our only salvation, but by then I fear it will be too late
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It will be interesting to see how long Blizz, GOM, and other orgs continue to ignore thier fans that want new maps, also more interesting to see how long before the maps issue reaches a breaking point ala Chat Channels.
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I just want to mention that like Korea, China's not exactly caring too much for SC2 either. For example, stats on VODs of yesterday's matchs
Loner vs imppipi: 5000+ hits for both the games
MSL Ro16 day 1: Jaedong/Midas 22000+ Bisu/Stork: 21000+ hydra/classic: 15000+ great/action: 11000+
I know it's MSL Ro16. But a Chinese progamer(who also won with sick games) can't even get half as many hits as great and action?
For me personally, two things really mess up my enjoyment of SC2. One is the maps, which really don't promote macro play. It also doesn't promote multiple attacks ala bio TvZ on BW. The other is the way units are clumped. Even 150+ food count engagements look boring and finish quickly. There's no sense of "massive army engaging" type of feel.
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Guys, guys, guys, guys...
The real test for SC2 will come somewhere around the middle of this year. The game is too young for it to lose it's audience. If it can retain the same crowd, or almost the same, 'till the middle of next year - great. If we lose 50% viewrship - than the ship has sunken and no amount of expansions will help it. This will be the real test, was the game good or was the scene artificially inflated?
Of course I am talking about the West, I have too little information to talk about Korea...
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I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that Korea is a cheesefest right now.
Foreign tournaments don't suffer from low attendance like this, and just by coincidence, foreigners like to macro more.
All of this boils down to the need for better maps in the end.
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These stats surprised me a lot. GSL is the only SC2 I watch religiously because the total talent pool is way larger than any other event. Their online base + subsbriber revenue must be very significant compared to live attendance. I'm sure popularity overall will grow a lot as more Korean players (and viewers) switch over.
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On January 07 2011 10:19 lofung wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:12 eviltomahawk wrote:
Ugh. Once again the thread has devolved into an SC2 vs BW thread. So sad. So sad...
Come on guys. I enjoy watching both BW and SC2 because both games are awesome. It's hard to say that SC2 is crap to watch when we have epic games like Clide vs Leenock, MC vs Rain, Jinro vs Socke, etc. It's hard to say that BW should be replaced when there are still so many high level games and strategies being developed.
The problem isn't entirely Blizzard's fault. It isn't entirely KeSPA's fault. It's mostly YOUR fault for bashing on Starcraft, no matter its form. Every BW vs SC2 thread has never been constructive. Indeed, they have been most destructive and polarizes the community. TL may be a site founded on BW, but it is still a site that celebrates everything Starcraft. Like it or not, both games are here to stay and deserve respect and support.
Seriously. I hate haters, and you all should too. if you have ever read about the thread, you should be surprised that over 90% of the people here, regardless of having a brain or not, agrees that blizzard should cooperate with us if they are giving us the responsibility. so what is polarizing after all? did you read the 40+ page post of iccupdiamond in battle.net? fanboy?
Indeed, 90% of the thread has been quite constructive. I guess I just had throw out this opinion after seeing so much SC2 vs BW bull in other threads.
I regret saying that the thread has devolved into SC2 vs BW, but the few people who do the one line "sc2/bw sucks! bw/sc2 is way better!" really make my blood boil, even if they are the minority in this thread.
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On January 07 2011 10:29 HunterStarcraft wrote:
These stats surprised me a lot. GSL is the only SC2 I watch religiously because the total talent pool is way larger than any other event. Their online base + subsbriber revenue must be very significant compared to live attendance. I'm sure popularity overall will grow a lot as more Korean players (and viewers) switch over.
Why are they going to switch over?
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EPT
