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On December 26 2010 05:53 Angra wrote:
A lot of people do it in general just because they see others do it, but then it becomes habit after awhile and it just happens. Kind of like swapping weapons back and forth for no reason in an FPS.
Umm... Yah that's basically the clean cut answer why.
The first and main reason is because of sheer habit, and environment.
Pro gamers did it in BW because it helped to get the fingers moving, and for apm. However this was viewed by thousands of people, who did the same in response.
So basically what happens is everyone starts doing APM spam at the beginning. Does it really help with our starts? Probably not, most games don't even care if your micro was that good.
The FPS example is perfect, because it actually is the exact damn same thing. People might've done it to "warm up", because it also moves their fingers. But I mean, how much does that really do? Just like in SC 2 you have to mainly focus on decision making, FPS is heavily orientated to aiming properly, not click spamming. It just becomes something so many people do, when they see "pro" people doing it, or just a bunch of people in general.
It's simply peer pressure, except it's not a bad thing.
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I just like to play fast as I possibly can because it feels really good to be (trying to) playing fast. It's more, for me atleast, like a habit/get in the groove type deal like most other people who do it see it as.
I like how day9 said it. That it's never bad to have high apm, it's always going to be better to have 200 apm as opposed to 100. Unless you're one of those extreme cases where you get so caught up in the apm spamming itself that it actually starts to become a hindrance to your gameplay, but you're not that guy are you now?:D
edit: Also would like to add that it's also a very psychological thing to spam for me atleast, because it gives you the sense that you have more control and gives you more confidence in your execution, and that can never be bad right?:D Probably stating the obvious, lol.
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Russian Federation266 Posts
I didnt understand spaming , untill resently. I've started spaming at the start of every game ecause it not only helps me get my mouse hand warmed up but allso helps me concentrate on the game.
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Its preference, some people spam for consistency, others spam to build. If you notice your apm spam is 200 but after 5 mins you drop back down to 80 or w/e then your spamming either to warm up, or to get better.
Those who prefer to build start with a 2 key spam and work their way to 3 key spam / 4 key spam as they add more buildings into the hot keys. Consistency spam is where you hotkey something into each button you will use later, and then spam them in the same order you would use later and at the same pace.
When you scout with your worker, you should be looking at your scout 65% of the time, and relying on your hotkey spam to produce workers / base management. The same mindset will carry over to late game when you are in mid battle and find yourself spamming more workers out of your nex/hat/cc or re building your army.
2 reasons why i like the spam:
a. its good for warmup / first couple games of the day.
b. its a good transition between games = you just get out of a game and want to maintain the gaming mode you were in.
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Being a player who likes micro, I spam with my mouse. If i dont, I tend to misclick. also hitting 5 (my Nexus/Hatchery/CC) so i know where the hotkeys are. 5 is right in the middle.
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On January 02 2011 15:04 AmBroSiaJr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2010 13:14 bobucles wrote:
You do stretches before exercise, right? Pro players spam APM for the same thing. It's done to warm up. Has nothing to do with keeping fingers "warm". That's HUGE myth that TL.net community belives in. If ur fingers are cold, put the heater on. People spam to always know where their fingers are on the keyboard at all time, so you don't have to look down as much (which is a lot different than warming up imo).
haha man you're taking the phrase "warm up" too literally.
as a pianist i equate spamming APM in starcraft to practicing scales/arpeggios in music. the scales themselves aren't "music," but they improve your ability to make music. likewise, the spammed actions themselves don't change your macro/micro, but they improve your ability to macro/micro when you need it.
also, probably most importantly... spamming right click move commands to control units movement is incredibly helpful/essential for assisting the sometimes not-so-intelligent pathing AI find the safest/quickest routes. i'm sure everyone already knows this but i haven't seen it mentioned in any of these threads (maybe it was and i'm just restating it, whatever).
edit: i should note that i was guilty of excessive QQ spam (weapon switch hotkey) in counter-strike, especially when using the awp.
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its solely to keep your hands warm and moving fast. In high level games you will get nervous and your hands will get cold if you aren't keeping them moving and warm. You don't have to spam if you don't want to, but if you do learn to spam all the way though the game then you will actually begin to play faster because you will learn to use those actions beneficially instead of just worthless spam.
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Spamming is just a way of keeping yourself in tempo. If you want to be fast you'd better practice being fast all the damn time.
I'm sure there are pros who either don't do or just plain don't need to, but there are just as many (if not more) who swear by it.
Short -> If it helps you, do it, if it doesn't, don't.
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On December 26 2010 05:00 gr8ape wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2010 13:14 bobucles wrote:
You do stretches before exercise, right? Pro players spam APM for the same thing. It's done to warm up. Stretching doesnt warm you up, warming up does.
Yeah, I was thinking about that comment. Stretching is what you do afterwards, right? To loosen up the muscles after the workout and reduce the pain you get the day after?
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i actuallly dont feel the need to warm up by spaming apm.. couse well im a guitar player thats my carrer actually so i have fast and precise fingers but, my apm get as high as 310 when i do multi drops or multi front atacks etc
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I'm more interested in my natural APM so I don't spam and see what it builds up to by the end of the game.
I'm also of the mindset that APM increase is more of a mental barrier than a physical barrier. basically, I want my thought process in-game to be "I should do this and this and this, then this and this and this" and avoid my thought process from ever pausing and asking "what should I do next?"
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APM is for e-penis only. All clowns spam like crazy in the beginning scoring 200-250 apm but when they actually have to make actions rather than pointless clicking, it drops down to 150 and less as time passes by. Average is still high because 4 mins of spamming 250 weigh alot but in reality it's closer to 110-140.
It not how fast you click, it's how fast you think and how creative you are. Simple fact that some top diamonds average less than 100 is a hard argument.
Pros might need it, self imposing a rhythm. 99% of 342525 apm arent pros, just monkeys.
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I APM spam to get warmed up. I like going back and fourth between hotkeys 1, 4, and 5 to get into a rhythm. 1 is my scouting probe, 4 is my production buildings, and 5 is my nexus. I also drag boxes over workers to get the motion down. I don't care what anyone says, if you are practicing the motions and clicks that you will be using in game, it is going to help at least slightly. Especially when you're playing the first game of the day after just waking up.
Making your hands active in the early stages of the game can really set the tone for the rest of the game. It almost helps you carry over momentum from the last game to keep you active and not super relaxed.
To all of the people saying that APM spamming is pointless and it doesn't help at all: just do you, and I'll do me. I'm sure some people APM spam as insanely fast as they can just for the sake of having a high APM.. but why do people really give a fuck? When people spam for the sake of spamming, it gets to the point where they're not actually trying to simulate in-game motions.
In short, it helps maintain tempo throughout the entire game, from game to game.
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Some of the featured streamers here on TL are good examples of different APM "play styles". For example, if you watch Trump's stream he never spams in the beginning but he is a very highly ranked diamond player (3000+). Other people like Huk or qxc spam like crazy but their play style is noticably more erratic and all-over-the-place. A player like White-ra usually averages around 100 APM yet he is a pro-gamer.
As both a piano and guitar player though, I think that seemingly random and useless hand movements such as APM spamming is akin to doing scales on an instrument. Over time, the spam will definitely strengthen your hands to the point where execution becomes pure muscle memory, and every advantage counts during an SC2 game.
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On January 02 2011 17:36 Aldehyde wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2010 05:00 gr8ape wrote:On December 25 2010 13:14 bobucles wrote:
You do stretches before exercise, right? Pro players spam APM for the same thing. It's done to warm up. Stretching doesnt warm you up, warming up does. Yeah, I was thinking about that comment. Stretching is what you do afterwards, right? To loosen up the muscles after the workout and reduce the pain you get the day after?
I guess you guys have no experience with sports whatsoever..
Stretching is indeed to reduce muscle pain etc, but you do it before the excercising, and it does fall under the category of warming up. (If you don't stretch muscles before heavy excercise you might damage them even.)
Though I think the pianist's example is better. APM spam just gets you to focus and play fast. Maybe it doesn't work for all people but for some people it certainly does.
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On January 02 2011 19:47 OrangeNinja21 wrote:
As both a piano and guitar player though, I think that seemingly random and useless hand movements such as APM spamming is akin to doing scales on an instrument. Over time, the spam will definitely strengthen your hands to the point where execution becomes pure muscle memory, and every advantage counts during an SC2 game.
ive no experience on playing musical instruments but i was always under the impression musicians repeat certain sequences, not randomly pinching strings
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I don't spam because of peer pressure or for apm considerations. I got the habit from broodwar where I trained myself to constantly keep my hands busy throughout the game. It just feels natural to do it at the start of the game even when technically it's not useful at all. I do think it's a good habit as I use it to "calibrate" my fingers by selecting individual scvs and aiming them at precise spots on the minerals. By the time perform the actions in useful things my hands have already gotten the rhythm.
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The right answer for me is "it feels natural" - I'm not lying, if I don't spam following a certain rythm (I don't draw much boxes, I just constantly switch through control groups) then I tend to play sloppier, forget stuff etc.....I'm just not on top of things.
Nevertheless the uttermost important aspect: I don't "focus" on the spamming, it's quite the opposite, I would have to focus "not" to follow my usual pattern of switching through groups.
On a sidenote:
If you don't stretch muscles before heavy excercise you might damage them even.
I do triathlon and stretching before heavy excercise has to be done really carefully because you reduce the muscle "tonus" you need for getting the most out of your body. "Static" stretching has nothing to do with warming up, it's for "relaxing" the muscle - exactly the opposite you need before training sessions, you want to get the muscle active.
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Ye its more of making control with your controls. I mean when i first started spamming i accidently pressed Stop when trying to make an scv and i then stopped all my workers. But this nowadays helps me to swtich more rapidly in control groups without making any of those misstakes. Thats the point of everything, its warms you up and even thou it maybe only give you 2% more accurate then its worth it i belive.
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EPT
