EPT
[Q] What does spamming APM do?
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
justindab0mb
United States213 Posts
| ||
|
Moonling
United States987 Posts
Basically switching back and forth from workers to base is the same as switching back from army to base its a warm up hopefully to continue throughout game but this has been discussed | ||
|
rebdomine
6040 Posts
It's more a personal preference really. If you feel like you need your hands moving fast from the get-go, you should spam. But if you're getting by fine without doing it, (and you're able to pull off high apm when you need it) there's no real need for you to spam. | ||
|
cripsybacon
United States24 Posts
| ||
|
Terminator(471)
United States243 Posts
| ||
|
Supamang
United States2298 Posts
id still be lying if i said i dont like seeing the high apm numbers though | ||
|
eth3n
718 Posts
I have heard TLO mock the practice multiple times, so I assume it confers no other advantages (FINGER EXERCISE MFER!!!). Of course for those who actually want to see if their overall APM is steadily improving, to do it throughout the game makes it meaningless (if you only do it in the beginning then you could of course still check your legitimate APM in fights i guess ^_^) | ||
|
bobucles
410 Posts
| ||
|
Freeheals
United States488 Posts
| ||
|
kurrysauce
272 Posts
| ||
|
Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
| ||
|
Getz
United States559 Posts
| ||
|
Leviwtf
174 Posts
I can see the purpose of it back in the BW days when APM was a requirement to macro well. | ||
|
coreydota
United States180 Posts
| ||
|
Hollywise
France112 Posts
| ||
|
DarkRise
1644 Posts
| ||
|
pwnageplus
34 Posts
On December 25 2010 14:07 Leviwtf wrote: Its pointless, if you tell your scvs to stop mining or move them even once in a 1000 games it wasn't worth it. I think alot of people need to play calmer and slower instead of trying to hype themselves up. You only need about 100 apm to do everything you need to do. I can see the purpose of it back in the BW days when APM was a requirement to macro well. When I spam I press 4/5 along with highlighting all of my workers. No fingers go anywhere near the stop or hold command, or even the right click. I will never mis-micro my workers early as a result of spamming. | ||
|
Deathmanbob
United States2356 Posts
| ||
|
BMSupreme
United States24 Posts
But I average around 40-50, and pull off more when i have to | ||
|
Selkie
United States530 Posts
| ||
|
Phoenix_XY
56 Posts
On December 25 2010 14:12 pwnageplus wrote: When I spam I press 4/5 along with highlighting all of my workers. No fingers go anywhere near the stop or hold command, or even the right click. I will never mis-micro my workers early as a result of spamming. Hes talking about terran where s builds scv and s is also stop when it happens, its such a bitch. sometimes people even rage and gg right there and then. god annoying when it happens | ||
|
decaf
Austria1797 Posts
| ||
|
Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
Most people think that their APM is limiting factor in becoming better, they feel they cant execute everything they need to. But actually, the key is remembering things. If u have good mental check list of what u need to be doing, then u have nothing to fear. Your hands will just follow. I am easily beating players with 120+ average apm. Some of it comes from spamming, most of it from not using hotkeys. Remember this well - using hotkeys actually decreases need for apm. | ||
|
Crankenstein
Australia150 Posts
Some of my friends and I have APM matches occasionaly, that's pretty fun ^_^ | ||
|
kosai
20 Posts
| ||
|
Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On December 25 2010 22:30 kosai wrote: APM in SC2 is like penis size IRL. i hope it clears everything out Need at least 10 to be useful at all? | ||
|
Crankenstein
Australia150 Posts
| ||
|
Triss_Teh
United States32 Posts
I dont spam a crazy amount maybe only 150 to start and then level off to my average of 80 but i have noticed in games i dont spam to start my apm is lower. - Deathmanbob Your APM is lower in games where you don't spam because you have less total actions in the game. Personally I APM spam to calm me down. Yes warm fingers are important, that's why i play with fingerless gloves  | ||
|
Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
| ||
|
Silmakuoppaanikinko
799 Posts
On December 25 2010 21:33 Mali__Slon wrote: I would say that games where after the first 30 seconds there is still truly 'nothing to do' are extremely rare. In the first 30 seconds though there is truly sometimes 'nothing to do', if I click my nexus, press e, then split my workers, and after that set a rally point from my nexus, I then hotkey it to 3, I truly have nothing to do before I get 50 minerals, and then I do nothing, in fact, I usually just chat it up then and make stupid funny remarks. After your scouting workers is sent though, there is no longer any idle time. You can watch the path the worker takes diligently to see any proxies for one.From expaerience i can tell u that plain spamming does nothing. Most my games i average between 50 and 60 apm. But if u look at start of the game my apm is sometimes 0, because there is nothing to do... Its true that while i was gold, or plat player I averaged lower - first around 20, then around 35-40. As your skill rises, so will your apm... Though, your point is valid I would say, as long as you need to 'find stuff to do', apm should not be your concern. A good player's limiting factor will always be his hands, not his mind. You should always have more in your mind to do than you can do within the time of the game, and this should go natural. And this comes naturally after a while. | ||
|
Igaryu85
Germany195 Posts
I see it like some others here that your APM just rises with you getting better not the other way around. I dont spamn atm as it makes me do mistakes and why should I learn to do something useless just to maybe warm my fingers or such nonesense;) | ||
|
ALPINA
3791 Posts
On December 25 2010 21:33 Mali__Slon wrote:Most people think that their APM is limiting factor in becoming better, they feel they cant execute everything they need to. But actually, the key is remembering things. If u have good mental check list of what u need to be doing, then u have nothing to fear. Your hands will just follow. I am easily beating players with 120+ average apm. Some of it comes from spamming, most of it from not using hotkeys. Remember this well - using hotkeys actually decreases need for apm. Yes, I think APM can be limiting factor to become better. Sometimes I know that I need to do ton of things in late game but I am just too slow to do all that fast. In the begining of the game spaming helps to be fast in the mid/late game too. I can't imagine sitting with 10apm in first 2min and then jumping to 120 later. | ||
|
Crankenstein
Australia150 Posts
| ||
|
Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
On December 25 2010 23:27 Alpina wrote: Yes, I think APM can be limiting factor to become better. Sometimes I know that I need to do ton of things in late game but I am just too slow to do all that fast. Thats generaly problem, most people think APM is limiting factor, but thats hardly the case. Your slowness in late game is not product of your small apm, but rather of your low skill level. U are probably forgetting to build additional rax, get supply blocked, forgetting to produce workers, army, and there is one moment where u think - "O shit I need more units! O crap, i am supply blocked also, faster, faster, damn. I am too slow! I need bigger APM." | ||
|
carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
| ||
|
BEWT
United States7 Posts
On December 26 2010 01:47 carloselcoco wrote: I do this at the beginning and for me it is only to make sure that since there is barely anything to be done in the beginning of the game, my APM for the whole game won't be affected in a negative way. Why does it matter if its effected negatively anyway? | ||
|
HudsonK
China172 Posts
| ||
|
ROOTIllusion
United States1060 Posts
| ||
|
gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
On December 25 2010 13:14 bobucles wrote: You do stretches before exercise, right? Pro players spam APM for the same thing. It's done to warm up. Stretching doesnt warm you up, warming up does. | ||
|
cHaNg-sTa
United States1058 Posts
| ||
|
etceteraetcetera
United States38 Posts
| ||
|
chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On December 25 2010 10:44 eth3n wrote: I was a new player to sc2 (super casual scbw) and I also was like wtf is going on. I assume its an artifact of scbw, and I assume at some point people are like "LOOK AT THE APM!" and then everyone started spamming it. But who knows, maybe it gets your prepared to spam like mad later in game. I have heard TLO mock the practice multiple times, so I assume it confers no other advantages (FINGER EXERCISE MFER!!!). Of course for those who actually want to see if their overall APM is steadily improving, to do it throughout the game makes it meaningless (if you only do it in the beginning then you could of course still check your legitimate APM in fights i guess ^_^) From what I've seen, TLO spams quite a bit at the start of games. In Friendday Wednesday he did say it's better to slow down actions so decision making is more clear, but he did mention "slower" is like 150 SC2 APM. | ||
|
Angra
United States2652 Posts
A lot of people do it in general just because they see others do it, but then it becomes habit after awhile and it just happens. Kind of like swapping weapons back and forth for no reason in an FPS. It does keep your hands loose and is a lot easier to play fast later in the game if you're already playing fast at the beginning, though. Slowly getting faster and faster from a dead stop at the beginning just seems awkward to try to do. | ||
|
Miicr0
Netherlands133 Posts
I notice that whenever I don't do this, I start thinking about the game and sometimes even worry myself and get nervous. So this really works to calm me down. But if you do it, don't 'overdo' it. Nobody keeps up 300 Game-APM for 40 minutes, it will just exhaust you. Do what feels right for yourself! | ||
|
Psykologen
Norway16 Posts
| ||
|
Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
| ||
|
Dakk
Sweden572 Posts
| ||
|
Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
well if u feel so,.do it, spam as hard as u can, but be prepared to lose to lower amp players. U can also try hitting your bedroom wall with your head, because it will have the same impact on your game as spamming. | ||
|
synapse
China13814 Posts
| ||
|
0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
I suggest you start right away | ||
|
Ayrie
United States213 Posts
As others have noted, it is simply a warm-up exercise after all. Of course, there are those who simply spam for the sake of spam, and in their case they have alot of wasted actions that should be spent thinking about how to efficiently use their APM potential instead of right clicking one group around fifty times to nudge it into position. APM =/= skill, it is instead an insight into the player's mechanical ceiling. | ||
|
Jayrod
1820 Posts
Beyond ~120 maybe, the actions themselves are not important, but the rhythmic nature of spamming is and it will keep your calm, clearheaded, and able to focus your brain on the right response rather than wasting brain power on the 'day to day' stuff | ||
|
Communism
United States176 Posts
Edit : He also said that in order to compete on a pro level, the lowest APM you could have that wouldnt necessarily affect your game with great decision making is ~130 | ||
|
AmBroSiaJr
United States7 Posts
On December 25 2010 13:14 bobucles wrote: You do stretches before exercise, right? Pro players spam APM for the same thing. It's done to warm up. Has nothing to do with keeping fingers "warm". That's HUGE myth that TL.net community belives in. If ur fingers are cold, put the heater on. People spam to always know where their fingers are on the keyboard at all time, so you don't have to look down as much (which is a lot different than warming up imo). | ||
|
Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On January 02 2011 15:04 AmBroSiaJr wrote: Wrong, it's to always know where your fingers are on the keyboard at all time, so you don't have to look down as much. Has nothing to do with keeping fingers "warm". If you believe this, like many people do, you're really gullible. First, "warm up" is a figure of speech. Second, in high pressure situations (such as high stakes games) blood vessels constrict, making your fingers seem very cold. Pros talk about it all the time (it was referenced in a day9 daily concerning execution around the early hundreds off the top of my head), so might want to know what your talking about before you post . "Spamming" is a legitimate exercise to assure your mouse settings are where you want them and to gain mouse precision. On the pro levels it seldom has anything to do with just wanting the highest possible apm. | ||
|
b0urne420
Canada112 Posts
| ||
|
LynxKerr
Canada173 Posts
Real talk, ya heard. | ||
|
Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
| ||
|
A.J.
United States209 Posts
| ||
|
Allred
United States352 Posts
| ||
|
sas911
Canada113 Posts
On December 26 2010 05:53 Angra wrote: A lot of people do it in general just because they see others do it, but then it becomes habit after awhile and it just happens. Kind of like swapping weapons back and forth for no reason in an FPS. Umm... Yah that's basically the clean cut answer why. The first and main reason is because of sheer habit, and environment. Pro gamers did it in BW because it helped to get the fingers moving, and for apm. However this was viewed by thousands of people, who did the same in response. So basically what happens is everyone starts doing APM spam at the beginning. Does it really help with our starts? Probably not, most games don't even care if your micro was that good. The FPS example is perfect, because it actually is the exact damn same thing. People might've done it to "warm up", because it also moves their fingers. But I mean, how much does that really do? Just like in SC 2 you have to mainly focus on decision making, FPS is heavily orientated to aiming properly, not click spamming. It just becomes something so many people do, when they see "pro" people doing it, or just a bunch of people in general. It's simply peer pressure, except it's not a bad thing. | ||
|
Tenox
Sweden128 Posts
I like how day9 said it. That it's never bad to have high apm, it's always going to be better to have 200 apm as opposed to 100. Unless you're one of those extreme cases where you get so caught up in the apm spamming itself that it actually starts to become a hindrance to your gameplay, but you're not that guy are you now?:D edit: Also would like to add that it's also a very psychological thing to spam for me atleast, because it gives you the sense that you have more control and gives you more confidence in your execution, and that can never be bad right?:D Probably stating the obvious, lol. | ||
|
Tsabo
Russian Federation266 Posts
| ||
|
DanceSC
United States751 Posts
Those who prefer to build start with a 2 key spam and work their way to 3 key spam / 4 key spam as they add more buildings into the hot keys. Consistency spam is where you hotkey something into each button you will use later, and then spam them in the same order you would use later and at the same pace. When you scout with your worker, you should be looking at your scout 65% of the time, and relying on your hotkey spam to produce workers / base management. The same mindset will carry over to late game when you are in mid battle and find yourself spamming more workers out of your nex/hat/cc or re building your army. 2 reasons why i like the spam: a. its good for warmup / first couple games of the day. b. its a good transition between games = you just get out of a game and want to maintain the gaming mode you were in. | ||
|
Anxiety
United States650 Posts
| ||
|
Zeetee
United States153 Posts
On January 02 2011 15:04 AmBroSiaJr wrote: Has nothing to do with keeping fingers "warm". That's HUGE myth that TL.net community belives in. If ur fingers are cold, put the heater on. People spam to always know where their fingers are on the keyboard at all time, so you don't have to look down as much (which is a lot different than warming up imo). haha man you're taking the phrase "warm up" too literally. as a pianist i equate spamming APM in starcraft to practicing scales/arpeggios in music. the scales themselves aren't "music," but they improve your ability to make music. likewise, the spammed actions themselves don't change your macro/micro, but they improve your ability to macro/micro when you need it. also, probably most importantly... spamming right click move commands to control units movement is incredibly helpful/essential for assisting the sometimes not-so-intelligent pathing AI find the safest/quickest routes. i'm sure everyone already knows this but i haven't seen it mentioned in any of these threads (maybe it was and i'm just restating it, whatever). edit: i should note that i was guilty of excessive QQ spam (weapon switch hotkey) in counter-strike, especially when using the awp. | ||
|
VirtueWeRRa
United States12 Posts
| ||
|
ThomasHobbes
United States197 Posts
I'm sure there are pros who either don't do or just plain don't need to, but there are just as many (if not more) who swear by it. Short -> If it helps you, do it, if it doesn't, don't. | ||
|
Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
On December 26 2010 05:00 gr8ape wrote: Stretching doesnt warm you up, warming up does. Yeah, I was thinking about that comment. Stretching is what you do afterwards, right? To loosen up the muscles after the workout and reduce the pain you get the day after? | ||
|
MaxSC
Peru43 Posts
| ||
|
udgnim
United States8024 Posts
I'm also of the mindset that APM increase is more of a mental barrier than a physical barrier. basically, I want my thought process in-game to be "I should do this and this and this, then this and this and this" and avoid my thought process from ever pausing and asking "what should I do next?" | ||
|
danielsan
Romania399 Posts
It not how fast you click, it's how fast you think and how creative you are. Simple fact that some top diamonds average less than 100 is a hard argument. Pros might need it, self imposing a rhythm. 99% of 342525 apm arent pros, just monkeys. | ||
|
HTODethklok
United States221 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBitterTV#p/c/98A5A6F392415405/5/uR7cEpdSRq8 | ||
|
thesauceishot
Canada333 Posts
Making your hands active in the early stages of the game can really set the tone for the rest of the game. It almost helps you carry over momentum from the last game to keep you active and not super relaxed. To all of the people saying that APM spamming is pointless and it doesn't help at all: just do you, and I'll do me. I'm sure some people APM spam as insanely fast as they can just for the sake of having a high APM.. but why do people really give a fuck? When people spam for the sake of spamming, it gets to the point where they're not actually trying to simulate in-game motions. In short, it helps maintain tempo throughout the entire game, from game to game. | ||
|
OrangeNinja21
United States84 Posts
As both a piano and guitar player though, I think that seemingly random and useless hand movements such as APM spamming is akin to doing scales on an instrument. Over time, the spam will definitely strengthen your hands to the point where execution becomes pure muscle memory, and every advantage counts during an SC2 game. | ||
|
Lythox
Netherlands161 Posts
On January 02 2011 17:36 Aldehyde wrote: Yeah, I was thinking about that comment. Stretching is what you do afterwards, right? To loosen up the muscles after the workout and reduce the pain you get the day after? I guess you guys have no experience with sports whatsoever.. Stretching is indeed to reduce muscle pain etc, but you do it before the excercising, and it does fall under the category of warming up. (If you don't stretch muscles before heavy excercise you might damage them even.) Though I think the pianist's example is better. APM spam just gets you to focus and play fast. Maybe it doesn't work for all people but for some people it certainly does. | ||
|
danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On January 02 2011 19:47 OrangeNinja21 wrote: As both a piano and guitar player though, I think that seemingly random and useless hand movements such as APM spamming is akin to doing scales on an instrument. Over time, the spam will definitely strengthen your hands to the point where execution becomes pure muscle memory, and every advantage counts during an SC2 game. ive no experience on playing musical instruments but i was always under the impression musicians repeat certain sequences, not randomly pinching strings | ||
|
Savant
United States379 Posts
| ||
|
sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
Nevertheless the uttermost important aspect: I don't "focus" on the spamming, it's quite the opposite, I would have to focus "not" to follow my usual pattern of switching through groups. On a sidenote: If you don't stretch muscles before heavy excercise you might damage them even. I do triathlon and stretching before heavy excercise has to be done really carefully because you reduce the muscle "tonus" you need for getting the most out of your body. "Static" stretching has nothing to do with warming up, it's for "relaxing" the muscle - exactly the opposite you need before training sessions, you want to get the muscle active. | ||
|
Veasel
Sweden159 Posts
| ||
|
mookku
Finland39 Posts
Not sure if it does anything specifically, I often notice that I'm as distracted whether I spam or not, missing drone timings for like 10 minerals and so on, so it doesn't seem to give me an edge in anyway - I just do it cause, why not, right? Analyzing this further might go on a bit over-analytic side in my opinion, just let people spam and make your own decisions based on how you feel it affects you. EDIT: Minor grammar issues. | ||
|
Rouel
Sweden138 Posts
A problem I'm working on is warping in a unit, sending it towards the combat and commandgrouping them after- not before. Much harder than my usual gathering up the Terran rally stream and I dare say somewhat counterintuitive. Spamming these commandkeys in the beginning of the game really helps. I forget to spam rather often and I notice that my couple first warp ins and commandgrouping are clumsy. So spamming when nothing is happening has helped me get going in the game to warp-in stuff smoothly and move a diverse group of units across the map (1a2a3a4a5a as fast as I can leftclick). | ||
|
vict1019
United States401 Posts
| ||
|
Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
On January 02 2011 20:05 Lythox wrote: I guess you guys have no experience with sports whatsoever.. Stretching is indeed to reduce muscle pain etc, but you do it before the excercising, and it does fall under the category of warming up. (If you don't stretch muscles before heavy excercise you might damage them even.) Okay, so I googled it. Seems like there are different ways to go about it. Some techniques are used prior to the session and some afterwards. It depends on what kind of excercise it is. Interesting fact, according to wiki, is that it in some cases is bad to stretch. Source Static stretching being after a workout, active being prior or during. | ||
|
DestroManiak
257 Posts
If you want to "warm up" you should try clicking on moving workers rapidly in an order (leftmost then rightmost, second leftmost then second rightmost etc. you can have any sequence) so that your hand eye coordination would improve etc. This would make you use your mouse better in the game in my opinion | ||
|
Megaman
United States19 Posts
Also, the term spam has a negative connotation already, meaning a fruitless activity, so this thread question is biased from the start. | ||
|
SCdinner
Canada516 Posts
| ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Anyways, this has been asked and answered a dozen times before. Please use search before making new threads. | ||
| ||
