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On November 09 2010 06:31 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:29 SilverPotato wrote:On November 09 2010 06:23 GenoZStriker wrote:On November 09 2010 06:20 SilverPotato wrote:On November 09 2010 06:17 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Sir,
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time. I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing. Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Respectfully yours And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me." Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2. I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. As long as they are not doing drugs or get way drunk till the point where they start kissing random people and have public sex, they are safe. Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US. So if you were one of these companies trying to get people to buy your product, would you rather sponsor the person who shows up to each event on time, has a good standing with the audience, is friendly and practices as they should, or some drunk kid who just so happens to be good at the game? I mean, surely you actually want to sell your product. The one who wins more and/or draws a bigger crowd. Idra's got a pretty respectable fanbase mostly due to BM/winrate.
A little in game QQ is far different from acting out on a live stream which thousands of people watch.
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On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote:
imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
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Tell that to SteelSeries. O WAIT! No....... JINX must love drunk players then.
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oh yeah just wanted to say
if next after party djWheat decides not to give us 2 hours of interviews/content with players we otherwise would not have seen or heard from in a casual environment, I will really hate the OP and haters.
Please do another one of these at the next MLG and give a shout out to the OP in this thread.
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On November 09 2010 06:31 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:04 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming. Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc. There's a correlation between maturity and success.
Huk has raged at iCCup staff live on their stream before. Day9 is not exactly the pinnacle of maturity in his daily. DjWheat curses pretty damn often on his show. Incontrol gets in arguments all the time with strangers online and talks about them on Sotg. And yet, they're all incredibly popular.
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I'd love to see E-Sports grow, but why does it need to grow into the spitting image of other sports? E-sports are still growing and finding their way, and i'm fairly confident that the scene can grow and prosper while retaining its personality.
Would you find a stream like this in regards to another sporting event? No, of course not. However it's one of the reasons I appreciate the starcraft community so much.
Uniqueness is often feared and questioned.
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On November 09 2010 06:35 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote:
imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground. I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool. But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
Yet you still watched it after the interviews knowing what was going on in the background. Take some personal responsibility old man. If I don't like something I see on a stream I close it.
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Well for eSports to grow we need a betting scandal like what happened in Korea and have players go to jail for it. Jinro said he will be the first one involved in it 
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I'm actually curious about this now that I think about it.
Poll: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (35) 65% Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (15) 28% Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (2) 4% Other (Specify) (2) 4% 54 total votes Your vote: What direction would you prefer eSports to go? (Vote): Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..)
(Vote): Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL)
(Vote): Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style)
(Vote): Other (Specify)
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Calgary25963 Posts
On November 09 2010 06:35 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote:
imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground. I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool. But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
And yet your email has "superpooper" in it, so please try to explain that one.
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On November 09 2010 06:34 retro-noob wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:28 Offhand wrote:On November 09 2010 06:26 retro-noob wrote:
I'm not worried. I'm interested; I'd like to see people like Tyler and Day[9] and DJ Wheat have long and lucrative careers riding a wave of insane growth of esports. If you don't care about that, why are you in this thread?
Day9's not afraid to let the "bad words" fly on his daily. Maybe we should write an open letter for that too. That depends on his goals, doesn't it? If he wants more young kids toning it, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll watch it either way, but I won't recommend it to my youngest brother as it is now. Reasonable people offer opinions in a polite way in case it might be helpful or interesting. There's usually nothing wrong with that.
You do realize you could apply literally the same argument to LiveOn3? You do realize things might get said on a LIVE cast that you could disagree with?
On November 09 2010 06:33 Krigwin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:26 Offhand wrote:
Seeing as you want to write me off as some bro then actually validate your argument, I'm going to assume most of the anger over this is some kind of Freudian hate of all those cool party kids you never got to hang out with. Tell me about your mother.
Nobody sane wants to see video games become "professional". Popular? Sure. But professional video gaming is a cause I can really only see people getting behind that don't get out much You're just derailing the thread at this point with your strawcastles that have something to do with nerds being jealous of the "cool" party gods or whatever other nonsense and it pains me to participate in this, but how on earth did you work "professional" into a negative adjective? Since we're all about using ad hominem attacks here to substantiate straw man arguments that don't even address the main point of the thread, what exactly do you do for a living? What is your career?
Engineering management. Professionalism is about being dry, non-confrontational, and generally as emotionless as possible. If you've ever worked an office job, you can see how awful it is.
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On November 09 2010 06:36 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:35 Defacer wrote:On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote:
imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground. I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool. But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo.... Yet you still watched it after the interviews knowing what was going on in the background. Take some personal responsibility old man.
personal responsibility?
Being easily offended, watching an after party stream, and then writing about you where offended over a very tame thing? Shocking.
MLG ruining nony's run against Pain user, 2 hours of downtime due to no lan, and extended series? no big deal.
If esports needs to grow we need bland personalities, horrible rules, and extreme downtimes when the internet goes bad.
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On November 09 2010 06:38 LegendaryZ wrote:I'm actually curious about this now that I think about it. Poll: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (35) 65% Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (15) 28% Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (2) 4% Other (Specify) (2) 4% 54 total votes Your vote: What direction would you prefer eSports to go? (Vote): Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..)
(Vote): Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL)
(Vote): Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style)
(Vote): Other (Specify)
A bit unfair to say MLG is not serious. This cast had nothing to do with MLG and they are a strong force in eSports outside of Korea. Same with ESL.
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OP has some valid concerns. The cast was great, I'd love to see these types of casts from future events(just like the OP) but it is something to think about and be aware of, especially when the scene is expanding.
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On November 09 2010 06:38 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:35 Defacer wrote:On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote:
imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground. I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool. But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo.... And yet your email has "superpooper" in it, so please try to explain that one.
Hahaha, +1
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On November 09 2010 06:39 GenoZStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:38 LegendaryZ wrote:I'm actually curious about this now that I think about it. Poll: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (35) 65% Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (15) 28% Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (2) 4% Other (Specify) (2) 4% 54 total votes Your vote: What direction would you prefer eSports to go? (Vote): Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..)
(Vote): Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL)
(Vote): Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style)
(Vote): Other (Specify)
A bit unfair to say MLG is not serious. This cast had nothing to do with MLG and they are a strong force in eSports outside of Korea. Same with ESL.
He means MLG is not serious when compared to some of the much more highly professional(and expensive) productions in Korea like OSL.
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On November 09 2010 06:36 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:31 Defacer wrote:On November 09 2010 06:04 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming. Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc. There's a correlation between maturity and success. Huk has raged at iCCup staff live on their stream before. Day9 is not exactly the pinnacle of maturity in his daily. DjWheat curses pretty damn often on his show. Incontrol gets in arguments all the time with strangers online and talks about them on Sotg. And yet, they're all incredibly popular.
Being popular and successful are two different things.
That's Day9 onstage with Dustin Browder and being groom by Blizzcon.
That's Day9 being referenced in the Economist.
That's Tyler being interviewed by NPR and outlasting Huk and MLG.
That's JP working full-time for MLG.
It depends if these players want to crack jokes and appease the fanboys, or have a long career in the e-sports/ gaming industry.
Day9 is way more mature than you're giving him credit for, by the way. He knows what he can get away with, and rarely talks shit about anyone.
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It seems the livid overreaction to the concerns expressed in the OP are mostly out of proportion and veering off topic. What fans the flames of conformism more? Why will a repeat of this likely not happen? Because it turned into a shitstorm in a tea cup. Who is yelling loudest?
If you think people should have fun and not worry about it, why are you here posting all worried about it?
The OP is a list of practical comments. The rest of the thread is mostly indignation. And so it goes...
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On November 09 2010 06:39 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:36 Baarn wrote:On November 09 2010 06:35 Defacer wrote:On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote:
imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground. I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool. But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo.... Yet you still watched it after the interviews knowing what was going on in the background. Take some personal responsibility old man. personal responsibility? Being easily offended, watching an after party stream, and then writing about you where offended over a very tame thing? Shocking. MLG ruining nony's run against Pain user, 2 hours of downtime due to no lan, and extended series? no big deal. If esports needs to grow we need bland personalities, horrible rules, and extreme downtimes when the internet goes bad.
All i have to say about all of that is wah. Things didn't turn out how you wanted it to. Do you put this much effort into things you can control in your life?
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On November 09 2010 06:17 fellcrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote:
Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so? It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
What the public expects from a televised sporint event?
Good games.
Good commentators.
Great players.
And also a scandal here and there. Yes - the public wants scandals - there's a reason that we have different media (print & television) which entirely focuses on those scandals.
No one reall actually cares about scandals - they make the sport / players more interesting. As Jason Lee put it in the GSL "Every sport needs the bad boys".
Look at Frank Ribery. A professional football (soccer for you Americans^^) player who even had sex with a minor (!!!). Afaik the lawsuit is still running, but he is still playing for his team. The sponsors also didnt kick him out.
To get esports becoming a legitimate sport? Going out to parties, getting drunk, and spread the word & love to the uninformed among us
We're nowhere on a level that those "drunk party streams" matter. We have more important things to do as a community
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EPT
