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On November 09 2010 06:43 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:36 Rokk wrote:On November 09 2010 06:31 Defacer wrote:On November 09 2010 06:04 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming. Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc. There's a correlation between maturity and success. Huk has raged at iCCup staff live on their stream before. Day9 is not exactly the pinnacle of maturity in his daily. DjWheat curses pretty damn often on his show. Incontrol gets in arguments all the time with strangers online and talks about them on Sotg. And yet, they're all incredibly popular. Being popular and successful are two different things. That's Day9 onstage with Dustin Browder and being groom by Blizzcon. That's Day9 being referenced in the Economist. That's Tyler being interviewed by NPR and outlasting Huk and MLG. That's JP working full-time for MLG. It depends if these players want to crack jokes and appease the fanboys, or have a long career in the e-sports/ gaming industry.
False dichotomy. The e-sport/gaming industry is aimed at gamers. Gamers aren't going to turn away from e-sports because people make crude jokes in unofficial venues.
Officially, people need to watch what they say. And for the most part, they do.
The gaming culture is not afraid of obscenity. Blizzard developers say "shit" and "fuck" on panels very happily (but not on the official forums). Penny Arcade and PAX are built on 50% gaming and 50% dick jokes.
Even outside the gaming world, lots of people making a handsome living in the entertainment industry while being extremely vulgar. Bob Saget still gets work typecast as an upstanding family man type, even though he's well known in comedy circles as the guy who tells the absolute nastiest, most disturbing version of The Aristocrats ever.
The idea that esports needs to pander to a prudish, morally upright demographic is just ridiculous.
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LO3 is an unsponsered (as far as I know) show, in which they don't have to appease anyone but their audience. They put their professional game face on when they are at work, which is a representation of their character in the work environment, which they do during any broadcast show that is being sponsored, but when they had been broadcasting for 30+ hours over the last 3 days, why wouldn't they want to let off some steam and shoot shit with people who have been under pressure for the tourney and just wanna relax and enjoy each other's company for a while?
This thread has too much fluff.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
yeah djwheat, be careful what you say man, you might ruin esports for everyone!!!!
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On November 09 2010 06:52 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:47 jacclark wrote:On November 09 2010 06:17 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours Sir, The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school. For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to: "The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians." As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession. While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors. Please allow me to share a personal experience: My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week. When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year. I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us. Wishing the very best upon everyone. Thank you. Respectfully yours. Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community" It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually. There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly. Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere.
Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
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On November 09 2010 06:47 jacclark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:17 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours Sir, The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school. For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to: "The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians." As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession. While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors. Please allow me to share a personal experience: My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week. When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year. I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us. Wishing the very best upon everyone. Thank you. Respectfully yours.
You are onbnoxiously arrogant and pretentious.
And ofcourse you can be "reprimanded" for playing games on school property and territory. It's a professional environment. If you go home and play games no-one is going to punish you for it. DjWheat casted a party non-related to MLG or any other organisation. It was a glimpse into his personal life.
To make my explanation extra clear for you: he played games at home, not at school.
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*insert troll pic*
User was temp banned for this post.
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Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
I like to reiterate the fact that you were disciplined because you were using school's property in a manner that they do not like, while DJ wheat was on a private stream and the example I cited is my behavior in my private home.
I do not attend medical college in California, but here is the scope of compliant I've found on the website of medical board of California
"
The Board's staff will review the following types of complaints:
* the quality of care and treatment provided by a physician (e.g., negligence)
* violation of drug laws, misprescribing, or over prescribing
* substance abuse by a physician
* sexual misconduct by a physician
* dishonesty (including filing fraudulent insurance claims)
* practice of medicine by an unlicensed person or persons under the supervision of a physician
"
None of the above pertain to my example (streaming a party in my private residence where moderate amount of alcohol is involved, nor DJ wheat.
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On November 09 2010 06:57 SilverPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:52 dacthehork wrote:On November 09 2010 06:47 jacclark wrote:On November 09 2010 06:17 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours Sir, The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school. For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to: "The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians." As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession. While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors. Please allow me to share a personal experience: My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week. When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year. I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us. Wishing the very best upon everyone. Thank you. Respectfully yours. Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community" It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually. There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly. Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere. Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
That's just my personality bro
I personally care much more about the format, rules, and actual official coverage of events, not what people do on private streams or in interviews/podcasts that "offends" some view of ESPORTS where everyone has to act like a CNN news anchor.
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On November 09 2010 06:34 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I'm not saying this even is what should be done in order to facilitate that change in mindset, but it does raise the issue of how to do it properly.
It's a good thing you said that because I was just about to respond that jokes about rape and blowjobs and girls playing video games is hardly crafting the right image. Other than that, you bring up a good point and I don't really have anything to say other than that I, too, would be interested in seeing a proper debate on the issue.
On November 09 2010 06:39 Offhand wrote:
Engineering management. Professionalism is about being dry, non-confrontational, and generally as emotionless as possible. If you've ever worked an office job, you can see how awful it is.
While I can't honestly say I disagree with what you're saying, you can also say it's also about being agreeable and un-abrasive and not sounding like an immature jackass who can't be trusted to handle something with care. Trying to denigrate professionalism into a purely negative thing is just childish. And you're forgetting the important part here - I too work in an office job - it's that professionalism that allows you to keep that job and make money in the first place, so really, what's more important to you: being able to buy food, or being able to be yourself on the job? Professionalism is just what's necessary, that's just how it is.
If you honestly have that much of a problem with it and think people should take a stand and change the world, and I honestly cannot not sympathize with that cause, all I can say is good luck, man.
On November 09 2010 06:45 dacthehork wrote:
you do know this is the day9 talking about masturbating in an airplane and how tasteless used to masturbate in the same room as him?
Please provide a link to this, this sounds great.
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This is totally ridiculous.
eSports is not taken seriously because "people" think it's a bunch of immature kids? Halo 3 had a fucking 100k first place prize at MLG from a bunch of kids who basically say "IN YOUR FACE BITCH" after every match (and TBH I find it entertaining.) It doesn't matter what "people" think when it brings a huge audience. Where there's viewers there's money and money to be made by sponsors, and THAT is what sponsors care about.
None of them care at all if a blowjob joke offends a few people if thousands still watch it, get your heads out of the clouds.
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On November 09 2010 06:56 Rekrul wrote:
yeah djwheat, be careful what you say man, you might ruin esports for everyone!!!!
The OP had no problem with what DJ wheat was saying. Did you read the whole post?
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Honestly I think showing SC2 personalities partying and even being inappropriate is going to help the scene, not hurt it. The biggest problem is that SC2 players are seen as dorky. Look at the NBA, half the allure of the lifestyle is that the players can go to clubs and party. Watching other people party isn't really my thing, but this isn't a big deal.
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On November 09 2010 06:52 rally_point wrote:
I think it's great that you're voicing your opinion, but just a minor suggestion: if you spell check your letter it'll be much more effective (especially since you're using such a professional tone).
Annalist -> analyst
It was a deliberate misspelling, he didn't want to offend anyone by using the word "anal" in his post.
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How come this thread has 23 pages ? Every post in this thread should be an OP quote with a Picard WTF is this shit© picture >< This debate is surrealist.
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On November 09 2010 07:08 MrCon wrote:
How come this thread has 23 pages ? Every post in this thread should be an OP quote with a Picard WTF is this shit© picture ><
Sorry for the derail but it had to be done. "This faaah and no faaatha!"
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+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On November 09 2010 06:47 jacclark wrote:
[QUOTE]
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
[/QUOTE]
Apparently you treat everything as professional since you are using letter writing in a forum. Not everything has to be professionalized to be successful. If SC2 were to go mainstream casting would be as similar as it was in Blizzcon which is very basic things being mentioned(blizzard specifically told the casters to not go to deep so the casual veiwers can understand whats going on). However as of now SC2 fans are a niche, Jinro only got 6,250 in comparison to a halo team's 100000. I would understand your approach later but as of now its un-needed
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You can't have it both ways. Either you have a more professional atmosphere to promote esports or you have what happened on the stream last night. Teamlquid redesigned the banner because it was putting off potential sponsors. How is having a link to a featured stream where you watch a bunch of drunks make comments which would never fly anywhere but a private party broadcast to 2,000 people a good idea?
It was just a really bad idea to leave the stream going that long.
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On November 09 2010 07:00 Krigwin wrote:
While I can't honestly say I disagree with what you're saying, you can also say it's also about being agreeable and un-abrasive and not sounding like an immature jackass who can't be trusted to handle something with care. Trying to denigrate professionalism into a purely negative thing is just childish. And you're forgetting the important part here - I too work in an office job - it's that professionalism that allows you to keep that job and make money in the first place, so really, what's more important to you: being able to buy food, or being able to be yourself on the job? Professionalism is just what's necessary, that's just how it is.
If you honestly have that much of a problem with it and think people should take a stand and change the world, and I honestly cannot not sympathize with that cause, all I can say is good luck, man.
I've tried to rationalize it in the past. There comes a point where you realize that some people's idea of "letting it all hang out" is wearing jeans on Fridays. Then you have to stop yourself and realize that you're just participating in this madness for a paycheck not because you have any vested interest in the company, people around you, or corporate America in general. People don't get fired or promoted in a professional environment because of the quality of their work. They get fired because they ate the last scone once or promoted because they got buddy-buddy with the right people.
Pro gaming isn't, and hopefully never will be, anything like that. If at any point you see yourself denouncing fun in the name of "advancing esports" then I suggest you stop, re-evaluate what you're doing, and devote that energy to a cause actually worth it (there are plenty).
Honestly, I have no desire to remain in corporate land for the next 40-50 years. I'd much rather get something started where I can work from my own home and do my own thing, like a day trader or something similar.
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On November 09 2010 06:57 SilverPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:52 dacthehork wrote:On November 09 2010 06:47 jacclark wrote:On November 09 2010 06:17 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours Sir, The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school. For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to: "The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians." As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession. While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors. Please allow me to share a personal experience: My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week. When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year. I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us. Wishing the very best upon everyone. Thank you. Respectfully yours. Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community" It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually. There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly. Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere. Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
Are people seriously going to start analyzing & interpreting Artosis quotes to suit their own needs like its biblical scripture?
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On November 08 2010 23:48 Anselm wrote:
Hey guys,
I wanted to take the time to send you a quick message about the impromptu Live on Three last night at the MLG Dallas after party. A quick disclaimer: I am not an avid watcher of your this show. I've seen it once or twice but most of my familiarity with it is through reference when watching djWheat cast sc2 Matches with others. In that respect I hope I am not commenting on something that has been addressed previously. I apologize if I am and go ahead and close the thread.
That being said I want to comment on the etiquette of last night's cast. The majority of the cast was wonderful to watch. I loved your conversations with the player post wins/losses, getting the inside perspective and knowing more of the behind the scenes of the tournament.
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole.
The after party cast is a wonderful place to get all the positive aspects mentioned above, but I think it is imperative that you casters/annalists do not forget that you are the public spotlight of the future of Starcraft 2 in North America. If you want this to succeed as a whole, these two attitudes need to be kept in separate realms, that being personal and professional. Perhaps the after party is not the place to do a cast in the future. Perhaps to find another room that is not directly in contact to party where you can bring the players, team owners and organizers to do the interviews is a better way to bring the scene to the fans. I'm not sure. However, it does concern me that it got out of hand so quickly, especially that it did so on a live cast and the later-viewed VODs.
I do want to thank you all for your hard work. I just do not want to see it undone because of stupid mistakes. If there's anything that can be taken from conventional sports in this situation, it is that people in the public eye are held to a different standard. This may not be fair but it is a reality. Thank you for your time.
Fan and supporter
~Anselm
I think the problem here is not them, but you. You have these superficial ideas about what people should act like when representing something like e-sports, but only because you're a trained monkey that has been handled so gently by the giving hands of corporate television. Those people act like professionals, because the men with the masks at the top tell them to act like that, or they will be fired.
This isn't that world.
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EPT
