I wanted to take the time to send you a quick message about the impromptu Live on Three last night at the MLG Dallas after party. A quick disclaimer: I am not an avid watcher of your this show. I've seen it once or twice but most of my familiarity with it is through reference when watching djWheat cast sc2 Matches with others. In that respect I hope I am not commenting on something that has been addressed previously. I apologize if I am and go ahead and close the thread.
That being said I want to comment on the etiquette of last night's cast. The majority of the cast was wonderful to watch. I loved your conversations with the player post wins/losses, getting the inside perspective and knowing more of the behind the scenes of the tournament.
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole.
The after party cast is a wonderful place to get all the positive aspects mentioned above, but I think it is imperative that you casters/annalists do not forget that you are the public spotlight of the future of Starcraft 2 in North America. If you want this to succeed as a whole, these two attitudes need to be kept in separate realms, that being personal and professional. Perhaps the after party is not the place to do a cast in the future. Perhaps to find another room that is not directly in contact to party where you can bring the players, team owners and organizers to do the interviews is a better way to bring the scene to the fans. I'm not sure. However, it does concern me that it got out of hand so quickly, especially that it did so on a live cast and the later-viewed VODs.
I do want to thank you all for your hard work. I just do not want to see it undone because of stupid mistakes. If there's anything that can be taken from conventional sports in this situation, it is that people in the public eye are held to a different standard. This may not be fair but it is a reality. Thank you for your time.
Did this happen after the JP interview? I turned it off at that point thinking it was over. I don't remember some of the stuff you're talking about. But I was really concentrating on the interviewees at the time trying to hear what they were saying.
You really can't be too upset about a 3-4 hour live cast and interview show held in the middle of a huge party with beer pong being played in the background. Don't you kind of know what you're going to get at that point? How could you be surprised at boisterousness?
On November 08 2010 23:51 kojinshugi wrote: If a non-fanboy actually sat through all two hours of that horrible din I will eat every hat in the entire universe.
They turned on a webcam in the hotel room they were drinking at. It wasn't an official cast by MLG or any other organization.
If you posted a video that DID relate to your job with said profanities and obscenities, what are the odds of you getting fired? He makes a good point. One of the biggest gripes about the e-sports scenes is that people don't take it seriously, "it's not a real job." Let's hold it to the same standards as we would any other job.
Are you kidding me?! Haha. This was a total party version of Live on Three. Slasher usually annoys the crap out of me, but everything was in a super fun party environment last night. Absolutely nothing wrong with what they did. Everyone needs to decompress now and then. Those guys bust their ASSES during those events. Let them relax now and again. Otherwise what do you expect when they tell you they have people playing beer pong in the background!? Hahahah. Damn, I wish I was there!
Your taking there party to seriously It was just for a laugh to turn the webcam on. In there private party they can get as drunk as they want and say what they want.
Why do ppl wanna bitch at ppl having fun and showing us the fun side of esports. You ever think they are all drunk so they might say random things and joke around. lighten up a lil we dont live n a perfect world tho some of the ppl on this site think we do when it comes to esports. Its gettin pretty old.
Correct me if I'm wrong but they weren't getting paid anything for that after party 'cast', but just a fun stream. Therefore, they will just be themselves.
Let's not get all uppity. I think many of us enjoy the tight knit atmosphere of e-sports and the fact that they would let us into their party/celebration was awesome. I enjoyed every minute of it. Let's not act like e-sports is at a point where this is going to get on ESPN and ruin someone's career. I think we should all enjoy the early stages that e-sports is in right now and take advantage of the perks it provides us to be a part of that.
I couldn't agree LESS. Having fun and being personable are fundamental elements to a good SC2 production and I think that guy's behavior was hilarious and entertaining.
That was on their own time for their fans. Kudo's to them. You shouldn't be looking for people to back you on this. They do not have to be professional 24/7, if anything I like that they can be brought down to Earth and looked at like just regular guys.
wow, come on man. we are lucky to be able to listen to these guys in such a candid atmosphere, are you in favor of a world where they hide the truth and sugar coat everything in order to not possibly offend someone? I'm sure not... This is the whole motto of the show (no fluff), which you of course conveniently mention that you're not familiar with the show so I'm not sure that you can ask to have it changed..
I wouldn't say this was exactly a public facing thing. TL is a close knit community and not the public face of MLG or StarCraft 2.
Please please please, Lo3 guys don't take this to heart. Of course there are things that shouldn't be shown to everyone but you guys are well aware of that and nothing shown last night fell into that category. As Scoots said, on Live on Three, "we are all adults here."
Thats the nature of Lo3, "programing without the fluff". They don't censor themselves a lot on the show and letting them speak their minds without the bullshit is why the show can be good sometimes.
What DJWheat was giving people was a back stage pass to the 'afterparty' for MLG.
He wasn't casting a turny, he wasn't booking interviews, though you may be been confused becuase people were actually be interviewed. What he was doing to giving the fans that couldn't be in Dallas a chance to hang with the boys at the afterparty and ask all the question you might if you were there.
That is stright up fucking awesome (insert boob, and or joke lowering the standards of sc community here).
Please take a second to relax and sit back. This wasn't a frat party. It was... guys who just worked there ass of for weeks/months, celebrating the end of a big event (that you're a huge fan of) and DJWheat put a camera in the room.
if you don't want to watch drunk people be drunk... turn it off, but really think about the near unprecidented access you were just given before you complain that someone drunk... acted drunk. Also ... chill out a bit, you don't have be a fat boy jock to enjoy a couple of beers and shoot the shit.
Just to comment on a few things then I'll shut up. I completely and totally love that there are more laid back scenes that are part of Starcraft 2. However, have a laid back atmosphere does not mean that anything goes. There are still lines that can be crossed and I would guess that that line starts somewhere around saying something that could very easily be used in a sexual harassment law suit.
Again, I love the relaxed feel of things like SoTG. I don't watch Live on Three regularly so I don't know how it usually is. Hearing players joke with each other is one thing but again, that does not mean anything and everything that happens in private is okay to post in a cast.
Edit: All I'm talking about is the last minute or two of the cast. Everything up to that point, I thought was awesome. I suspect the cameras were turned off just in time though.
Why people sign their posts :O If you want it to be a letter than send them the PM. They are both in TL.
This wasn't any official MLG afterparty cast and I'm very happy they decided to do this. They were all drinking so didnt that throw you off from the "professional super tight ass cast". They were having fun after a hard weekend so give them a break.
It was a fun cast with a lot of good stuff so stop complaining. I understand your complaints though. I don't like the female gamer jokes too but that wasn't that bad at all. I don't want E-sports to be too serious, It's fine this way.
The only problem I have with that stream is that it freezes after ~26minutes and I cant start it or get past that. I have no problem with poeple drinking and it was not anything official, just for fun. If the casters showed up drunk in the middle of the turneys on the other hand, that would have been bad.
I enjoyed the show a lot. If you don't want to hear swear words and what not, then don't watch shows, where the players and casters show their more private side. Just keep to the official stuff.
You are propably used to getting all the swear words bleeped away or something like that, so welcome to the real world.
It was a fucking after party. It sound like you never been to one because thats how people normally act. My god this wasn't some offical show or something these are just guys wanting to show and talk about esports while having a good time my god.
I can't believe how fucking pretentious you are op. "uh I do believe the etiquette was improper. Blow job jokes have no place in a stream aimed at young adults. Be returning rather soon, I must join my fellow gentlemen for brandy and cigars!"
This is up there on the full retard scale with the viral arguments about logical fallacies and greek loan words.
Wow, everyone here responding to this guys letter cant get through their post without talking about themselves in some fashion... its so fucking easy to read his letter, call him out as saying something he didnt, like "drinking is bad".
The dude has no problem with them having gotten drunk, OK, fine they had a good time, but the fact that they would post their drunkenness does and will turn some people off.
The fact that "you" like posting that "you" like having fun is irrelevant and honestly just sounds like something you should post on facebook for some more attention. Neglecting that e-sports has a reputation to uphold and that the casters for the main events might want to put a little more thought into footie they make public will only be relevant when they've finally put up something they regret having done so.
Woa woa woa. They spent like two hours getting the stream up so we could have a lo3 last night and you can come out and complain about the show? Come on the show was great last night. There were way more interviews than normal and it was entertaining as hell.
In all seriousness, stop being a politically correct baby. Sexual harassment suit lol. Don't ruin the behind the scenes action for the rest of us by acting like a 60 year old feminist writing a letter about being offended.
On November 09 2010 00:16 Aegeis wrote: I agree with the OP, it's cool in all if they get dunk after a event but I don't really want to see it.
Don't watch it? Just a thought. Did someone have a gun to your head?
Whats with people saying things like this? Thats like coming up to you yelling in your ear and not stopping and saying if you dont like it dont listen to it.
Of course fans want to watch after-event shows like this, but it did get out of hand and was pretty awful to watch at some points and kind of hard to hear whats going on with all the noise there. I preferred the SOTG minicasts way more from last event.
Why do people cry so much over others trying to give constructive criticism? I'm sure the LO3 people are happy to hear that people care a lot about their show enough to try to help them become better and keep them from doing things that annoy some of the people who always like their work, so that they can adjust and as many as possible can watch it and enjoy it.
On November 09 2010 00:20 konicki wrote: Wow, everyone here responding to this guys letter cant get through their post without talking about themselves in some fashion... its so fucking easy to read his letter, call him out as saying something he didnt, like "drinking is bad".
The dude has no problem with them having gotten drunk, OK, fine they had a good time, but the fact that they would post their drunkenness does and will turn some people off.
The fact that "you" like posting that "you" like having fun is irrelevant and honestly just sounds like something you should post on facebook for some more attention. Neglecting that e-sports has a reputation to uphold and that the casters for the main events might want to put a little more thought into footie they make public will only be relevant when they've finally put up something they regret having done so.
you're just used to tv anchors pretending that they dont pee poop or have a penis and/or a vagina. Either way this is essentially backstage footage, so anything goes. And there is nothing they can possibly regret putting up- just look at Hilton's or Kardashian's fame.
Unpaid and unofficial or not, if you do something publicly that seems official or related with a main event, it will affect the view of the official event. That is just a general statement without having seen this broadcast.
On November 09 2010 00:16 Aegeis wrote: I agree with the OP, it's cool in all if they get dunk after a event but I don't really want to see it.
Don't watch it? Just a thought. Did someone have a gun to your head?
Whats with people saying things like this? Thats like coming up to you yelling in your ear and not stopping and saying if you dont like it dont listen to it.
This analagy is so bad I can't help but correct it. It's more like someone making a really awesome after show stream with a bunch of your favourite sports stars but you don't like it so you turn it off.
I don't think this post its valid at all. The beauty of Live on Three is that there is no fluff and I honestly think that its nice to have a scope into what is going on after the tournament is done. Also, many people say it got out of hand, but honestly, who are you to judge that?
If you don't like it, just don't watch it. Life is as simple as that. The live on three is not part of the tournament anyway. Please lo3, keep it real.
I think streamers need to remember that it's not just the oldschool players and familiar fans watching. There are a lot of new folks to the scene, and that sort of thing could turn people off. The scene is getting big, and so are expectations.
It didn't bother me personally, since the whole thing had a party atmosphere, but I could see how that kind of attitude could bother folks.
Do you guys think sports and it's stars are as famous as they are by being consistent no-fun prudes? Sorry, guys, some people are jock-y. Deal with the fact that there are going to be loud-mouths stealing the limelight from the nerd-stars you're trying to live through.
Come on all cut the guy some slack, he already said he didn't really watch LO3 and thus doesn't really know djWheat. On casts Wheat is reigns in his comments but on LO3 he pretty much says whatever he wants, Zlasher makes some ridiculous comment and Wheat would go apeshit on him so yeah. Take it from his perspective where Wheat generally comments 'professionally' and this cast wasn't 'professional' on any standard.
So he thinks comments at the end of the cast weren't 'professional' and reduces the likelihood that esports will be taken seriously. This is true, if a bunch of casts were like this where people could say whatever they want on the air there's no way it would be adopted 'mainstream'. I'm pretty sure Wheat had this conversation on his show at some point talking about Team Spooky for SSF4 where there comments are pretty ridiculous. 'Salty' and words of similar and more vulgar nature are thrown about all the time.
Now given that the cast wasn't of professional quality they were just doing it for fun whatever, don't really need to comment on whether or not the cast was proper. Just be happy it was done and it was cool to hear comments from the pros in a casual setting.
Normally I don't watch things like this but that was the best livecast of anything ever. Props to Scoots(for the camera love for the fans), Wheat for being awesome, Slasher for setting up the stream, Day9 for temporarily killing the stream, JP for organizing shit, Inka for calling Cella a racist term then saying absolutely nothing on his entire guest appearance, Incontrol is a beast, Machine had solid insight on zerg strategy, HuK for being smashed and for the lulz, etc etc. OP has got to be a troll, there's so much sex in mainstream media it's ridiculous, as if a BJ is offensive. Get off your high horse.
If you want to talk about the level of professionalism or what they should be saying/doing while on camera, then just compare this to what would happen in the 'real' sports world. If you saw some NBA or NFL superstars doing that, I don't really think it would be a big deal to see this at the afterparty of their own championship. Sure, they may not gain too many mature fans if they acted like partyboys in front of the camera, but I don't think David Stern (NBA commissioner) would really be justified in giving them a slap on the wrist. Was it professional? No, not really. Was it wrong? Again, not really. Was it entertaining? Absolutely. I agree that there may have been a fine line they walked and that it might have been bad if the jokes started getting at little too tasteless or crass, but they didn't.
I can understand the concern but since it was a private cast and had nothing to do with MLG I think it was perfectly fine. If anything I think the one thing esports needs is for people to realize that there is more to the scene then nerdy "kids" playing video games 12 hours a day (this isn't my view but one of the average outsider of course), it's nice to see people having fun at these events.
don't be a stingy nerd. when esports get really big, i bet those that complained about stuff like this will look back fondly on idra calling someone bad or a caster saying fuck, wishing everything wasn't so buttoned down.
On November 09 2010 00:16 Aegeis wrote: I agree with the OP, it's cool in all if they get dunk after a event but I don't really want to see it.
Don't watch it? Just a thought. Did someone have a gun to your head?
Whats with people saying things like this? Thats like coming up to you yelling in your ear and not stopping and saying if you dont like it dont listen to it.
Of course fans want to watch after-event shows like this, but it did get out of hand and was pretty awful to watch at some points and kind of hard to hear whats going on with all the noise there. I preferred the SOTG minicasts way more from last event.
Why do people cry so much over others trying to give constructive criticism? I'm sure the LO3 people are happy to hear that people care a lot about their show enough to try to help them become better and keep them from doing things that annoy some of the people who always like their work, so that they can adjust and as many as possible can watch it and enjoy it.
Here's a tip... if you don't know how to make good analogies, then don't make them.
It's more like running a pigeon over with a car and then going to ballet lessons.
On November 09 2010 00:25 zeru wrote: Whats with people saying things like this? Thats like coming up to you yelling in your ear and not stopping and saying if you dont like it dont listen to it.
No, it's actually not like that at all. In your example, someone is being forcibly yelled at. In the case with this stream, you are not forced to watch it at all - it is your choice to view it.
And to the OP, this Lo3 was an awesome look into these players being themselves, something we don't see often, and I'm sure the majority of this community loved the opportunity to see that. It was also quite clearly not official. Why would you try to make everything formal, taking any fun away from the scene? Why would you let silly, meaningless jokes affect you like that? Seriously, grow up.
I don't understand why so many comments are attacking the OP. His point is very clearly summed up in the 3rd paragraph, saying that the behavior observed in the cast "... is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole." Though it is his opinion is that the situation was "out of hand" and "a stupid mistake", don't overlook the point he was trying to make. Namely, he is expressing his concern for the image that may be place upon progaming as a whole by others who are outside of the scene.
Personally, I don't know that this particular incident (if one would even call it that), will reflect negatively on the progaming scene. But I do think that he raises a good point. It may be something that casters will want to take into consideration in the future.
And like most people said: It wasn't an official cast. It was a few interviews and discussions taking place at a party, a cast for the community. You can hit mute when they talk/joke about adult subjects.
On November 09 2010 00:08 mapthesoul wrote: Esports = no fun allowed.
sums up op's post perfectly.
i hope he is not being serious and i'm only missing the sarcasm. commentators behave like human beings and partying after the event is over? great god how could that happen!
On November 09 2010 00:35 Gonzodamus wrote: I think streamers need to remember that it's not just the oldschool players and familiar fans watching. There are a lot of new folks to the scene, and that sort of thing could turn people off. The scene is getting big, and so are expectations.
It didn't bother me personally, since the whole thing had a party atmosphere, but I could see how that kind of attitude could bother folks.
I'm sure this will make more people watch instead off turning them away.
First off, thank you for bringing up your thoughts in a very well mannered and polite view. I am sure the casters mentioned appreciate your maturity with your veiws and will take it as constructive critisim as opposed to some kid trying to start a flame war. Whether or not people agree with your or not, ALOT of tl(including many of these posters in this very thread) have something to learn about the means in which you presented your veiwpoint. With that said...
I am a bit on the fence about this. Yes I agree that there should be a line between fun and professionalism, and I think as esports and casters get more and more popular, they need to define this line and learn how to use it to their advantage. I should remind people that just because they are are a hotel or even on their free time, they are representatives of our culture.
In professional sports, players have to sign contracts stating that they will represent their league/sport with the utmost respect. Yes they can party, but it has to be within a closed circuit. A prime example is Ben Roethlisburger. Who was not charged of ANY crime, but was caught partying too hardcore and just got caught up in some legal nonsense. And because of this, it tainted his image, the Steelers image, and the image of the NFL. He was suspended for 4 games at the start of this season. Yes, Ben wasn't on the playing field, he was on his own free time, but he still represents his sport.
If e-sports is truly to become a cultural impact, we should respect and use and many aspects in sports as models. The casters mentioned should obviously have their free time to party and to get a bit rowdy, but they should also realize they are on the frontier to making OUR passion a household name.
I can really see both sides. The footage was excellent to watch and a great and entertaining insight into how the players were feeling after such a big event (this is amplified due to the fact that they chose to do this cast for the fans only).
However, i can understand the OP's insinuation that an after party (especially given how the podcast was being done amongst the party) may not necessarily be the best place to cast. It seems a little private. You don't get footage of anything other private after parties for sports and events etc, for good reason.
Still Im not really worried cause i love the cast and hope they continue the awesome work and dedication
Unfortunately i havent seen the LiveOnThree after party show. However, after watching Monty Phyton Flying Circus right before i read this, and therefore reading it with the voice of John Cleese in my head, it gave me a very good laugh.
On November 09 2010 00:51 zeru wrote: Why are the people who the criticism isn't even directed towards getting so upset, even though I'm 100% sure djwheat wont be even a little. Also you people can't even read some constructive criticism without getting all upset and call others bitches and pussies from trying to improve and make things better and more appealing within e-sports in general. Stop being kids please.
The thing is that djwheat could think after this post that he made a mistake when it's just a few dudes not liking this and the majority is okay with it or supports informal streaming.
Its pretty stupid that you think this is how starcraft players actually are 24/7. Don't think that because after a long tournement they go and play beer pong that they dont take it seriously.
This is a huge over-reaction to the OP. He watched and enjoyed the entire stream except for two final minutes that he thought had some inappropriate stuff. Knowing Slasher, I'm sure he DID do or say something stupid.
He personally has no problem with pros having after parties and is grateful for the stream, which was awesome.
But these are NOT bad points to bring up. You want more money/sponsors/attention? Act more professionally. He's not saying "never drink, party, or have fun;" he's saying "If you're going to live-stream while you do those things, it's not a bad idea to be a little more careful."
I tried to watch it, but early into the cast I found it to be a bit to chaotic and not exactly my 'cup of tea'...after about 20 minutes I decided to turn it off, usually I love DJ Wheat, incontrol, day9 with the weapon of choice, state of the game and everything that comes from them. But this setting seemed a little more wild, unstructured and random. I would've probably enjoyed it had I been there and in the party mood drinking with them but since I was at home doing work I found it difficult to follow and enjoy. Glad I didn't make it to the end to hear slashers comments, that cool guy image will remain but still... meh, hope its not true.
Its still nice to have the content for the community but I'm not sure what they were going for with this I can only say it was not for myself.
And like most people said: It wasn't an official cast. It was a few interviews and discussions taking place at a party, a cast for the community. You can hit mute when they talk/joke about adult subjects.
annalist n. One who writes annals; a chronicler.
annals pl.n.
1. A chronological record of the events of successive years. 2. A descriptive account or record; a history: "the short and simple annals of the poor" (Thomas Gray). 3. A periodical journal in which the records and reports of a learned field are compiled.
I'm going to start with the negative of this "letter." I'm not sure how new you are to e-sports, but this "after the party" show was incredibly tame. Football, basketball, X highly-competitive and famous sport, after the party shows entail high-class hookers, getting smashed on Dom Pérignon, and epic-level "recreational" drug use.
Of course, we didn't see the whole picture, but still, I want to reiterate that a bunch of half-drunk nerds (on bud light, or something similar, none the less; lol I'm such a beer snob) who are letting off steam from the competition, and who are possibly the whitest, and most square bunch of people I've ever seen at a party, is just incredibly different from any other "party" atmosphere. Also, addressing your concerns on an Internet forum as an "open letter" sounds really like you have aspergers (no offense), and can only communicate in pixels.
Typical nerd party.
Typical sports after party.
Onto the good, my gentle poster
You, my friend, are witnessing the birth of a million, possibly billion, and "gajillion" dollar industry, right before your eyes. If you thought SC:BW had a market, then you are going to be shitting gold bricks when you realize SC2's market presence, and capability to incur revenue from sporting events, promotional deals, and global market penetration, is only the tip of the iceberg for what it's going to be. Right now it's relatively new, and with Day9 and dJWheat we are getting a true voyeuristic look into the sport.
It's kind of like amateur porn, except they are doing it for no personal gain, so I guess it's more like having obligatory sex with your wife, in the sense that you realize you'll get satisfaction out of it, but she'll be nagging you later on about the dishes; what I meant to say is that these guys aren't getting the "big bucks" to do this, they are doing it because they love it. When the "big money" comes in, things will change, mountains will move, and nerds throughout the globe will become Goliath's of e-sports.
The current state of Starcraft 2 sponsorship and money.
What Starcraft 2 will become in the future; notice the striking resemblance to the Taj Mahal.
That being said, my gentle poster, is that you're witnessing the birth of this game, SC2, you're witnessing the gestation of something incredible, primordial; in it's early stages. When big corporate-level heads take over this game, it's going to get a lot more dull, boring, and sports-like. Casters will have to be dressed to the nines for the events, and they'll have to be essentially, very, very careful of the image they present; to please their protestant, corporate controllers, of course.
A potential new Starcraft 2 corporate leader! Striking resemblance to Al Pacino, I know.
On November 09 2010 00:39 taintmachine wrote: don't be a stingy nerd. when esports get really big, i bet those that complained about stuff like this will look back fondly on idra calling someone bad or a caster saying fuck, wishing everything wasn't so buttoned down.
it already happened with halo, and they still say ridiculous things on those casts. Regardless of what op thinks, it brings in more fans than it loses, because guess what? the audience isn't 50 YEAR OLD WOMEN. Its guys aged 16-34.
On November 09 2010 00:56 zarepath wrote: This is a huge over-reaction to the OP. He watched and enjoyed the entire stream except for two final minutes that he thought had some inappropriate stuff. Knowing Slasher, I'm sure he DID do or say something stupid.
He personally has no problem with pros having after parties and is grateful for the stream, which was awesome.
But these are NOT bad points to bring up. You want more money/sponsors/attention? Act more professionally. He's not saying "never drink, party, or have fun;" he's saying "If you're going to live-stream while you do those things, it's not a bad idea to be a little more careful."
Calm down, folks.
While it's true a lot of people are overreacting, wouldn't you agree that you're still both basically asking "Add more fluff" when one of the main themes of Live on 3 is "No Fluff"
This isn't the first time they've made innuendos like these, it's part of being no fluff and what the viewers of Live on 3 enjoy/expect. Isn't it great that djWHEAT also sets aside time to have an SC2 specific show with some fluff called Weapon of Choice? There's also SotG which provides some fluff with JP being one of the front men for MLG to our community. No need to bring down a crew that do a TONNNN of work just for us.
I'm not a racist and not trying to be a troll or anything but it really surprises me how something like this is always offensive to only US-Americans. Speaking as someone from Europe you guys over there have a very strange perspective on whats OK on media. Showing all kinds of gory violence on any form of broadcast is good, but a few people hanging out and having fun and doing what everybody does when they had a few beers is beyond the line of whats acceptable. I really cant understand that attitude and how you can be bothered so much by this that you made a post about it. Have you never been to a party or had any friends like this? This is such a non-issue to everyone else in the world, i really hope wheat and the other guys dont take your letter to heart and keep the fun and relaxed attitude they are having had so far.
They were aware of the "line" issue (esp the EG manager), which is exactly why the camera stayed focused on the couch at all times. Except for that one pan around the room and all the times it was about to fall off
People are too damned sensitive. They casted from the after-party because clearly there were a lot of people interested in what they had to show and say. It was a fun time and a place to tone down a filters a little bit. Of course people are need to vent after a big weekend like that. If this doesn't appeal to you, don't tune in.
Please get drunk and say inappropriate things after the next MLG during an impromptu cast, it's entertaining. And don't listen to the PC police (who knew that they existed in the form of 20-something male gamers?)
I enjoyed watching the stream, didn't see the stuff at the end that's being talked about, but I didn't watch the entire thing.
If that's the sort of stuff that did happen at the end though, it's pretty bad form. These people are representational of the community, and we'd like to be taken seriously, so those things need to just not happen on camera.
People would be upset and people would be apologizing in any other professional situation, so I pretty much agree with the OP.
It is hard to have an entertaining video of a party without somebody doing something offensive, but that's just the way parties are. Don't film them.
On November 09 2010 00:16 Aegeis wrote: I agree with the OP, it's cool in all if they get dunk after a event but I don't really want to see it.
Don't watch it? Just a thought. Did someone have a gun to your head?
Whats with people saying things like this?
Of course fans want to watch after-event shows like this, but it did get out of hand and was pretty awful to watch at some points and kind of hard to hear whats going on with all the noise there. I preferred the SOTG minicasts way more from last event.
Why do people cry so much over others trying to give constructive criticism? I'm sure the LO3 people are happy to hear that people care a lot about their show enough to try to help them become better and keep them from doing things that annoy some of the people who always like their work, so that they can adjust and as many as possible can watch it and enjoy it.
What the shitcock.
"This was terrible, next time don't have a loud afterparty!".
This was NOT a State of the Game. This was not an "after-event show". This was Wheat casting a live stream from a party he was at.
If you don't want to watch a live stream from a party he was at, don't watch it.
I'm all for professionalism, I actually do object to JP using the word "retard" in an official MLG interview, because that is indeed the public face of esports.
That stream was not the public face of anything or anyone. Absolutely no one who's not a hardcore fan of the scene would ever watch a multiple hour stream of drunk progamers that sounded and looked so damned awful. And if you're a hardcore fan of the scene you're not going to care whether they make off-color remarks by the 4 hour mark.
Personally I enjoyed it, had it playing in the background at work today, refreshing to see a more casual side of a lot of these players/casters/etc.
I can see the OP's point, kinda, but it seems a little excessive and bordering on pretentious. Frankly, I think the after-party cast was the best part of MLG, and hope they do it after all events. Its awesome to see that these guys are ordinary douchebags just like us lol. I thought the blowjob jokes were funny tbh, but maybe the female-gamer aspect was a little over the line. I'm not talking about professionalism though, just general taste. But hell, if she was fine with it, then I don't see a need to white-knight about it.
I have to say that I think Wheat and the crew are the model of professionalism when on the clock (casting). But lets be honest here, the majority of gamers are young men between the ages of 16-30, who find things like screaming FUCK and blowjob jokes humorous (notice I said majority). If anyone doesn't fall into this bracket, they don't necessarily need to watch the unofficial content.
I'm not going to rag on the OP for this, but I think an OPEN LETTER was a little much considering your basis for writing it. This is probably one opinion you could have kept to yourself.
Also, if you're so offended by fellatio jokes, where is your letter-writing campaign about the rampant anal sex innuendo between Day9 and Wheat. During actual games!
Ya I can understand both sides of this argument, my only concern is that lets say one of the key sponsors or future sponsors watched this. It probably wouldn't make the best impression for a sponsor. That's my only concern.
Also, you guys act like you didn't even watch the cast.
Sure it's no-fluff. There's some swearing, the setting is really informal. But at the same time they're conducting interviews and they're trying to hype the e-sports scene.
Remarks that might be construed as sexual harrassment is going to scare away sponsors... which is the reality of making anything go big and mainstream. Which is what they want e-sports to become.
Y'all gotta get your internal decisions coherent and lined up =P Do you want e-sports to remain a fringe indy thing or do you want it to be mainstream, and on TV and huge?
If the latter, then sacrifices need to be made - re: showing the awesome fun side. It's unfortunate, but it's the reality.
On November 09 2010 01:28 Looky wrote: all sports have parties. people go to sports bar and get drunk and watch the game. sure e-sport wont be effected too much by it.
Yeah, but I doubt there's a live stream of the players and commentators drinking together and talking shit after an NBA
I'm not saying the Lo3 stream was bad, I quite enjoyed it. But if someone tuned in and was turned off by the autism stuff or the things that the OP called out, that's a bummer.
To folks saying that this is only watched by hardcore fans - do you really expect that no one new will tune in to see DJ Wheat and Day[9] show after watching DJ Wheat and Day[9] cast all weekend?
The OP isn't saying that the party was inappropriate. He wasn't really saying that what was said was inappropriate. He's saying that broadcasting the party through the official vehicle of Live on Three was walking a tightrope between appropriate and inappropriate.
Like konicki alludes to, while this incident likely was benign, it only takes one incident for there to be a problem. As more sponsors and money come to SC2, all it takes is for one of those sponsors to potentially see one of their teams on one of these videos perhaps taking things too far and then that money disappears.
Same things happen in sports. That's why they try to clamp down as much as possible on the behavior of their players in the public sphere. At least where there are cameras or the team is acting in an official capacity. It's certainly possible that if a sponsor finds something on a stream in poor taste that they could revoke any type of sponsorship they have with a team.
I don't think anything last night was really all that close to that, but it's definitely food for thought for the future.
OP does have a point, for e sports to be taken serious they shouldn't be showing this kinda stuff. It's kind alike face book your real professional in real life , and then you post pics of yourself sitting on a toilet throwing up and holding vodka bottles, with your boss as a friend. You just don't show this kinda stuff to your fans, I dont' want to see ppl i look up to drinking and acting like people I don't like to hang out with or agree with there self destructive nature.
What they do in there private life I just want to be unknown in fear that it may be vulgar and self destructive.
Sports don't grow because the people involved are professional. Look at the rise of the NFL, or more recently, the UFC. Sponsors come to a game because people like watching it. Then, once sponsorship is entrenched and the people invovled have something to lose, things get 'corporate.' Starcraft 2 has not reached that level. Slasher should be the Dana White saying he'll beat the hell out of Tito Ortiz, not the Dana White reprimanding Brock Lesnar for flipping off fans.
Same things happen in sports. That's why they try to clamp down as much as possible on the behavior of their players in the public sphere. At least where there are cameras or the team is acting in an official capacity. It's certainly possible that if a sponsor finds something on a stream in poor taste that they could revoke any type of sponsorship they have with a team..
Exactly! Basketball's a great example. The players tend to wear suits when they're not playing. If I'm not mistaken, injured players even wear suits when sitting on the bench. Keeps things easy, avoids problems and keeps things classy
I'm probably more offended at much of the response than I am at the OP, which was fairly thought-out and well-written. The response from most of the people in the thread has, honestly, only reaffirmed the stereotype of the e-sports scene. It's the kind of thing that makes Joe Lieberman moist in his panties.
The difference between most professional sports and e-sports is that there's enough money involved in the "big four" sports (baseball, football, basketball, and hockey) to warrant handlers that do everything in their power to keep gay jokes and dick jokes out of the media. In e-sports, there's not enough money to warrant the handlers and as a result, the biggest names (who are, effectively, still kids by their age if not their actions) do the dumbest stuff in the most public way possible - by putting it on the internet.
If people do want acceptance of e-sports by the mainstream (because obviously everyone wants the mainstream money), then the disappointing fact is that people are going to have to man up and learn some self control. That's what being a man is - it's not getting plastered and broadcasting it on the internet. Nobody's saying they can't have fun; what needs to be said is that you can't have your cake and eat it too.
heh what I don't understand is that nobody is making you watch it, yet instead of just turning it off you would rather sit there and watch it and make a post bitching about it on the forums. Someone is always trying to take the fun out of it.
Same things happen in sports. That's why they try to clamp down as much as possible on the behavior of their players in the public sphere. At least where there are cameras or the team is acting in an official capacity. It's certainly possible that if a sponsor finds something on a stream in poor taste that they could revoke any type of sponsorship they have with a team..
Exactly! Basketball's a great example. The players tend to wear suits when they're not playing. If I'm not mistaken, injured players even wear suits when sitting on the bench. Keeps things easy, avoids problems and keeps things classy
I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure they have dress codes to follow, mandated by at least the league, and possibly the team(injured players).
This was an issue an allen iverson used to come in with "gangster" clothing. Nowadays, most players don't care at all about the dress code, as they use it as a avenue for popularity.
But yeah the point is still implied, just because you aren't in the default element, doesn't mean your actions don't impact your profession.
dont be so super political correct. they recorded it for us from the party. i LOVED that. its something you almost never see and it was absolutely fucking hilarious in pretty much evryway.
and it saddens me that some people are so butthurt over some drunk joking(never been out eh?) that they complain about this and want to destroy it for others. if you dont like to see whats happening behind those closed doors cause their might be some not so perfectly appropriate speech then fine for you but trying to keep something like that from happening again is just crap.
chill,take it easy and turn stuff of next time if you dont like it instead of opening a thread to complain about it like a bitter lonely 90 year old man ("stupid kids stop having fun! get off my lawn!")
On November 09 2010 00:08 Galleon.frigate wrote: ~Anselm....
Frankly I'm shocked...
What DJWheat was giving people was a back stage pass to the 'afterparty' for MLG.
He wasn't casting a turny, he wasn't booking interviews, though you may be been confused becuase people were actually be interviewed. What he was doing to giving the fans that couldn't be in Dallas a chance to hang with the boys at the afterparty and ask all the question you might if you were there.
That is stright up fucking awesome (insert boob, and or joke lowering the standards of sc community here).
Please take a second to relax and sit back. This wasn't a frat party. It was... guys who just worked there ass of for weeks/months, celebrating the end of a big event (that you're a huge fan of) and DJWheat put a camera in the room.
if you don't want to watch drunk people be drunk... turn it off, but really think about the near unprecidented access you were just given before you complain that someone drunk... acted drunk. Also ... chill out a bit, you don't have be a fat boy jock to enjoy a couple of beers and shoot the shit.
best post ever and exactly my first thought after reading the OP
I think the point of the OP was just to be careful when doing these kind of things on camera. The potential of one incident being completely blown of of proportion is there and it could hurt SC2. Sponsors are very quick to pull money after just one incident (ex. Tiger Woods). I have to say though I really enjoyed the stream.
EDIT: The point isnt if the was offended or not, its if the sponsors could get offended from something crazy happening at one of these events.
Also, I'd like to amend that when the response is always "oh you're just trying to take the fun out of X" then maybe there's a good point to be had in the original criticism. If that's all you can come up with as a defense, then maybe you're on the wrong side of the fence.
And Day9 professes to abstain from alcohol and drugs. This makes him a great role model. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Anselm, I think you're out of line. If you don't like it, don't watch. They're spending their own free time, even when at a party, contributing to the community, giving behind the scenes interviews. They don't owe any of us viewers shit. We owe them. Be thankful instead of complaining.
We should make an appriciation thread for DJwheat slasher and sirscoots for making this video. Giving us, the fans, a feeling of beeing at the afterparty. I really hope they dont read this thread and actually belive what the OP says reflects the community.
So awesome job guys! Keep making stuff like this, much appriciated.
On November 08 2010 23:57 Kraz.Del wrote: There was nothing offensive during the last 10 mins. This thread should be locked.
taking a page out of blizzard's forum policy?
sure MLG employees have responsibility to be professional as to give e-sports more legitimacy. but it doesn't sound like this impromptu thing is a major PR blunder or something.
On November 09 2010 01:15 PackofHighly wrote: OP, you are being far too pedantic here.
I think he is being shallow and pedantic, actually.
No seriously, clearly eSports is an usual beast (I mean, as far as a comparison to physical sport goes here, the nature of the community is very different, in sort of the same way that poker could never be compared to the MLB or NFL), but can you imagine Michael Phelps showing up at a party and doing an interview while hammered?
I love it, personally, but appreciate the direction the OP is coming from about this.
Esports should be aiming for something like XGames to get started.
The one disadvantage of esports over traditional sports is that they require certain mechanics that not everyone can understand.
E.g. For both kinds of games (traditional sports and esports) there are special rules to learn. That's fine. But once you learn the rules to a traditional sport (and even if you don't) what is impressive is the physical performances of the athletes.
This is because everyone has a body and everyone can relate to the relative difficulty of what they are doing.
With SC2 you have to also have general game-play knowledge to know whether something someone did was amazing or mundane. That is the barrier.
So don't worry about any pro getting a Nike sponsorship just yet. Think of them more like Bam Margera and Tony Hawk than Tiger Woods or Shaquille O'Neil.
What bugs me is the view of females in the discussions in general. Some grown up men actually see women as "sex toys" rather than living humans with the equal rights as anyone else, and the e-sport/gaming environment is no different than on any public bar, party or such, especially since the gaming scene is heavily male-dominated (Shown by several researches) to begin with. Before anything can be done by harassing behaviors and offensive statements on streams of any of its kind, the view on females in the society as a whole really need to change.
We're living in a modern world here, not in the Stone Age when men were out hunting and female took care of the childrens. I can really see how it must be hard for a female who's interesting in gaming on a competitive level just imagining how the "after-party" went.
The e-sport scene could take the lead in this society change that needs to occur, seeing as there's actually no physical borders hindering women from competing on the same levels as men. Speaking gaming in general, there are actually girls interested in playing them competitively. But given the platform of today (of what I've read in several researches/questionnaires) they're having a real hard time doing so to the same extent as men.
If you want some organized, no-nonsense discussion go watch The View or something. It was an after party, they were drinking and just having a good time. I enjoyed that a whole ton more the some of the podcasts where they only go over the basics/etc and put no attitude/emotion into it.
If anything it was the most enjoyable thing I've watched because the players were just acting chill and being themselves instead of providing the same old answers to the same old questions everyone always asks them...
Also, if you've never seen Live on 3 before, they're always calling people out and there's a reason it's "progaming without the fluff".
I just got through listening to the end of recorded video. It really didn't seem to be that bad to me, there was a lot of background noise when slasher made the bj comment, and the comment itself wasn't really offensive. His scream was also just a woo for e-sports in general which I definitely don't have a problem with.
I really liked the fact that it was recorded at the afterparty because you got to see all of the players in a more loose environment and it was entertaining to get to here all their comments and listen/see some of the things going on.
On November 09 2010 00:31 Hittegods wrote: Unpaid and unofficial or not, if you do something publicly that seems official or related with a main event, it will affect the view of the official event. That is just a general statement without having seen this broadcast.
This. What happens in the background you can't control and you shouldn't want to control it. But what is said by the hosts on camera is a different story. Talking about giving someone a blowjob although not offending to me in anyway is something I think a hosts of the show shouldn't get himself into while the camera is rolling.
I watched the after-party and the environment going on there doesnt make those finals moments akward or offensive to me in anyway. I assume that if im watching this and they're just on a laid back, easy going attitude then i should go along with it or stop watching.
I understand the fact that at the highest competitive level you're supposed to refrain yourself of going berserk or act wierd just to showoff, and should focus on putting the best performance possible on what you're doing as a player or a caster, but i dont think this is the case since they could clearly decide to just have the after-party for themselves and not stream any of it...but they didnt and imo that was great.
So based on that and on the fact that whoever was watching it was aware of the "ambiance" on that location (beerpong ftw and such) you should just get into the flow and not worry about any crazy stuff going on or just leave it and watch something else.
I think 90% of these posters are saying the same thing.
"i am not offended, I like how it went, keep doing it."
When they should be saying.
"I am not offended, but I can see how others could be, and yes, these casters should be aware that that they COULD offend people, especially those new to the scene."
I watched and modded that stream start to finish, I don't remember any of these "obscenities" that you were talking about. Even if they did, that's their nature, you yourself said you don't often watch LO3, well guess what, its a voluntary production, they're not hired to do it and they're not paid to do it. Last nights show was extra special since it was just a bonus production for the community.
I'd go on and rant about this even more but the original post just really isn't worth my time or breathe.
I'm sorry, but I find this entire thread to be ridiculous. Wheat is one of the most respectable people I know...and I've known him for a long time now. I guarantee he probably doesn't even know/remember what you're even TALKING about in the OP.
These guys tried to have a laid back environment that was at like 10/11pm EST that had nothing to do with the main event cast and put it up on USTREAM for a Live On Three cast that again...has no affiliation with MLG at all and was a party environment. When there are a ton of gamer guys in a room it's not like it turns into a rape party or something. This was a party! Everyone was probably hammered, and who doesn't say some stupid crap when they're drunk.
I back them up 100% in anything they do for E-Sports. I respect the fact that the OP talked about everything in a clear and manner way, but I disagree with everything that was said to the fiber of my being.
It was an afterparty...and compared to the parties I went to in college, incredibly tame.
On November 09 2010 00:08 mapthesoul wrote: Esports = no fun allowed.
Not a lot more needs to be said. I cringe every time I see a thread like this, what is he trying to accomplish? Starcraft 2 is a bloody game, e-sports or not. I started gaming as a kid because I enjoyed it, and playing with a few mates is always fun. People seem to forget that, Starcraft 2 is a game.
Same with criticism for SotG, it's as if people never left their house and forgot that not the whole world revolves around the politically correct garbage they're swimming in.
On November 09 2010 02:09 ZomgTossRush wrote: I think 90% of these posters are saying the same thing.
"i am not offended, I like how it went, keep doing it."
When they should be saying.
"I am not offended, but I can see how others could be, and yes, these casters should be aware that that they COULD offend people, especially those new to the scene."
Let's make no fun at all then and loose the 90% viewers
so 90% vs 10%, what you take ?
Bad PR ... if anything, they are the ones making esports bigger
On November 09 2010 00:02 Stratus wrote: Why do ppl wanna bitch at ppl having fun and showing us the fun side of esports. You ever think they are all drunk so they might say random things and joke around. lighten up a lil we dont live n a perfect world tho some of the ppl on this site think we do when it comes to esports. Its gettin pretty old.
I think the idea is that being drunk is not only disrespectful and pathetic but vulgar and rude. It's not acceptable to be like that simply because you are drunk just like it isn't okay to kill someone while drunk.
It's not an excuse for their actions. In any case, the issue here is that there was no disclaimer on the video IMO. I had a great time watching it and thought it was hilarious, especially IdrA.
I think the post is a little bit of an exaggeration, but i do see where he is coming from and it's important to respect that. Of course, he could of just turned the stream off. But still, no disclaimer to be found and the link was tied to MLG at least through teamliquid.net.
I agree with the OP. I am all for having fun, but being professional is equally as important. I don't mind it. I actually enjoy it a lot, but others outside of e-sports looking to come in may be discouraged by crude behavior.
On November 09 2010 02:32 brotosterone wrote: I agree with the OP. I am all for having fun, but being professional is equally as important. I don't mind it. I actually enjoy it a lot, but others outside of e-sports looking to come in may be discouraged by crude behavior.
The first thing people outside of e-sports tune into won't be a podcast, they'll probably be more interested in watching games.
On November 09 2010 02:32 brotosterone wrote: I agree with the OP. I am all for having fun, but being professional is equally as important. I don't mind it. I actually enjoy it a lot, but others outside of e-sports looking to come in may be discouraged by crude behavior.
The first thing people outside of e-sports tune into won't be a podcast, they'll probably be more interested in watching games.
I just think the overall image of the casters, commentators, etc. is very important in the growth of e-sports.
On November 09 2010 02:09 ZomgTossRush wrote: I think 90% of these posters are saying the same thing.
"i am not offended, I like how it went, keep doing it."
When they should be saying.
"I am not offended, but I can see how others could be, and yes, these casters should be aware that that they COULD offend people, especially those new to the scene."
They ARE aware. That is the reason why they're very PC on air and in general. EVERYTHING anyone does could offend someone else.
They were at a (e)sports party, and that's how it goes: a bunch of guys drinking beer and being dumb. Of course it's going to be racier (rofl) that a usual broadcast. If that's not your cup of tea, don't tune in. It doesn't change the fact that everyone in that room acts professionally during tournaments and broadcast times.
Some people are reacting like djWheat explained fisting to a bunch of 10 year old kids while casting from the MLG desk.
Come on guys, you know if you were in Dallas and were invited to a party with all the liquid guys, day9/djwheat, incontrol etc you'd jump right on it and you'd probably get hammered have a good time and eat pizza. Hell, I know I would.
Another thing you guys don't realize...is that these guys are all good friends. They travel event to event with each other and practice with each other online all the time. Sure, there is the professional aspect of it, but people that want to make sc2 so uptight that the players can't even broadcast themselves having a good time....then this is a community I don't want to be a part of. If you want that, fly over to Korea and chill with Kespa....this is the American e-sports scene...not the Korean...and partying and being awesome is simply a part of our culture. :D
The majority of the cast was wonderful to watch. I loved your conversations with the player post wins/losses, getting the inside perspective and knowing more of the behind the scenes of the tournament.
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address
i.e., He loved 98% of it. 2% of it, he has some criticism on. Seems reasonable enough to me.
Here are your collective responses:
Let's make no fun at all then
You're everything wrong with the sc2 community
Why do people have to pretend not to know how to have fun to appease stuck up people?
This is TL. we all love djWheat, but there's no need to be a rabid hater. Hell, you're probably not even drunk. At least Slasher had an excuse.
Oh, and the people saying things like "LOL WHEAT IS HAMMERED LOL GREG IS HAMMERED!!" need to take another look at the stream. They were tipsy at most....I mean seriously, they were drinking blue moon...if you think they're drinking that to get drunk then I dunno man..
That was the most tame and politically correct party I have ever seen. But yes Americans seem to be prudes, also if you think this will make general population think any worse of the gamer population , you are delusional. Standard view of the gamers is : those guys who have no friends, no social life and play games all the time, so this cast can only change the view for the better, because it basically shows : hey they are not so alien as we thought. I think most people "who see where the OP is coming from" have led a very sheltered life and value form/style over substance too much.
If you think this "unproffesionalism" will hurt e-sports, lol, we have one affair a month with football players getting drunk and partying with hookers, and it is still the most popular sport, people don't care about professionalism that much (I am not saying that everything goes, but as I said this was the most tame party I have ever seen) and sponsors care only about money.
On November 09 2010 02:32 brotosterone wrote: I agree with the OP. I am all for having fun, but being professional is equally as important. I don't mind it. I actually enjoy it a lot, but others outside of e-sports looking to come in may be discouraged by crude behavior.
The first thing people outside of e-sports tune into won't be a podcast, they'll probably be more interested in watching games.
I just think the overall image of the casters, commentators, etc. is very important in the growth of e-sports.
I know I have personally never given a damn about the image of casters or commentators. When I watched a lot of football I didn't check who was going to cast it, I was more concerned with who was playing. The 'growth of e-sports' has bigger concerns than an after-party podcast. Really, do you tune in to <whatever sport you watch> wondering/caring about who will cast/commentate?
How come when Mel Gibson gets drunk and does some crazy stuff no one is like 'give that man a break, he was just venting, can't you see he's drunk and having fun?'
Starcrafters take eSports seriously while outsiders do not take eSports seriously. If the goal is to branch out with eSports and associated brands, doesn't it make sense to comply with standards of professionalism adopted by others?
The webcast is not as harmful as perceived by some, but there's going to be less room for stuff like this in the future. Brands will have to hold their employees accountable for their public statements and their social network use as notoriety and investment increases.
On November 09 2010 01:06 Phos wrote: I'm not a racist and not trying to be a troll or anything but it really surprises me how something like this is always offensive to only US-Americans. Speaking as someone from Europe you guys over there have a very strange perspective on whats OK on media. Showing all kinds of gory violence on any form of broadcast is good, but a few people hanging out and having fun and doing what everybody does when they had a few beers is beyond the line of whats acceptable. I really cant understand that attitude and how you can be bothered so much by this that you made a post about it.
What DJWheat was giving people was a back stage pass to the 'afterparty' for MLG.
This.
I, for one, felt priveleged to be able to access a party full of gaming heros, at a hugely fun tournament across the world from me.
When wheat+co are giving up their time and energy to give some amazing free content, I think you have to be very careful with criticism. If you are a new viewer to LO3 you might not be aware that swearing and alcohol is not a taboo, and you might not be aware that after 3 gruelling days players and 'backstage' participants want to let off some steam, enjoy themselves and savour their last moments together as friends till the next LAN. I really think most behaviour is excusable under these influences of beer and good company - because when it comes down to it, nobody is obliged to share this with the rest of the community - and just by doing so is a blessing.
On November 09 2010 02:32 brotosterone wrote: I agree with the OP. I am all for having fun, but being professional is equally as important. I don't mind it. I actually enjoy it a lot, but others outside of e-sports looking to come in may be discouraged by crude behavior.
An after party has nothing to do with e-sports.
It's like a football team wins the superbowl, and has a party.
Does this party have anything directly to do with football? are they drinking and throwing up all over their fans at the game?
Anselm they were having fun. It's them just having a good time and talking about Starcraft. They aren't trying to be a professional news cast or anything. Chill out dude. If you don't like it don't watch it. Simple as that. Not everything has to be sugar coated.
The casting "etiquette" during times when it matters, like MLG events and the EG tournament that was a few weeks ago, is amazing and I really couldn't ask for anything more. Getting upset because they didn't have "professionalism" during the after party cast is pretty stupid. They went out of their way to do this bonus cast for everyone when they really could have just left the camera off and probably had even more fun than they did. It's like getting upset because some one messed up a line and yelled "Son of a bitch!" in the bonus footage of a DVD.
As a SC2 fan who plays the game for fun, I think the LO3 was alright. It was very casual and it had a lot of swearing but I find it still acceptable in this day and age especially given the context.
However, I do understand where OP and some others is coming from though because yes, sc2 is a game and people have fun when playing game. But, there are people who wants SC2 to be MORE than just a game, for SC2 to be (E)Sports, culture, a respected profession as Tyler said.
In that show, the players were drunk and hammered and there were swear words all over the place and it was less than professional behaviour ( because it was actually a private party) and i can see the pov that by showing the party, it hurts the image of professionalism that many are trying to achieve in Esports.
There is a reason why professional athletes and entertainers don't broadcast their parties and give interviews when they are drunk and hammered.
On November 09 2010 02:42 mcc wrote: That was the most tame and politically correct party I have ever seen. But yes Americans seem to be prudes, also if you think this will make general population think any worse of the gamer population , you are delusional. Standard view of the gamers is : those guys who have no friends, no social life and play games all the time, so this cast can only change the view for the better, because it basically shows : hey they are not so alien as we thought. I think most people "who see where the OP is coming from" have led a very sheltered life and value form/style over substance too much.
If you think this "unproffesionalism" will hurt e-sports, lol, we have one affair a month with football players getting drunk and partying with hookers, and it is still the most popular sport, people don't care about professionalism that much (I am not saying that everything goes, but as I said this was the most tame party I have ever seen) and sponsors care only about money.
So fucking true. This, if anything, should show sponsors that they are not anti social robots who can't be on camera in a social setting.
The majority of the cast was wonderful to watch. I loved your conversations with the player post wins/losses, getting the inside perspective and knowing more of the behind the scenes of the tournament.
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address
i.e., He loved 98% of it. 2% of it, he has some criticism on. Seems reasonable enough to me.
He wrote an entire fucking letter addressing live on 3 because after 3 hours of partying and drinking incontrol made a crude joke; all of which was on an unofficial stream.
Wheat wanted to put on a show for the fans after MLG. It happened to be at a party but everyone was there and it made things easy to get people on the stream for interviews, etc.
The cons: noise was kinda an issue, people getting drunk, and day9 breaking things at the start.
The pros: a chance to see the players in a relaxed environment doing the same shit we all do, hearing their thoughts on the tournament, good discussion on the state of MLG's rules/the actual game, and to be fair it wasn't a SC2 stream it was a general e-sports stream as they took a break and discussed SSF4 for a moment and kept referencing other games.
The stream itself was both a success and it had its faults. Yeah, it's at a party and people got drunk and did stupid shit. It happens, get used to it, it's nothing worse than what's on TV anyway. Scoots even said he wasn't going to focus on the party for obvious reasons. People keep saying "If you don't like it don't watch it" but that's a silly thing to say as it wasn't till the very end where he got offended by Slasher's comments.
Regardless I think expressing your dislike for something someone said while drunk on a stream is quite silly as it was a free thing, no one got paid for it, it had nothing to do with MLG, GSL, Blizzard, etc. It was a bunch of folks from the scene unwinding and enjoying themselves at a party.
On November 09 2010 02:38 Typhon wrote: An open letter to TL posters
Dear TL posters:
The OP had this to say about the cast:
The majority of the cast was wonderful to watch. I loved your conversations with the player post wins/losses, getting the inside perspective and knowing more of the behind the scenes of the tournament.
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address
i.e., He loved 98% of it. 2% of it, he has some criticism on. Seems reasonable enough to me.
He wrote an entire fucking letter addressing live on 3 because after 3 hours of partying and drinking incontrol made a crude joke; all of which was on an unofficial stream.
Doesn't seem reasonable to me.
Seems like I could give you the same exact advice half of the tards coming into this thread are. "Don't read it!"
It was completely reasonable and posts like this are much more useful to their show than shit like yours "ZOMG IT'S SO GOOD NO BASHING KTHX INCONTROL FTW"
They'll be aware of this if nothing else now. There are other issues at hand if you're into watching crude drunkards.
To you guys on stream and everyone involved in MLG, I had a fantastic time, it was everybit as good as a tournament can get, love you guys. Please don't doubt what you are doing is great, it's only beceause it was such a fantastic event that there is so much fuss about it (positive and negative).
This is worse than peoples reaction to state of the game and select.
Oh no blowjobs! I actually have a hard time believing these people actually exist. They must have been raised in a cave or something. There's just no logical way a real person would have a problem with this.
On November 09 2010 02:51 Cynoks wrote: The casting "etiquette" during times when it matters, like MLG events and the EG tournament that was a few weeks ago, is amazing and I really couldn't ask for anything more. Getting upset because they didn't have "professionalism" during the after party cast is pretty stupid. They went out of their way to do this bonus cast for everyone when they really could have just left the camera off and probably had even more fun than they did. It's like getting upset because some one messed up a line and yelled "Son of a bitch!" in the bonus footage of a DVD.
So I guess that leaving the stream on after the matches as if it was a continuation of the broadcast was the source of the matter. A simple sign saying "MLG from here on out resigns its responsibilty for whatever follows" and "The following content may not be suited for all viewers" would've done it imo. We have to think broadly here, for the sake of e-sports future.
EDIT: Ok, apparantly the stream wasnt a continuation of the MLG broadcast at all. Unless DjWheat officially directed people to see the stream after the finals, then I think the situation is a bit hyped up, seeing as it was a private stream rather than anything official. There's a huge difference there.
you're all going off on him for recommending that that unprofessional attitude be kept off-air, but you apparently didn't read all of his post.
it didn't offend him. the OP isn't upset about it. he does, however think that if esports is to become big, there needs to be a professional attitude about it, because there are millions of people who just sit there waiting for reasons to lash out against video games.
i mean, shit. think of it this way. back during the '08 olympics, michael phelps was constantly being televised swimming, but they never televised the parties where he was getting drunk and high. that's because a lot of people are complete pussies that get offended by that stuff.
the OP is absolutely right. if esports is going to become a big thing in america, events like this have to be very serious, professional things. otherwise everyone will go on about how vulgar the casters are, what terrible role models they are, how satanic videogames have made them.
someone could privately live stream their footage of the after party if they really wanted to, but it could still cause controversy.
On November 09 2010 02:51 Cynoks wrote: The casting "etiquette" during times when it matters, like MLG events and the EG tournament that was a few weeks ago, is amazing and I really couldn't ask for anything more. Getting upset because they didn't have "professionalism" during the after party cast is pretty stupid. They went out of their way to do this bonus cast for everyone when they really could have just left the camera off and probably had even more fun than they did. It's like getting upset because some one messed up a line and yelled "Son of a bitch!" in the bonus footage of a DVD.
So I guess that leaving the stream on after the matches as if it was a continuation of the broadcast was the source of the matter. A simple sign saying "MLG from here on out resigns its responsibilty for whatever follows" and "The following content may not be suited for all viewers" would've done it imo. We have to think broadly here, for the sake of e-sports future.
This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
On November 09 2010 02:51 Cynoks wrote: The casting "etiquette" during times when it matters, like MLG events and the EG tournament that was a few weeks ago, is amazing and I really couldn't ask for anything more. Getting upset because they didn't have "professionalism" during the after party cast is pretty stupid. They went out of their way to do this bonus cast for everyone when they really could have just left the camera off and probably had even more fun than they did. It's like getting upset because some one messed up a line and yelled "Son of a bitch!" in the bonus footage of a DVD.
So I guess that leaving the stream on after the matches as if it was a continuation of the broadcast was the source of the matter. A simple sign saying "MLG from here on out resigns its responsibilty for whatever follows" and "The following content may not be suited for all viewers" would've done it imo. We have to think broadly here, for the sake of e-sports future.
Correct me if I'm mistaken but the after party cast wasn't on the MLG stream at all? Wasn't it just a link of a live stream account called "Cat-in-the-box" or something like that? lol
On November 09 2010 02:32 brotosterone wrote: I agree with the OP. I am all for having fun, but being professional is equally as important. I don't mind it. I actually enjoy it a lot, but others outside of e-sports looking to come in may be discouraged by crude behavior.
An after party has nothing to do with e-sports.
It's like a football team wins the superbowl, and has a party.
Does this party have anything directly to do with football? are they drinking and throwing up all over their fans at the game?
On November 09 2010 03:02 universalwill wrote: it didn't offend him. the OP isn't upset about it. he does, however think that if esports is to become big, there needs to be a professional attitude about it, because there are millions of people who just sit there waiting for reasons to lash out against video games.
Well then the TC is asinine, because an after party is NOT ESPORTS. IT'S AN AFTERPARTY.
Every sport that exists can have parties where people drink and say whatever they want, and they do. Football and soccer have MASSIVE ones.
The actual casting of the games and players at tourneys is VERY professional. What they do after is nobodies fucking business, unless they want to share it like wheat did last night.
On November 09 2010 02:38 Typhon wrote: An open letter to TL posters
Dear TL posters:
The OP had this to say about the cast:
The majority of the cast was wonderful to watch. I loved your conversations with the player post wins/losses, getting the inside perspective and knowing more of the behind the scenes of the tournament.
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address
i.e., He loved 98% of it. 2% of it, he has some criticism on. Seems reasonable enough to me.
He wrote an entire fucking letter addressing live on 3 because after 3 hours of partying and drinking incontrol made a crude joke; all of which was on an unofficial stream.
Doesn't seem reasonable to me.
Seems like I could give you the same exact advice half of the tards coming into this thread are. "Don't read it!"
It was completely reasonable and posts like this are much more useful to their show than shit like yours "ZOMG IT'S SO GOOD NO BASHING KTHX INCONTROL FTW"
They'll be aware of this if nothing else now. There are other issues at hand if you're into watching crude drunkards.
How is this useful for their show? All that's going to happen is they're never going to stream an afterparty again because holier-than-thou saints like you and OP will come down on them.
it was a good show last night and i appreciate the effort to share it with the community.
please continue to give us this backstage content and don't let these overly sensitive forum children stop you. there are lots of kids on these forums that dont know how life is outside of their own little world, and will naturally make many dumb comments.
On November 09 2010 03:04 Ygz wrote: This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
If we are to support the growth of e-sports we have to stop acting like drunk idiots. There's a reason alcohol has an age-limit and we shouldn't expose underage viewers to the negative side effects of the potentially lethal drug. The professionalism was lacking and people new to the Starcraft 2/E-sports scene will now associate Starcraft 2 with alcohol.
What parents would want their children to see alcohol in association with their video games? Same with swearing, I heard Incontrol drop the f-bomb several times. When was the last time we heard the f-bomb when watching professional sports? I highly doubt any professional football player ever uttered any profanity on air.
Eh as soon is it started it should have been obvious it wouldn't be a professional deal, or even something that promised some good SC discussion like SotG. It was just a bunch of guys drinking and interviewing some players at an after party, which oddly enough kept me entertained while I got some work done.
That being said there were some legitimately good interviews that anyone interested in the players or just the overall future of SC2 should probably watch. Painuser gave a good interview, incontrol gave a good interview, and NonY and ret gave really good interviews that would have reflected very well on the scene were there not a party going on in the background. Yeah slasher was annoying at the end, but it is what it is. I think it pretty much delivered the goods regardless, and you're probably over-blowing the effect of the etiquette issues, at least for this specifically.
On November 09 2010 03:04 Ygz wrote: This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
If we are to support the growth of e-sports we have to stop acting like drunk idiots. There's a reason alcohol has an age-limit and we shouldn't expose underage viewers to the negative side effects of the potentially lethal drug. The professionalism was lacking and people new to the Starcraft 2/E-sports scene will now associate Starcraft 2 with alcohol.
What parents would want their children to see alcohol in association with their video games? Same with swearing, I heard Incontrol drop the f-bomb several times. When was the last time we heard the f-bomb when watching professional sports? I highly doubt any professional football player ever uttered any profanity on air.
Party != E-sports
This wasn't MLG, this was a USTREAM called cat-in-a-box
MLG casters are the face of legitimate esports in America (other than the players). They represent something larger than themselves (their employer, etc). Accept the responsibility and quit acting like frat brahs *on a live stream*.
If Marv Albert or John Madden dropped a BJ joke or acted like an idiot on camera at a post-NFL game party, they would be terminated. I want esports to be as large as the NFL. I want these dudes to accept that mantle of responsibility and step up.
On November 09 2010 03:14 IPA wrote: Support the OP.
MLG casters are the face of legitimate esports in America (other than the players). They represent something larger than themselves (their employer, etc). Accept the responsibility and quit acting like frat brahs *on a live stream*.
If Marv Albert or John Madden dropped a BJ joke or acted like an idiot on camera at a post-NFL game party, they would be terminated. I want esports to be as large as the NFL. I want these dudes to accept that mantle of responsibility and step up.
Assuming John madden's fan even know what a livestream is
On November 09 2010 03:14 IPA wrote: Support the OP.
MLG casters are the face of legitimate esports in America (other than the players). They represent something larger than themselves (their employer, etc). Accept the responsibility and quit acting like frat brahs *on a live stream*.
If Marv Albert or John Madden dropped a BJ joke or acted like an idiot on camera at a post-NFL game party, they would be terminated. I want esports to be as large as the NFL. I want these dudes to accept that mantle of responsibility and step up.
I love the demands. Do you think John Madden avoids dropping BJ jokes on a livestream because of his professional reputation, contractual obligations, or for the good of football?
Okay, now let's see which of those are analogous to DJWheat's situation... hmm...
On November 09 2010 03:12 Chill wrote: Okay, next time the cameras will be off. Good work guys, you did it.
exactly
they went out of their way to get this up and spent 2+hours doing interviews and such yes it was in a party atmosphere , if you didnt like it TURN YOUR STREAM OFF you dont have to watch, no one is making you . you dont think these guys would rather just be enjoying themselves after 3 hard days work but instead they think of the community first and put this up
props to DJ wheat, Sirscoots and slasher for a really interesting night
On November 09 2010 03:04 Ygz wrote: This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
If we are to support the growth of e-sports we have to stop acting like drunk idiots. There's a reason alcohol has an age-limit and we shouldn't expose underage viewers to the negative side effects of the potentially lethal drug. The professionalism was lacking and people new to the Starcraft 2/E-sports scene will now associate Starcraft 2 with alcohol.
What parents would want their children to see alcohol in association with their video games? Same with swearing, I heard Incontrol drop the f-bomb several times. When was the last time we heard the f-bomb when watching professional sports? I highly doubt any professional football player ever uttered any profanity on air.
this is a dumb post. not everyone in the sc2 community has to be a rolemodel for e-sports. stop worrying about everything being professional and what your mother would say, thats not going to get starcraft 2 in the spotlight any faster.
the growth of e-sports right now is about increasings its fan base, not pleasing critics. so content like the show last night is a great way for fans to see the players in another light.
On November 09 2010 03:04 Ygz wrote: This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
If we are to support the growth of e-sports we have to stop acting like drunk idiots. There's a reason alcohol has an age-limit and we shouldn't expose underage viewers to the negative side effects of the potentially lethal drug. The professionalism was lacking and people new to the Starcraft 2/E-sports scene will now associate Starcraft 2 with alcohol.
What parents would want their children to see alcohol in association with their video games? Same with swearing, I heard Incontrol drop the f-bomb several times. When was the last time we heard the f-bomb when watching professional sports? I highly doubt any professional football player ever uttered any profanity on air.
Party != E-sports
This wasn't MLG, this was a USTREAM called cat-in-a-box
EDIT: What chill said
And here I was thinking my post was exaggerated enough for people to understand it was nothing but satire. Making fun of similar posts, if you will.
A webcam in a hotel room is not a MLG sponsored event nor does it say anything about SC2 eSports. The guys were drinking, having a good time and said some things they probably thought were funny at the time.. Instead of being so critical of something you didnt have to watch, try to lighten up a bit..
Oh, and I really think that both casters are trying to lose the title "professional annalist"
So wait, people had a party and streamed it. Because these people were recently casters of MLG, they were associated with MLG or am I missing something here...
God what's with all the negativity towards frats in here. Is there anyone else here affiliated? It's not all like animal house you know. Fraternities/Sororities are generally the biggest contributers towards charities on campus. Last year the Greek system on my campus raised at least ~$150,000 for various charities... blah.
On November 09 2010 03:04 Ygz wrote: This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
If we are to support the growth of e-sports we have to stop acting like drunk idiots. There's a reason alcohol has an age-limit and we shouldn't expose underage viewers to the negative side effects of the potentially lethal drug. The professionalism was lacking and people new to the Starcraft 2/E-sports scene will now associate Starcraft 2 with alcohol.
What parents would want their children to see alcohol in association with their video games? Same with swearing, I heard Incontrol drop the f-bomb several times. When was the last time we heard the f-bomb when watching professional sports? I highly doubt any professional football player ever uttered any profanity on air.
Party != E-sports
This wasn't MLG, this was a USTREAM called cat-in-a-box
EDIT: What chill said
And here I was thinking my post was exaggerated enough for people to understand it was nothing but satire. Making fun of similar posts, if you will.
Oh damn, I got trolled hard. Kind of expected with the stupidity in this thread, though.
Dear LO3 crew, I was sincerely offended and confused by Slasher's ponytail and Macbook Air. Dj Wheat and SirScoots, please take the appropriate measures to amend these grotesque perversions in the future.
On November 09 2010 03:04 Ygz wrote: This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
If we are to support the growth of e-sports we have to stop acting like drunk idiots. There's a reason alcohol has an age-limit and we shouldn't expose underage viewers to the negative side effects of the potentially lethal drug. The professionalism was lacking and people new to the Starcraft 2/E-sports scene will now associate Starcraft 2 with alcohol.
What parents would want their children to see alcohol in association with their video games? Same with swearing, I heard Incontrol drop the f-bomb several times. When was the last time we heard the f-bomb when watching professional sports? I highly doubt any professional football player ever uttered any profanity on air.
Party != E-sports
This wasn't MLG, this was a USTREAM called cat-in-a-box
EDIT: What chill said
And here I was thinking my post was exaggerated enough for people to understand it was nothing but satire. Making fun of similar posts, if you will.
I thought it was quite epic. For a moment, you almost sounded American.
You know what I see a lot of in this thread. I see a lot of people new to e-sports (joined w/ SC2 and probably don't know anything about the 12 year old e-sport scene) thinking that it is okay to broadcast lewd and belligerent behavior. On the other hand people like the OP approach e-Sports with a certain reverence and respect.
I think that anyone who disagrees with the OP is actually not understanding the point. The point is not that they shouldn't drink, relax, and kick back but that they shouldn't BROADCAST it. No one is saying they shouldn't have a good time but the real question becomes one of image for the scene.
Now I know a lot of people are new to e-sports so I'll put this candidly, please reference the success of Korean E-Sports before you make assertions about Foreign E-Sports. Korean E-Sports presents a very respectable, professional image which is one reason it is able to become so incredibly mainstream (multiple TV channels that cast BW). The players and coaches keep their personal celebrations largely private and though definitely show joy at winning, do not use vulgar language or make sexist remarks.
If you want foreign E-Sports to succeed, then you should probably copy the most successful E-Sports model out there. A good place to start is the 12 year old, mainstream, nationally supported BW scene in Korea.
Again, the main point that the OP and people like myself are trying to make is that you need to make sure the Foreign scene maintains a certain level of professionalism so that critics of it aren't even given the opportunity to pull up obscure, unpublicized clips that could possibly detract from the image. No one has a problem with celebration, happiness, and relaxation, but there is a problem with vulgarity and rudeness.
The OP is oversensitive and draws stupid conclusions, I can't help but to sigh very loudly as I read his post. This was for the fans, this was at a party, this was a casual setting with no association to any companies.. it was just a fun podcast, nothing more.
The livestream didn't feel professional and I doubt that they were going for that at all. It was fun and it was better than nothing, since sotg fizzled out in the end. I kinda understand where the OP is coming from, but this kinda stuff does not cater to the 'casual' viewers. I highly doubt that the 2000+ viewers was a mix of casual and sc2 fans.
They did it for the fans, not to bring in new people.
On November 09 2010 03:04 Ygz wrote: This thread is hilarious. I can't believe people exist who get so riled up over something that is completely asinine. I also noted somewhere in the thread someone mentioned the word "lawsuit" in relation to what got said on the cast, haha!
It was a party. Let me say that again in case that never sunk in, IT WAS A PARTY! Parties generally contain a lot of nonsense, frolics and other monkey antics. Crazy I know!
If we are to support the growth of e-sports we have to stop acting like drunk idiots. There's a reason alcohol has an age-limit and we shouldn't expose underage viewers to the negative side effects of the potentially lethal drug. The professionalism was lacking and people new to the Starcraft 2/E-sports scene will now associate Starcraft 2 with alcohol.
What parents would want their children to see alcohol in association with their video games? Same with swearing, I heard Incontrol drop the f-bomb several times. When was the last time we heard the f-bomb when watching professional sports? I highly doubt any professional football player ever uttered any profanity on air.
...are you kidding me man? Anyone NEW to the starcraft 2/e-sports scene definitely wouldn't have been up at 1am watching a ustream channel called CAT IN A BOX. They probably would have been watching the halo stream on the mlg site and clicked sc2 once or twice to check it out. Do you honestly think they were like "oh lets go on that site teamliquid or whatever" and then click a link to a show called LiveOn3 that they've never even heard of...?
The people watching were the hardcore fans of the scene and thats why they did it. For us. And football players have definitely dropped the f-bomb on air. Just type "f-bomb on football" into youtube and click the first result.
You act like they took the camera and streamed the beer pong competition. They didn't. Scootz even said "we're not gonna show the party, you guys are fucking adults you can find out why." There was even a player that requested to not be on camera(obviously for reasons like you stated) and they respected his wishes.
So why don't you stop spreading this BS and just relax man. We are privileged to have people as awesome as Day[9] and djwheat that do these sort of things for us. Don't ruin it.
On November 09 2010 03:20 FabledIntegral wrote: God what's with all the negativity towards frats in here. Is there anyone else here affiliated? It's not all like animal house you know. Fraternities/Sororities are generally the biggest contributers towards charities on campus. Last year the Greek system on my campus raised at least ~$150,000 for various charities... blah.
Yeah, I'm a vice president of Alpha Sigma Phi at my campus (AT Chapter) and quite frankly i have just given up fighting off that war. It's useless, I can convince someone that not all fraternities are like that then 5 seconds later the word "frat" is being thrown around in reference to crazy drunken glory.
On November 09 2010 03:22 MagnusHyperion wrote: If you want foreign E-Sports to succeed, then you should probably copy the most successful E-Sports model out there. A good place to start is the 12 year old, mainstream, nationally supported BW scene in Korea.
By your logic we should get the Starcraft 'boot camps' here in the west as well. I'm sure e-sports owuld become mainstream once the media hears about 12 year old kids being on a strict schedule forcing them to play Starcraft all day. Yeah, they would've gone voluntarily but do you honestly think parents/media here would care? There might just be an outrage.
You can't compare the West to Korea, because guess what, we aren't Korea.
On November 09 2010 03:14 IPA wrote: Support the OP.
MLG casters are the face of legitimate esports in America (other than the players). They represent something larger than themselves (their employer, etc). Accept the responsibility and quit acting like frat brahs *on a live stream*.
If Marv Albert or John Madden dropped a BJ joke or acted like an idiot on camera at a post-NFL game party, they would be terminated. I want esports to be as large as the NFL. I want these dudes to accept that mantle of responsibility and step up.
I love the demands. Do you think John Madden avoids dropping BJ jokes on a livestream because of his professional reputation, contractual obligations, or for the good of football?
Okay, now let's see which of those are analogous to DJWheat's situation... hmm...
Hahaha. Seriously...how can you even compare the two? It's completely ridiculous. I wish someone would lock the thread. >_<
I was offended that they hosted the Lo3 on a Ustream channel called Cat in a Box. The name is unprofessional and implies that I enjoy watching cats. If someone were to check my history, what am I supposed to say! Do you really want to associate e-sports with cat watching?
On November 09 2010 03:26 KevinIX wrote: I was offended that they hosted the Lo3 on a Ustream channel called Cat in a Box. The name is unprofessional and implies that I enjoy watching cats. If someone were to check my history, what am I supposed to say! Do you really want to associate e-sports with cat watching?
- Fan and Supporter
KevinIX
lmao, what really gets me is when I think about all the people that actually watch that channel that prolly logged on....they were prolly like wtf?
On November 09 2010 03:22 MagnusHyperion wrote: I think that anyone who disagrees with the OP is actually not understanding the point. The point is not that they shouldn't drink, relax, and kick back but that they shouldn't BROADCAST it. No one is saying they shouldn't have a good time but the real question becomes one of image for the scene.
I understand the OP's point clearly and I disagree with it. You are arguing that the broadcast of this party will have a negative effect on the "success of ESports (which by the way, is such a crutch for a bad argument; People demand others do things "for the good of ESports" without even consdering what that means or how we achieve it or what the benefits will be)".
I am saying that the benefits I will receive, several years later, through the "success as ESports", are far, far, FAR less than the happiness I received yesterday by watching these guys on stream.
Sorry guys. We can't have fun anymore. We can't have some drinks. This is SRS BZNS. Lets start dressing in suits and only saying things pre-approved by our managers. Chill the F out lol
On November 09 2010 03:22 MagnusHyperion wrote: You know what I see a lot of in this thread. I see a lot of people new to e-sports (joined w/ SC2 and probably don't know anything about the 12 year old e-sport scene) thinking that it is okay to broadcast lewd and belligerent behavior. On the other hand people like the OP approach e-Sports with a certain reverence and respect.
I think that anyone who disagrees with the OP is actually not understanding the point. The point is not that they shouldn't drink, relax, and kick back but that they shouldn't BROADCAST it. No one is saying they shouldn't have a good time but the real question becomes one of image for the scene.
Now I know a lot of people are new to e-sports so I'll put this candidly, please reference the success of Korean E-Sports before you make assertions about Foreign E-Sports. Korean E-Sports presents a very respectable, professional image which is one reason it is able to become so incredibly mainstream (multiple TV channels that cast BW). The players and coaches keep their personal celebrations largely private and though definitely show joy at winning, do not use vulgar language or make sexist remarks.
If you want foreign E-Sports to succeed, then you should probably copy the most successful E-Sports model out there. A good place to start is the 12 year old, mainstream, nationally supported BW scene in Korea.
Again, the main point that the OP and people like myself are trying to make is that you need to make sure the Foreign scene maintains a certain level of professionalism so that critics of it aren't even given the opportunity to pull up obscure, unpublicized clips that could possibly detract from the image. No one has a problem with celebration, happiness, and relaxation, but there is a problem with vulgarity and rudeness.
Your conclusions run under the failed assumpltions that US is a similar culture to Korea. Which it is not. Just because it works for Korea doesn't mean it will work everywhere.
As for this stream being the face of e-sports? Are you honestly serious? It was a personal stream for fun, if such things offend your sensitive heart, just turn it off. They were doing people who enjoy it when ppl have fun a favor, giving people a bit of a backstage pass to MLG.
You are blowing things way out of proportion to link djWheats party to the "face of esports". I could see where you would be coming from if this was during casting or during the actual tournament. But since it wasn't I just think you are crazy.
Let me go into this saying I'm the type of person who tells jokes involving sex with dead babies as such pretty much nothing offends me. I also enjoyed the show last night. I do however agree with the OP that stuff like last night is walking the line(I mean they even had underage drinking. Probably why they kept the camera locked on the couch lol). While alot of people like myself really don't give a fuck there's alot who do. I think if your going to do shows like that to keep them separate, then again lo3 could always be like that(never watched it, only saw it cause it was in the sotg thread). Regardless though I don't know if its best to film after parties for many reasons as interesting as that show was last night.
Just wanted to lend some support to the cast last night. I sat and watched all of it while playing Minecraft, and it was an excellent way to wind down from the tournament and gain more perspective into just what it is we are watching and why these people are devoting their lives to the game. It was candid and I enjoyed seeing everyone opening up and just talking. I'm a huge fan of State of the Game for that same reason.
I like to hear the people I watch talk. I want to know how they are feeling about LAN and Tyler's tribulations. I was glad to hear Select and Machine actually practice together, a fact the Live Report thread would have you believe to be bullshit. I want to know more about the people involved. I don't want to hear them pandering to Blizzard and censoring themselves. I don't want to rely on second hand information. If the people involved want to talk, I am going to listen. This wasn't an MLG stream. The only way to find Cat-In-A-Box was to be looking for the announcement from the party goers themselves, it was not officially sanctioned. Their attitude and conduct was 100% correct and I am very thankful for the access they felt the need to give me. Super fucking thankful. Seriously. Thanks guys, keep being awesome.
Couldn't agree more with Chill and the others. I understand and respect the OPs right to give an opinion but the facts break down like this:
-The show was for the hardcore fans of the SC2 scene. -No potential new fans for e-sports would have been up at 1am watching Cat-In-A-Box on uStream. -It was an afterparty with alcohol and free speaking without any rules.
As a person who loves SC and the community in general but is likely never to be as close with the top players and their scene I really appreciated the chance to see what it was like after MLG and share in the experience of this party even if it was over the internet from far away.
The thought that attitudes like the OPs might make Wheat and the rest less inclined to invite the hardcore fans who appreciate this type of exposure really disappoints me.
We have a community that shares the experiences with almost all who are interested and it never fails that someone will be offended and they eventually stop doing it because of all the hassle from the people it offends.
Also, why do the casters and the players, that actually make this e-sport a reality, have to be the martyrs here? Shut-in nerds will cast them down for their 'sins' under the pretense of blasphemy against the glory of E-SPORTS. If you were the player, you'd go to a party too. The only reason they can spend their life playing videogames is because WE, AS FANS, watch this. If we weren't here the sponsors wouldn't pay them. Is it not acceptable that they give back to the community?
Imo, just put a viewer discretion is advised disclaimer at the beginning of the broadcast like on any regular TV show that drops the f bomb.
But regarding the event, I think it probably would actually increase eSport popularity if you showed this to your friends because it lets them see that people who play Starcraft can be cool and not nerds. (not my opinion, just my belief in what the public perception of progamers is)
Well, im sure they are all hung over right now and the last they want to do when they wakeup is see something negative. I think it was great. We got to see an afterparty of a big tourney.. i enjoyed it much more then the other LO3s so this was great ;0
So let me get this straight: you listened to over two hours of a livestream taking place at a party among friends and you're shocked and appalled that someone made a blowjob joke? Seriously?
This was not an official podcast. This was a guy turning a camera on so the fans could enjoy part of an afterparty. If you don't understand how the tone will differ between those two then you have more important things to worry about.
Honestly, if the OP's post represents the majority of opinion in any way, then I'm not sure I even want Starcraft2 to become a mainstream sport.
People are... obsessed with getting the game out there and onto television. To the point where posts like this crop up, rebuking members of the SC2 community for HAVING A PARTY. Where is your foresight? You must know the biggest barrier right now to e-sports being widely accepted is still the whole "nerd" image.. and anything that breaks down that image, say, a podcast showing prominent members of the community realxing and having a good time after a tournament in the same way anyone else would is actually going to help things if anything.
And consider this for a moment. Say tomorrow a huge TV station approached blizzard and asked for tv rights to cover SC2 tournaments. The only catch is that they'd seen a podcast of some caster drunk, and felt that it was unproffesional, therefore they were going to find their own commentators, guys in suits in their 40's similar to every other sports cast out there, guys who'd never played the game, but had never been drunk on a camera before.
On November 09 2010 03:22 MagnusHyperion wrote: I think that anyone who disagrees with the OP is actually not understanding the point. The point is not that they shouldn't drink, relax, and kick back but that they shouldn't BROADCAST it. No one is saying they shouldn't have a good time but the real question becomes one of image for the scene.
I understand the OP's point clearly and I disagree with it. You are arguing that the broadcast of this party will have a negative effect on the "success of ESports (which by the way, is such a crutch for a bad argument; People demand others do things "for the good of ESports" without even consdering what that means or how we achieve it or what the benefits will be)".
I am saying that the benefits I will receive, several years later, through the "success as ESports", are far, far, FAR less than the happiness I received yesterday by watching these guys on stream.
People also don't realize that "eSports" will never grow if it isn't fun. Sports doesn't stay alive because of the top. It stays alive because of every level of play. Why would people want to be apart of some super serious 24/7 thing?
i'm sorry but i have to say that this isn't PBS and we aren't watching mr. rogers or sesame street. when you found out about this sudden stream i'm sure you also found out it was happening at a party...need i say more.
Have you guys followed any other "real" sports? Name one successful sport that doesn't have unprofessional behavior going on all the time? And it's not just the players. Ever heard of an organization called the UFC? Joe Rogan gets baked and acts unprofessionally every chance he gets. Dana White isn't exactly the model of professionalism himself. Yet MMA is growing in popularity at a crazy rate.
The success of SC2 will depend on how the game will hold up, and how entertaining it is to watch for people. It will depend on how good the infrastructure is (bnet 2.0 lol). If you provide good games and good casting on the air, what you do outside the tournament isn't gonna make people less interested in watching the games or recommending them to friends. If the games are bad, full of technical issues, and have horrible casting, then no amount of politeness or professionalism outside the tourney will save it.
I will go as far as to say the success of esports doesn't depend AT ALL on the behavior of those involved when outside the event. As long as they remain professional during the broadcast, then the games (which is pretty much all casual fans will care about, and most of what hardcore fans care about) will be enjoyable.
I absolutely disagree with the OP. If anything I think the streaming of the afterparty was beneficial to E-sports.
Getting to know your favorite player while they are in a relaxed environment humanizes them and makes you want to root for them even more when they are playing. A person becomes more than just an ID and their gameplay when you get to see what they're like in a non-serious atmosphere.
The interviews at the afterparty were unique because they were candid (at least to a degree). Contrast that to the post-game interviews which are always brief and highly "professional" and I think you'll agree that they give the players more character and personality.
I watched the after party for about 5 minutes. Then I realized I was watching a stream of people drinking in a hotel room and it made me feel worthless inside and I stopped watching it and did the other thing people use the internet for. I like to try to make the best use out of my time as possible.
I love the relaxed atmosphere esports exists in. There is time for being professional when they are on stage and in games representing their sponsors. Once they are out of their matches and done with the interviews they are just normal people, let them relax and do what they want. I absolutely loved just seeing the atmosphere and hearing from players we never hear from. It was a special ticket backstage and I hope we get the chance to view another. Getting players thoughts on the tournament after it is completely is awesome. I would have been happy with a SOTG from Dallas instead, but this works fine.
On November 09 2010 03:16 Chill wrote: I love the demands. Do you think John Madden avoids dropping BJ jokes on a livestream because of his professional reputation, contractual obligations, or for the good of football?
Okay, now let's see which of those are analogous to DJWheat's situation... hmm...
Hm, I wasn't demanding anything. I said I "wanted" a couple of things -- it's just my opinion. I think John Madden avoids dropping BJ jokes for all three of the reasons you mentioned, among a host of others (like...that's not his humor). Not sure what your point there was..?
I just think picking and choosing streams would be wise in the future. Not trying to start a fight here -- this is simply my opinion. I love SC2 and I want to see it thrive as a legitimate business and professional vehicle.
On November 09 2010 03:16 Chill wrote: I love the demands. Do you think John Madden avoids dropping BJ jokes on a livestream because of his professional reputation, contractual obligations, or for the good of football?
Okay, now let's see which of those are analogous to DJWheat's situation... hmm...
Hm, I wasn't demanding anything. I said I "wanted" a couple of things -- it's just my opinion. I think John Madden avoids dropping BJ jokes for all three of the reasons you mentioned, among a host of others (like...that's not his humor). Not sure what your point there was..?
I just think picking and choosing streams would be wise in the future. Not trying to start a fight here -- this is simply my opinion. I love SC2 and I want to see it thrive as a legitimate business and professional vehicle.
Cheers.
My point is that you said they shouldn't do it to further the success of ESports. And then your next point was about John Madden never doing that. The implication was John Madden doesn't do that because he wants to preserve the reputation of football.
My assumption is that John Madden doesn't do it: - 90% to protect his reputation as a broadcaster - 9.9% contractual obligations - 0.1% to preserve the reputation of football.
This makes the comparison between John Madden and DJWheat a bad one.
Where do these fucking people come from? How is it that you can someone can watch an amateur stream of an afterparty and react by saying "Excuse me, sir, could you please keep it down, I actually wanted to watch the cat in a box. Thank you."
Jesus H. Christ.
It's not sponsored sponsored by the guy who's throwing the party, not under close scrutiny by a watchdog group of 59 year old women, and not compulsory to watch. I simply cannot fathom how someone has the audacity to complain about something like this.
On November 09 2010 03:22 MagnusHyperion wrote: I think that anyone who disagrees with the OP is actually not understanding the point. The point is not that they shouldn't drink, relax, and kick back but that they shouldn't BROADCAST it. No one is saying they shouldn't have a good time but the real question becomes one of image for the scene.
I understand the OP's point clearly and I disagree with it. You are arguing that the broadcast of this party will have a negative effect on the "success of ESports (which by the way, is such a crutch for a bad argument; People demand others do things "for the good of ESports" without even consdering what that means or how we achieve it or what the benefits will be)".
I am saying that the benefits I will receive, several years later, through the "success as ESports", are far, far, FAR less than the happiness I received yesterday by watching these guys on stream.
I completely and totally agree. My point in bringing this up is not to point out that the environment was a negative experience or that it wasn't worth the 3-4 hours that I watched it. I am not even saying that I was personally offended by his comments.
I am, however, pointing out the last two minutes as the starting point of the negative combination of alcohol and web-cams. There is a point when people stop caring about what gets put out there. I am saying the they skirted that line last night and that the awesomeness of streaming from a casual environment where everyone is obviously having a great time relaxing can over shadow those negative effects. As I said earlier, I think the cameras got turned off just in time. Should they have kept going or people had not been sober enough to realize that they were still streaming, things may have been much, much worse. I posted as a caution not as someone who thought it was a terrible idea. I think its a great idea and I am grateful that Wheat had the presence of mind to know when enough was enough.
I don't fully agree with the OP, but he gave some constructive criticism along with a lot of complements. He was polite too.
Again, I think he's wrong here, but I think he might not be that far off concerning the future of esports not too far down the road.
A few of those guys are really interested in seeing esports become more mainstream, and almost all of those guys are interested in it becoming more lucrative. Those two things happen through ad money and sponsorships.
Chill -- to answer your earlier question about why Madden doesn't say stuff like that on the air, it's a contractual obligation and reputation issue. Where do those pressures come from though? Because companies are wary of what they associate with, and companies associating with football is good for football. Football is a corporation, so they split that stuff into layers, but at the top, there's a leader who gets the need for discretion.
Nothing bad happened last night (at least not that I saw), and it's good that they refused to show the party directly. That was savvy on Wheat's part. In general, Wheat is really solid with that kind of decision-making. He gets it.
As esports grows, it will be more and more important to bake in some discretion, buffers, etiquette or media-training to minimize the risk of someone accidentally doing something that spooks a source of money.
That doesn't mean you have to whitewash everyone completely. In every sport there are guys that are total characters or even border-line problems who manage to stay within the bounds 99% of the time. McEnroe, Chad Johnson, Muhammad Ali, Shaq, etc..
It's just a balance between -- where's our money coming from, what are they sensitive to, how much can we trust our players, and what precautions do we need to take?
I watched every bit of the cast last night and loved it. Again, I saw nothing wrong, and even if something bad had happened, the scene is too small right now for it to matter unless it was something sensational and/or flagrant. It's not a bad thing to be aware of though as the money and attention grow.
On November 09 2010 03:20 FabledIntegral wrote: God what's with all the negativity towards frats in here. Is there anyone else here affiliated? It's not all like animal house you know. Fraternities/Sororities are generally the biggest contributers towards charities on campus. Last year the Greek system on my campus raised at least ~$150,000 for various charities... blah.
Yeah, I'm a vice president of Alpha Sigma Phi at my campus (AT Chapter) and quite frankly i have just given up fighting off that war. It's useless, I can convince someone that not all fraternities are like that then 5 seconds later the word "frat" is being thrown around in reference to crazy drunken glory.
Hey! I am an alumni of alpha sig and I went to UC Berkeley, good to see fellow alpha sig members play SC.
On November 09 2010 03:59 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Wait you were offended by Slasher saying blowjob but nothing iNcontroL may have said at any point offended you?
Interesting....
I was thinking the same thing, lol. The analogy of SeleCT vs IdrA was so colorful
They have a right to show whatever they want on their stream, according to the rules and regulations of their ISP and provider of the stream. As long as they are within those guidelines, we should not "impose restrictions"
The stream was not directly affiliated with MLG, and aside from the fact that they casted MLG.
The world will not fall apart,, you will not pass go, you will not need a multipass.
Dude(anselm), if you thought last night was crazy and that enough was enough, you clearly havent experienced where things indeed get totally out of hand. That was only just a smidgen of drunken fun. Negative combination of alcohol and web cams is honestly the last thing I expect people to complaisant about when it comes to alcohol. What is much much worse to you? Drunk pranks? I get what you are saying that you care about e sports but I also think you need to not be as uptight.
On November 09 2010 03:59 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Wait you were offended by Slasher saying blowjob but nothing iNcontroL may have said at any point offended you?
Interesting....
I was kind of onboard with OP when I started reading his post, but then I realized that I was only agreeing because I just really don't like Slasher. So yeah, nothing was wrong with doing the cast or the way the cast was done, I just wish Slasher wasn't on it
I watched it and enjoyed very much. It felt like a very real and legitimate and fun look into the world behind the game and casters. I personally feel it is a great thing to see the people involved in SC2 at the pro level still have fun, and most importantly have a passion of the game.
Its not like you could not find an example of every major sport casting and player base, doing things irresponsibly or frowned upon by their "governing body." Chris Berman cursing out his staff at sports center. Marv Albert's odd sexual fetishes, numerous players spouting off about various subjects related and unrelated to their sport. Its not a "new" problem nor is it one going away anytime soon. We are humans, not robots. We'll screw up, make mistakes and be very real.
I do think, as SC2 (or e-sports in general) grow in both popularity and viewer-ship, the participants may need to be slightly more careful about what gets taped and put out onto the internet. But with how quickly technology is advancing, the same can be said about all facets of our lives.
You know, while i was watching the stream, it was after so and so interview people were actually asking for them to show the party and stuff and the shenanigans going on so we demanded to see the drunkeness. Honestly I dont even think people were that drunk. lol
Im surprised that you arent touching on the fact that Idra probably drank and hes only 20! I think the OP would talk about how law breaking isnt good for the future of e-sports either.
There are a number of problems with the complaint that our community should conform to the sensibilities of hypothetical prudes.
Who exactly are these people who will get so vehemently offended and will organize and vocalize with such force that sponsors will assess their ill will as outweighing our good will? By almost all accounts, the current community doesn't give a shit, so in order for the haters and PC prudes to be held as a threatening force, we need to associate the success of eSports with the endorsement from these people. I believe eSports' current success evidences the fact that our community does not need the support of such prudes in order to prosper.
Also, considering that the internet is the key organ in connecting our community and its content, it's safe to assume that usually once a fan becomes more involved in eSports, he will be exposed to much more controversial content than what we've seen on LO3 or elsewhere. Just the mere act of playing games with strangers almost guarantees exposure to some of the most vulgar, idiotic trash talk. This barrier of entry repels those who simply can't stand it; everyone else is more or less tolerant, with people less tolerant learning ways to cope.
While I don't particulary agree with the OP he does raise some valid points. This type of thing is probably not what's going to promote esports to a broader mainstream audience.
On November 09 2010 04:05 Schamus wrote: This thread is just full of fail.
They have a right to show whatever they want on their stream, according to the rules and regulations of their ISP and provider of the stream. As long as they are within those guidelines, we should not "impose restrictions"
The stream was not directly affiliated with MLG, and aside from the fact that they casted MLG.
The world will not fall apart,, you will not pass go, you will not need a multipass.
Underage viewers see alcohol all the time.
End of issue.
The issue put forward by the OP has nothing to do with a person's "legal rights" or affiliations. He simply was calling for a more professional take on the conduct of the messengers of pro-gaming. One is free to operate at the legal minimum, or transcend that which is legally required of him and pursue a more personal, lofty morality.
Whether or not I agree with the OP is irrelevant. The lucidity of the post was refreshing, and the constant flow of combative filth that followed was disheartening.
OP doesn't need thicker skin, nor does he need to learn what it is like to be at a party. He understands folks like to have fun and sometimes some people can be crass while doing so.
What he did do is put together a well articulated argument for why acting like they did in a public light was not a good idea. To be honest the idea of showing a cam at an after party is kind of a neat idea, but I sure as hell don't want to hear about blow jobs in detail when I logged on to see starcraft.
For those of you who mindlessly attack the OP like rats on cheese, please think logically and not with your genitalia. You don't all but intentionally cut off a large portion of your fan base for no reason than to stick it to the man. Reading this thread it just reminds me that the cliche gamer is a 15-22 year old pot head who thinks pornography is cool and loves to talk about drugs. Even though TL is a bit "higher class" on average, these dregs of the gaming world still permeate everything.
EDIT: Of course they are allowed to show what they want. No one is going to argue that they should be silence from being crass. The OP didn't say that at all, and folks are getting off topic and bringing it up. The only thing OP said was that in order to produce a product more easily sold, keep it -slightly- cleaner. American Esports market is all but non-existent, why produce additional hurdles for oneself?
I watched it for a little bit, and it was pretty awkward so I stopped at only a couple minutes in. Something about watching other people "party" and drink on a fairly improvised stream- really makes me feel like a wierdo, not to mention I'm not a big fan of awkward moments.
DjWheat has always kinna been a bit edgy (in relation to most SC2 streams) and I would expect it. Though I didn't SEE it, BJ jokes and making fun of some girl, I wouldn't have that on my stream... but that fact that Wheat did have it doesn't make me like him any less.
How many of you actually read the entire OP all the way through? OP never said they couldn't legally show them partying. He is saying that to third parties looking into e-sports as a viable, legitimate thing, something like a bunch of drunk guys talking about blow jobs would give the wrong impression.
Its so simple I'm surprised how few of up can understand whats being said when a well written paragraph is put in front of you.
On November 09 2010 04:13 VonLego wrote: Reading this thread it just reminds me that the cliche gamer is a 15-22 year old pot head who thinks pornography is cool and loves to talk about drugs. Even though TL is a bit "higher class" on average, these dregs of the gaming world still permeate everything.
I think you need to take a long hard look at 90% of the pro-gamers you are rooting for, many, MANY of them fit right into that category.
On November 09 2010 04:10 Nevy wrote: While I don't particulary agree with the OP he does raise some valid points. This type of thing is probably not what's going to promote esports to a broader mainstream audience.
But this type of thing is a lot less than what mainstream audiences are used to from traditional sports. Once incontrol starts dogfighting or HD starts busting caps in people's asses, or Idra goes on a rant about Jews, or Painuser strips and starts dancing naked, then we'll have reached where traditional sports are at in terms of professionalism outside the workplace.
Edit: I will agree with the people who said watching drunk people partying is pretty boring after the initial niceness of seeing those players in a relaxed atmosphere. But I don't think it's a big deal in terms of sponsors/esports, which I assume is what you're all worried about here. I think sponsors are much more worried about how a finals game will crash for 2 hours and can do so at any time if internet fails.
On November 09 2010 04:05 Schamus wrote: This thread is just full of fail.
They have a right to show whatever they want on their stream, according to the rules and regulations of their ISP and provider of the stream. As long as they are within those guidelines, we should not "impose restrictions"
The stream was not directly affiliated with MLG, and aside from the fact that they casted MLG.
The world will not fall apart,, you will not pass go, you will not need a multipass.
Underage viewers see alcohol all the time.
End of issue.
Your response is "full of fail;" he never suggested anyone did not have the right to show or do what they did, so your entire post is attacking a straw-man.
On November 09 2010 04:07 teamsolid wrote: Why is this thread still open when like 90% of people fully disagree with him? There's nothing really constructive going on here...
His OP was more constructive than your entire history of posts. Just because you don't agree with his thesis doesn't mean it should be closed.
On November 09 2010 04:07 teamsolid wrote: Why is this thread still open when like 90% of people fully disagree with him? There's nothing really constructive going on here...
His OP was more constructive than your entire history of posts. Just because you don't agree with his thesis doesn't mean it should be closed.
It's not about agreeing with it, it's that it's wrong.
The argument boils down to: - This shouldn't be done because of the negative image this could have for E-SPORTS.
The reality is: -There was like 5 minutes of crude jokes after 3 hours of casting.
On November 09 2010 04:07 teamsolid wrote: Why is this thread still open when like 90% of people fully disagree with him? There's nothing really constructive going on here...
His OP was more constructive than your entire history of posts. Just because you don't agree with his thesis doesn't mean it should be closed.
It's not about agreeing with it, it's that it's wrong.
On November 09 2010 04:10 Nevy wrote: While I don't particulary agree with the OP he does raise some valid points. This type of thing is probably not what's going to promote esports to a broader mainstream audience.
A broad mainstream audience wasn't gonna watch this either way. This was not something to broaden Esports audience, or to look super professional. If I wanna make people interested in SC2 or Esports I'm not gonna show them that video, blowjob jokes or not.
This was however a great service for the fans, and they really delivered on that. (I was a little disappointed they didn't interview Nazgul but oh well :p) they deserve all the thanks they can get.
Also
On November 09 2010 03:59 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Wait you were offended by Slasher saying blowjob but nothing iNcontroL may have said at any point offended you?
On November 09 2010 04:10 EchOne wrote: Who exactly are these people who will get so vehemently offended and will organize and vocalize with such force that sponsors will assess their ill will as outweighing our good will?
Ill will is about 10x as potent in business as good will and can spread quickly. It doesn't take much to cause a problem, especially not if the complaint is something most people would agree is bad.
If somebody goes off on a crazy gay-bashing rant or a racist rant or gives out someone's personal info and tells people to harass them -- that's the kind of stuff 4chan or Reddit goes on the warpath about.
Or take it another direction. If the SCII scene is rife with sex and needlessly vulgar stuff (which it kind of is), it doesn't take much to see how that will hurt the ability to attract and keep younger kids who want to watch. If the wrong parent overhears something at the exact wrong moment, not only will Johnny not get to watch SCII anymore, but some bureaucrat or news outlet or watchgroup is going to get a call. Then you start hearing crap like, "Esports -- Why You Might Need to Keep Your Child Away." Then Blizzard has to do kill the scapegoat by shutting down some caster or player or organizer or making things even tighter.
Not that it's very likely to happen because the people leading things are pretty savvy, but if you just let stuff go with absolutely no measures to keep that from happening, it will happen. The only danger is if those controls don't happen fast enough and something unlucky happens.
On November 09 2010 04:13 VonLego wrote: For those of you who mindlessly attack the OP like rats on cheese, please think logically and not with your genitalia. You don't all but intentionally cut off a large portion of your fan base for no reason than to stick it to the man. Reading this thread it just reminds me that the cliche gamer is a 15-22 year old pot head who thinks pornography is cool and loves to talk about drugs. Even though TL is a bit "higher class" on average, these dregs of the gaming world still permeate everything.
wait what
I think this paragraph needs a bit more attention!
@OP: In many sports-events the winners of big tournaments behave like animals afterwards and are filmed fooling around naked in the shower, pooring champagne over one another and generally act in a way that would embarass a five year old
Is this a problem?
No, exactly the opposite - it's nice for the viewer to get an insight into what's going on "backstage", how those ppl enjoy themselves and not just the shiny lies normally presented for the general public. And I hope that your point wasn't that the problem is that they "were" just having fun, because then you seriously need to lighten up.
It's been brought up before but you guys do realize they spend almost 2 hours to get the stream to work, amidst all the work they did FOR ESPORTS throughout the entire weekend, just so people like you can enjoy a little back stage entertainment with these guys? Seriously, do us a favor and take that fucking stick out of your ass.
For the record your RIGHT to opinion is respected, but your opinion is not, please stop bitching about the hard work these people do.
LOL, I thought that was the reason this thread was open still zatic. On a side note, I always thought the Halo 3 players were the frat boys of the e sports scene. Halo 3 paid like 20k to each player while Jinro only won 6200. E sports for SC2 is just starting to grow and things like Lo3 only solidify the strong fanbase. The guy also making jokes (slayer i believe) isnt that behind the scene anyways. I could understand your point more if Day9 was the one making racy jokes
On November 09 2010 04:30 sleepingdog wrote: @OP: In many sports-events the winners of big tournaments behave like animals afterwards and are filmed fooling around naked in the shower, pooring champagne over one another and generally act in a way that would embarass a five year old
Nobody finds that stuff offensive, though. The OP was talking about being careful of offensive stuff. The better analogy would be if the guys won the World Series and one of the interviewers asked the pitcher about whether he's expecting a celebratory blowjob later that night.
(Again, I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but I don't think your example really works.)
I'm not really understanding people's concern here, people were drinking and having a good time. Then you go on to refer to them as 'party boys', giving them what seems to be some kind of negative connotation, but you don't really identify why and keep the implications anyways. I could understand your concern if they were having a party a bit more 'hardcore', with drugs and promiscuous girls (which even then still isn't obscene), but what I saw on the stream was a pretty toned down 'sausage fest' party that would be seen as perfectly socially acceptable in the majority of circles. I don't know what rock you've been living under but you've really got to pull your head out of your ass.
On November 09 2010 04:33 adeezy wrote: LOL, I thought that was the reason this thread was open still zatic. On a side note, I always thought the Halo 3 players were the frat boys of the e sports scene. Halo 3 paid like 20k to each player while Jinro only won 6200. E sports for SC2 is just starting to grow and things like Lo3 only solidify the strong fanbase. The guy also making jokes (slayer i believe) isnt that behind the scene anyways. I could understand your point more if Day9 was the one making racy jokes
And what I saw from Day 9 was nothing but professional. He refused to have a beer on the stream and acted as he always does. No credit there though, the attention is on someone 90% of mlg doesn't know and one joke.
I'll reply to this... eventually. I'm totally beat.
We spend about 2 hours BEFORE the cast even went up trying to get it working. I basically setup a mobile casting solution with the help of SirScoots in that two hours. It was a pain, but yes... we wanted to do it for the community.
What I really wanna address is the whole "professionalism" thing. I have 12 years of history in this industry (pro-gaming/esports) and I'm sure I could drop some epic knowledge bombs that would have most people in here clearly understand why I choose to represent gaming the way I choose to.
I'd love to drop the novel in my head right now, but I frankly have no god damn energy.
Rest assured, I'm happy to address the OP and the supporters on both sides of the "issue" (if you can even call it that?)
why is OP getting so much hate? so you disagree with his opinion, but it doesnt mean he is "bitching". His post is polite, mild mannered, and just wanting to remind JP/MLG that in the age of the interwebs, everything is public. All it takes for a perfect reputation to be tarnished is one small obscure fuckup that has been recorded.
Which is not to say the MLG afterparty cast is a fuckup, far from it actually. Nobody is disputing the hard work and awesomeness of MLG tournaments. It is just wise to be aware of these things and to not be caught off guard. If you are intentionally broadcasting BJ jokes, then all is fine, as long as it is not a "oh i forgot the webcam was turned on" moment, as long as it is completely intentional, then MLG is aware of the consequences and choose to take it.
On November 09 2010 04:40 djWHEAT wrote: I'll reply to this... eventually. I'm totally beat.
We spend about 2 hours BEFORE the cast even went up trying to get it working. I basically setup a mobile casting solution with the help of SirScoots in that two hours. It was a pain, but yes... we wanted to do it for the community.
What I really wanna address is the whole "professionalism" thing. I have 12 years of history in this industry (pro-gaming/esports) and I'm sure I could drop some epic knowledge bombs that would have most people in here clearly understand why I choose to represent gaming the way I choose to.
I'd love to drop the novel in my head right now, but I frankly have no god damn energy.
Rest assured, I'm happy to address the OP and the supporters on both sides of the "issue" (if you can even call it that?)
Interesting read none the less.
Wheat -- I've got a few posts in here sympathetic to the OP on some of his points, but I've been nothing but impressed by your professionalism as a caster and as a leader for the scene itself. You've got a good thing going and bigger things ahead. Enjoyed the hell out of MLG and the afterparty yesterday. Thanks for the good work.
On November 09 2010 04:41 Railxp wrote: why is OP getting so much hate? so you disagree with his opinion, but it doesnt mean he is "bitching". His post is polite, mild mannered, and just wanting to remind JP/MLG that in the age of the interwebs, everything is public. All it takes for a perfect reputation to be tarnished is one small obscure fuckup that has been recorded.
Which is not to say the MLG afterparty cast is a fuckup, far from it actually. Nobody is disputing the hard work and awesomeness of MLG tournaments. It is just wise to be aware of these things and to not be caught off guard. If you are intentionally broadcasting BJ jokes, then all is fine, as long as it is not a "oh i forgot the webcam was turned on" moment, as long as it is completely intentional, then MLG is aware of the consequences and choose to take it.
The problem is the cast itself has nothing to do with MLG besides the fact that a few of them casted it and people there played in it. There isnt one MLG logo, link ,etc to this event. It was an Lo3 production; their motto "progaming without the fluff".
On November 09 2010 04:40 djWHEAT wrote: I'll reply to this... eventually. I'm totally beat.
We spend about 2 hours BEFORE the cast even went up trying to get it working. I basically setup a mobile casting solution with the help of SirScoots in that two hours. It was a pain, but yes... we wanted to do it for the community.
What I really wanna address is the whole "professionalism" thing. I have 12 years of history in this industry (pro-gaming/esports) and I'm sure I could drop some epic knowledge bombs that would have most people in here clearly understand why I choose to represent gaming the way I choose to.
I'd love to drop the novel in my head right now, but I frankly have no god damn energy.
Rest assured, I'm happy to address the OP and the supporters on both sides of the "issue" (if you can even call it that?)
Interesting read none the less.
Thanks Wheat. I would like to reply directly to you and I totally understand you are tired and prob not gonna respond back.
I would like to straight up say thank you for everything you did. Not only was it an awesome cast between you and Day but your energy and willingness to contribute to the community is amazing. The fact that after three days of casting, a ridiculously drawn out final due to the lag, and finally getting everything in one place for the community to join in is awesome. I, in no way, want to question your or the people you were talking with's professionalism. You did everything right. Though I did mention it in original post and professionalism really is what the the caution is referring to, I certainly don't want to imply that you did anything wrong.
I loved the cast. I love that there are people out there as dedicated as you who will do it for the fans. Please don't let anything that has been said, whether by me or anyone else, deter you from doing that type of thing in the future like what chill alluded to earlier of just not turning on the cameras. Like I said in an earlier post, I want to make sure in that situation where drinking and partying are the focal point of the evening and you are tuning us in, that things do not get to a point where things have gone too far. Again, you did exactly what you should have in my eyes, turning off the camera after a certain point because obviously the point is to unwind, obviously the point is to not have to be professional any more. Thanks for bringing us what you did.
personally from my spectator viewpoint i find it incredibly refreshing to see them be themselves and be relaxed on camera and not have to be in super serious mode all the time. it kinda makes you as a viewer feel more apart of the family and have more familiarity with the people there cause you can see their personalities and realize these people arent robots but are people just like you and me and find out this really is a great group of really cool guys. to me it just makes it so much better of an experience and i hope one day our culture can move forward to be more like that instead of pushing the repressive fake super serious mode people think high profile people should be in at all times when in the public eye. it just makes it all feel so fake.
On November 09 2010 04:07 teamsolid wrote: Why is this thread still open when like 90% of people fully disagree with him? There's nothing really constructive going on here...
Why would a Thread be closed simple because the majority disagrees with him? There's no flaming going on here, the OP brought up a valid point and most people has been trying to form a reasonable discussion on the matter. Plenty of contructive comments might be yet to come, who are you to tell?
Don't know how either side can make a big deal out of this.
No idea what was said, but (if anything) the only thing needed is maybe try not to be so embarrassing live. Though the only damage it does at this point really is giving yourself a bad image to those you offended. I don't think it's gonna stop esports in any way, and if it does grow, I believe they will adapt just fine and cut those things off of live broadcasts or whatever else they feel it's necessary.
Also, some people are reacting so defensively to such harmless OP, is it that hard not to rage over every single argument on the internet? Someone who brings up criticism isn't automatically going to ruin "the fun" all by themselves. This is just a forum thread, no rage needed to have a debate over something so small, and the final decisions rest on the hands of the people who run the show.
Will people stop falling to the far sides of this argument? This is just like politics.
I thought the op did a great job voiceing his concerns in a well mannered form. He enjoyed the cast, and appreciates what they do for the esport, but had some concerns about some of the content that was being broadcasted.
Most of the replies are either "get a fucking life and go party, and get the stick out of your ass"
or
"this guy is completely right, they should never try to mix fun and work at the same time."
Neither of which are accurate.
I think the OP did a great job of flying down the middle expressing both sides of the argument. You can disagree with the OP and bring your own argments, but let's not try to put words in each others mouths. Can't we all just get along?
Television networks broadcast Major League Baseball teams dousing each other in beer and champagne after wins, and drinking heavily, while interviewing them. This is broadcast on national television to tens of millions of people around the world. I have never heard of a parent who watched this, and said, "I am pulling my successful child from select baseball, because he may one day become good enough to play in the major leagues and get a chance to be with a team that makes it to the playoffs and embarrasses me on national television by drinking and celebrating"
Formula One races conclude with the top 3 walking past droves of beautiful, sexy woman, followed by champagne fights on stage with drinking involved. This is also broadcast to tens of millions of people around the world.
This was an after party of MLG viewed by ~2,500 die-hard SC2 fans, whom, I might add, went to a secondary ustream channel, just to enjoy the festivities with the competitors in an intimate setting. Interviews were conducted with various top competitors, most of whom were absolutely fine with giving their insight to the tournament, as well as throwing in a few jokes. You could argue that, "oh what if Little Timmy is watching, and his mother sees it?". Well Little Timmy's mom would see or hear the same thing via chat, or mic, in any online game that Little Timmy played. This IS the internet after all... Every gamer has experience with people using crude, vulgar language, and most of us at some point have most likely had that run-in with a parent who seemed shocked to hear some guy drop the F bomb loudly over the microphone while you had speakers on, or made a lewd comment.
Relating back to the connection between major sports and E-sports, I do not see a great concern for what was broadcast to the public from the hotel room. The stream had a consistent level of professionalism from the hosts throughout the night, often telling viewers "It's a party, use your imagination. We aren't showing it directly", ect;. I am fine with what they did.
On November 09 2010 04:58 adeezy wrote: Wait so Anslem, at first you called what they did as stupid mistakes but responding to DJwheat you are saying some things totally different.
No, the reference to a stupid mistake is saying: I would hate to see some thing awesome brought down because of a stupid mistake. Stupid mistakes are easier to make when alcohol is involved.
A drunken mistake couldnt take down esports no matter how big of a mistake. Unless Dustin Bowder got super drunk at blizzard and poured all over the sc2 game servers or something. Lol. I understand your concern but I think it's over naivety of how drunken people can really get.
On November 09 2010 04:58 adeezy wrote: Wait so Anslem, at first you called what they did as stupid mistakes but responding to DJwheat you are saying some things totally different.
No, the reference to a stupid mistake is saying: I would hate to see some thing awesome brought down because of a stupid mistake. Stupid mistakes are easier to make when alcohol is involved.
If you don't like what you're watching or listening to, turn the channel or turn it off. I'm pretty sure there wasn't a gun to your head when you were listening to it. If you choose to be offended then fine, be offended. Why post a message here saying that? What were you hoping to accomplish?
Also, why not send djWheat a message directly sharing your sensitive emotional feelings?
When are people going to stop believing that webcasts made by a bunch of video game nerds about a video game are supposed to be professional, reserved, PG-13 affairs. Welcome to the high end SC community, a bunch of 20-somethings who happen to really like a video game. Are you seriously surprised that they end up acting like 20-somethings?
Man, that's half the draw of things like the Day9 daily, liveon3, etc stuff. It's just raw footage of people talking about video games. If I wanted boring, uninspired, scripted crap I'd turn on G4.
DjWheat showed how painfully professional he is all through the MLG cast with Day[9] and kept his cool through crazy amounts of no-lan-support related crap.
I feel like this 'open letter' is poorly targeted, and probably shouldn't have been written in the first place.
This was a post-event party thrown for everyone (as I understand it, by Lazarus' manager) that was not official on any level.
DjWheat, being the entertainer he is opted to bring his camera, microphone, and give us, the community, what we wanted. More access to the players, whats on their minds, and even some insight into what the scene looks like beyond two nerds talking about two nerds battling it out on the live streams.
If anything, I think people watching picked up on the fact that these guys, regardless of team etc. just want to see the game played very well, and while competitive, are extremely friendly. We saw EG and TL sharing a couch and some pizza talking about the futures of their teams and their hopes for eSports as a whole, and I think it was a great thing to see.
Getting angry at DjWheat because drunk people sometimes say things you don't want them to seems silly at best.
On November 09 2010 04:40 djWHEAT wrote: What I really wanna address is the whole "professionalism" thing. I have 12 years of history in this industry (pro-gaming/esports) and I'm sure I could drop some epic knowledge bombs that would have most people in here clearly understand why I choose to represent gaming the way I choose to.
I remember when you and RedEye (i believe he was one of your first co-casters back then?) basicly pioneered the idea of having casters in quake, and it's amazing to see you being able to transition so well into starcraft. Equally impressive to see you maintaining the same passion for competitive gameplay as you had back then.
As for the thread.... i honestly dont care. All content involving ret and nony is good content (not to mention all the other players, ofcourse).
Anselm, you might have had good intentions by writing this post, but people like you are the reason video games have ratings and the supreme court has to hear cases about "violent" video games being on the same level as pornography. Two things I happen to know a lot about.
On November 09 2010 04:58 adeezy wrote: Wait so Anslem, at first you called what they did as stupid mistakes but responding to DJwheat you are saying some things totally different.
No, the reference to a stupid mistake is saying: I would hate to see some thing awesome brought down because of a stupid mistake. Stupid mistakes are easier to make when alcohol is involved.
Sure, nobody wants something awesome brought down because of a "stupid mistake". A little bit of swearing on an unoffical stream is not a "stupid mistake" though.
You could even argue that they should swear more. In the end their target audience consists mainly of young males, who are into computer gaming. Why is South Park so successful ? Why were Beavis & Butthead so successful ? Certainly not because they censore everything they say.
Don't get me wrong, an official setting is not the place to drop the f-bombs or whatever. But the show DJ Wheat did was not an official MLG Show. I really don't think that the swearing will have any negative effects what so ever, because the companies, that sponsor e-sport at the moment have the same target audience of young males ( and females)
Maybe things will look different in 10 years, but the whole thing is a non-issue right now. At least that's what i think.
Edit: The reason that Video gaming is not viewed as a sport by the general public is not some swearing or something like that. It is just that most of the older people have no real connection to computer games at all. It is just a matter of time until that changes though.
I am an older gamer, former competitor and real-life professional -- Q123 / CS in the days of PGL - and I wanted to give a perspective of someone who can relate to what the OP, in my opinion, was trying to respectfully say to Dj Wheat.
Firstly, I believe the OP was trying to be respectful to Dj Wheat, the Sc2 community and the E-sports community at large (with a big thank you for a job well-done). Secondly, I believe the OP was stating that the OP felt some of the moments caught in the after-party were not professional and as such, would not be allowed on professional TV. Thirdly, I believe the OP's intent was to illuminate this occasion for further reference so that Dj Wheat, MLG, the Sc2 community and the E-sports community in general would not have their reputation diminished for any reason to the public-at-large.
In these regards, I fully support the OP.
Some of the material broadcasted was truly representative of a great group of people having fun. Yet, some of that material was of a standard that would not be permissible on public, professional television. Therefore, from the perspective of a viewer who would like the E-sports community to succeed (and Dj Wheat to get a huge 7 figure salary - with Day9, of course), I would like to see in the future, the standards of broadcasting of E-sports be no different than if I were watching commentary of the NFL.
If I were to see NFL players making comments about sexuality and indiscreet behaviours during the Superbowl after-party broadcast, while I may not personally have an issue, I would recognize that other viewers might and would likely make a complaint regarding the professionalism of the NFL and the broadcaster responsible.
On November 09 2010 05:19 jacclark wrote: Some of the material broadcasted was truly representative of a great group of people having fun. Yet, some of that material was of a standard that would not be permissible on public, professional television. Therefore, from the perspective of a viewer who would like the E-sports community to succeed (and Dj Wheat to get a huge 7 figure salary - with Day9, of course), I would like to see in the future, the standards of broadcasting of E-sports be no different that if I were watching commentary of the NFL.
And this is the problem. You're equating a livestream of an afterparty to a broadcast on professional television. They were professional during MLG's broadcast. The cast in question was in an entirely different context and should be treated as such.
On November 09 2010 05:22 Rokk wrote: And this is the problem. You're equating a livestream of an afterparty to a broadcast on professional television. They were professional during MLG's broadcast. The cast in question was in an entirely different context and should be treated as such.
Sir,
I respectfully disagree that the context is different. Public broadcasting is still public. The ease of video information going viral on the internet should make everyone wary of this fact.
Furthermore, as a professional in my career, I am held to the same levels of professionalism where-ever I might be and whatever the reason I may be doing something. I wished, "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" applied to everything, but in the professional world, this is simply not true.
Public broadcasting online and directed to a small niche group shouldnt have the same standards of public broadcasting. The context is different even if the stream is availiable to everyone, its on the internet where things should be filtered at your own discretion. Comparing a stream to Vegas.. I dont really know where you are going with this one
On November 09 2010 05:22 Rokk wrote: And this is the problem. You're equating a livestream of an afterparty to a broadcast on professional television. They were professional during MLG's broadcast. The cast in question was in an entirely different context and should be treated as such.
Sir,
I respectfully disagree that the context is different. Public broadcasting is still public. The ease of video information going viral on the internet should make everyone wary of this fact.
Furthermore, as a professional in my career, I am held to the same levels of professionalism where-ever I might be and whatever the reason I may be doing something. I wished, "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" applied to everything, but in the professional world, this is simply not true.
Respectfully yours.
The show is a lot more on the Vegas side of the spectrum than the professional side. Had this been a broadcast on TV, they would have acted differently. Just look at how they acted during MLG if you believe otherwise.
On November 09 2010 05:22 Rokk wrote: And this is the problem. You're equating a livestream of an afterparty to a broadcast on professional television. They were professional during MLG's broadcast. The cast in question was in an entirely different context and should be treated as such.
Sir,
I respectfully disagree that the context is different. Public broadcasting is still public. The ease of video information going viral on the internet should make everyone wary of this fact.
Furthermore, as a professional in my career, I am held to the same levels of professionalism where-ever I might be and whatever the reason I may be doing something. I wished, "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" applied to everything, but in the professional world, this is simply not true.
Respectfully yours.
yeah, and while a lot of people will argue, thats just how it is deal with it, i'd say that its a serious issue with our society. and it is only we who can change that. the problem is society needs to move forward out of those dark ages, it shouldnt just be accepted as the way things are. things need to change.
On November 09 2010 05:22 Rokk wrote: And this is the problem. You're equating a livestream of an afterparty to a broadcast on professional television. They were professional during MLG's broadcast. The cast in question was in an entirely different context and should be treated as such.
Sir,
I respectfully disagree that the context is different. Public broadcasting is still public. The ease of video information going viral on the internet should make everyone wary of this fact.
Furthermore, as a professional in my career, I am held to the same levels of professionalism where-ever I might be and whatever the reason I may be doing something. I wished, "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" applied to everything, but in the professional world, this is simply not true.
Respectfully yours.
But what exactly you can or can't do, depends a lot on your career, wouldn't you agree ?
Whether or not I agree with the OP, the response from a lot of posters makes me shudder. No one ever sounded more credible by making ad hominem attacks.
Also, the homosexual innuendo on the stream over the tournament made me cringe quite a bit. Would be nice to see that kept in check.
On November 09 2010 05:22 Rokk wrote: And this is the problem. You're equating a livestream of an afterparty to a broadcast on professional television. They were professional during MLG's broadcast. The cast in question was in an entirely different context and should be treated as such.
Sir,
I respectfully disagree that the context is different. Public broadcasting is still public. The ease of video information going viral on the internet should make everyone wary of this fact.
Furthermore, as a professional in my career, I am held to the same levels of professionalism where-ever I might be and whatever the reason I may be doing something. I wished, "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" applied to everything, but in the professional world, this is simply not true.
Respectfully yours.
But what exactly you can or can't do, depends a lot on your career, wouldn't you agree ?
If your as much in the spotlight as day9 and djwheat are I'd say it's one of those careers where it's more important to mind what you're doing... Whether it is a the MLG stream or some aftershow stream.
I'd like to note here and now we are debating the fundamentals of the problem, and I highly enjoy it.
Is streaming the same as public broadcasting on television? Should it follow the same standards?
We're now debating what it means to each person. While streaming is a bit less advertised and less viewers will see it, it is still open to the public. I find this notion incredibly interesting.
*frustration* People are gonna think that because it is aired on a stream, and not television, it shouldn't be held to the same standards. But the problem for me is, if you want this on national television (which is what everyone wants e-sports to accomplish in America) shouldn't we act like it is on national television at all times and treat it like a true sport, with a diverse fan base. And I don't see how he said, "We're all adults here." or whatever, when there is a huge fan base in younger kids.
Wow, people need to realize that as soon as the camera turns on it's no longer a private party. Once the camera turns on you're in the public eye, and when you're in the public eye you need to grow up and act mature until the camera is off. That doesn't just go for esports it goes for every single league, buisness, or w/e else. You want to be taken seriously stop acting like little kids when people are watching and start showing people that this is a serious sport.
Maybe it's my German genes that gave me a stick up my backside, but i cannot respect people who get drunk enough to lose their good manners. Luckily i haven't seen the video, so i don't know who i can't respect anymore or if it really was that bad. Partying, having fun and drinking i can accept, forgetting your good manners or making jokes that are not funny - just because you are too drunk to see how annoying you are - i cannot.
Well, maybe i'm just too old... now get off my lawn.
On November 09 2010 05:15 Monarch.StarCrack wrote: Anselm, you might have had good intentions by writing this post, but people like you are the reason video games have ratings and the supreme court has to hear cases about "violent" video games being on the same level as pornography. Two things I happen to know a lot about.
First of all, what's wrong with ratings? Secondly, I think the OP has a point so far as pointing out that the way you behave on camera as a public figure not only have an impact on you, but the industry as a whole. People don't take eSports seriously because they see the industry being comprised of a bunch of vulgar, low-clas, immature kids and broadcasts like this really only enforce that kind of image. Of course one person and/or one broadcast isn't going to discredit the entire eSports industry, but I think it's important to encourage people to be a little more aware of how they represent themselves.
Of course there are plenty of people who make successful careers out of having absolutely no taste or class. Ranging from Howard Stern to Johnny Knoxville, some have made millions from basically broadcasting stupidity. While it's certainly your personal decision as to how you prefer to represent yourself, I would never want to sink down to that level and broadcasting a bunch of people getting drunk and stupid at a party is definitely something in that general direction. You can have a "no fluff" broadcast without being crude. I don't understand why people some people seem to think that this kind of behavior is what makes a cast "no fluff". It certainly is without fluff, but it also says something about the type of person you are if that's how you're choosing to behave on a public stream just because nobody's forcing you to behave otherwise.
I don't think anyone here is saying that any such broadcasts should be banned or anything like that, but just saying that the things you broadcast become part of what people see to be your character. And as a fan of eSports I would prefer people outside of the community to be able to see the faces of the community in a positive light because it furthers the credibility of the sport and it shows people that we're not just a bunch of kids that never grew up.
I believe it was after the email scandal of Wallstreet went out when someone made the analogy of
"Act as if any of your actions will be headlines tomorrow." - This was in regards to workplace conduct, but does it follow suit in the argument here too because djWheat is a quasi-celebrity?
I still don't understand some of the arguments here. I imagine some of the people bashing the OP didn't bother to read that he enjoyed the cast for the most part and noticed some questionable things that bothered him. You don't have to be offended by it to understand why someone else might be - imagine you're tuning in to watch professionals discuss the game and that is what you see. Sure, it's a party and sure, it's a live stream, but why stream it then? So a nerds can try to live vicariously through them? It was perfectly fine for them to behave that way, but there's no reason to flaunt it in a public venue. There was no reason a bunch of drunkards should have been aired.
Most importantly, I'm willing to bet a majority of the people in this thread would like for e-sports to be respected as a profession and this is not a correct step towards it.
If it were a bunch of news anchors, or pundits for major broadcasting companies, or commentators of any other sport, or whatever, that released some video to the world of them making juvenile sex jokes and whatnot, they would be fired the very next day. This is not an opinion, this is incontrovertible fact about the importance of image and professionalism in the world.
Now, the real debate is whether you think said importance is needed or not for SC2, whether because 1. you think it's just a party/game and people need to lighten up or whatever similar reason, or 2. you think it's just as important as in any other career because we're all about making esports be taken seriously. Hence the schism.
I personally am with #2 here, having esports be taken seriously, which requires a certain level of professionalism from everyone involved, can only be good for everyone involved with esports. Or put it this way, these guys act more mature and less drunken frat boy, their audience gets bigger. Their audience gets bigger, their sponsors get bigger. Their sponsors get bigger, their paycheck gets bigger. Win-win for everyone.
On November 09 2010 05:50 Schamus wrote: I believe it was after the email scandal of Wallstreet went out when someone made the analogy of
"Act as if any of your actions will be headlines tomorrow." - This was in regards to workplace conduct, but does it follow suit in the argument here too because djWheat is a quasi-celebrity?
This. If eSports wants to be considered a legitimate sport, they should act like a legitimate sport. That includes commenators and after parties. When was the last time you saw a BROADCASTED after party for football or baseball and they acted like that, and it was considered appropriate.
On November 09 2010 05:46 fellcrow wrote: *frustration* People are gonna think that because it is aired on a stream, and not television, it shouldn't be held to the same standards. But the problem for me is, if you want this on national television (which is what everyone wants e-sports to accomplish in America) shouldn't we act like it is on national television at all times and treat it like a true sport, with a diverse fan base. And I don't see how he said, "We're all adults here." or whatever, when there is a huge fan base in younger kids.
Honestly, no. I want them to act like they're on national television when they're doing official events, as they are when they're casting MLG or any other event. I also enjoy the opportunity to get to know them more as people, where they're allowed to act as they would normally without people complaining about every little thing. Do you honestly think anyone is going to pay attention to this cast when they're looking for potential casters instead of Day[9] and DjWHEAT's extensive experience?
The last 20-30 minutes with interviews with the Liquid team and JP were so totally worth staying up too late and getting next to no sleep for work. (Not knocking on the other folks interviewed because they were great too.)
I hope the Lo3 folks keep rocking it out because currently that is what E-sports in North America is, it's the wild west of gaming. Anyone can start up a stream/youtube channel and produce content, and for that reason I love it. As soon as there is some "pro-gaming" entity similar to KESPA (with pro-gaming licenses and such) to discipline folks, yeah, they would have to watch what they say, BUT I would prefer that not to happen.
We get people who are not in it for the money (ala the interview with the guy from Lazarus Gaming), and those people are doing it for love, and I would much prefer someone doing something they love (and being truly human) than someone in it for potential money and fame.
PS: Written after very little sleep and an unintended 12 hour shift at work, so forgive the rambling. Lo3, thanks for inviting me to the party even if I could not attend it.
Edit: /sarcasm on I guess we should try and delete all links to this video then...
On November 09 2010 05:51 Krigwin wrote: If it were a bunch of news anchors, or pundits for major broadcasting companies, or commentators of any other sport, or whatever, that released some video to the world of them making juvenile sex jokes and whatnot, they would be fired the very next day. This is not an opinion, this is incontrovertible fact about the importance of image and professionalism in the world.
Now, the real debate is whether you think said importance is needed or not for SC2, whether because 1. you think it's just a party/game and people need to lighten up or whatever similar reason, or 2. you think it's just as important as in any other career because we're all about making esports be taken seriously. Hence the schism.
I personally am with #2 here, having esports be taken seriously, which requires a certain level of professionalism from everyone involved, can only be good for everyone involved with esports. Or put it this way, these guys act more mature and less drunken frat boy, their audience gets bigger. Their audience gets bigger, their sponsors get bigger. Their sponsors get bigger, their paycheck gets bigger. Win-win for everyone.
Precisely.
"It's just a game" isn't exactly something we're comfortable accepting. Imagine a large company starts to sponsor something similar in size to the GSL in America and one of those guys applies. The employer pulls up that public video. Good luck explaining that one. "We were drunk, just having fun!"
I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
On November 08 2010 23:48 Anselm wrote: However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole.
Quoting this because it needs to be re-read by the majority of posters in this topic.
TC didn't say anything about drinking, general stupidity, or anything along those lines. His problem was directly with jokes that bordered on sexual harassment.
But for some reason, the topic has been derailed into "baseball players drink, so drinking is fine, you're wrong OP" when that isn't what the post is about.
TC raises a valid point, and it should be addressed. The US has specific laws about sexual harassment, and professional casters in a non-professional setting still need to abide by them, especially when the cameras and mics are on.
On November 09 2010 05:50 Schamus wrote: I believe it was after the email scandal of Wallstreet went out when someone made the analogy of
"Act as if any of your actions will be headlines tomorrow." - This was in regards to workplace conduct, but does it follow suit in the argument here too because djWheat is a quasi-celebrity?
Again, just to comment on where the thread is turning. I do not think that in any way, shape, or form that any specific line was crossed especially by Wheat who was kind enough to post a reply. My concern is just that in the environment they were in, some of the comments made could very quickly have escalated into something that was definitely out of bounds. Again, I think the camera was turned off in time (though, obviously I don't know what happened after it turned off) and that the timing of the comments made made me a little concerned.
Pretty much what I expected from the illustrious TL forums - 14yr old boys acting like 12yr old boys. To all of you that are dismissing this as nothing, you're wrong. To those of you that think it's acceptable ... you're just wrong.
If e-sports is going to go professional it behoves everyone involved to, wait for it, be professional! You may not be offended, 14yr old TL forum-goer, but when you grow up you'll see that in the real world you have to act with a certain level of self-restraint and class, and if you can't then you shouldn't drink on a live stream with the entire community watching.
This is the internet - but that doesn't mean every site has to be goatse. It really comes down to this: will that sort of behaviour make major advertisers less likely to sponsor further tournaments and teams? Absolutely.
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote: I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
Do you post photos of yourself drinking and partying on facebook? Would you want a video of you doing a kegstand in a doctor's outfit posted? You're allowed to unwind all you want, but do it in private.
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote: I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
You don't have to act the same in public as in private, but a STREAM is not private. When they turned the camera off, they could act however they wanted. But with that stream running, they need to be professional. End of story.
All I have to say is that if E-Sports 'succeeding' means the loss of events like this where we get to see people being themselves, then I have no desire to see this 'success'.
On November 09 2010 05:55 iammaru wrote: Pretty much what I expected from the illustrious TL forums - 14yr old boys acting like 12yr old boys. To all of you that are dismissing this as nothing, you're wrong. To those of you that think it's acceptable ... you're just wrong.
If e-sports is going to go professional it behoves everyone involved to, wait for it, be professional! You may not be offended, 14yr old TL forum-goer, but when you grow up you'll see that in the real world you have to act with a certain level of self-restraint and class, and if you can't then you shouldn't drink on a live stream with the entire community watching.
This is the internet - but that doesn't mean every site has to be goatse. It really comes down to this: will that sort of behaviour make major advertisers less likely to sponsor further tournaments and teams? Absolutely.
If that's your definition of "professionalism" then I'll try my hardest to prevent e-sports from becoming anything near "professional".
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote: I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
......
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
Sir,
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
On November 09 2010 05:51 Krigwin wrote: If it were a bunch of news anchors, or pundits for major broadcasting companies, or commentators of any other sport, or whatever, that released some video to the world of them making juvenile sex jokes and whatnot, they would be fired the very next day. This is not an opinion, this is incontrovertible fact about the importance of image and professionalism in the world.
Now, the real debate is whether you think said importance is needed or not for SC2, whether because 1. you think it's just a party/game and people need to lighten up or whatever similar reason, or 2. you think it's just as important as in any other career because we're all about making esports be taken seriously. Hence the schism.
I personally am with #2 here, having esports be taken seriously, which requires a certain level of professionalism from everyone involved, can only be good for everyone involved with esports. Or put it this way, these guys act more mature and less drunken frat boy, their audience gets bigger. Their audience gets bigger, their sponsors get bigger. Their sponsors get bigger, their paycheck gets bigger. Win-win for everyone.
but dont you see that as a problem? that is the way things are ill agree with you. thats how important it is in the professional world, but isnt that in itself what is so wrong? its an archaic conservative attitude that completely takes the soul out of everything it touches. sure it works for the older generation but i think the younger generation is starting to see through it and we can only hope for change to come in the near future.
On November 09 2010 05:57 Myles wrote: All I have to say is that if E-Sports 'succeeding' means the loss of events like this where we get to see people being themselves, then I have no desire to see this 'success'.
Nobody said they shouldn't have streams like that at all.
On November 08 2010 23:48 Anselm wrote: However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole.
Quoting this because it needs to be re-read by the majority of posters in this topic.
TC didn't say anything about drinking, general stupidity, or anything along those lines. His problem was directly with jokes that bordered on sexual harassment.
But for some reason, the topic has been derailed into "baseball players drink, so drinking is fine, you're wrong OP" when that isn't what the post is about.
TC raises a valid point, and it should be addressed. The US has specific laws about sexual harassment, and professional casters in a non-professional setting still need to abide by them, especially when the cameras and mics are on.
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote: I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
Professionalism means different things to different professions. Being a doctor has nothing to do with being a performer, a celebrity, or a broadcaster -- different dynamics and different etiquette.
You can do whatever you want to do here and while playing because you're not a professional. Similarly, I can say whatever the hell I want to say and wear whatever I want to wear when I'm at the doctor's office. This conversation is only about people looking to grow gaming's viability as a career path.
Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows.
I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever.
Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T.
PS. 3000th post. PS2. Poster below me you're dumb .
On November 09 2010 06:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows.
And somehow you can't find a way to have fun or see sunlight WITHOUT acting like an obnoxious frat boy? Maybe I'm just weird, but I plenty of fun without partying and I don't see why people use the two terms as if they were synonymous.
On November 09 2010 06:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows.
This might be the best straw-man argument of the entire thread. Nobody's saying they can't have fun or personalities or emotions. The only thing people are cautioning against is stuff that no collective group of people (aside from shock jocks and shock comedians) gets away with in a professional setting.
Do you post photos of yourself drinking and partying on facebook? Would you want a video of you doing a kegstand in a doctor's outfit posted? You're allowed to unwind all you want, but do it in private.
I do, as a matter of fact, because those photos depict me in a clearly private setting where I do things with a group of young people that enjoy doing those things with me. Nothing I posted ever crossed boundary of legality, and what I do as a private person should never affect what I do as a public individual.
I just want to reiterate the fact that this is not a public broadcast. I am a reasonable savvy and interested person in SC2 theme, and I have never heard of this stream. You need to go out of your way to watch this (You can find porn easier than this, I promise), this isn't TV where you flip on a switch and be subjected to unwanted information.
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
On November 09 2010 05:57 Myles wrote: All I have to say is that if E-Sports 'succeeding' means the loss of events like this where we get to see people being themselves, then I have no desire to see this 'success'.
Nobody said they shouldn't have streams like that at all.
On November 08 2010 23:48 Anselm wrote: However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole.
Quoting this because it needs to be re-read by the majority of posters in this topic.
TC didn't say anything about drinking, general stupidity, or anything along those lines. His problem was directly with jokes that bordered on sexual harassment.
But for some reason, the topic has been derailed into "baseball players drink, so drinking is fine, you're wrong OP" when that isn't what the post is about.
TC raises a valid point, and it should be addressed. The US has specific laws about sexual harassment, and professional casters in a non-professional setting still need to abide by them, especially when the cameras and mics are on.
People make 'inappropriate' comments all the time. To say that talking about stuff in the way he did constitutes sexual harassment is ridiculous.
On November 09 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote: I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever.
Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T.
PS. 3000th post. PS2. Poster below me you're dumb .
Lol true, people in fraternities tend to be more social, and it leads to connections and networking leading to better jobs and higher paying salaries. But when was the last time you saw the owner of Dell or another huge company stream himself getting drunk. So the owners of these huge companies that are so successful probably were frat boys at sometime in there life, but they aren't broadcasting it, can you really not see the difference between a) being a "frat boy" in your private life and acting professional on camera vs b) being a "frat boy" on camera, in the public eye.
I just want to reiterate the fact that this is not a public broadcast. I am a reasonable savvy and interested person in SC2 theme, and I have never heard of this stream. You need to go out of your way to watch this...
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
As a moderator of chat channels in several streams (i even had powers on cat-in-a-box durring the event), i have to point out these key aspects, its a PRIVATE channel, sort of how this forum is a PRIVATE forum, meaning you must adhere to the rules provided, and accept its atmosphere. The show was regulated by the casters to a target audience they have always catered to, if you cannot accept this, then move on.
On November 09 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote: I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever.
Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T.
PS. 3000th post. PS2. Poster below me you're dumb .
It actually depends a lot on the fraternity as well as specific chapter. There are certainly fraternities that are about serious networking, business relationships, etc. Then there are fraternities that are basically for idiots that can't seem to get out of the college partying mentality. Generally when people blast frat boys, they're talking about the latter. Also success due to having the right connections is not the issue at hand. We're talking about behavior in public. Frats, despite their parties, generally don't stream that behavior live across the internet for everyone to see because they're smart enough to know that they need to at least maintain their image even if we may all know that that is not what they're like at all behind closed doors.
On November 09 2010 06:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows.
This might be the best straw-man argument of the entire thread. Nobody's saying they can't have fun or personalities or emotions. The only thing people are cautioning against is stuff that no collective group of people (aside from shock jocks and shock comedians) gets away with in a professional setting.
I'd say you're crazy if that's what you think. The only difference is you happened to watch one last night live instead of hearing about it on the news. How many times do you hear about incidents of professional athletes out at strip clubs or their entourage being douche bags? Those are only the incidents, not the common occurrence when things go smoothly while they're out having fun.
On another note, professionalism in e-sports isn't there yet. It's not, so we shouldn't be pretending it is. We shouldn't pretend these guys have to put on suits, hold press conferences, and abide by a code of ethics in their everyday life that is any different than a normal person. In the future, if the growth ever comes, the uptight brigade might have to take over and ruin the human element to e-sports. It might be inevitable, but let's not pretend we have to prepare for something that, at the moment, is still a ways off.
You didn't want the camera on. Well, it was. I'll maintain until the end of time that these sort of functions are good since no serious line was crossed. Also, the fact that this is even getting any attention shows how misplaced people's priorities are if they're worried about e-sport's growth.
I'd rather see events like this then have MLG with 1 million dollar prize pools
The second everyone starts giving korean interview responses and some old guy casts the games is the second "ESPORTS" becomes not worth caring about. Also I don't see how "acting professional" creates a professional scene. People want to see characters, behind the scenes, human people. SOTG has so many listeners and downloads purely because of the characters and casual attitudes.
To come on teamliquid and write some open letter espousing how ESPORTS needs to be run like some church bible study group is ridiculous. The more pressing issues are MLG ruleset, lan capability, etc, not humans acting like humans. That was seriously a very tame and pretty respectful party, you need to get out more.
I thought last night's show was fantastic. I've been watching Starcraft 2 matches since the beginning of the year but didn't really care about (the vast majority of) the players involved until recently. Listening to 'State of the Game' every week did a lot to change that and I think it would be a real shame if all the fun was sucked out of it in an attempt to be more professional.
I just want to reiterate the fact that this is not a public broadcast. I am a reasonable savvy and interested person in SC2 theme, and I have never heard of this stream. You need to go out of your way to watch this...
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
As a moderator of chat channels in several streams (i even had powers on cat-in-a-box durring the event), i have to point out these key aspects, its a PRIVATE channel, sort of how this forum is a PRIVATE forum, meaning you must adhere to the rules provided, and accept its atmosphere. The show was regulated by the casters to a target audience they have always catered to, if you cannot accept this, then move on.
Yup pretty much. Everyone new to LO3 gets either offended or thinks the same way the OP does but quite frankly they have always been like this and they will never change because the would not do it at all if that has to be the case. It's a take it or leave it situation here, no negotiations.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's cut the ferocious straw-manning and name-calling here.
Let's be clear here - no one is saying these guys should transform overnight into pasty malnourished nerds who live in the basement and only brave the dangers of sunlight for their careers whose entire lives revolve around Starcraft 2. That's not what we're saying at all. The point we're trying to make is about professionalism.
You can be a drunken party guy who loves having fun and getting blowjobs - in fact if that's your life I envy you - but it's important to not give off that image. Even if you're that guy, it's important to give off the image that you're a strictly business guy who can approach every job and task you're given with cleanliness and meticulous efficiency - that's what professionalism is. I realize we might have a lot of high-school/college-age kids in here who've never had a real career before, so I gotta really stress this point. It doesn't matter what kind of person you are in private, you can be a serial killer who butchers prostitutes, it matters what kind of image you cultivate for yourself, and no matter the career it's important to mastercraft an image of utter professionalism.
The reasons for this are numerous. The most important reasons for the sake of this discussion are 1. it helps esports grow and be taken more seriously, and 2. it helps these guys and their careers. If/when esports grows and these guys make it into their careers, what do you think is going to help them more - having an image of utter professionalism and care about their work, or some video of them making jokes about blowjobs?
On November 09 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote: I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever.
Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T.
Now, I'm sure even you realize how this is a straw man that has nothing to do with this debate, but just for the sake of anyone who might be reading this, there is a huge difference between "drunken frat boy" and "guy who is in a frat", and it's all about image, as I've just stated.
I can't understand why anyone would have an issue with what someone says at an afterparty. The stream was provided so everyone could have a glimpse of the camaraderie that exists in the NA gaming scene.
If anyone was offended by any statements made at the after party, you have the option to dislike the person who made those comments, not any group or organization as a whole.
If you want professionalism, don't tune into a stream for an after party. I don't know why anyone would expect professionalism at a PARTY with ALCOHOL at a HOTEL. I mean honestly, haven't any of you who are griping had drinks in a hotel room with a ton of people? These sorts of off the cuff remarks are made all the time.
Regardless of the fact that it was being streamed, the stream was not set up to a be a professional representation of e-sports or an organization. It was set up so you could watch and participate, albeit remotely, with the NA scene as they decompressed after a hugely successful and stressful event.
It seems that most of those who are disappointed in the content on this afterparty decompression web-stream are putting it into a context in which it never was, it doesn't matter whether or not its publicly available.
Example: I make a youtube vlog complaining about my weekend, and make reference to several quite personal events, maybe even sexual ones. If my boss happens upon this video, is my job in jeopardy because of these comments that are entirely unrelated to my job? Does he have any grounds for filing for sexual harassment or any other reason to dismiss me from my position?
I would think not, as its outside the scope of what duties my job entails, and I am absolved of the responsibilities of the workplace while I am on my own free time. I am not representing my company or workplace on that youtube video, even if its public.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
Why is it that no one mentions the massive F-bombs from Jinro, HuK and all the other players. PainUser saying that the viewer that called him out is probably just a guy masturbating in his basement and then doing the jerking with his hands.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
Answer the question.
Lol yes I have been to a party. But what does people going to parties have to do with the public image of a sport we all want to thrive?
On November 09 2010 06:13 dacthehork wrote: I'd rather see events like this then have MLG with 1 million dollar prize pools
The second everyone starts giving korean interview responses and some old guy casts the games is the second "ESPORTS" becomes not worth caring about.
Lol...almost anybody else would rather have the 1 million dollar prize pool. Especially if you're competing like Idra, jinro, tlo, etc
Not really, I'm sure a lot of people if given the choice of huge prize pools, or more "characters" and personality in the community, would take the latter. It's not like any of us are going to receive any of that prize money.
Would you rather have a good community and low "ESPORTS" bucks or a boring restrained community with everyone giving the exact same responses in every interview about working hard and how skilled everyone is.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
No one is enraged. People are concerned about the way community/esports representatives are carrying themselves because we care about said community and want to see it thrive as sport (with all of the sponsorship, coverage, etc that go along with that).
Also, your question makes you sound like a 19 year old bro; honestly, it's just awful. Cool, bro, you party and get laid, right? Awesome. It gets a lot better when you don't have to talk about it -- give it a couple years.
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
For some reason the hubbub over the Real ID on the Battle.net forums comes to mind while reading responses to this thread. "OMG what if an employer googles me and finds out I play SC2?!!?" This is really one and the same.
I'm a proponent of "professionalism" when it comes to producing events like MLG, etc. I want the scene to grow and bringing in major sponsorship money should be what we all want. When in any type of public arena Day, Wheat, and JP represent MLG whether or not they are specifically on a MLG stream at that time. For all intents and purposes, they are the face of SC2 at MLG.
With that being said, I think Wheat does a nice job straddling the line. Streams like this and the shows he produces on his dime tend to be a little off color, but rarely to the point of being totally inappropriate. One way this particular stream can help the scene is by showing, "Hey these events are a lot of fun, you should come out and see them live!". While he's on an event stream he censors himself well. At this point in the development of the game I err on the side of content > no content. There also is going to come a point that the players need to realize when the camera/mic is on it's time to represent your sponsors in the best way possible. You can have a strong opinion/be funny without being crass.
Also, in order to bring in new money the community needs to show that advertising at these events is valuable for companies. Not only does this mean professionally produced content but a fan base that's willing to buy products that are advertised at these events. That means buying Dr. Pepper, etc. and making sure the company knows that you're spending that money because they support competitive gaming. It's a large reason that NASCAR brings in the big advertising dollars.
Basically, i think as long as you can feel proud of the content you are producing (not just now but 10 years from now) then you're fine. If that little angel on your shoulder is whispering in your ear that you may regret this in the future, it may be time to tone it down.
On November 09 2010 05:49 echobong wrote: OP's post makes me want to stop reading posts.
Because it was articulate, provocative and tastefully worded? Yeah tl forums need a lot less of that.
Yeah, exactly that. What I'd really like to see instead is more smarmy smart alec one-line replies. And between your post and mine I think we got that covered
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
I honestly don't think anyone is "enraged" by this... "Concerned" would probably be a better word to describe it. Obviously people have different ideas of what they think eSports should be. There are those that would prefer it to be more professional akin to the MLB or something and there are others that feel that it should be kept with more of a "grassroots" type of feel to preserve its soul or identity. I think you can make good arguments for both, but my question really is regardless of what they want eSports to be, why is it somehow better to see people behave like this? And why do they NEED to behave like this? Watching people get drunk on a video stream is somehow considered, "Getting to know them?" It's nothing of the sort... Really it's just unnecessary and there's a lot more potential for negative effects than positive so I don't understand why someone would do this to begin with.
People should read more of the OPs post before blindly replying.
On November 09 2010 00:09 Anselm wrote: All I'm talking about is the last minute or two of the cast. Everything up to that point, I thought was awesome. I suspect the cameras were turned off just in time though.
Specifically he's complaining that slasher acted like a douche at the end of the stream. Drinking, public image, whatever,etc, is irrelevant. The bottom line is slasher was 'out of line'. Personally I think he's just annoying.
On November 09 2010 06:13 dacthehork wrote: I'd rather see events like this then have MLG with 1 million dollar prize pools
The second everyone starts giving korean interview responses and some old guy casts the games is the second "ESPORTS" becomes not worth caring about.
Lol...almost anybody else would rather have the 1 million dollar prize pool. Especially if you're competing like Idra, jinro, tlo, etc
Not really, I'm sure a lot of people if given the choice of huge prize pools, or more "characters" and personality in the community, would take the latter. It's not like any of us are going to receive any of that prize money.
Would you rather have a good community and low "ESPORTS" bucks or a boring restrained community with everyone giving the exact same responses in every interview about working hard and how skilled everyone is.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
Answer the question.
Lol yes I have been to a party. But what does people going to parties have to do with the public image of a sport we all want to thrive?
The public image of a professional sport, you have murderers, rapists, and people with 20 children to different moms. You have extremely cocky multimillionaires complaining about not making even more.
To say that "ESPORTS" needs to become this spotfree image is ridiculous. IdrA for instance has actually increased the popularity of people watching SC2 a lot simply by being BM. Characters and personalities are very good for viewership and growth. Check out state of the game before incontrol came on and it was boring as heck. If anything anti social and a nerdy image hurts it far more than people at a party messing around.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
And again many of us are arguing that this stream has almost nothing to do with the success or failure of esports, and that this stream is in no way comparable to a televised sporting event. If they said some of these things on MLG's stream it would be different, but this was a private event that we were able to take part in thanks to DjWheat's hard work. Stop equating the two.
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. As long as they are not doing drugs or get way drunk till the point where they start kissing random people and have public sex, they are safe.
Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US.
off-topic, is annalist actually how it's spelled? I had no idea it just looks so weird rofl but spellchecker isn't giving it a red line or anything just looks so weird o.o
I'm a bit dissapointed in OP for making a thread about being quasi-offended by party banter. It leads me to conclude you're living an extremely sheltered life and don't know what happens at actual parties.
It's pretty sad that Marcus might find this thread and find someone like you critizing his cast for such a silly reason, while they're taking three hours out of their personal life to show us how things function behind the eSports scenes. We get to see how these people really are in an informal environment and you complain that they're not following TV etiquette. How people act when they're doing an official cast is not an indication of how they behave in real life, take of your pink glasses.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
No one is enraged. People are concerned about the way community/esports representatives are carrying themselves because we care about said community and want to see it thrive as sport (with all of the sponsorship, coverage, etc that go along with that).
Also, your question makes you sound like a 19 year old bro; honestly, it's just awful. Cool, bro, you party and get laid, right? Awesome. It gets a lot better when you don't have to talk about it -- give it a couple years.
Seeing as you want to write me off as some bro then actually validate your argument, I'm going to assume most of the anger over this is some kind of Freudian hate of all those cool party kids you never got to hang out with. Tell me about your mother.
Nobody sane wants to see video games become "professional". Popular? Sure. But professional video gaming is a cause I can really only see people getting behind that don't get out much.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
Answer the question.
Lol yes I have been to a party. But what does people going to parties have to do with the public image of a sport we all want to thrive?
The public image of a professional sport, you have murderers, rapists, and people with 20 children to different moms. You have extremely cocky multimillionaires complaining about not making even more.
To say that "ESPORTS" needs to become this spotfree image is ridiculous. IdrA for instance has actually increased the popularity of people watching SC2 a lot simply by being BM. Characters and personalities are very good for viewership and growth. Check out state of the game before incontrol came on and it was boring as heck. If anything anti social and a nerdy image hurts it far more than people at a party messing around.
Tell me, why can't esports be a spot-free friendly competitive environment? Is there something wrong with doing good? Oh but I forgot, being a bunch of rabid dogs is the best way to promote our image to the world. Yeah that'll really go over well.
The only difference is you happened to watch one last night live instead of hearing about it on the news.
You're right. That is the difference.
The uptight brigade might have to take over and ruin the human element to e-sports.
Indirectly, that's exactly what every pro-gamer and fan of pro-gaming wants because the "uptight brigade" are the ones who control the big money. Also, don't be so dramatic. Minimal standards of conduct are not going to ruin the human element to esports.
You didn't want the camera on.
Totally false. I watched every minute. Glad I did, and I have no complaints.
Also, the fact that this is even getting any attention shows how misplaced people's priorities are if they're worried about e-sport's growth.
I'm not worried. I'm interested; I'd like to see people like Tyler and Day[9] and DJ Wheat have long and lucrative careers riding a wave of insane growth of esports. If you don't care about that, why are you in this thread?
I respect the OP's position as his opinion but I disagree with it. I think the world is overly PC about everything because we as humans have bread too many emotional wrecks that can't handle anything and get upset easily over the stupidest shit that has nothing to do with them. Like the kids in San Francisco that can't get a toy with their happy meal because the toy encourages them to eat the same shit already on the menu. I guess toys in food make kids fat.
Anyway the way I see it was that you were indirectly invited via web stream to an after party you wouldn't otherwise have been able to attend if they didn't turn a camera on. You got some good content out of it and here is the sole person that must come and complain because they went out of their way to watch a stream knowing people were drinking and partying on it. Next time you see a party broadcast on the internet don't watch it because people relaxing and having a good time offends you.
On November 09 2010 06:23 GenoZStriker wrote: I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US.
Omg nailed it right on the head. seriously you quoted me earlier, and ive been waiting for a post like this, cause more truth can never be said again.bravo.
On November 09 2010 06:26 retro-noob wrote: I'm not worried. I'm interested; I'd like to see people like Tyler and Day[9] and DJ Wheat have long and lucrative careers riding a wave of insane growth of esports. If you don't care about that, why are you in this thread?
Day9's not afraid to let the "bad words" fly on his daily. Maybe we should write an open letter for that too.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
Answer the question.
Lol yes I have been to a party. But what does people going to parties have to do with the public image of a sport we all want to thrive?
The public image of a professional sport, you have murderers, rapists, and people with 20 children to different moms. You have extremely cocky multimillionaires complaining about not making even more.
To say that "ESPORTS" needs to become this spotfree image is ridiculous. IdrA for instance has actually increased the popularity of people watching SC2 a lot simply by being BM. Characters and personalities are very good for viewership and growth. Check out state of the game before incontrol came on and it was boring as heck. If anything anti social and a nerdy image hurts it far more than people at a party messing around.
Tell me, why can't esports be a spot-free friendly competitive environment? Is there something wrong with doing good? Oh but I forgot, being a bunch of rabid dogs is the best way to promote our image to the world. Yeah that'll really go over well.
Only Slasher was being a rabid dog, but that's just Slasher. His views and opinions do not represent those of the entire eSports community.
"On another note, professionalism in e-sports isn't there yet. It's not, so we shouldn't be pretending it is. We shouldn't pretend these guys have to put on suits, hold press conferences, and abide by a code of ethics in their everyday life that is any different than a normal person. In the future, if the growth ever comes, the uptight brigade might have to take over and ruin the human element to e-sports. It might be inevitable, but let's not pretend we have to prepare for something that, at the moment, is still a ways off." -Ilovebacon
Esports isn't professional so the people involved shouldn't act professional so esports isn't professional so the people don't act professional so espor ... ... see?
"As a moderator of chat channels in several streams (i even had powers on cat-in-a-box durring the event), i have to point out these key aspects, its a PRIVATE channel, sort of how this forum is a PRIVATE forum, meaning you must adhere to the rules provided, and accept its atmosphere. The show was regulated by the casters to a target audience they have always catered to, if you cannot accept this, then move on." -Blademage
Why so defensive? Whether it's truly a "private" channel is dubious, so I'll let that slide - but, basically, for all intents and purposes, it's not really. Ok, yeah the cast was supposedly regulated by the casters, but I think that the issue people are having is that the cast wasn't regulated well/at all. Finally, about your advice to "move on", people with the smallest bit of foresight are concerned about esports never "moving on" if major douchbag/unprofessional behaviour gets featured on stream.
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. As long as they are not doing drugs or get way drunk till the point where they start kissing random people and have public sex, they are safe.
Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US.
So if you were one of these companies trying to get people to buy your product, would you rather sponsor the person who shows up to each event on time, has a good standing with the audience, is friendly and practices as they should, or some drunk kid who just so happens to be good at the game? I mean, surely you actually want to sell your product.
imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. As long as they are not doing drugs or get way drunk till the point where they start kissing random people and have public sex, they are safe.
Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US.
So if you were one of these companies trying to get people to buy your product, would you rather sponsor the person who shows up to each event on time, has a good standing with the audience, is friendly and practices as they should, or some drunk kid who just so happens to be good at the game? I mean, surely you actually want to sell your product.
The one who wins more and/or draws a bigger crowd.
Idra's got a pretty respectable fanbase mostly due to BM/winrate.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
Answer the question.
Lol yes I have been to a party. But what does people going to parties have to do with the public image of a sport we all want to thrive?
The public image of a professional sport, you have murderers, rapists, and people with 20 children to different moms. You have extremely cocky multimillionaires complaining about not making even more.
To say that "ESPORTS" needs to become this spotfree image is ridiculous. IdrA for instance has actually increased the popularity of people watching SC2 a lot simply by being BM. Characters and personalities are very good for viewership and growth. Check out state of the game before incontrol came on and it was boring as heck. If anything anti social and a nerdy image hurts it far more than people at a party messing around.
Tell me, why can't esports be a spot-free friendly competitive environment? Is there something wrong with doing good? Oh but I forgot, being a bunch of rabid dogs is the best way to promote our image to the world. Yeah that'll really go over well.
Only Slasher was being a rabid dog, but that's just Slasher. His views and opinions do not represent those of the entire eSports community.
Maybe not to us, because we know he's not like the average pro. But tell me, when you hear about a celebrity do you hear about the ones who are behaving and acting normal or the ones who are acting way out of line?
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc.
There's a correlation between maturity and success.
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. As long as they are not doing drugs or get way drunk till the point where they start kissing random people and have public sex, they are safe.
Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US.
So if you were one of these companies trying to get people to buy your product, would you rather sponsor the person who shows up to each event on time, has a good standing with the audience, is friendly and practices as they should, or some drunk kid who just so happens to be good at the game? I mean, surely you actually want to sell your product.
On November 09 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote: I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever.
Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T.
PS. 3000th post. PS2. Poster below me you're dumb .
It actually depends a lot on the fraternity as well as specific chapter. There are certainly fraternities that are about serious networking, business relationships, etc. Then there are fraternities that are basically for idiots that can't seem to get out of the college partying mentality. Generally when people blast frat boys, they're talking about the latter. Also success due to having the right connections is not the issue at hand. We're talking about behavior in public. Frats, despite their parties, generally don't stream that behavior live across the internet for everyone to see because they're smart enough to know that they need to at least maintain their image even if we may all know that that is not what they're like at all behind closed doors.
It's typically the people who are having the massive college fraternity party system that still do make it up the ranks, even if it doesn't seem so. That guy that gets plastered 4 days a week is often also the guy that can handle his shit and get a 3.5+ GPA and beat out the nerdy kid who studies nonstop. I can say this from witnessing it from a majority of the people and actually knowing everyone's GPAs (I'm Scholarship Chairman in my frat), and going to god knows how many of those honorary shit that gives out recognition for people doing things in the community. I don't know about you guys, but I can rage 4 days of the week, and simultaneously pull out a 4.0 GPA most quarters, attend multiple philanthropies each week, attend accounting association meetings, attend honor society meetings, throw study hours, etc. And that is the typical life of a frat guy. Partying a lot, but at the same time just doing everything, as opposed to the typical college student who finds an unnecessarily exorbitant amount of time on his hands.
PS. I'm at the pub right now and just finished a pitcher so excuse me for my nonsensical determination to prove random people wrong about frats.
On November 09 2010 06:26 Offhand wrote: Seeing as you want to write me off as some bro then actually validate your argument, I'm going to assume most of the anger over this is some kind of Freudian hate of all those cool party kids you never got to hang out with. Tell me about your mother.
Nobody sane wants to see video games become "professional". Popular? Sure. But professional video gaming is a cause I can really only see people getting behind that don't get out much
You're just derailing the thread at this point with your strawcastles that have something to do with nerds being jealous of the "cool" party gods or whatever other nonsense and it pains me to participate in this, but how on earth did you work "professional" into a negative adjective?
Since we're all about using ad hominem attacks here to substantiate straw man arguments that don't even address the main point of the thread, what exactly do you do for a living? What is your career?
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. As long as they are not doing drugs or get way drunk till the point where they start kissing random people and have public sex, they are safe.
Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US.
So if you were one of these companies trying to get people to buy your product, would you rather sponsor the person who shows up to each event on time, has a good standing with the audience, is friendly and practices as they should, or some drunk kid who just so happens to be good at the game? I mean, surely you actually want to sell your product.
I'll take both since my product will sell regardless if the player is good at the game. Also my kid who gets drunk after the tournament can also be good standing with the audience and friendly and practices as he should and is good at the game.
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
No one is enraged. People are concerned about the way community/esports representatives are carrying themselves because we care about said community and want to see it thrive as sport (with all of the sponsorship, coverage, etc that go along with that).
Also, your question makes you sound like a 19 year old bro; honestly, it's just awful. Cool, bro, you party and get laid, right? Awesome. It gets a lot better when you don't have to talk about it -- give it a couple years.
Seeing as you want to write me off as some bro then actually validate your argument, I'm going to assume most of the anger over this is some kind of Freudian hate of all those cool party kids you never got to hang out with. Tell me about your mother.
Nobody sane wants to see video games become "professional". Popular? Sure. But professional video gaming is a cause I can really only see people getting behind that don't get out much.
Saying no one wants video games to become professional is to generalize and stereotype people. I for one would very much want Esports to become professional and several others in this thread has clearly pointed out the same.
On November 09 2010 06:26 retro-noob wrote: I'm not worried. I'm interested; I'd like to see people like Tyler and Day[9] and DJ Wheat have long and lucrative careers riding a wave of insane growth of esports. If you don't care about that, why are you in this thread?
Day9's not afraid to let the "bad words" fly on his daily. Maybe we should write an open letter for that too.
That depends on his goals, doesn't it? If he wants more young kids toning it, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll watch it either way, but I won't recommend it to my youngest brother as it is now.
Reasonable people offer opinions in a polite way in case it might be helpful or interesting. There's usually nothing wrong with that.
On November 09 2010 06:16 Krigwin wrote: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's cut the ferocious straw-manning and name-calling here.
Let's be clear here - no one is saying these guys should transform overnight into pasty malnourished nerds who live in the basement and only brave the dangers of sunlight for their careers whose entire lives revolve around Starcraft 2. That's not what we're saying at all. The point we're trying to make is about professionalism.
You can be a drunken party guy who loves having fun and getting blowjobs - in fact if that's your life I envy you - but it's important to not give off that image. Even if you're that guy, it's important to give off the image that you're a strictly business guy who can approach every job and task you're given with cleanliness and meticulous efficiency - that's what professionalism is. I realize we might have a lot of high-school/college-age kids in here who've never had a real career before, so I gotta really stress this point. It doesn't matter what kind of person you are in private, you can be a serial killer who butchers prostitutes, it matters what kind of image you cultivate for yourself, and no matter the career it's important to mastercraft an image of utter professionalism.
And I couldn't disagree more. People HERE aren't saying we're basement dwelling nerds... but the general public are and will. Gaming isn't accepted widely in the US by popular culture, even if it is a widely growing segment. Throwing off the common perception of professional gamers to the mainstream is one of, if not the most important aspects, of getting e-sports and gamers in general more accepted. A face and attitude of not being uptight will have a huge impact.
I'm not saying this even is what should be done in order to facilitate that change in mindset, but it does raise the issue of how to do it properly.
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
I can tell you this right now. djWHEAT, Slasher and SirScoots have jobs. Potentional sponsorship from teams? Most of the players there are sponsored and their team managers are right there drinking with them. As long as they are not doing drugs or get way drunk till the point where they start kissing random people and have public sex, they are safe.
Potential sponsor for tournaments from who? Intel, SteelSeries, Razer? Man the people who sponsor these major tournaments are people who love gaming themselves and show up to these events and meet these gamers and in fact drink with them after the events. So yeah we don't need to worry about that unless we are trying to get sponsorship from Kellogg, Nike or Toy's R US.
So if you were one of these companies trying to get people to buy your product, would you rather sponsor the person who shows up to each event on time, has a good standing with the audience, is friendly and practices as they should, or some drunk kid who just so happens to be good at the game? I mean, surely you actually want to sell your product.
The one who wins more and/or draws a bigger crowd.
Idra's got a pretty respectable fanbase mostly due to BM/winrate.
A little in game QQ is far different from acting out on a live stream which thousands of people watch.
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
if next after party djWheat decides not to give us 2 hours of interviews/content with players we otherwise would not have seen or heard from in a casual environment, I will really hate the OP and haters.
Please do another one of these at the next MLG and give a shout out to the OP in this thread.
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc.
There's a correlation between maturity and success.
Huk has raged at iCCup staff live on their stream before. Day9 is not exactly the pinnacle of maturity in his daily. DjWheat curses pretty damn often on his show. Incontrol gets in arguments all the time with strangers online and talks about them on Sotg. And yet, they're all incredibly popular.
I'd love to see E-Sports grow, but why does it need to grow into the spitting image of other sports? E-sports are still growing and finding their way, and i'm fairly confident that the scene can grow and prosper while retaining its personality.
Would you find a stream like this in regards to another sporting event? No, of course not. However it's one of the reasons I appreciate the starcraft community so much.
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
Yet you still watched it after the interviews knowing what was going on in the background. Take some personal responsibility old man. If I don't like something I see on a stream I close it.
Well for eSports to grow we need a betting scandal like what happened in Korea and have players go to jail for it. Jinro said he will be the first one involved in it
I'm actually curious about this now that I think about it.
Poll: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (35)
65%
Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (15)
28%
Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (2)
4%
Other (Specify) (2)
4%
54 total votes
Your vote: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
(Vote): Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (Vote): Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (Vote): Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (Vote): Other (Specify)
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
And yet your email has "superpooper" in it, so please try to explain that one.
On November 09 2010 06:26 retro-noob wrote: I'm not worried. I'm interested; I'd like to see people like Tyler and Day[9] and DJ Wheat have long and lucrative careers riding a wave of insane growth of esports. If you don't care about that, why are you in this thread?
Day9's not afraid to let the "bad words" fly on his daily. Maybe we should write an open letter for that too.
That depends on his goals, doesn't it? If he wants more young kids toning it, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I'll watch it either way, but I won't recommend it to my youngest brother as it is now.
Reasonable people offer opinions in a polite way in case it might be helpful or interesting. There's usually nothing wrong with that.
You do realize you could apply literally the same argument to LiveOn3? You do realize things might get said on a LIVE cast that you could disagree with?
On November 09 2010 06:26 Offhand wrote: Seeing as you want to write me off as some bro then actually validate your argument, I'm going to assume most of the anger over this is some kind of Freudian hate of all those cool party kids you never got to hang out with. Tell me about your mother.
Nobody sane wants to see video games become "professional". Popular? Sure. But professional video gaming is a cause I can really only see people getting behind that don't get out much
You're just derailing the thread at this point with your strawcastles that have something to do with nerds being jealous of the "cool" party gods or whatever other nonsense and it pains me to participate in this, but how on earth did you work "professional" into a negative adjective?
Since we're all about using ad hominem attacks here to substantiate straw man arguments that don't even address the main point of the thread, what exactly do you do for a living? What is your career?
Engineering management. Professionalism is about being dry, non-confrontational, and generally as emotionless as possible. If you've ever worked an office job, you can see how awful it is.
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
Yet you still watched it after the interviews knowing what was going on in the background. Take some personal responsibility old man.
personal responsibility?
Being easily offended, watching an after party stream, and then writing about you where offended over a very tame thing? Shocking.
MLG ruining nony's run against Pain user, 2 hours of downtime due to no lan, and extended series? no big deal.
If esports needs to grow we need bland personalities, horrible rules, and extreme downtimes when the internet goes bad.
On November 09 2010 06:38 LegendaryZ wrote: I'm actually curious about this now that I think about it.
Poll: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (35)
65%
Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (15)
28%
Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (2)
4%
Other (Specify) (2)
4%
54 total votes
Your vote: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
(Vote): Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (Vote): Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (Vote): Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (Vote): Other (Specify)
A bit unfair to say MLG is not serious. This cast had nothing to do with MLG and they are a strong force in eSports outside of Korea. Same with ESL.
OP has some valid concerns. The cast was great, I'd love to see these types of casts from future events(just like the OP) but it is something to think about and be aware of, especially when the scene is expanding.
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
And yet your email has "superpooper" in it, so please try to explain that one.
On November 09 2010 06:38 LegendaryZ wrote: I'm actually curious about this now that I think about it.
Poll: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (35)
65%
Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (15)
28%
Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (2)
4%
Other (Specify) (2)
4%
54 total votes
Your vote: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
(Vote): Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (Vote): Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (Vote): Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (Vote): Other (Specify)
A bit unfair to say MLG is not serious. This cast had nothing to do with MLG and they are a strong force in eSports outside of Korea. Same with ESL.
He means MLG is not serious when compared to some of the much more highly professional(and expensive) productions in Korea like OSL.
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc.
There's a correlation between maturity and success.
Huk has raged at iCCup staff live on their stream before. Day9 is not exactly the pinnacle of maturity in his daily. DjWheat curses pretty damn often on his show. Incontrol gets in arguments all the time with strangers online and talks about them on Sotg. And yet, they're all incredibly popular.
Being popular and successful are two different things.
That's Day9 onstage with Dustin Browder and being groom by Blizzcon.
That's Day9 being referenced in the Economist.
That's Tyler being interviewed by NPR and outlasting Huk and MLG.
That's JP working full-time for MLG.
It depends if these players want to crack jokes and appease the fanboys, or have a long career in the e-sports/ gaming industry.
Day9 is way more mature than you're giving him credit for, by the way. He knows what he can get away with, and rarely talks shit about anyone.
It seems the livid overreaction to the concerns expressed in the OP are mostly out of proportion and veering off topic. What fans the flames of conformism more? Why will a repeat of this likely not happen? Because it turned into a shitstorm in a tea cup. Who is yelling loudest?
If you think people should have fun and not worry about it, why are you here posting all worried about it?
The OP is a list of practical comments. The rest of the thread is mostly indignation. And so it goes...
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
Yet you still watched it after the interviews knowing what was going on in the background. Take some personal responsibility old man.
personal responsibility?
Being easily offended, watching an after party stream, and then writing about you where offended over a very tame thing? Shocking.
MLG ruining nony's run against Pain user, 2 hours of downtime due to no lan, and extended series? no big deal.
If esports needs to grow we need bland personalities, horrible rules, and extreme downtimes when the internet goes bad.
All i have to say about all of that is wah. Things didn't turn out how you wanted it to. Do you put this much effort into things you can control in your life?
On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote: Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
What the public expects from a televised sporint event? Good games. Good commentators. Great players.
And also a scandal here and there. Yes - the public wants scandals - there's a reason that we have different media (print & television) which entirely focuses on those scandals. No one reall actually cares about scandals - they make the sport / players more interesting. As Jason Lee put it in the GSL "Every sport needs the bad boys".
Look at Frank Ribery. A professional football (soccer for you Americans^^) player who even had sex with a minor (!!!). Afaik the lawsuit is still running, but he is still playing for his team. The sponsors also didnt kick him out.
To get esports becoming a legitimate sport? Going out to parties, getting drunk, and spread the word & love to the uninformed among us We're nowhere on a level that those "drunk party streams" matter. We have more important things to do as a community
Why is everyone offended by the blowjob jokes and not InControl's pantomimed anal rape metaphors right in the middle of the cast?
Do you think women are incapable of defending themselves against drunken trash talk, whereas people who aren't even there are fair game, cause it's just "between the guys"?
It really seems the OP is just crusading for his own personal hobby horse instead of expressing concern for the "future of e-sports", as "manner" as his post may appear to the gullible.
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
Say, I do well and become a well known physician, then a potential practice manager found out about a video of me and my friends having a good time, drinking (legally) and doing nothing illegal. I am also competing with another physician who may not be as accomplished but done nothing like what I did.
Would practice partner either hire
Person A: graduated from MGH but has a silly video of him floating around doing nothing illegal
Person B: less accomplished but got no silly videos.
I can assure you, person A will be hired. An employer care about your ability to bringing him/her revenue, not silly little videos unless those video hurt the revenue.
Now, let's take that example into E sport. If I am trying to sponsor someone, would I sponsor someone who is well loved and a huge hit in the community (but potentially have some silly, PRIVATE VIDEO showing him interviewing people and crack some lewd joke) or another person who is not as good as him? The choice is simple.
Job hiring decision depend on what one does in public life mostly, not what one does in private life, and that stream was DJ wheat's private life
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
And yet your email has "superpooper" in it, so please try to explain that one.
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc.
There's a correlation between maturity and success.
Huk has raged at iCCup staff live on their stream before. Day9 is not exactly the pinnacle of maturity in his daily. DjWheat curses pretty damn often on his show. Incontrol gets in arguments all the time with strangers online and talks about them on Sotg. And yet, they're all incredibly popular.
Being popular and successful are two different things.
That's Day9 onstage with Dustin Browder and being groom by Blizzcon.
That's Day9 being referenced in the Economist.
That's Tyler being interviewed by NPR and outlasting Huk and MLG.
That's JP working full-time for MLG.
It depends if these players want to crack jokes and appease the fanboys, or have a long career in the e-sports/ gaming industry.
Day9 is way more mature than you're giving him credit for, by the way. He knows what he can get away with, and rarely talks shit about anyone.
you do know this is the day9 talking about masturbating in an airplane and how tasteless used to masturbate in the same room as him?
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Edit:
Respectfully yours
And tell me sir, if that video got out, and you were applying for a job how many people would want to hire the man who records him and his friends getting drunk deliberately? You can't exactly go to an employer and say "Oh you have to hire me, thats my private life and it has nothing to do with what you think of me."
Same thing carries over for potential sponsorships for teams and tournaments in a game like SC2.
The amount of people here that have never been exposed to real life hurts me. Do you really think that managers of large corporations never party? Are you really so naive to think that all people just work from 9 to 5 always trying to be as politically correct as possible? Everyone that watches the video just sees people blowing off steam after a succesful tournament, there's no people drunkenly beating each other up, insulting each other, no public fornication. It's in fact people drinking a beer and having fun together.
It really boggles my mind that there are people so brainwashed to think that this is abnormal behaviour. Heosat, the "The Little App Factory" manager was watching the stream just like the rest of us. I doubt he's going to disband the team because they're acting like humans.
Pull the stick out of your asses and live a little.
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
On November 09 2010 05:15 Monarch.StarCrack wrote: Anselm, you might have had good intentions by writing this post, but people like you are the reason video games have ratings and the supreme court has to hear cases about "violent" video games being on the same level as pornography. Two things I happen to know a lot about.
First of all, what's wrong with ratings? Secondly, I think the OP has a point so far as pointing out that the way you behave on camera as a public figure not only have an impact on you, but the industry as a whole. People don't take eSports seriously because they see the industry being comprised of a bunch of vulgar, low-clas, immature kids and broadcasts like this really only enforce that kind of image. Of course one person and/or one broadcast isn't going to discredit the entire eSports industry, but I think it's important to encourage people to be a little more aware of how they represent themselves.
Of course there are plenty of people who make successful careers out of having absolutely no taste or class. Ranging from Howard Stern to Johnny Knoxville, some have made millions from basically broadcasting stupidity. While it's certainly your personal decision as to how you prefer to represent yourself, I would never want to sink down to that level and broadcasting a bunch of people getting drunk and stupid at a party is definitely something in that general direction. You can have a "no fluff" broadcast without being crude. I don't understand why people some people seem to think that this kind of behavior is what makes a cast "no fluff". It certainly is without fluff, but it also says something about the type of person you are if that's how you're choosing to behave on a public stream just because nobody's forcing you to behave otherwise.
I don't think anyone here is saying that any such broadcasts should be banned or anything like that, but just saying that the things you broadcast become part of what people see to be your character. And as a fan of eSports I would prefer people outside of the community to be able to see the faces of the community in a positive light because it furthers the credibility of the sport and it shows people that we're not just a bunch of kids that never grew up.
Deep breath...here we go.
Ratings are a form of censorship. They are attempting to add a layer of control to things like music, magazines, movies, TV, radio, and now video games. The first amendment of the American constitution guarantees freedom of speech. There are lots of places where you can live and have massive restrictions on what you can say in public, they're called China, North Korea, Cuba, and Iran etc. Have fun living there. In fact, let me know when you're leaving, I'll buy your plane ticket.
Your second point where you reference the OP saying that how you act on camera as a public figure somehow effect the industry as a whole is 100%, unequivocally wrong. You go on to contradict yourself two sentences later by saying, " Of course one person and/or one broadcast isn't going to discredit the entire eSports industry." Which is it? You either agree with the OP or you don't...I actually get what you were trying to say, and you're still wrong.
Your third point about people not taking e-sports seriously because of "vulgar, low-clas, immature kids" has absolutely no merit. I'm pretty sure South Korea takes e-sports, you know, kinda seriously. But I guess they aren't real people.
Then the truly righteous part of your argument comes out. "I would never want to sink down to that level..." Well goooooooooooood for you. I'm 1000000000000% sure that if someone slapped a million dollars in your lap and told you to interview a porn star or roll around in horse crap you'd do it, in a heart beat.
To you final point, I'd rather outsiders see the e-sports community for what it truly is rather than wrapping it up in a perfect ball of purple Barney And Friends bullshit. Then they can decide if they like it or not. And if they make up their mind without truly finding out what e-sports are all about then they're mindless drones who don't deserve to enjoy it. Furthermore, if they come to some conclusion that the entire e-sports industry is reflected by an after party of adults letting lose after a weekend of intensely focused competition then I want nothing to do with them either.
I'd much rather a community similar to M:TG. Regulated, informal, and fairly popular. Since no one casts M:TG opportunities for the super-PC to be offended are minimal. The best sites are run by those with the most entertaining writers. Really, it's easily the biggest professionally played TCG game yet it's still just a bunch of high school/college kids having fun.
On November 09 2010 06:38 LegendaryZ wrote: I'm actually curious about this now that I think about it.
Poll: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (35)
65%
Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (15)
28%
Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (2)
4%
Other (Specify) (2)
4%
54 total votes
Your vote: What direction would you prefer eSports to go?
(Vote): Professional (OSL, MSL, KeSPA, etc..) (Vote): Professional, but not too serious. (MLG, GSL) (Vote): Informal Grassroots (Fighting game community-style) (Vote): Other (Specify)
A bit unfair to say MLG is not serious. This cast had nothing to do with MLG and they are a strong force in eSports outside of Korea. Same with ESL.
I'm saying MLG is not as serious as something like MLB or BroodWar Proleague, where you have a set network of professional teams, licenses, salaries, etc. MLG is pretty influential outside of Korea, but it's still a prize-hunt akin to the GSL, which is also a notch below in terms of the level of professionalism. This can be seen as a good or bad thing depending on the person, which is why I separated the two levels.
On November 09 2010 06:31 SlayinBZs wrote: imho, for esports to make it, it needs to shed the label of being nerdy or geeky. i know many people want it to remain this cool subculture that only you are a part of so you can feel like you belong to some elite subpopulation but the fact that wheat & co. are showing that most of us are normal, fun loving people is a good thing imo.
that may change as esports becomes more and more accepted, but until people start looking at esports players as role models for their children the way they do with baseball, basketball, football, etc. i don't think it will be a problem.
people on both sides of the spectrum are marginalizing each other by reducing arguments to "crazy douchebag party boy" or "antisocial basement dwelling nerd". most of us fall somewhere in between on this spectrum of behavior, and it would do us all good to just accept that we must find some middle ground.
I would argue that this cast made some of the guests seem less mature, and less cool. Only fifteen years olds boys think a roomful of dudes getting drunk (Sausage Party!) and calling each other bitches is cool.
But I'm an old man with a disposable income, an apartment and a fiance, sooo....
And yet your email has "superpooper" in it, so please try to explain that one.
On November 09 2010 06:48 Teogamer wrote: If sc2 as an esport doesn't take off because of something unrelated to the game itself, then isn't it doomed in the first place?
That stream is the end of the world and now nobody is gonna watch another esports event because of it. It was that important.
I don't mind what these guys do on their free time, if they wanna go around yelling "wee wees and peepees!" like 5 year olds, that's fine.
I tuned in for a while, then turned it off. Would much rather have seen a discussion about the tournament in a calm setting, instead of just crap being tossed around.
Day[9] tried for a while but was barely able to hear what he said anyway.
I'm not saying this stream was wrong in any way, i just don't see the point of it in the first place. If i wanna see people partying, i might aswell just go out to a party myself.
On November 09 2010 06:39 GenoZStriker wrote: A bit unfair to say MLG is not serious. This cast had nothing to do with MLG and they are a strong force in eSports outside of Korea. Same with ESL.
Of course it got something to do with MLG. The stream was a natural extension to the MLG cast, inofficial of course, but featuring the two MLG casters and all the top players.
You would never ever see the official Proleague casters do the same with Flash and Bisu, there's no way in hell KeSPA would allow it.
I'm not saying it's wrong to stream it, quite the contrary, but it's silly to act like it won't reflect on MLG, for good and bad(mostly good I'd say).
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community"
It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually.
There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly.
Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere.
I think it's great that you're voicing your opinion, but just a minor suggestion: if you spell check your letter it'll be much more effective (especially since you're using such a professional tone).
On November 09 2010 06:49 Offhand wrote: Since I voted other I guess I should specify.
I'd much rather a community similar to M:TG. Regulated, informal, and fairly popular. Since no one casts M:TG opportunities for the super-PC to be offended are minimal. The best sites are run by those with the most entertaining writers. Really, it's easily the biggest professionally played TCG game yet it's still just a bunch of high school/college kids having fun.
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
Note that no one from Team Liquid (with the exception of maybe Huk), Day 9, JP or Painuser never referred to their audience as "bitches", talked mad shit about any individual, spazzed out and called a virtual stranger a "peice of shit," etc.
There's a correlation between maturity and success.
Huk has raged at iCCup staff live on their stream before. Day9 is not exactly the pinnacle of maturity in his daily. DjWheat curses pretty damn often on his show. Incontrol gets in arguments all the time with strangers online and talks about them on Sotg. And yet, they're all incredibly popular.
Being popular and successful are two different things.
That's Day9 onstage with Dustin Browder and being groom by Blizzcon.
That's Day9 being referenced in the Economist.
That's Tyler being interviewed by NPR and outlasting Huk and MLG.
That's JP working full-time for MLG.
It depends if these players want to crack jokes and appease the fanboys, or have a long career in the e-sports/ gaming industry.
False dichotomy. The e-sport/gaming industry is aimed at gamers. Gamers aren't going to turn away from e-sports because people make crude jokes in unofficial venues.
Officially, people need to watch what they say. And for the most part, they do.
The gaming culture is not afraid of obscenity. Blizzard developers say "shit" and "fuck" on panels very happily (but not on the official forums). Penny Arcade and PAX are built on 50% gaming and 50% dick jokes.
Even outside the gaming world, lots of people making a handsome living in the entertainment industry while being extremely vulgar. Bob Saget still gets work typecast as an upstanding family man type, even though he's well known in comedy circles as the guy who tells the absolute nastiest, most disturbing version of The Aristocrats ever.
The idea that esports needs to pander to a prudish, morally upright demographic is just ridiculous.
LO3 is an unsponsered (as far as I know) show, in which they don't have to appease anyone but their audience. They put their professional game face on when they are at work, which is a representation of their character in the work environment, which they do during any broadcast show that is being sponsored, but when they had been broadcasting for 30+ hours over the last 3 days, why wouldn't they want to let off some steam and shoot shit with people who have been under pressure for the tourney and just wanna relax and enjoy each other's company for a while?
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community"
It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually.
There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly.
Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere.
Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
You are onbnoxiously arrogant and pretentious.
And ofcourse you can be "reprimanded" for playing games on school property and territory. It's a professional environment. If you go home and play games no-one is going to punish you for it. DjWheat casted a party non-related to MLG or any other organisation. It was a glimpse into his personal life.
To make my explanation extra clear for you: he played games at home, not at school.
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
I like to reiterate the fact that you were disciplined because you were using school's property in a manner that they do not like, while DJ wheat was on a private stream and the example I cited is my behavior in my private home.
I do not attend medical college in California, but here is the scope of compliant I've found on the website of medical board of California
" The Board's staff will review the following types of complaints:
* the quality of care and treatment provided by a physician (e.g., negligence) * violation of drug laws, misprescribing, or over prescribing * substance abuse by a physician * sexual misconduct by a physician * dishonesty (including filing fraudulent insurance claims) * practice of medicine by an unlicensed person or persons under the supervision of a physician "
None of the above pertain to my example (streaming a party in my private residence where moderate amount of alcohol is involved, nor DJ wheat.
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community"
It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually.
There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly.
Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere.
Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
That's just my personality bro
I personally care much more about the format, rules, and actual official coverage of events, not what people do on private streams or in interviews/podcasts that "offends" some view of ESPORTS where everyone has to act like a CNN news anchor.
On November 09 2010 06:34 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I'm not saying this even is what should be done in order to facilitate that change in mindset, but it does raise the issue of how to do it properly.
It's a good thing you said that because I was just about to respond that jokes about rape and blowjobs and girls playing video games is hardly crafting the right image. Other than that, you bring up a good point and I don't really have anything to say other than that I, too, would be interested in seeing a proper debate on the issue.
On November 09 2010 06:39 Offhand wrote: Engineering management. Professionalism is about being dry, non-confrontational, and generally as emotionless as possible. If you've ever worked an office job, you can see how awful it is.
While I can't honestly say I disagree with what you're saying, you can also say it's also about being agreeable and un-abrasive and not sounding like an immature jackass who can't be trusted to handle something with care. Trying to denigrate professionalism into a purely negative thing is just childish. And you're forgetting the important part here - I too work in an office job - it's that professionalism that allows you to keep that job and make money in the first place, so really, what's more important to you: being able to buy food, or being able to be yourself on the job? Professionalism is just what's necessary, that's just how it is.
If you honestly have that much of a problem with it and think people should take a stand and change the world, and I honestly cannot not sympathize with that cause, all I can say is good luck, man.
On November 09 2010 06:45 dacthehork wrote: you do know this is the day9 talking about masturbating in an airplane and how tasteless used to masturbate in the same room as him?
eSports is not taken seriously because "people" think it's a bunch of immature kids? Halo 3 had a fucking 100k first place prize at MLG from a bunch of kids who basically say "IN YOUR FACE BITCH" after every match (and TBH I find it entertaining.) It doesn't matter what "people" think when it brings a huge audience. Where there's viewers there's money and money to be made by sponsors, and THAT is what sponsors care about.
None of them care at all if a blowjob joke offends a few people if thousands still watch it, get your heads out of the clouds.
Honestly I think showing SC2 personalities partying and even being inappropriate is going to help the scene, not hurt it. The biggest problem is that SC2 players are seen as dorky. Look at the NBA, half the allure of the lifestyle is that the players can go to clubs and party. Watching other people party isn't really my thing, but this isn't a big deal.
On November 09 2010 06:52 rally_point wrote: I think it's great that you're voicing your opinion, but just a minor suggestion: if you spell check your letter it'll be much more effective (especially since you're using such a professional tone).
Annalist -> analyst
It was a deliberate misspelling, he didn't want to offend anyone by using the word "anal" in his post.
[QUOTE]On November 09 2010 06:47 jacclark wrote: [QUOTE]
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours. [/QUOTE]
Apparently you treat everything as professional since you are using letter writing in a forum. Not everything has to be professionalized to be successful. If SC2 were to go mainstream casting would be as similar as it was in Blizzcon which is very basic things being mentioned(blizzard specifically told the casters to not go to deep so the casual veiwers can understand whats going on). However as of now SC2 fans are a niche, Jinro only got 6,250 in comparison to a halo team's 100000. I would understand your approach later but as of now its un-needed
You can't have it both ways. Either you have a more professional atmosphere to promote esports or you have what happened on the stream last night. Teamlquid redesigned the banner because it was putting off potential sponsors. How is having a link to a featured stream where you watch a bunch of drunks make comments which would never fly anywhere but a private party broadcast to 2,000 people a good idea?
It was just a really bad idea to leave the stream going that long.
On November 09 2010 07:00 Krigwin wrote: While I can't honestly say I disagree with what you're saying, you can also say it's also about being agreeable and un-abrasive and not sounding like an immature jackass who can't be trusted to handle something with care. Trying to denigrate professionalism into a purely negative thing is just childish. And you're forgetting the important part here - I too work in an office job - it's that professionalism that allows you to keep that job and make money in the first place, so really, what's more important to you: being able to buy food, or being able to be yourself on the job? Professionalism is just what's necessary, that's just how it is.
If you honestly have that much of a problem with it and think people should take a stand and change the world, and I honestly cannot not sympathize with that cause, all I can say is good luck, man.
I've tried to rationalize it in the past. There comes a point where you realize that some people's idea of "letting it all hang out" is wearing jeans on Fridays. Then you have to stop yourself and realize that you're just participating in this madness for a paycheck not because you have any vested interest in the company, people around you, or corporate America in general. People don't get fired or promoted in a professional environment because of the quality of their work. They get fired because they ate the last scone once or promoted because they got buddy-buddy with the right people.
Pro gaming isn't, and hopefully never will be, anything like that. If at any point you see yourself denouncing fun in the name of "advancing esports" then I suggest you stop, re-evaluate what you're doing, and devote that energy to a cause actually worth it (there are plenty).
Honestly, I have no desire to remain in corporate land for the next 40-50 years. I'd much rather get something started where I can work from my own home and do my own thing, like a day trader or something similar.
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community"
It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually.
There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly.
Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere.
Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
Are people seriously going to start analyzing & interpreting Artosis quotes to suit their own needs like its biblical scripture?
I wanted to take the time to send you a quick message about the impromptu Live on Three last night at the MLG Dallas after party. A quick disclaimer: I am not an avid watcher of your this show. I've seen it once or twice but most of my familiarity with it is through reference when watching djWheat cast sc2 Matches with others. In that respect I hope I am not commenting on something that has been addressed previously. I apologize if I am and go ahead and close the thread.
That being said I want to comment on the etiquette of last night's cast. The majority of the cast was wonderful to watch. I loved your conversations with the player post wins/losses, getting the inside perspective and knowing more of the behind the scenes of the tournament.
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole.
The after party cast is a wonderful place to get all the positive aspects mentioned above, but I think it is imperative that you casters/annalists do not forget that you are the public spotlight of the future of Starcraft 2 in North America. If you want this to succeed as a whole, these two attitudes need to be kept in separate realms, that being personal and professional. Perhaps the after party is not the place to do a cast in the future. Perhaps to find another room that is not directly in contact to party where you can bring the players, team owners and organizers to do the interviews is a better way to bring the scene to the fans. I'm not sure. However, it does concern me that it got out of hand so quickly, especially that it did so on a live cast and the later-viewed VODs.
I do want to thank you all for your hard work. I just do not want to see it undone because of stupid mistakes. If there's anything that can be taken from conventional sports in this situation, it is that people in the public eye are held to a different standard. This may not be fair but it is a reality. Thank you for your time.
Fan and supporter ~Anselm
I think the problem here is not them, but you. You have these superficial ideas about what people should act like when representing something like e-sports, but only because you're a trained monkey that has been handled so gently by the giving hands of corporate television. Those people act like professionals, because the men with the masks at the top tell them to act like that, or they will be fired.
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community"
It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually.
There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly.
Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere.
Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
Are people seriously going to start analyzing & interpreting Artosis quotes to suit their own needs like its biblical scripture?
And Artosis' Ancestors said, "WHY CAN'T WE EAT MEAT?"
On November 09 2010 06:52 rally_point wrote: I think it's great that you're voicing your opinion, but just a minor suggestion: if you spell check your letter it'll be much more effective (especially since you're using such a professional tone).
Annalist -> analyst
It was a deliberate misspelling, he didn't want to offend anyone by using the word "anal" in his post.
While I can't honestly say I disagree with what you're saying, you can also say it's also about being agreeable and un-abrasive and not sounding like an immature jackass who can't be trusted to handle something with care. Trying to denigrate professionalism into a purely negative thing is just childish. And you're forgetting the important part here - I too work in an office job - it's that professionalism that allows you to keep that job and make money in the first place, so really, what's more important to you: being able to buy food, or being able to be yourself on the job? Professionalism is just what's necessary, that's just how it is.
Professionalism on the job = great
Professionalism when I am home/anyone's home and want to blow off steam in a professional setting = lol?
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
Sir,
The college I am referring to is the medical college or board of your state, province or jurisdiction - not your pre-university education after high school.
For example, let me quote you the charter of such a college I am referring to:
"The Medical Board of California is a state government agency which licenses and disciplines medical doctors. The Board provides two principal types of services to consumers: public-record information about California-licensed physicians, and investigation of complaints against physicians."
As someone senior to you, it is a duty and responsibility to guide others during their education. I hope to impress upon you that you are not sharing the vein of thought held by the majority of your profession.
While on the topic of private versus public domain and information, I may agree with you personally, professionally I cannot condone it. Professionalism is important for all professionals, including E-sport broadcasters, their companies and their sponsors.
Please allow me to share a personal experience:
My Q3TDM team was invited to the finals of the PGL and in order to practice, I used to play on university computers with my classmates on Friday late evenings after our class - everyone versus myself. It was a fun way to relax with the guys after a stressful week.
When the Dean found out, I was called in and severely reprimanded for "playing violent video games in the class' computer laboratory." I was told I was disrespectful of the contributions and donations of those who funded the laboratory and I should have known better. As president of the class, I set an unprofessional example for the class and was nearly suspended from my studies for the duration of the year.
I hope this helps explain the supportive, yet cautionary tone of the letter which I believe the OP is trying to impress upon us.
Wishing the very best upon everyone.
Thank you.
Respectfully yours.
Quoting artosis "people need to take the sticks out of their asses in this community"
It's a video game man relax, also some parents don't let their kids play violent video games, should we all use their moral compass and not play SC2. The fact some groups might be super uptight shouldn't stop people from doing PRIVATE streams where they act casually.
There is something called freedom and I'm 99% sure djWHEAT can give a shit less if .1% of people watching are offended by something silly.
Instead of complaining, simply don't watch a private stream in a casual atmosphere.
Artosis isn't talking about the ones of us who want to see esports thrive. In fact, if he were talking about people like us he must not like his job as his income requires that esports not die out. He's talking about people like you who see a thread with an OP you read one line of and post flame after flame on.
Are people seriously going to start analyzing & interpreting Artosis quotes to suit their own needs like its biblical scripture?
And Artosis' Ancestors said, "WHY CAN'T WE EAT MEAT?"
On November 09 2010 07:02 iEchoic wrote: Honestly I think showing SC2 personalities partying and even being inappropriate is going to help the scene, not hurt it. The biggest problem is that SC2 players are seen as dorky. Look at the NBA, half the allure of the lifestyle is that the players can go to clubs and party. Watching other people party isn't really my thing, but this isn't a big deal.
I would have to agree with you on that. Until eSports moves away from the image of being a gathering of socially awkward people or lifeless gamers, it will have a hard time being accepted.
Personally, I thought it was awesome to be given a chance to see how all these professionals that I admire can, after a huge tournament where they are competing against each other, come together to enjoy pizza, drinks, and the company of each other. Seeing this get-together motivates me more to one day join them and meet all these awesome guys.
However, I do understand your point OP, as it does ruin the professionalism a bit, but some of the that is a tradeoff I'm willing to make to see the whole event as a more human thing.
Things Lo3 is trying to do: uncensored and interesting exposure of esports. Things Lo3 is not trying to do: get syndicated on NPR, Vision and The Women's Television Network.
EPT
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