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On November 09 2010 06:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows.
This might be the best straw-man argument of the entire thread. Nobody's saying they can't have fun or personalities or emotions. The only thing people are cautioning against is stuff that no collective group of people (aside from shock jocks and shock comedians) gets away with in a professional setting.
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Do you post photos of yourself drinking and partying on facebook? Would you want a video of you doing a kegstand in a doctor's outfit posted? You're allowed to unwind all you want, but do it in private.
I do, as a matter of fact, because those photos depict me in a clearly private setting where I do things with a group of young people that enjoy doing those things with me. Nothing I posted ever crossed boundary of legality, and what I do as a private person should never affect what I do as a public individual.
I just want to reiterate the fact that this is not a public broadcast. I am a reasonable savvy and interested person in SC2 theme, and I have never heard of this stream. You need to go out of your way to watch this (You can find porn easier than this, I promise), this isn't TV where you flip on a switch and be subjected to unwanted information.
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
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Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of being a doctor.
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United States5162 Posts
On November 09 2010 05:59 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 05:57 Myles wrote:
All I have to say is that if E-Sports 'succeeding' means the loss of events like this where we get to see people being themselves, then I have no desire to see this 'success'. Nobody said they shouldn't have streams like that at all. Read again: Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 05:54 Hasire wrote:On November 08 2010 23:48 Anselm wrote:
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole. Quoting this because it needs to be re-read by the majority of posters in this topic. TC didn't say anything about drinking, general stupidity, or anything along those lines. His problem was directly with jokes that bordered on sexual harassment. But for some reason, the topic has been derailed into "baseball players drink, so drinking is fine, you're wrong OP" when that isn't what the post is about. TC raises a valid point, and it should be addressed. The US has specific laws about sexual harassment, and professional casters in a non-professional setting still need to abide by them, especially when the cameras and mics are on.
People make 'inappropriate' comments all the time. To say that talking about stuff in the way he did constitutes sexual harassment is ridiculous.
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On November 09 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote:I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever. Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T. PS. 3000th post. PS2. Poster below me you're dumb  .
Lol true, people in fraternities tend to be more social, and it leads to connections and networking leading to better jobs and higher paying salaries. But when was the last time you saw the owner of Dell or another huge company stream himself getting drunk. So the owners of these huge companies that are so successful probably were frat boys at sometime in there life, but they aren't broadcasting it, can you really not see the difference between a) being a "frat boy" in your private life and acting professional on camera vs b) being a "frat boy" on camera, in the public eye.
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On November 09 2010 06:04 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
I just want to reiterate the fact that this is not a public broadcast. I am a reasonable savvy and interested person in SC2 theme, and I have never heard of this stream. You need to go out of your way to watch this...
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming.
As a moderator of chat channels in several streams (i even had powers on cat-in-a-box durring the event), i have to point out these key aspects, its a PRIVATE channel, sort of how this forum is a PRIVATE forum, meaning you must adhere to the rules provided, and accept its atmosphere. The show was regulated by the casters to a target audience they have always catered to, if you cannot accept this, then move on.
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On November 09 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote:I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever. Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T. PS. 3000th post. PS2. Poster below me you're dumb .
It actually depends a lot on the fraternity as well as specific chapter. There are certainly fraternities that are about serious networking, business relationships, etc. Then there are fraternities that are basically for idiots that can't seem to get out of the college partying mentality. Generally when people blast frat boys, they're talking about the latter. Also success due to having the right connections is not the issue at hand. We're talking about behavior in public. Frats, despite their parties, generally don't stream that behavior live across the internet for everyone to see because they're smart enough to know that they need to at least maintain their image even if we may all know that that is not what they're like at all behind closed doors.
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On November 09 2010 06:04 retro-noob wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows. This might be the best straw-man argument of the entire thread. Nobody's saying they can't have fun or personalities or emotions. The only thing people are cautioning against is stuff that no collective group of people (aside from shock jocks and shock comedians) gets away with in a professional setting.
I'd say you're crazy if that's what you think. The only difference is you happened to watch one last night live instead of hearing about it on the news. How many times do you hear about incidents of professional athletes out at strip clubs or their entourage being douche bags? Those are only the incidents, not the common occurrence when things go smoothly while they're out having fun.
On another note, professionalism in e-sports isn't there yet. It's not, so we shouldn't be pretending it is. We shouldn't pretend these guys have to put on suits, hold press conferences, and abide by a code of ethics in their everyday life that is any different than a normal person. In the future, if the growth ever comes, the uptight brigade might have to take over and ruin the human element to e-sports. It might be inevitable, but let's not pretend we have to prepare for something that, at the moment, is still a ways off.
You didn't want the camera on. Well, it was. I'll maintain until the end of time that these sort of functions are good since no serious line was crossed. Also, the fact that this is even getting any attention shows how misplaced people's priorities are if they're worried about e-sport's growth.
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I'd rather see events like this then have MLG with 1 million dollar prize pools
The second everyone starts giving korean interview responses and some old guy casts the games is the second "ESPORTS" becomes not worth caring about. Also I don't see how "acting professional" creates a professional scene. People want to see characters, behind the scenes, human people. SOTG has so many listeners and downloads purely because of the characters and casual attitudes.
To come on teamliquid and write some open letter espousing how ESPORTS needs to be run like some church bible study group is ridiculous. The more pressing issues are MLG ruleset, lan capability, etc, not humans acting like humans. That was seriously a very tame and pretty respectful party, you need to get out more.
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I thought last night's show was fantastic. I've been watching Starcraft 2 matches since the beginning of the year but didn't really care about (the vast majority of) the players involved until recently. Listening to 'State of the Game' every week did a lot to change that and I think it would be a real shame if all the fun was sucked out of it in an attempt to be more professional.
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On November 09 2010 06:13 dacthehork wrote:
I'd rather see events like this then have MLG with 1 million dollar prize pools
The second everyone starts giving korean interview responses and some old guy casts the games is the second "ESPORTS" becomes not worth caring about.
Lol...almost anybody else would rather have the 1 million dollar prize pool. Especially if you're competing like Idra, jinro, tlo, etc
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Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
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On November 09 2010 06:11 Blademage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:04 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
I just want to reiterate the fact that this is not a public broadcast. I am a reasonable savvy and interested person in SC2 theme, and I have never heard of this stream. You need to go out of your way to watch this...
Some of the posters in this thread remind me of people who I dreadful of becoming. As a moderator of chat channels in several streams (i even had powers on cat-in-a-box durring the event), i have to point out these key aspects, its a PRIVATE channel, sort of how this forum is a PRIVATE forum, meaning you must adhere to the rules provided, and accept its atmosphere. The show was regulated by the casters to a target audience they have always catered to, if you cannot accept this, then move on.
Yup pretty much. Everyone new to LO3 gets either offended or thinks the same way the OP does but quite frankly they have always been like this and they will never change because the would not do it at all if that has to be the case. It's a take it or leave it situation here, no negotiations.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's cut the ferocious straw-manning and name-calling here.
Let's be clear here - no one is saying these guys should transform overnight into pasty malnourished nerds who live in the basement and only brave the dangers of sunlight for their careers whose entire lives revolve around Starcraft 2. That's not what we're saying at all. The point we're trying to make is about professionalism.
You can be a drunken party guy who loves having fun and getting blowjobs - in fact if that's your life I envy you - but it's important to not give off that image. Even if you're that guy, it's important to give off the image that you're a strictly business guy who can approach every job and task you're given with cleanliness and meticulous efficiency - that's what professionalism is. I realize we might have a lot of high-school/college-age kids in here who've never had a real career before, so I gotta really stress this point. It doesn't matter what kind of person you are in private, you can be a serial killer who butchers prostitutes, it matters what kind of image you cultivate for yourself, and no matter the career it's important to mastercraft an image of utter professionalism.
The reasons for this are numerous. The most important reasons for the sake of this discussion are 1. it helps esports grow and be taken more seriously, and 2. it helps these guys and their careers. If/when esports grows and these guys make it into their careers, what do you think is going to help them more - having an image of utter professionalism and care about their work, or some video of them making jokes about blowjobs?
On November 09 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote:
I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever.
Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T.
Now, I'm sure even you realize how this is a straw man that has nothing to do with this debate, but just for the sake of anyone who might be reading this, there is a huge difference between "drunken frat boy" and "guy who is in a frat", and it's all about image, as I've just stated.
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I can't understand why anyone would have an issue with what someone says at an afterparty. The stream was provided so everyone could have a glimpse of the camaraderie that exists in the NA gaming scene.
If anyone was offended by any statements made at the after party, you have the option to dislike the person who made those comments, not any group or organization as a whole.
If you want professionalism, don't tune into a stream for an after party. I don't know why anyone would expect professionalism at a PARTY with ALCOHOL at a HOTEL. I mean honestly, haven't any of you who are griping had drinks in a hotel room with a ton of people? These sorts of off the cuff remarks are made all the time.
Regardless of the fact that it was being streamed, the stream was not set up to a be a professional representation of e-sports or an organization. It was set up so you could watch and participate, albeit remotely, with the NA scene as they decompressed after a hugely successful and stressful event.
It seems that most of those who are disappointed in the content on this afterparty decompression web-stream are putting it into a context in which it never was, it doesn't matter whether or not its publicly available.
Example: I make a youtube vlog complaining about my weekend, and make reference to several quite personal events, maybe even sexual ones. If my boss happens upon this video, is my job in jeopardy because of these comments that are entirely unrelated to my job? Does he have any grounds for filing for sexual harassment or any other reason to dismiss me from my position?
I would think not, as its outside the scope of what duties my job entails, and I am absolved of the responsibilities of the workplace while I am on my own free time. I am not representing my company or workplace on that youtube video, even if its public.
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On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote:
Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so?
It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
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Sir,
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
Sir
If I invite my friends into my own home then open up a web cam and stream via invitation, what occurs in the stream is very much our private life. We had social functions involving a lot of alcohol use and prominent faculty members joking around, but of course, nobody was "disciplined" because they were all private citizens having a good time.
I would like you to see the crux of my argument, which is the fact that the organizer of this cast were private citizens instead of an official face of the esport they are representing.
Last of all, I would appreciate if you can tone down your phantom threat of "disclipine". I have graduated college years ago and your example and experience of being a college rep have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
Respectfully yours
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On November 09 2010 06:13 dacthehork wrote:
I'd rather see events like this then have MLG with 1 million dollar prize pools
The second everyone starts giving korean interview responses and some old guy casts the games is the second "ESPORTS" becomes not worth caring about.
So what you're saying is, to keep esports from becoming something meaningful we should all get drunk on camera? Woah, good idea.
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On November 09 2010 06:17 fellcrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 06:15 Offhand wrote:
Serious question: How many people enraged by this have been to a party in like the last year or so? It isn't necessarily about us being offended, it's about eSports becoming a legitimate sport in America and what the public would expect from a televised sporting event.
Answer the question.
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Damn, playing rough son!
Why is it that no one mentions the massive F-bombs from Jinro, HuK and all the other players. PainUser saying that the viewer that called him out is probably just a guy masturbating in his basement and then doing the jerking with his hands.
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EPT
