|
On November 09 2010 05:50 Schamus wrote:
I believe it was after the email scandal of Wallstreet went out when someone made the analogy of
"Act as if any of your actions will be headlines tomorrow." - This was in regards to workplace conduct, but does it follow suit in the argument here too because djWheat is a quasi-celebrity?
This.
If eSports wants to be considered a legitimate sport, they should act like a legitimate sport. That includes commenators and after parties. When was the last time you saw a BROADCASTED after party for football or baseball and they acted like that, and it was considered appropriate.
|
On November 09 2010 05:49 echobong wrote:
OP's post makes me want to stop reading posts.
Because it was articulate, provocative and tastefully worded? Yeah tl forums need a lot less of that.
|
On November 09 2010 05:46 fellcrow wrote:
*frustration*
People are gonna think that because it is aired on a stream, and not television, it shouldn't be held to the same standards. But the problem for me is, if you want this on national television (which is what everyone wants e-sports to accomplish in America) shouldn't we act like it is on national television at all times and treat it like a true sport, with a diverse fan base. And I don't see how he said, "We're all adults here." or whatever, when there is a huge fan base in younger kids.
Honestly, no. I want them to act like they're on national television when they're doing official events, as they are when they're casting MLG or any other event. I also enjoy the opportunity to get to know them more as people, where they're allowed to act as they would normally without people complaining about every little thing. Do you honestly think anyone is going to pay attention to this cast when they're looking for potential casters instead of Day[9] and DjWHEAT's extensive experience?
|
I loved last night's cast.
The last 20-30 minutes with interviews with the Liquid team and JP were so totally worth staying up too late and getting next to no sleep for work. (Not knocking on the other folks interviewed because they were great too.)
I hope the Lo3 folks keep rocking it out because currently that is what E-sports in North America is, it's the wild west of gaming. Anyone can start up a stream/youtube channel and produce content, and for that reason I love it. As soon as there is some "pro-gaming" entity similar to KESPA (with pro-gaming licenses and such) to discipline folks, yeah, they would have to watch what they say, BUT I would prefer that not to happen.
We get people who are not in it for the money (ala the interview with the guy from Lazarus Gaming), and those people are doing it for love, and I would much prefer someone doing something they love (and being truly human) than someone in it for potential money and fame.
PS: Written after very little sleep and an unintended 12 hour shift at work, so forgive the rambling. Lo3, thanks for inviting me to the party even if I could not attend it.
Edit: /sarcasm on I guess we should try and delete all links to this video then...
|
On November 09 2010 05:51 Krigwin wrote:
If it were a bunch of news anchors, or pundits for major broadcasting companies, or commentators of any other sport, or whatever, that released some video to the world of them making juvenile sex jokes and whatnot, they would be fired the very next day. This is not an opinion, this is incontrovertible fact about the importance of image and professionalism in the world.
Now, the real debate is whether you think said importance is needed or not for SC2, whether because 1. you think it's just a party/game and people need to lighten up or whatever similar reason, or 2. you think it's just as important as in any other career because we're all about making esports be taken seriously. Hence the schism.
I personally am with #2 here, having esports be taken seriously, which requires a certain level of professionalism from everyone involved, can only be good for everyone involved with esports. Or put it this way, these guys act more mature and less drunken frat boy, their audience gets bigger. Their audience gets bigger, their sponsors get bigger. Their sponsors get bigger, their paycheck gets bigger. Win-win for everyone.
Precisely.
"It's just a game" isn't exactly something we're comfortable accepting. Imagine a large company starts to sponsor something similar in size to the GSL in America and one of those guys applies. The employer pulls up that public video. Good luck explaining that one. "We were drunk, just having fun!"
|
I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
|
On November 08 2010 23:48 Anselm wrote:
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole.
Quoting this because it needs to be re-read by the majority of posters in this topic.
TC didn't say anything about drinking, general stupidity, or anything along those lines. His problem was directly with jokes that bordered on sexual harassment.
But for some reason, the topic has been derailed into "baseball players drink, so drinking is fine, you're wrong OP" when that isn't what the post is about.
TC raises a valid point, and it should be addressed. The US has specific laws about sexual harassment, and professional casters in a non-professional setting still need to abide by them, especially when the cameras and mics are on.
|
On November 09 2010 05:50 Schamus wrote:
I believe it was after the email scandal of Wallstreet went out when someone made the analogy of
"Act as if any of your actions will be headlines tomorrow." - This was in regards to workplace conduct, but does it follow suit in the argument here too because djWheat is a quasi-celebrity?
Again, just to comment on where the thread is turning. I do not think that in any way, shape, or form that any specific line was crossed especially by Wheat who was kind enough to post a reply. My concern is just that in the environment they were in, some of the comments made could very quickly have escalated into something that was definitely out of bounds. Again, I think the camera was turned off in time (though, obviously I don't know what happened after it turned off) and that the timing of the comments made made me a little concerned.
Edit: my typos are terrible
|
Pretty much what I expected from the illustrious TL forums - 14yr old boys acting like 12yr old boys. To all of you that are dismissing this as nothing, you're wrong. To those of you that think it's acceptable ... you're just wrong.
If e-sports is going to go professional it behoves everyone involved to, wait for it, be professional! You may not be offended, 14yr old TL forum-goer, but when you grow up you'll see that in the real world you have to act with a certain level of self-restraint and class, and if you can't then you shouldn't drink on a live stream with the entire community watching.
This is the internet - but that doesn't mean every site has to be goatse. It really comes down to this: will that sort of behaviour make major advertisers less likely to sponsor further tournaments and teams? Absolutely.
|
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
Do you post photos of yourself drinking and partying on facebook? Would you want a video of you doing a kegstand in a doctor's outfit posted? You're allowed to unwind all you want, but do it in private.
|
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
You don't have to act the same in public as in private, but a STREAM is not private. When they turned the camera off, they could act however they wanted. But with that stream running, they need to be professional. End of story.
|
United States5162 Posts
All I have to say is that if E-Sports 'succeeding' means the loss of events like this where we get to see people being themselves, then I have no desire to see this 'success'.
|
E: Fuck, beaten ^^
On November 09 2010 05:55 iammaru wrote:
Pretty much what I expected from the illustrious TL forums - 14yr old boys acting like 12yr old boys. To all of you that are dismissing this as nothing, you're wrong. To those of you that think it's acceptable ... you're just wrong.
If e-sports is going to go professional it behoves everyone involved to, wait for it, be professional! You may not be offended, 14yr old TL forum-goer, but when you grow up you'll see that in the real world you have to act with a certain level of self-restraint and class, and if you can't then you shouldn't drink on a live stream with the entire community watching.
This is the internet - but that doesn't mean every site has to be goatse. It really comes down to this: will that sort of behaviour make major advertisers less likely to sponsor further tournaments and teams? Absolutely.
If that's your definition of "professionalism" then I'll try my hardest to prevent e-sports from becoming anything near "professional".
+ Show Spoiler +This is a video game, it's about fun not gaining greater acceptance from a bunch of stuck up old people.
|
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
......
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
Sir,
If your private life became public and it was not professional, you could be brought up before the college to explain yourself and to accept responsibility for your private life and "allowing your private life to be come public".
As a possible college representative with many more years of experience than you, I would not grant you any leeway despite our shared-love of E-sports. You would be disciplined harshly without remorse by far-more severe-minded professionals than myself.
Get your head on straight before you enter the real-world.
Respectfully yours.
|
On November 09 2010 05:51 Krigwin wrote:
If it were a bunch of news anchors, or pundits for major broadcasting companies, or commentators of any other sport, or whatever, that released some video to the world of them making juvenile sex jokes and whatnot, they would be fired the very next day. This is not an opinion, this is incontrovertible fact about the importance of image and professionalism in the world.
Now, the real debate is whether you think said importance is needed or not for SC2, whether because 1. you think it's just a party/game and people need to lighten up or whatever similar reason, or 2. you think it's just as important as in any other career because we're all about making esports be taken seriously. Hence the schism.
I personally am with #2 here, having esports be taken seriously, which requires a certain level of professionalism from everyone involved, can only be good for everyone involved with esports. Or put it this way, these guys act more mature and less drunken frat boy, their audience gets bigger. Their audience gets bigger, their sponsors get bigger. Their sponsors get bigger, their paycheck gets bigger. Win-win for everyone.
but dont you see that as a problem? that is the way things are ill agree with you. thats how important it is in the professional world, but isnt that in itself what is so wrong? its an archaic conservative attitude that completely takes the soul out of everything it touches. sure it works for the older generation but i think the younger generation is starting to see through it and we can only hope for change to come in the near future.
|
On November 09 2010 05:57 Myles wrote:
All I have to say is that if E-Sports 'succeeding' means the loss of events like this where we get to see people being themselves, then I have no desire to see this 'success'.
Nobody said they shouldn't have streams like that at all.
Read again:
On November 09 2010 05:54 Hasire wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2010 23:48 Anselm wrote:
However, it is the last few minutes of the cast that I want to address. You guys need to be very, very, very careful. Slasher's (I believe that's who it was, the guy on the left) at the end of the video and his tone changed very quickly from professional annalist to party boy. Screaming at people coming into the room, making jokes about blow jobs (in graphic detail) and being boisterous about the abnormality of a female in the community is not only a great way to alienate the "non-party-boy" fan base, but also a great way to incur an attitude about e-sports and a whole. Quoting this because it needs to be re-read by the majority of posters in this topic. TC didn't say anything about drinking, general stupidity, or anything along those lines. His problem was directly with jokes that bordered on sexual harassment. But for some reason, the topic has been derailed into "baseball players drink, so drinking is fine, you're wrong OP" when that isn't what the post is about. TC raises a valid point, and it should be addressed. The US has specific laws about sexual harassment, and professional casters in a non-professional setting still need to abide by them, especially when the cameras and mics are on.
|
On November 09 2010 05:54 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
I am a medical student, soon to become a physician, a career where professionalism is paramount, and I fully disagree with the OP.
In my understanding, this stream is the equivalence of an after party, an invitational event where you are welcomed into a private residence to enjoy the company. Those individuals featured on stream were not being professional sports men but merely young people having a good time.
We are on a website about video game, to blow off steam. To me, I better be able to unwind and relax in a video game instead of having to "be professional". I would lose my mind if I have to act the same way I am in public and in private.
Professionalism means different things to different professions. Being a doctor has nothing to do with being a performer, a celebrity, or a broadcaster -- different dynamics and different etiquette.
You can do whatever you want to do here and while playing because you're not a professional. Similarly, I can say whatever the hell I want to say and wear whatever I want to wear when I'm at the doctor's office. This conversation is only about people looking to grow gaming's viability as a career path.
|
Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows.
|
I should write a letter telling how "frat boys" are typically more successful, have higher GPAs, higher community service involvement, more money donated, etc. than the average school goer and maybe all this nonsense about it will stop. Yeah, they probably throw the sickest parties, but almost every single President we've ever had have been in a fraternity, almost all the politicians have been in the Greek system (or of some fraternal affiliation), and a majority of the current CEOs were in fraternities. Best networking source ever.
Fraternity member = something to be revered. If you want "dumbass mentality" go with high school dropout T_T.
PS. 3000th post. PS2. Poster below me you're dumb  .
|
On November 09 2010 06:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Oh, so the uptight nerds who play SC2 should feel empowered? Fuck that. Nerds, get out and enjoy life. Learn to drink, party, and have fun. Sitting by yourself in a basement watching sc2 events and playing non-stop is not all there is in life; even if it is a big part of it.
If anything, this is GOOD for the community and esports. It shows that all of these guys are not hardcore nerds tethered to a computer that aren't allowed to have fun or see the sunlight. The faster the world can drop the notion of tiny, skinny, uptight nerds with no social skills being the only ones playing games then that is when acceptance grows.
And somehow you can't find a way to have fun or see sunlight WITHOUT acting like an obnoxious frat boy? Maybe I'm just weird, but I plenty of fun without partying and I don't see why people use the two terms as if they were synonymous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
