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On November 09 2010 04:40 djWHEAT wrote:
I'll reply to this... eventually. I'm totally beat.
We spend about 2 hours BEFORE the cast even went up trying to get it working. I basically setup a mobile casting solution with the help of SirScoots in that two hours. It was a pain, but yes... we wanted to do it for the community.
What I really wanna address is the whole "professionalism" thing. I have 12 years of history in this industry (pro-gaming/esports) and I'm sure I could drop some epic knowledge bombs that would have most people in here clearly understand why I choose to represent gaming the way I choose to.
I'd love to drop the novel in my head right now, but I frankly have no god damn energy.
Rest assured, I'm happy to address the OP and the supporters on both sides of the "issue" (if you can even call it that?)
Interesting read none the less.
Wheat -- I've got a few posts in here sympathetic to the OP on some of his points, but I've been nothing but impressed by your professionalism as a caster and as a leader for the scene itself. You've got a good thing going and bigger things ahead. Enjoyed the hell out of MLG and the afterparty yesterday. Thanks for the good work.
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On November 09 2010 04:41 Railxp wrote:
why is OP getting so much hate? so you disagree with his opinion, but it doesnt mean he is "bitching". His post is polite, mild mannered, and just wanting to remind JP/MLG that in the age of the interwebs, everything is public. All it takes for a perfect reputation to be tarnished is one small obscure fuckup that has been recorded.
Which is not to say the MLG afterparty cast is a fuckup, far from it actually. Nobody is disputing the hard work and awesomeness of MLG tournaments. It is just wise to be aware of these things and to not be caught off guard. If you are intentionally broadcasting BJ jokes, then all is fine, as long as it is not a "oh i forgot the webcam was turned on" moment, as long as it is completely intentional, then MLG is aware of the consequences and choose to take it.
The problem is the cast itself has nothing to do with MLG besides the fact that a few of them casted it and people there played in it. There isnt one MLG logo, link ,etc to this event. It was an Lo3 production; their motto "progaming without the fluff".
I loved the cast! thanks for setting it up wheat.
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Yeah point was a little off, I guess i misread the tone of his post.
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On November 09 2010 04:40 djWHEAT wrote:
I'll reply to this... eventually. I'm totally beat.
We spend about 2 hours BEFORE the cast even went up trying to get it working. I basically setup a mobile casting solution with the help of SirScoots in that two hours. It was a pain, but yes... we wanted to do it for the community.
What I really wanna address is the whole "professionalism" thing. I have 12 years of history in this industry (pro-gaming/esports) and I'm sure I could drop some epic knowledge bombs that would have most people in here clearly understand why I choose to represent gaming the way I choose to.
I'd love to drop the novel in my head right now, but I frankly have no god damn energy.
Rest assured, I'm happy to address the OP and the supporters on both sides of the "issue" (if you can even call it that?)
Interesting read none the less.
Thanks Wheat. I would like to reply directly to you and I totally understand you are tired and prob not gonna respond back.
I would like to straight up say thank you for everything you did. Not only was it an awesome cast between you and Day but your energy and willingness to contribute to the community is amazing. The fact that after three days of casting, a ridiculously drawn out final due to the lag, and finally getting everything in one place for the community to join in is awesome. I, in no way, want to question your or the people you were talking with's professionalism. You did everything right. Though I did mention it in original post and professionalism really is what the the caution is referring to, I certainly don't want to imply that you did anything wrong.
I loved the cast. I love that there are people out there as dedicated as you who will do it for the fans. Please don't let anything that has been said, whether by me or anyone else, deter you from doing that type of thing in the future like what chill alluded to earlier of just not turning on the cameras. Like I said in an earlier post, I want to make sure in that situation where drinking and partying are the focal point of the evening and you are tuning us in, that things do not get to a point where things have gone too far. Again, you did exactly what you should have in my eyes, turning off the camera after a certain point because obviously the point is to unwind, obviously the point is to not have to be professional any more. Thanks for bringing us what you did.
Edit: tweaked content a little
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personally from my spectator viewpoint i find it incredibly refreshing to see them be themselves and be relaxed on camera and not have to be in super serious mode all the time. it kinda makes you as a viewer feel more apart of the family and have more familiarity with the people there cause you can see their personalities and realize these people arent robots but are people just like you and me and find out this really is a great group of really cool guys. to me it just makes it so much better of an experience and i hope one day our culture can move forward to be more like that instead of pushing the repressive fake super serious mode people think high profile people should be in at all times when in the public eye. it just makes it all feel so fake.
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Ive been listening to about an hour. dont like all the dissing towards the gsl. but the interviews with machine/jinro/idra are great.
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On November 09 2010 04:07 teamsolid wrote:
Why is this thread still open when like 90% of people fully disagree with him? There's nothing really constructive going on here...
Why would a Thread be closed simple because the majority disagrees with him? There's no flaming going on here, the OP brought up a valid point and most people has been trying to form a reasonable discussion on the matter. Plenty of contructive comments might be yet to come, who are you to tell?
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Don't know how either side can make a big deal out of this.
No idea what was said, but (if anything) the only thing needed is maybe try not to be so embarrassing live. Though the only damage it does at this point really is giving yourself a bad image to those you offended. I don't think it's gonna stop esports in any way, and if it does grow, I believe they will adapt just fine and cut those things off of live broadcasts or whatever else they feel it's necessary.
Also, some people are reacting so defensively to such harmless OP, is it that hard not to rage over every single argument on the internet? Someone who brings up criticism isn't automatically going to ruin "the fun" all by themselves. This is just a forum thread, no rage needed to have a debate over something so small, and the final decisions rest on the hands of the people who run the show.
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Will people stop falling to the far sides of this argument? This is just like politics.
I thought the op did a great job voiceing his concerns in a well mannered form. He enjoyed the cast, and appreciates what they do for the esport, but had some concerns about some of the content that was being broadcasted.
Most of the replies are either "get a fucking life and go party, and get the stick out of your ass"
or
"this guy is completely right, they should never try to mix fun and work at the same time."
Neither of which are accurate.
I think the OP did a great job of flying down the middle expressing both sides of the argument. You can disagree with the OP and bring your own argments, but let's not try to put words in each others mouths. Can't we all just get along?
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Television networks broadcast Major League Baseball teams dousing each other in beer and champagne after wins, and drinking heavily, while interviewing them. This is broadcast on national television to tens of millions of people around the world. I have never heard of a parent who watched this, and said, "I am pulling my successful child from select baseball, because he may one day become good enough to play in the major leagues and get a chance to be with a team that makes it to the playoffs and embarrasses me on national television by drinking and celebrating"
Formula One races conclude with the top 3 walking past droves of beautiful, sexy woman, followed by champagne fights on stage with drinking involved. This is also broadcast to tens of millions of people around the world.
This was an after party of MLG viewed by ~2,500 die-hard SC2 fans, whom, I might add, went to a secondary ustream channel, just to enjoy the festivities with the competitors in an intimate setting. Interviews were conducted with various top competitors, most of whom were absolutely fine with giving their insight to the tournament, as well as throwing in a few jokes. You could argue that, "oh what if Little Timmy is watching, and his mother sees it?". Well Little Timmy's mom would see or hear the same thing via chat, or mic, in any online game that Little Timmy played. This IS the internet after all...
Every gamer has experience with people using crude, vulgar language, and most of us at some point have most likely had that run-in with a parent who seemed shocked to hear some guy drop the F bomb loudly over the microphone while you had speakers on, or made a lewd comment.
Relating back to the connection between major sports and E-sports, I do not see a great concern for what was broadcast to the public from the hotel room. The stream had a consistent level of professionalism from the hosts throughout the night, often telling viewers "It's a party, use your imagination. We aren't showing it directly", ect;. I am fine with what they did.
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Wait so Anslem, at first you called what they did as stupid mistakes but responding to DJwheat you are saying some things totally different.
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On November 09 2010 04:58 adeezy wrote:
Wait so Anslem, at first you called what they did as stupid mistakes but responding to DJwheat you are saying some things totally different.
No, the reference to a stupid mistake is saying: I would hate to see some thing awesome brought down because of a stupid mistake. Stupid mistakes are easier to make when alcohol is involved.
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A drunken mistake couldnt take down esports no matter how big of a mistake. Unless Dustin Bowder got super drunk at blizzard and poured all over the sc2 game servers or something. Lol. I understand your concern but I think it's over naivety of how drunken people can really get.
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On November 09 2010 05:00 Anselm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 04:58 adeezy wrote:
Wait so Anslem, at first you called what they did as stupid mistakes but responding to DJwheat you are saying some things totally different. No, the reference to a stupid mistake is saying: I would hate to see some thing awesome brought down because of a stupid mistake. Stupid mistakes are easier to make when alcohol is involved.
I agree with you on that one.
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If you don't like what you're watching or listening to, turn the channel or turn it off. I'm pretty sure there wasn't a gun to your head when you were listening to it. If you choose to be offended then fine, be offended. Why post a message here saying that? What were you hoping to accomplish?
Also, why not send djWheat a message directly sharing your sensitive emotional feelings?
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When are people going to stop believing that webcasts made by a bunch of video game nerds about a video game are supposed to be professional, reserved, PG-13 affairs. Welcome to the high end SC community, a bunch of 20-somethings who happen to really like a video game. Are you seriously surprised that they end up acting like 20-somethings?
Man, that's half the draw of things like the Day9 daily, liveon3, etc stuff. It's just raw footage of people talking about video games. If I wanted boring, uninspired, scripted crap I'd turn on G4.
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DjWheat showed how painfully professional he is all through the MLG cast with Day[9] and kept his cool through crazy amounts of no-lan-support related crap.
I feel like this 'open letter' is poorly targeted, and probably shouldn't have been written in the first place.
This was a post-event party thrown for everyone (as I understand it, by Lazarus' manager) that was not official on any level.
DjWheat, being the entertainer he is opted to bring his camera, microphone, and give us, the community, what we wanted. More access to the players, whats on their minds, and even some insight into what the scene looks like beyond two nerds talking about two nerds battling it out on the live streams.
If anything, I think people watching picked up on the fact that these guys, regardless of team etc. just want to see the game played very well, and while competitive, are extremely friendly. We saw EG and TL sharing a couch and some pizza talking about the futures of their teams and their hopes for eSports as a whole, and I think it was a great thing to see.
Getting angry at DjWheat because drunk people sometimes say things you don't want them to seems silly at best.
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On November 09 2010 04:40 djWHEAT wrote:
What I really wanna address is the whole "professionalism" thing. I have 12 years of history in this industry (pro-gaming/esports) and I'm sure I could drop some epic knowledge bombs that would have most people in here clearly understand why I choose to represent gaming the way I choose to.
I remember when you and RedEye (i believe he was one of your first co-casters back then?) basicly pioneered the idea of having casters in quake, and it's amazing to see you being able to transition so well into starcraft. Equally impressive to see you maintaining the same passion for competitive gameplay as you had back then.
As for the thread.... i honestly dont care. All content involving ret and nony is good content (not to mention all the other players, ofcourse).
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Anselm, you might have had good intentions by writing this post, but people like you are the reason video games have ratings and the supreme court has to hear cases about "violent" video games being on the same level as pornography. Two things I happen to know a lot about.
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On November 09 2010 05:00 Anselm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 04:58 adeezy wrote:
Wait so Anslem, at first you called what they did as stupid mistakes but responding to DJwheat you are saying some things totally different. No, the reference to a stupid mistake is saying: I would hate to see some thing awesome brought down because of a stupid mistake. Stupid mistakes are easier to make when alcohol is involved.
Sure, nobody wants something awesome brought down because of a "stupid mistake".
A little bit of swearing on an unoffical stream is not a "stupid mistake" though.
You could even argue that they should swear more. In the end their target audience consists mainly of young males, who are into computer gaming.
Why is South Park so successful ? Why were Beavis & Butthead so successful ?
Certainly not because they censore everything they say.
Don't get me wrong, an official setting is not the place to drop the f-bombs or whatever. But the show DJ Wheat did was not an official MLG Show.
I really don't think that the swearing will have any negative effects what so ever, because the companies, that sponsor e-sport at the moment have the same target audience of young males ( and females)
Maybe things will look different in 10 years, but the whole thing is a non-issue right now.
At least that's what i think.
Edit: The reason that Video gaming is not viewed as a sport by the general public is not some swearing or something like that.
It is just that most of the older people have no real connection to computer games at all.
It is just a matter of time until that changes though.
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EPT
