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On November 16 2010 21:21 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 02:06 Xxavi wrote:
There's nobody like that! Cool (Fruitdealer)? He was never considered better than Tester during entire Beta period, I cannot believe he suddenly became better than Tester during GSL1. Who else there is even if I accept Fruitdealer to be better than all Toss players? Nobody! Zenio? Come on! Idra? It has to be a joke! Check? You gotta be kidding me. I agree that Protoss needs to be looked at, but Cool and Check for instance are considerably better at mindgames, micro and timing than most GSL-players. You just have to watch their games. Tester now fails at qualification for the third time, seriously - it's time to find a new protoss hero. He should at least make it into the RO64 if he really is as good as people claim.
Two times.
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I blame the fact that protoss are too manly to QQ as loud as terrans or zergs for their problems. As protoss we have overcome many nerfs, and many beatings and I believe we will somehow continue to cope. I don't even want the next patch since I am sure blizzard will nerf protoss somehow.
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I am wondering whether somebody could direct me to some high level replays where a Protoss player actually wins over his opponent in a long game. There seems to be the consensus that Protoss is very powerful in the lategame, but I have rarely seen any indication of that yet. The majority of wins I have seen were some 1 base/2 base borderline all-in pushes, 4-6 gate or Blink Stalkers vs Zerg and 2 base colossus vs Terran.
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On November 16 2010 21:47 ForTheDr3am wrote:
I am wondering whether somebody could direct me to some high level replays where a Protoss player actually wins over his opponent in a long game. There seems to be the consensus that Protoss is very powerful in the lategame, but I have rarely seen any indication of that yet. The majority of wins I have seen were some 1 base/2 base borderline all-in pushes, 4-6 gate or Blink Stalkers vs Zerg and 2 base colossus vs Terran.
Protoss is on paper, but how fragile the lategame P army is and how difficult it is to get it together without the opponent capitalizing on P's lack of mobility means that P is often forced to attempt risky tech builds (ie: cheesy play) or early timing pushes.
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I believe the map line up for this gsl season was really good for zerg plus with two huge role models to copy builds from a lot of zerg players have been really improving very quickly. With scrap station as the 3rd map I think zergs are having an easier time just because of the map pool. Zergs seem to be taking protoss spots and their ratio for the round of 64 is much higher then previous seasons.
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On November 16 2010 21:47 ForTheDr3am wrote:
I am wondering whether somebody could direct me to some high level replays where a Protoss player actually wins over his opponent in a long game. There seems to be the consensus that Protoss is very powerful in the lategame, but I have rarely seen any indication of that yet. The majority of wins I have seen were some 1 base/2 base borderline all-in pushes, 4-6 gate or Blink Stalkers vs Zerg and 2 base colossus vs Terran.
I think you are right. The talk at Blizzcon was that Protoss was too strong late game and that Psi Storm needed a nerf. That seems ridiculous to me. I watch a lot of tournaments, GSL and NA/EU tournaments. It seems like if the Protoss doesn't win within the first 15-20 minutes, they lose the game.
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On November 16 2010 21:54 Dfgj wrote:
Protoss is on paper, but how fragile the lategame P army is and how difficult it is to get it together without the opponent capitalizing on P's lack of mobility means that P is often forced to attempt risky tech builds (ie: cheesy play) or early timing pushes.
It certainly feels like everytime a Protoss moves out he is going all-in because Mutas/Drops will wreck his base.
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Protoss don't complain as much, because among the elite SC Broodwar players, it was always the underdog, and the noob race. Most Broodwar heroes are either Terran or Zerg, i take Protoss should be underepresented on fame, and on old schoolers here. But it's pretty obvious that even though we don't voice as much our opinion, the imbalance is there, whether we complain as much as them or not. It's already funny the point it reached. Only 22% Protoss qualified for GSL, compared to almost double the other two (37% for Terran and Zerg). In both GSL's i think there was only a protoss to reach the quarter finals. Let the game settle more, and the gap will be even bigger, as players' skill improve, and can use and abuse the other races' versatility.
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On November 16 2010 21:57 ForTheDr3am wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 21:54 Dfgj wrote:
Protoss is on paper, but how fragile the lategame P army is and how difficult it is to get it together without the opponent capitalizing on P's lack of mobility means that P is often forced to attempt risky tech builds (ie: cheesy play) or early timing pushes. It certainly feels like everytime a Protoss moves out he is going all-in because Mutas/Drops will wreck his base.
Hate to play against zerg whos going mass muta. You have to go for storm or double stargate just to keep up with him and then he just swap for mass roach and walks into your base
And ofc, the moment you go in, he just goes for your mineral line, killing your photon cannons like if there were not even there, and you either base trade or lose the game
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Protoss should just suck it up 
We can only hope Blizzard will buff them but either way we have to adapt (for a month already) to the current playstyles.
Protoss is said to be OP so we should prove it and not whine about it >.>
We gotta stick our minds together and come up with a new playstyle ><
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On November 16 2010 21:47 ForTheDr3am wrote:
I am wondering whether somebody could direct me to some high level replays where a Protoss player actually wins over his opponent in a long game. There seems to be the consensus that Protoss is very powerful in the lategame, but I have rarely seen any indication of that yet. The majority of wins I have seen were some 1 base/2 base borderline all-in pushes, 4-6 gate or Blink Stalkers vs Zerg and 2 base colossus vs Terran.
I agree, Protoss always seems to lose the late game. They have no response to mass muta in the midgame (allowing zerg to take most of the map), and when ultras come out they are forced to put out slow, horrible immortals. Against T in the late game they get clobbered by EMPs, and they cannot compete in the air with vikings.
I think it's pretty rubbish, and their poor performance in the past several events reflects this. More importantly, the shortage of protoss entrants in GSL3 is telling.
If you were a BW pro, who makes money by winning, and you wanted to switch to SC2... why in God's name would you choose toss? And if you do, you had better win with stalker/sentry or stalker/colossus before the late game.
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I don't really think Blizzard will buff protoss despite these GSL results. One of the sources they use to determine balance is online win %, and protoss is doing better than the other two races at all levels. Unless they seemingly find a way to buff protoss and maintain balanced ladder results, I don't think Protoss will receive any buffs.
Anyway, the game is still young, we don't actually know if Protoss is actually a flawed race yet. It has been doing alright in tournaments, and GSL is an anomaly.
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On November 16 2010 22:05 netherDrake wrote:
I don't really think Blizzard will buff protoss despite these GSL results. One of the sources they use to determine balance is online win %, and protoss is doing better than the other two races at all levels. Unless they seemingly find a way to buff protoss and maintain balanced ladder results, I don't think Protoss will receive any buffs.
Anyway, the game is still young, we don't actually know if Protoss is actually a flawed race yet. It has been doing alright in tournaments, and GSL is an anomaly.
The way not to influence ladder, is to add more abilities / actions with high skill ceiling, that only top level players can take good advantage of.
What's harder to control, a colossus that has a speed of a snail or speedligns? Only very good players are able to use that high speed to the fullest, in comparison, for the colossus there's not much to do with that speed as far as micro goes, and even average players can seem as good as top players.
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I still think it´s a rock-paper-scisor where P > Z > T > P, but in several cases there was people from each clan facing each other or P getting some good people.
But I don´t think there is much to be done, terran is already up and zerg gets either very op or very up in the slightest buff/nerf, perhaps buffing protosses gateway units
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maybe its time to qq? lol
look at what not qqing as hard has brought to the race.
decades of failure as well as not a single Protoss bonjwa. Best we have is the the so called 6 Dragons who never really lived up to the hype.
I pity Tester though as he would probably do better with his Terran. I think Cool mentioned that his Terran is actually so good he has considered switching ( and boy was he good during the clan special)
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I think its funny how they think storm w/amulet is overpowered when its pretty much the ONLY thing that can allow them to push out lol. Protoss already has MAJOR mobility issues with a gimmicky transport unit and zero air power.
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Surprise that Cool and Tester are worse players now than when they were with oGs? I guess practice really does make you better at SC2.
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Cool played and won GSL1 already as not being a member of oGs.
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GSL 3: Terran: 24 | Zerg: 27 | Protoss: 12 | Random: 1
Soon there will be 0!
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EPT
