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This is what I wrote in the other thread. I do think this solution of Blizzard's is worth trying out though. Might proove to like it.
On May 07 2010 06:46 LaLuSh wrote:
The problem I think Blizzard are having, is that their engine is designed to have air units turn around their axis and aim while moving (in whatever direction they were previously heading).
It could perhaps be fixed if they forced the phoenix to actually face and accelerate towards its enemy before being able to fire (as you had to do in BW). And simply make them more responsive in the sense that they turn around faster with retained speed after having fired.
I don't think it's fair to say Blizzard haven't caught on to the fact that moving shot requires animation cancelling. I mean look at how fluidly the phoenix is moving right now. That wouldn't be possible without shortening its animation. They already cancelled what they could cancel of the firing animation. I think the problem lies with how the game is coded. They fixed "moving shot" and cancelled much of the animation, but because the game allows units to turn around their axis it doesn't look or feel right.
In brood war, even if you did patrol micro, your units had to turn and accelerate towards your enemy for the split second it required them to fire. However, they were more responsive when it came to maneuverability and turning around immediately with retained speed.
I don't know though. Shouldn't be too hard on this change without at least trying it out for a while.
*Edit: I should say I don't actually know if you can change the direction of the phoenix while it's gliding now. In that case it might still be an animation issue.
In any case, this is much better than before!
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On May 07 2010 07:11 EmeraldSparks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:10 SichuanPanda wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 floor exercise wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 SichuanPanda wrote:
What you're talking about is adding a poorly coded game engine back into the game because its not the same as Brood War. Have you even tried to micro any of the units in SC2 the same way without first dismissing at as 'not being possible'? The behavior of the mutalisk in the video you showed are the EXACT same as phoenix now. They move while attacking. The only difference is that the phoenix can not attack ground. If you really like BW that much more go play it. wow you are completely clueless I'm clueless huh? It is the exact same behavior, do it before you try to troll me. Go play a game and make Phoenix and cycle back and forth between move and attack like July is doing in the video in OP and tell me they don't behave the way ATA mutas in BW did. Oh wait you can't tell me that because they do. You're a moron. Mutalisks in SC1 do not automatically fire on scourge which are on their tail.
They do to. I've seen it happen.
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On May 07 2010 07:11 EmeraldSparks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:10 SichuanPanda wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 floor exercise wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 SichuanPanda wrote:
What you're talking about is adding a poorly coded game engine back into the game because its not the same as Brood War. Have you even tried to micro any of the units in SC2 the same way without first dismissing at as 'not being possible'? The behavior of the mutalisk in the video you showed are the EXACT same as phoenix now. They move while attacking. The only difference is that the phoenix can not attack ground. If you really like BW that much more go play it. wow you are completely clueless I'm clueless huh? It is the exact same behavior, do it before you try to troll me. Go play a game and make Phoenix and cycle back and forth between move and attack like July is doing in the video in OP and tell me they don't behave the way ATA mutas in BW did. Oh wait you can't tell me that because they do. You're a moron. Mutalisks in SC1 do not automatically fire on scourge which are on their tail.
That's the only difference, this doesn't require as many input commands.
It works the same way though in the game itself, the Pheonix can turn, fire, and never decelerate. However, it doesn't require any sort of special control, and that's all anyone is mad about.
Well, that and you don't have to shorten the time turned around for the actual shot. Although that sorta fits in to the whole fewer commands thing.
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On May 07 2010 07:16 SichuanPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:11 EmeraldSparks wrote:On May 07 2010 07:10 SichuanPanda wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 floor exercise wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 SichuanPanda wrote:
What you're talking about is adding a poorly coded game engine back into the game because its not the same as Brood War. Have you even tried to micro any of the units in SC2 the same way without first dismissing at as 'not being possible'? The behavior of the mutalisk in the video you showed are the EXACT same as phoenix now. They move while attacking. The only difference is that the phoenix can not attack ground. If you really like BW that much more go play it. wow you are completely clueless I'm clueless huh? It is the exact same behavior, do it before you try to troll me. Go play a game and make Phoenix and cycle back and forth between move and attack like July is doing in the video in OP and tell me they don't behave the way ATA mutas in BW did. Oh wait you can't tell me that because they do. You're a moron. Mutalisks in SC1 do not automatically fire on scourge which are on their tail. They do to. I've seen it happen.
i call troll
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UNLESS YOU HAVE TO SPAM THE PATROL BUTTON, IT IS NOT MICRO! :mad:
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On May 07 2010 07:18 SWPIGWANG wrote:
UNLESS YOU HAVE TO SPAM THE PATROL BUTTON, IT IS NOT MICRO! :mad:
I really hope you're being sarcastic.
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On May 07 2010 07:16 RageOverdose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:11 EmeraldSparks wrote:On May 07 2010 07:10 SichuanPanda wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 floor exercise wrote:On May 07 2010 07:08 SichuanPanda wrote:
What you're talking about is adding a poorly coded game engine back into the game because its not the same as Brood War. Have you even tried to micro any of the units in SC2 the same way without first dismissing at as 'not being possible'? The behavior of the mutalisk in the video you showed are the EXACT same as phoenix now. They move while attacking. The only difference is that the phoenix can not attack ground. If you really like BW that much more go play it. wow you are completely clueless I'm clueless huh? It is the exact same behavior, do it before you try to troll me. Go play a game and make Phoenix and cycle back and forth between move and attack like July is doing in the video in OP and tell me they don't behave the way ATA mutas in BW did. Oh wait you can't tell me that because they do. You're a moron. Mutalisks in SC1 do not automatically fire on scourge which are on their tail. That's the only difference, this doesn't require as many input commands. It works the same way though in the game itself, the Pheonix can turn, fire, and never decelerate. However, it doesn't require any sort of special control, and that's all anyone is mad about.
I understand its not precisely the same way of implementing the behavior, but as pointed out here it is effectively the same in-game. The other thing is that in all the videos we've seen posted so far is that the units attacking the Phoenix are blindly following them. Since when have you not seen a unit sitting still attack the first unit to enter its attack range? Wait that always happens. If you are facing a Zerg who micros there mutas OUT OF YOUR PHOENIX RANGE, you will have to use attack move to hit them, essentially the same behavior people have been asking for. SC2 is not going to be a BW clone, if people want all these mechanics that were part of an out-dated engine, there's a 10+ year old game available for you.
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On May 07 2010 07:11 SichuanPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 07:10 MorroW wrote:On May 07 2010 07:02 SichuanPanda wrote:
How is this in anyway different from how the Phoenix functions now? Try spamming both back and forth in the same manner and look what happens. The exact same thing. The only reason that video that has been posted shows just moves happening is because the AI is stupidly following the Phoenix endless, and so they remain within the attack range of the Phoenix. If they were being controlled by a player then the type of micro you are describing would have been required.
obviously not a sc1 player Obviously an elitist who prefers broken game mechanics.
I often call TL members elitists as well.
But changes like this one are simply ridiculous.
It requires NO skill.
Any player who plays this game more than 5 hours a week can perform this sort of 'micro'.
"Broken game mechanics" meant that you need to focus your attention on a unit to get the maximum effectiveness out of it (eg. muta/wraith micro or vulture micro).
Auto-mining was partially substituted with macro mechanics (they require you to get back to your base and split your attention) and MBS isn't THAT big of a deal, since you still need to spam hotkeys to build units, making units from building with different addons requires you to tab with terran, for example.
But this sort of microtakes away the feel of SC1, which is what people are aiming at
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Calgary25990 Posts
Listen, we don't need a new thread. In fact, there is already a thread with "Patch 11" and "Phoenix" in the title.
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EPT
