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Yay three more ">" threads to concern us about! Though Jaedong is pretty awesome, I have no right to say anything about this because I wasn't present during when sAviOr owned.
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Jaedong is my #1 player, but this is a silly comparison.
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Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA.
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Jaedong has never been as scary as Savior was. He is more successful though, as I think he has more titles and, amusingly, has made more money and therefore defines being more successful at his job.
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It is not about those statistics, it is about what each player has given to competitive Starcraft.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:10 Megalisk wrote:
Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA.
He is more BONJWA: he has better results than Savior in all possible meanings
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:10 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Jaedong has never been as scary as Savior was. He is more successful though, as I think he has more titles and, amusingly, has made more money and therefore defines being more successful at his job.
Statistics say that Jaedong is more scary than Savior was. Personal impressions of scariness are inadequate
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Savior demolished everybody back in his time (except for Chojja?) but with Jaedong it isn't always certain that he'll win. I think that's a key difference here...
Now, Flash on the other hand...
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On April 04 2010 06:12 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:10 Megalisk wrote:
Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA. He is more BONJWA: he has better results than Savior in all possible meanings
You really think being a BONJWA is about statistics?
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this thread is begging for over eager fanboyism
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:13 flamewheel91 wrote:
Savior demolished everybody back in his time (except for Chojja?) but with Jaedong it isn't always certain that he'll win. I think that's a key difference here...
Now, Flash on the other hand...
Nope. Savior didn't demolish everybody back in his time: his statistics say otherwise. He was just better advertised.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:14 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:12 Bifur wrote:On April 04 2010 06:10 Megalisk wrote:
Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA. He is more BONJWA: he has better results than Savior in all possible meanings You really think being a BONJWA is about statistics?
What do you think it is about? To have a better advertisement?
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/123_Neo%20Arkanoid.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/1_Reverse%20Temple.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/2_Blitz%20X.jpg)
Do you see the maps that savior ripped assholes open on?
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This topic will not end well....
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We can't really compare but for sure, if Jaedong is where he is now, it's because some bonjwa before him did what nobody did before. To bring zerg to a new level. You know sAviOr is to zerg what Boxer is to Terran. Players such as NaDa, oov, Flash, Jaedong just continued the jobs these one started.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
RebirthOfLegend forgot Longinus. What a fucking gay map for zergs.
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On April 04 2010 06:06 Bifur wrote:Right now one can firmly say that  Jaedong surpasses sAviOr in all possible meanings: Elo Peak: Jaedong (2365) > sAviOr (2321) Elo Peak vs Terrans: Jaedong (2241) > sAviOr (2226) Elo Peak vs Zergs: Jaedong (2341) > sAviOr (2218) Elo Peak vs Protosses: Jaedong (2299) > sAviOr (2274) KeSPA Peak: Jaedong (3459.3) > sAviOr (2129.3) Top-1 KeSPA: Jaedong (4+11 months) > sAviOr (1+8 months) Race Top-1 KeSPA: Jaedong (28 months) > sAviOr (14 months) Top-30 KeSPA: Jaedong (41 months and he is still here) > sAviOr (41 months) Gold medals in OSL and MSL: Jaedong (5) > sAviOr (4) Gold medals in other events: Jaedong (3 + WCG GF) > sAviOr (2) The longest winning streak: Jaedong (13) > sAviOr (9) The longest winning streak in ZvT: Jaedong (12) > sAviOr (7) The longest winning streak in ZvZ: Jaedong (10) > sAviOr (5) The longest winning streak in ZvP: Jaedong (15) > sAviOr (11) A couple of months ago Savior had better Elo Peak vs Protosses, better winning streak in ZvP and he was longer at Top-30 KeSPA, but Jaedong has broken these records
Thank you.
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France2061 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:12 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:10 Megalisk wrote:
Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA. He is more BONJWA: he has better results than Savior in all possible meanings
I'm suspecting that this is a borderline troll thread but anyway --
It's about dominance, not overall titles or even skill level. Savior dominated in a way Jaedong never did. He had a 70% win rate over an eighteen month period and won more titles in a shorter span of time. He had an aura about him that JD never had.
Not to mention that he had a much greater influence on the game -- he's basically the Zerg oov, the player who set the standards that would allow Zergs to actually put up a consistent fight against Terrans over the long haul. Jaedong could be considered the ZvZ bonjwa, and he popularized Luxury's neo-Sauron, but his overall influence isn't comparable. At best, you could say that he's the Zerg Nada, with his strength being his monstrous mechanics, which also explains his longevity.
So if we're talking about absolute skill level, you'd be right, but it's pretty meaningless.
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yeah pretty much agree. jaedong best zerg.
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Well shouldn't stats be a bad thing to use to compare? I mean these days people play much more games. It is obvious that Jaedong is way better than savior, but Jaedong has really never had Savior's dominance. Jaedong has always had Flash and Bisu to compete with for dominance. Savior was the real last bonjwa. Also didn't the term bonjwa start with savior?
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Statistically, you're right. Jaedong surpassed sAviOr in all aspects.
What Jaedong has that makes him less Bonjwa than sAviOr, however, is that Jaedong, even in his prime, had his equals such as Flash.
The sAviOr of 2006 HAD NO EQUALS. The best that sAviOr got was Midas, who choked.
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If you are going to talk about feelings and influences, then fine.
But we are talking about straight up statistics and accomplishments. In that respect, JD > Savior. It is undeniable.
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no. Jaedongs dominance was not as isolated as sAviOr's. During Jaedongs peak, players like Flash, Bisu, Stork, and Fantasy showed themselves as equals. sAviOr had no equal and nothing close to that until he was dethroned by Bisu.
Also, sAviOr revolutionized all zerg matchups, showed a game sense that no player had come close to, and reinvented zerg management from the ground up. Jaedong is the perfect zerg, but he hasn't brought nearly as much to the table in terms of innovation.
All these "Bonjwa" threads and "MY FAVORITE PLAYER IS DA BEST" threads are getting pretty bad. They bring out the same stale arguments and it never goes anywhere.
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there would be no jaedong without savior.
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there would be no modern zerg
why are people constantly talking down the old greats. I keep seeing "flash was so much better than nada lol" "jaedong > savior" "bisu > nal_ra" etc.
Well, of course new players are better. Discussions about players should be kept relative to their era : / It's just ridiculous to compare a top player from now to a top player from 2006. NaDa vs sAviOr finals looks like two b-teamers playing, at least mechanically.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:23 snowdrift86 wrote:
It's about dominance, not overall titles or even skill level. Savior dominated in a way Jaedong never did. He had a 70% win rate over an eighteen month period and won more titles in a shorter span of time. He had an aura about him that JD never did.
This is a strong argument.
It would be very interesting to compare win rates over periods of time, I hope TL will add this option.
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Braavos36388 Posts
Longinus II ZvT
Savior - 8-1 (88.9%)
Other Zs - 61-101 (36.9%)
Reverse Temple ZvT
Savior - 6-1 (85.7%)
Other Zs - 21-47 (32.9%)
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9070 Posts
Bisu is better than these two zerg chumps
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Also, what would sAviOr's record look like if they [the players back then] played even half as many games as they do now? I imagine it would only be even more beastly.
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Jaedong will also never make it tho the MSL finals in 5 consecutive seasons.
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9070 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:30 NeoOmega wrote:
Jaedong will also never make it tho the MSL finals in 5 consecutive seasons.
thats because the bracket system 4 years ago was rigged
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On April 04 2010 06:29 disciple wrote:
Bisu is better than these two zerg chumps
^_^ So true
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On April 04 2010 06:29 disciple wrote:
Bisu is better than these two zerg chumps
Agree
Also, Savior's dominance relative to his peers was much greater then Jaedong's "dominance" relative to his (since he was never "dominate" compared to Bisu and Flash).
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On April 04 2010 06:27 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
there would be no jaedong without savior.
This is so true. Savior's 3 gas hive build and heavy defiler usage created the modern ZvT.
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On April 04 2010 06:12 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:10 Megalisk wrote:
Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA. He is more BONJWA: he has better results than Savior in all possible meanings
rofl you don't even know what bonjwa means. It means complete dominance in your era. The existence of flash makes jaedong not bonjwa and vice versa.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:29 Hot_Bid wrote:
Longinus II
Savior - 8-1 (88.9%)
Other Zs - 61-101 (36.9%)
Reverse Temple
Savior - 6-1 (85.7%)
Other Zs - 21-47 (32.9%)
Katrina (vsT + vsP):
Jaedong - 8-2
Other Zs - 116-162
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On April 04 2010 06:29 Hot_Bid wrote:
Longinus II ZvT
Savior - 8-1 (88.9%)
Other Zs - 61-101 (36.9%)
Reverse Temple ZvT
Savior - 6-1 (85.7%)
Other Zs - 21-47 (32.9%)
This. is by far the best argument. Just look at the maps, they were made esspecially AGAINST ONE PLAYER. Give me a map ,where u would say "hey they made this map so JD wont be as dominating as of now.. "
you just cant.
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On April 04 2010 06:35 SkytoM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:29 Hot_Bid wrote:
Longinus II ZvT
Savior - 8-1 (88.9%)
Other Zs - 61-101 (36.9%)
Reverse Temple ZvT
Savior - 6-1 (85.7%)
Other Zs - 21-47 (32.9%) This. is by far the best argument. Just look at the maps, they were made esspecially AGAINST ONE PLAYER. Give me a map ,where u would say "hey they made this map so JD wont be as dominating as of now.. " you just cant.
NATE MSL Map pool says you can
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On April 04 2010 06:29 Hot_Bid wrote:
Longinus II ZvT
Savior - 8-1 (88.9%)
Other Zs - 61-101 (36.9%)
Reverse Temple ZvT
Savior - 6-1 (85.7%)
Other Zs - 21-47 (32.9%)
Hahaha, that's just sick.
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On April 04 2010 06:29 NurseArial wrote:
there would be no modern zerg
why are people constantly talking down the old greats. I keep seeing "flash was so much better than nada lol" "jaedong > savior" "bisu > nal_ra" etc.
Well, of course new players are better. Discussions about players should be kept relative to their era : / It's just ridiculous to compare a top player from now to a top player from 2006. NaDa vs sAviOr finals looks like two b-teamers playing, at least mechanically.
This ^, also as many have already pointed out savior played on maps that highly favored the other races and dominated on them. On a side note, savior did all this domination when zerg was gimped compared to T and P. Jaedong didnt invent any strats, he got them served to him on a silver platter by July, savior and others, and then just deployed them with great skill. Sure this defines a _good_ player, but not a bonjwa.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:33 theramstoss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:12 Bifur wrote:On April 04 2010 06:10 Megalisk wrote:
Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA. He is more BONJWA: he has better results than Savior in all possible meanings rofl you don't even know what bonjwa means. It means complete dominance in your era. The existence of flash makes jaedong not bonjwa and vice versa.
Ok, but what does 'complete dominance' means? Statistics say that Savior wasn't as dominant as Jaedong, he was losing more games and winning less games.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:21 Roffles wrote:
RebirthOfLegend forgot Longinus. What a fucking gay map for zergs.
Yeah, but there is also Katrina, which is not less fucking gay for zergs and was the most comfortable map for Jaedong
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/162_Katrina.jpg)
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On April 04 2010 06:34 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:29 Hot_Bid wrote:
Longinus II
Savior - 8-1 (88.9%)
Other Zs - 61-101 (36.9%)
Reverse Temple
Savior - 6-1 (85.7%)
Other Zs - 21-47 (32.9%) Katrina (vsT + vsP): Jaedong - 8-2 Other Zs - 116-162
and he lost to flash both times on it
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On April 04 2010 06:32 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:29 disciple wrote:
Bisu is better than these two zerg chumps Agree Also, Savior's dominance relative to his peers was much greater then Jaedong's "dominance" relative to his (since he was never "dominate" compared to Bisu and Flash).
Jaedong has as many starleague golds as those two combined, and is a combined 4-0 against those two in bo5s.
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On April 04 2010 06:40 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:21 Roffles wrote:
RebirthOfLegend forgot Longinus. What a fucking gay map for zergs. Yeah, but there is also Katrina, which is not less fucking gay for zergs and was the most comfortable map for Jaedong
What about Kwanro on Outsider? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't.
What about Effort on Heartbreak Ridge? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't.
What about Firefist on Heartbreak Ridge? 7-0, Jaedong: 9-11.
Bonjwa indeed.
Edit: Bonjwas should be able to win on any map, if their race can win on it.. then they should have no problems. Even if its racially imbalanced against them-- they should still be competitive on it.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:44 whathappened wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:40 Bifur wrote:On April 04 2010 06:21 Roffles wrote:
RebirthOfLegend forgot Longinus. What a fucking gay map for zergs. Yeah, but there is also Katrina, which is not less fucking gay for zergs and was the most comfortable map for Jaedong What about Kwanro on Outsider? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Effort on Heartbreak Ridge? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Firefist on Heartbreak Ridge? 7-0, Jaedong: 9-11. Bonjwa indeed. Edit: Bonjwas should be able to win on any map, if their race can win on it.. then they should have no problems. Even if its racially imbalanced against them-- they should still be competitive on it.
Andromeda:
Savior - 4-9
July - 10-0
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No one here is discrediting jaedong. He is a great player and with flash have been in a class of their own for a while. But to compare them to the old greats like savior and iloveoov and say they are greater is short sighted because these two players are the ones who laid the path for these 2 players to become where they are now.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:50 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
No one here is discrediting jaedong. He is a great player and with flash have been in a class of their own for a while. But to compare them to the old greats like savior and iloveoov and say they are greater is short sighted because these two players are the ones who laid the path for these 2 players to become where they are now.
I love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior.
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On April 04 2010 06:53 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:50 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
No one here is discrediting jaedong. He is a great player and with flash have been in a class of their own for a while. But to compare them to the old greats like savior and iloveoov and say they are greater is short sighted because these two players are the ones who laid the path for these 2 players to become where they are now. I love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior.
freemura #1 forever
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We shouldn't argue about he greatest zergs of all time, Savior went into an eternal slump for our sins, he resurrected himself in the form of Jaedong, and one day, he too will disappear.
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On April 04 2010 06:53 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:50 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
No one here is discrediting jaedong. He is a great player and with flash have been in a class of their own for a while. But to compare them to the old greats like savior and iloveoov and say they are greater is short sighted because these two players are the ones who laid the path for these 2 players to become where they are now. I love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior. i'm fine with that
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Date of Savior's First Medal
8-6-2005
Date of Savior's Lasts Medal
3-3-2007
Difference
14 months 25 days
4 Golds 2 Silvers
Date of Jaedong's First Medal
12-22-2007
Date of Jaedong's Last Medal
1-23-2010
Difference
25 months 1 day
5 Golds 1 Silver
Jaedong is a very streaky player. Savior was truly dominant.
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United States11393 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:26 NurseArial wrote:
Also, sAviOr revolutionized all zerg matchups,
Savior never "revolutionized" zvz, doctor
And it's pretty easy to argue for what JD has done for zvp but of course you either just glossed over/ conveniently forget/never noticed/all of the above.
They've both done a lot for the zerg race and trying to be like hurrrrr x >> y or y >> x is just silly.
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Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:59 NeoOmega wrote:
Date of Savior's First Medal
8-6-2005
Date of Savior's Lasts Medal
3-3-2007
Difference
14 months 25 days
4 Golds 2 Silvers
Date of Jaedong's First Medal
12-22-2007
Date of Jaedong's Last Medal
1-23-2010
Difference
25 months 1 day
5 Golds 1 Silver
Jaedong is a very streaky player. Savior was truly dominant.
This is also a very strong argument.
I agree, that Savior >>> Jaedong in this meaning
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On April 04 2010 07:01 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:59 NeoOmega wrote:
Date of Savior's First Medal
8-6-2005
Date of Savior's Lasts Medal
3-3-2007
Difference
14 months 25 days
4 Golds 2 Silvers
Date of Jaedong's First Medal
12-22-2007
Date of Jaedong's Last Medal
1-23-2010
Difference
25 months 1 day
5 Golds 1 Silver
Jaedong is a very streaky player. Savior was truly dominant. This is also a very strong argument. I agree, that Savior >>> Jaedong in this meaning
Jaedong is a better player. Not even I will argue this, and anyone on these forums for a good length of time knows that this means a good deal.
sAviOr is the Bonjwa because of his dominance. sAviOr brought fear like Jaedong never did.
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The Kespa rankings, at the very least, aren't comparable - there's so many more games now than before, and IIRC the points system was changed at least at one point in the past.
As well, Savior also dominated in an era where no other players could be compared to him in strength. Right now no one can say that about Jaedong, when Flash is around.
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I heard that savior and jaedong are best buds IRL
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please, do not even compare the two.
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Russian Federation899 Posts
ELO rankings are used to wear out, which means that 2500 today is not more then 2400 2 years ago etc.
Also blindly following statistics is not the way u'd like to choose if u want to consider urself a clever person. Remember that there is 3 types of lies.
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9070 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:44 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:32 Sentenal wrote:On April 04 2010 06:29 disciple wrote:
Bisu is better than these two zerg chumps Agree Also, Savior's dominance relative to his peers was much greater then Jaedong's "dominance" relative to his (since he was never "dominate" compared to Bisu and Flash). Jaedong has as many starleague golds as those two combined, and is a combined 4-0 against those two in bo5s.
which sadly is totally irrelevant cause Bisu is much better looking.
but you are right JDs 5 titles > The 7 titles of Bisu and savior combined.
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I'm sorry, anyone who is so confident he offraces in a Starleague is an instant baller in my book.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Most of your metrics are essentially meaningless "numbers" which seem to capture the essence of the issue, but when examined closely, have so many X-factors that they are rendered pointless.
The only one with some semblance of relevance is medal numbers.
And this is a Savior-anti speaking.
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You can't compare peak elo in different time periods. Elo is a RELATIVE stat system, so it's only valuable for comparing the skills of players who are playing in the present, or for comparing two elo ratings that were at the same time period.
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On April 04 2010 07:32 dementus wrote:
I'm sorry, anyone who is so confident he offraces in a Starleague is an instant baller in my book.
While i agree and applaud him for his cojanes it would of been better if he actually won. Savior just brings about fear. To be honest I would feel more scared playing savior then I would playing jaedong.
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A comparison of Savior's and jaedong's updated statistics presented in the thread linked below seems to me to be more meaningful than the stats in the OP. Although it's a nice compilation, it does not prove much. Jaedong is [much] more successful than Savior, and easily better than Savior ever was. With the correct definition of "dominance," one could also argue that jaedong is more dominant than savior.
What many of these statistics cloud is how incredible savior was in overcoming map imbalance. Jaedong was dethroned (arguably) with the help of terran-favored maps, and struggled in late '08 when the six dragons were helped by protoss-sided maps. These things didn't apply to savior even when they did every other zerg.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=98931
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On April 04 2010 06:53 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:50 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
No one here is discrediting jaedong. He is a great player and with flash have been in a class of their own for a while. But to compare them to the old greats like savior and iloveoov and say they are greater is short sighted because these two players are the ones who laid the path for these 2 players to become where they are now. I love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior.
??? What are you smoking, that is not his logic whatsoever.
His point is that these players lived in a different time and... ugh fuk just reread his post its really not hard to understand.
Saying that you cant judge and say that player X is greater than player Y is NOT the same as saying player Y is greater than X, it's just saying that you cant compare these two players just like that.
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On April 04 2010 07:39 Vedic wrote:
You can't compare peak elo in different time periods. Elo is a RELATIVE stat system, so it's only valuable for comparing the skills of players who are playing in the present, or for comparing two elo ratings that were at the same time period.
While my understanding of the elo system is far from perfect I believe that you very much _can_ compare stats from different time periods?
The only thing would be if Savior played so few games that he didn't get to reach his true rating, however I don't believe that for a second - people forget how much the guy used to lose even in his prime. I mean even with the relativly few games he played (compared to today) he STILL consistently failed to even qualify for the biggest individual league -.-
Savior was awsome, still is in a way, but nostalgia really is making people remember him as better than he was imo.
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On April 04 2010 06:13 flamewheel91 wrote:
Savior demolished everybody back in his time (except for Chojja?) but with Jaedong it isn't always certain that he'll win. I think that's a key difference here...
Now, Flash on the other hand...
Flash only started to own recently. I hadn't heard much of Flash a little more than a year ago.
I'd pick JD over Savior :D
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On April 04 2010 07:30 disciple wrote:
but you are right JDs 5 titles > The 7 titles of Bisu and savior combined.
not at all what I said
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On April 04 2010 06:53 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:50 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
No one here is discrediting jaedong. He is a great player and with flash have been in a class of their own for a while. But to compare them to the old greats like savior and iloveoov and say they are greater is short sighted because these two players are the ones who laid the path for these 2 players to become where they are now. I love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior.
July and yellow both didn't contribute much to modern starcraft. I meant savior and oov are really the main reasons why modern starcraft is the way it is now. It isn't surprising how little zvt has changed from savior's time.
Savior and iloveoov are the greatest minds of bw of all time.
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can you make a thread about FLASH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JD
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Lol this threads... Troll imo, you are just a newbie on SC and you are screaming JD >>> Savior...
you cant compare 2 diferent era progamers, you can say maybe chojja > savior or idk but plz dont put savior on the same lvl as flash/jd
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:16 Bifur wrote:
his statistics say otherwise.
stopped reading here. OP has no idea what he's talking about.
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CA10828 Posts
On April 04 2010 07:56 QQplay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:13 flamewheel91 wrote:
Savior demolished everybody back in his time (except for Chojja?) but with Jaedong it isn't always certain that he'll win. I think that's a key difference here...
Now, Flash on the other hand... Flash only started to own recently. I hadn't heard much of Flash a little more than a year ago. I'd pick JD over Savior :D
you also probably only started following progaming a little more than a year ago
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On April 04 2010 06:33 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:27 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
there would be no jaedong without savior. This is so true. Savior's 3 gas hive build and heavy defiler usage created the modern ZvT.
based on this premise, the best starcraft player is blizzard
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United States43350 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:12 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:10 Megalisk wrote:
Jaedong has longevity, but Savior is THE BONJWA. He is more BONJWA: he has better results than Savior in all possible meanings
Savior in his peak had no rivals, he just had victims. JD has never reigned alone.
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United States43350 Posts
On April 04 2010 07:56 QQplay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:13 flamewheel91 wrote:
Savior demolished everybody back in his time (except for Chojja?) but with Jaedong it isn't always certain that he'll win. I think that's a key difference here...
Now, Flash on the other hand... I hadn't heard much of Flash a little more than a year ago.
Your ignorance of the proscene does not make a compelling argument.
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NATE MSL map pool against Flash. Nada's good, but Flash was and is still on a level not touched.
Although Savior's dominance must have been quite fearsome. It didn't even last for 2 years and people are so crazy devoted to him.
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different eras. Savior for life.
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Savior fanboys r butthurt
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:48 Bifur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 06:44 whathappened wrote:On April 04 2010 06:40 Bifur wrote:On April 04 2010 06:21 Roffles wrote:
RebirthOfLegend forgot Longinus. What a fucking gay map for zergs. Yeah, but there is also Katrina, which is not less fucking gay for zergs and was the most comfortable map for Jaedong What about Kwanro on Outsider? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Effort on Heartbreak Ridge? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Firefist on Heartbreak Ridge? 7-0, Jaedong: 9-11. Bonjwa indeed. Edit: Bonjwas should be able to win on any map, if their race can win on it.. then they should have no problems. Even if its racially imbalanced against them-- they should still be competitive on it. Andromeda: Savior - 4-9 July - 10-0
Andromeda came around after Savior's dominance and when July made his final run in the OSL.
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On April 04 2010 07:32 dementus wrote:
I'm sorry, anyone who is so confident he offraces in a Starleague is an instant baller in my book.
Hold on a second. :/
What game was this? Is there a vod in existence? I would love to see this.
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so many shitty threads lately makes me think broodwar really is dying.
it's just really hard to compare different players in different eras. players are getting better at starcraft every day, the game is continuously involving new strategies and builds, there's more parity... things are just too different to compare two players in eras differing over 3 years
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/4_Desert%20Fox.jpg)
