While I am do not have beta and not have a first person experience of StarCraft 2 yet, id like to point out that "stat comparison" is not always a good way to make a point. It might very well be flawed and used against you as for sake of argument.
As in this instance. The numbers to "prove" how much bang of a buck the broodlord is, is infact a bit contradictory.
Adding the broodling damage as well as it's hitpoints in the same equation for the broodlord unit doesn't work because either the broodling will live out it's full duration and do it's full potential damage; IE 10 attacks x 4 damage OR it will die before the duration and do the "buffer" of 25hp. It cannot do both to the full extent.
EDIT: Then again a broodling can give so much more due to overkill damage and I am actually not sure if the broodling actually dies along with it's last attack, however point was: Don't go by absolute numbers in situational scenarios as an argument.
On March 10 2010 11:35 wintergt wrote: Wow good post didn't know their attacks did damage of their own, and that they shoot twice at first. Imba.
This, as a zerg player myself I don't ever get to brood lords unless I had pretty much already won. By the time I get broods I'm usually 2 bases ahead of my opponent and I have him pretty much contained. At this point I get broods just to bust up his turtle.
Plus it takes FOREVER to get them. Spire takes forever to build, so does hive, and so does the greater spire upgrade. Then they have to morph on top of it, which takes like another 30 seconds. It really takes all day.
At this point, trying to stop them with ground is like trying to shoot down carriers using hydralisks without dark swarm in the SC1. There are some things you are just better off using the proper counter for, like vikings.
Some of my opponents have had some success destroying my army by using vikings to focus the broods while using ravens to hunter seeker whatever I have to shoot down vikings (usually muta or hydra). Just let your marines shoot at the broodlings or hydras. They still do good damage with just their air attack, but the broodlings don't live very long with marines around, so it takes em a lot longer to hack through your marines this way and buys you more time for your vikings to do their job.
yea saying they are imba is just like letting the opponent get 12 bc's in sc1 and whine about how imba they are, once you get so many of them, or like watching the protoss get carrier and try to win with pure ling, it just doesnt work that way, so stfu and lern to deal with them, they are even more expensive than and ulltrlisk, come on
Can anyone who have beta tell me if the raven spell that destroys incoming missiles (pseudo darkswarm that only does it's effect on ennemies) intercepts and kills broodlings before they can even land? If yes, you have no reason to whine about broodlords as tvz :o
How about you write down all the requirements to get a single broordlord out?
And why is nowhere mentioned that they are so damn slow?
Now Zerg finally have a decent unit that demands that the opponent pays attention to the battlefield we all whine?
Also, you can still win after he got broodlords out, it isnt as if a single one enters the field you automatically win the game. If that happens to you, I honestly and politely suggest you should change your strategy. Besides don't expect to win versus an army of fully upgraded hydras+broodlord when you come along with your group of zealots and sentries and a few immortals or with a MMM group.
One way Blizzard could solve this is to make Corruptors do melee air damage (as was suggested in an earlier thread created on this forum). Melee air damage is a really cool idea actually, if implemented correctly (the corruptors would for example require a speed upgrade).
If the corruptors did melee damage the BL+corruptor combo would not be overpowered, but still a valid type of play. This would require much more micro from the zerg, as taking down, for example the vikings, would need the corruptors to actually hunt them down. Thus probably open them up to a bit of ground fire, despite the new broodling wall constantly being made.
This solution could prevent BL+corruptors being a win this game button late game, and also adding a some nice uniqe features and style. However this would not solve the problem with BL+hydralisks beeing a bit to good.
Are you really saying that carriers were a "late game win now unit" ?? Sure carriers were good but the same arguments thats used in this thread can be used to them to an even larger extent. Late tech, expensive, takes forever to get many... most importantly they still had counters in SC1.
Probably Broodlords will be fine in a while, after people learn more about how to play against them. But some fine tuning will be done in this BETA before it actually works 100% ok. BL should be really good, as the late tech they are, but there must be viable counters to them so the late game still provides excitement.
If you're letting zerg get lots of broodlords you're probably doing something wrong.
So many years, so many betas and yet people still come out with nonsense like this. =/ If you think Broodlords are fine a good response would be to talk about the attack window or counter strategies, an I win unit is stupid in any game. I don't know SC2 well enough to comment on the Broodlord's balance so don't take my comment either way but please try to avoid such worthless responses in balance discussions.
they are not imba. Are they strong? - Yes. Broodlords are counter-able, they can't attack air so a few vikings or phoenix can own them. They also move very slow and have slow acceleration/deceleration. They are also morphed from corruptors instead of mutalisks so that gives them a steep availability. They are also pretty hard to get and require quite a lot of gas.
Zerg has to be on 3 bases or more in order to afford broodlord and not die before he gets them. Even if zerg gets them, you can still counter them and your example how siege tanks sucks against them is very lame and noob, since sige tanks can't attack air and are the worst units to counter the broodlings anyways. Marines and hellions on the other hand own the broodlings.
The biggest problem is that protoss AA isn't great (terran is a bit better but still, Z is great) compared to SC1. But still, broodlord are a bit imba...They should do MORE dmg but shouldn't spawn units that'll fuck up ur units AI and block ur path (not to mention that u'll never see only broodlords, it's easy to get some hydra with it in a late game....). And they should have a bit less HP... (something like 230-250).Afterall they do have a great range, dmg and spawning units.Of course they don't attack air, but against a toss, what would he do? (storm isn't good enough, phenix sux and would get decimated by corrupter, same for void ray and even Carriere against corrupeter/hydra would get pwned...Stalkers with blink could work but still,not good enough).
From the Terran perspective: They are slow. Vikings are a really versatile unit, and I don't see enough terran producing them. Although a zerg cannot go over-happy with air units with not air attacks, a Terran producing "too many" vikings can use them vs air or ground. They do a pretty fair job against most ground units- not spectacular, but enough that you can offset the worry of your army being too lopsided quite a bit.
So.. make more viking. Great AA range, decent ground attackers, all around a very "safe" unit to mass a bit.
I saw this one video of a single viking killing 50 broodlords all by itself. It was pretty stupid. Vikings really need to be nerfed. 1 Unit should not be able to kill 50 units.
I also saw this video of a single banshee killing 400 ultralisks. NERF!
EPT
