EPTThat combination just feels a bit too powerful every time I've faced it with equal footing + micro.
Zerg late-game should never go ground. Simply mass Corruptor + BL. It's far more powerful than Ultraling or Muta/Ultra.
Why Broodlords own you - Page 2
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
That combination just feels a bit too powerful every time I've faced it with equal footing + micro. Zerg late-game should never go ground. Simply mass Corruptor + BL. It's far more powerful than Ultraling or Muta/Ultra. | ||
|
Bubbadub
United States156 Posts
On March 10 2010 11:51 esla_sol wrote: not true at all. battlecruisers require a significant alteration in your build. broodlords are a natural progression for late game zergs. This doesn't make much sense. You're saying going out of your way to make top tier zerg tech and upgrading a spire into greater spire to make brood lords is different from making a fusion core and tech lab on a starport? Yes they are different races, but they still require NEW buildings in order to achieve. You have to go out of your way to make broodlords... chances are if you are going to make broodlords you dont need the corruptors because you (the zerg) has more anti-air (invested more resources than the opponent), or already have air superiority with mutalisks. | ||
|
Cyrox
Sweden147 Posts
Usually I keep my bio army and add Valkyries if I see heavy air usage, sometimes Thor also. | ||
|
Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
On March 10 2010 12:03 trypt wrote: This doesn't make much sense. You're saying going out of your way to make top tier zerg tech and upgrading a spire into greater spire to make brood lords is different from making a fusion core and tech lab on a starport? Yes they are different races, but they still require NEW buildings in order to achieve. You have to go out of your way to make broodlords... chances are if you are going to make broodlords you dont need the corruptors because you (the zerg) has more anti-air (invested more resources than the opponent), or already have air superiority with mutalisks. This is just retarded. You need corruptors because people will try and mass AA to take out BL, and Corruptors rape ALL air. Zerg's who go all air end-game are freaking retardedly hard to beat as Terran. Corruptors destroy BC. Don't even make BC late game against Zerg....Your best bet is Marauder/Marine/Viking/Raven/Ghost. | ||
|
CowGoMoo
United States428 Posts
On March 10 2010 11:57 Rothbardian wrote: Vikings aren't exactly that cheap either, especially when they get raped by Corruptors. Vikings beat Corruptors and are cheaper. | ||
|
12D3
United States39 Posts
| ||
|
KhaosKreator
Canada145 Posts
I wondered why they are so ridiculously good. The answer is - their utility, their survivability and their damage. Damage: With every attack, they send out EIGHT Interceptors. The Interceptor does indefinite attacks of 5 damage, and they attack twice with each shot. And on top of that, they attack automatically when deployed for the first time, making them do double damage on the first strike. Yes, you read that right. One Carrier has a damage potential of 5*2*8*2 damage (=80+80=160 damage) before armor and upgrade calculation with his first, and 80 with every consecutive attack. Without upgrades. Air upgrades apply to the initial 5 damage, making them deal 20% more damage with each upgrade. Compare that to Broodlords who only get a 12% damage boost on their attacks from air upgrades. An Interceptor in SC1 does 6 damage per attack. Once. And they Carriers costed more in SC1 because don't warp in with 4 Interceptors automatically built. Not to mention the new auto-build feature so they never run out of Interceptors. Utility: They have 8 range, and Interceptors have 3 range, (that's total 11 range!) AND they can fly away once they start attacking. The Interceptors soak up damage and punish Missile Turret use without any downsides for the P - Interceptors have 80 hp, Broodlings 30. The Interceptors have the advanced unit AI that allows them to always attack enemies effectively. You cannot advance on the Carriers reliably anymore because they can deploy Interceptors and fly away while still shooting, much faster than you could before. This is because of the new upgrade that they have that allows them to basically instantly unload their Interceptors. Additionally, Carriers can dual function as AA, giving you a easy way to defend the Carriers from any AA units by simply focusing them. Not to mention it goes well with any Mothership build that gets Fleet Beacon anyway or Gateway units that provide anti-air defense. Survivability: They have 450 hp. And due to the Normal movespeed and the fact that you don't need to stop to attack, you can easily micro them back and forth out of range of any ground units, while utilizing the interceptor upgrade attack-burst. And they heal 150 of their hp quickly over time... Yes, Carriers are almost the highest Protoss tech. No, that does not mean they should be a end-all unit, this isn't C&C. Carriers are simply too good in all of the three sections described above. You cannot have a unit that spawns a 80 hp buffer every quarter-second for your army, deals 80 damage on top of it, and dies only after massive amounts of focused fire. And they do not even have diminishing returns, on the contrary, the more you have, the better, as Interceptors overrun any ground army or air army or base in seconds. You can get Carriers in any situation, even if you go the Gateway unit route, as they don't need any air- or ability upgrades to be useful. A T or Z on the other hand has to get out of his way and make air units to counter a few Carriers, significantly weakening their ground force against the already present zealot/stalker. Be it their 80 initial damage, anti-air component of Interceptors, the 450 hp, being able to attack when deploying the Interceptors, or the basic Interceptors stats and the way upgrades are handled or the Interceptor spawning itself - I feel something has to be changed. Discuss. | ||
|
Mirhi
United States389 Posts
Phoenix is the poor man's corruptor and stalker is the poor man's hydra. Except stalkers cost more and do less to air (and ground). Marines, Hydras both counter carriers. Stalkers and marines get raped by broodlords. Bad comparison is bad. | ||
|
Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
Even this wouldn't be too bad if broodlords were something z made out of desperation, a last resort sort of thing, but no, zerg is usually in the lead at this point, with innate map control, with terrans forced to react while scouting being generally difficult making reacting that much more perilous. Basically, broodlords are just a coup de grace for a winning zerg, and for a losing zerg provide a very legitimate chance to comeback unless they're very fargone and/or terran has the overwhelming air advantage (which is plausible). For the carrier post above me, I personally have very little experience with carriers, so it could be that they're imbalanced too, though I'm fairly sure you're being sarcastic. If you think they are, try making a new thread about it. If you're being sarcastic, you're not being helpful. Broodlord complainers aren't just cultists who want to have something to complain about, this is a legitimate complaint that broodlords truely seem to exasperate an already very fine line in balance in tvz. edit: I agree with the post above me in response to the carrier post. | ||
|
PiePie
United States248 Posts
| ||
|
lixlix
United States482 Posts
| ||
|
Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
| ||
|
EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
And that would be insanely overpowered because SC1 terran air force is pretty terrible otherwise in TvP. | ||
|
madcow305
United States152 Posts
Vikings have the same range as Broodlords, and outrange Corrupters by a great deal. They also deal bonus damage to both the Corrupter and the Broodlord because they're both armored. Corrupters do not deal bonus damage back, since Vikings aren't Massive units. Terrans will already have a Starport or two up anyway, either for Medivac if they go Bio, or Ravens for late-game detection. When they scout the Greater Spire being morphed, they simply have to lift their Starport to one of the reactors they already have, and start pumping out large amounts of Vikings. After the Vikings deal with the Zerg air, they can even go to the ground and help push with the ground forces. Protoss have a bit more trouble defending against lategame Broodlords, because their best counter units cost more than the Viking, don't deal as much damage, and have shorter range. The Pheonix will die to a Corrupter 1v1. They also cost as much as a Corrupter, and build slower. They're not really suitable for countering a Corrupter/Broodlord army, but they can work in a pinch if you have more Pheonixes than they do Corrupters. The Void Ray does bonus damage to armored units, and it is not massive, so it will kill Corrupters 1v1. The downside is that the Void Ray is relatively slow, allowing accompanying Hydras to push up and slaughter them if there aren't enough Zealot meatshields. They also cost 50 min and 50 gas more than the Corrupter, and build much slower. | ||
|
Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
They are strong though, I just don't see how your points substantiate the position that they're imbalanced with relationship to the entire game, not just listing stats. | ||
|
ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
| ||
|
SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
I also agree that it's far, far too early to be calling something overpowered. Meta-games don't evolve overnight and counters can take a long time to be found. | ||
|
Rucky
United States717 Posts
The very fact that zerg has used all their resource in air means that they don't have a ground army. Use their weaknesses, don't attack their strengths. listen to day 9. ignore things you cannot stop. if broodlords are attacking you don't suicide your whole ground army into it. don't panic. BLA BLA BLA basically it's just things pro's (people who use their heads when playing a game) would yell at a noob with. Stop this nonsense. how many broodlord imba thread do we need? | ||
rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
| ||
|
ColorsOfRainbow
Germany354 Posts
can u do this too for bc's or anything from t ? xD soo cool xD its true ^^ broodlords discuss after how many games vs tzehm ? 2 ? 10 ? 100 ? play 1000 vs them plz then tell us more ^^ | ||
| ||
