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On April 15 2010 23:33 Broodie wrote:
thank you wire you're totally right, not only what you said but I also add that, in a mere second more FREE infinitely spawning units are added to the battle, which like I said earlier create a wall so you cant run in and snipe from ground...
something just popped to mind though, how much damage does the ghosts snipe ability do?
Seriously? Something just popped into your head?
So you came here yelling for a nerf to BLs without even trying everything to counter them.
I mean, I don't know if BLs are imbalanced, but obviously neither do you.
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Broodlords are a powerful unit, no doubts. Getting to this stage can be troublesome if playing against an aggressive player, but if there is turtling involved, go for it. I did my placement matches last night, and I was able to get broodlords on both games that I randomed zerg. I almost felt sorry for my opponents, they would have some stalkers or a few vikings, and my massive swarm of corrupters and 5-6 BL's would block out the sky and completely decimate everything in about 30 seconds. Corruptors are also good because they have "corrupt" or whatever it is, which shuts down buildings which are producing units, or you can use it on a planetary fortress and it shuts the guns down, allowing your broodlings to eat the buildings quicker.
They can be owned though, by an air force of equal size. I came up against a massive fleet of vikings and my entire first wave of BL's and corruptors went down, but I had more producing so I won by attrition. They arent imba, but they are really good.
I dont thin
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Anyone care to provide some replays?
All the higher-level games I've seen with Zerg make me think that it's a fairly difficult trek to Hive tech, much less Broodlords, specifically against Terran.
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Let's play a game.
3 Brood Lords: 300/250 each. 900/750 Total
12 Hydralisks: 100/50 each. 1200/600 Total
2100/1350 Total.
Name a Protoss army that costs less than or equal to this amount that will beat this army, assume full upgrades and good micro on both sides. You can convert minerals to gas in 2-1 and vice versa. You can even use more than 2 unit types. Alternatively, name a Protoss army consisting of two types of units and I will name the Zerg counter. If you want to include Carriers, note interceptor cost.
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On April 15 2010 23:58 Ecrilon wrote:
Let's play a game.
3 Brood Lords: 300/250 each. 900/750 Total
12 Hydralisks: 100/50 each. 1200/600 Total
2100/1350 Total.
Name a Protoss army that costs less than or equal to this amount that will beat this army, assume full upgrades and good micro on both sides. You can convert minerals to gas in 2-1 and vice versa. You can even use more than 2 unit types. Alternatively, name a Protoss army consisting of two types of units and I will name the Zerg counter. If you want to include Carriers, note interceptor cost.
I'm not sure how many it would buy but I agree with previous posters: stalkers with blink walk all over broodlords... What's the evidence against that?
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On April 15 2010 23:58 Ecrilon wrote:
Let's play a game.
3 Brood Lords: 300/250 each. 900/750 Total
12 Hydralisks: 100/50 each. 1200/600 Total
2100/1350 Total.
Name a Protoss army that costs less than or equal to this amount that will beat this army, assume full upgrades and good micro on both sides. You can convert minerals to gas in 2-1 and vice versa. You can even use more than 2 unit types. Alternatively, name a Protoss army consisting of two types of units and I will name the Zerg counter. If you want to include Carriers, note interceptor cost.
10 zealots (with charge): 100/0 each. 1000/0 Total
10 Stalkers (with blink): 125/50 each. 1250/500 Total
2250/500 Total (thats 850 gas les, so throw in 8 extra zealots if u wanna even out the total cost).
GG
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On April 15 2010 23:58 Ecrilon wrote:
Let's play a game.
3 Brood Lords: 300/250 each. 900/750 Total
12 Hydralisks: 100/50 each. 1200/600 Total
2100/1350 Total.
Name a Protoss army that costs less than or equal to this amount that will beat this army, assume full upgrades and good micro on both sides. You can convert minerals to gas in 2-1 and vice versa. You can even use more than 2 unit types. Alternatively, name a Protoss army consisting of two types of units and I will name the Zerg counter. If you want to include Carriers, note interceptor cost.
Diehilde's suggestion works very well.
I was going to suggest:
1000m 600g - 4 Void Rays
1000m - 10 Zealots
100m 300g - 2 High Templar
Total: 2100m 900g
10 Charge-upgraded Zealots and 2 High Templar with storms is more than enough to slaughter 12 Hydralisks - they'll be dead faster than they can kill four Void Rays, and then you can simply run the Protoss ground force away. Brood Lords are too slow to escape from Void Rays.
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I wonder if the problem really is the BL themselves or the broodlings. I think that the problem is the broodlings. Broodlings should die to any one attack or the equivalent, have a hp of 6. That way well micro players can keep down the number of broodlings. 6 hp, means that with +1 carapace, marines cannot 1 shot the broodlings. I think that would be a good relationship. Broodlings should punish the player who does not micro against them, but should fall very fast to fire/aoe.
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Can OP post 8 replays where this was a problem showing this balance issue? >.>
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First case: Ten Stalkers with Blink do 120 damage. They take, minimally, 3 volleys to down ONE Brood Lord (275, so even three doesn't take it down really). Meanwhile, Broodlings are messing with your Zealot Charge AI, and since your Stalkers are apparently PAST the Broodling line due to Blink, the Hydras have taken to attacking them. Your Stalkers are not coming out of this alive. At least one Brood Lord is.
Second case: Hydras and Brood Lords are right next to each other. Brood Lords attack Zealots, making sure that they can't even close with Hydras without taking massive damage. If Void Rays attempt to engage Brood Lords, Hydras attack Void Rays. Storms with their now laughable radius make dodging a very reasonable response for Hydralisks. Zerg essentially moves army backward as Templars run out of energy, leaving the broodlings to deal with chasing zealots. Note that Brood Lord range is 9, Void Ray range is 7. If the Brood Lords are attacking the zealots, the Void Rays are in front of the Zealots, making them easy targets for Hydralisks (Range 6).
This seems like a fair fight because of the Void Ray's ability. Depending on micro, Void Rays could do well against Brood Lord Hydra, if you could only figure out how to deal with the Hydras supported by broodlings.
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On March 10 2010 11:38 ItsBigfoot wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2010 11:33 agorist wrote:
If you're letting zerg get lots of broodlords you're probably doing something wrong. there should not be a "late game I win now" unit especially since broodlords only cost 150/150 if you got and saved mid game corrupters
Critical mass carriers is basically I win now if ur not flash
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A decent tweek to broodlords would be to make their attacks cost a small amount of mana thus giving them a mana pool that can be emp-ed or fed-back.
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All of these cost comparisons are not including the cost of getting the tech for broodlords, which is the longest most expensive tech path in the game.
Everyone I've seen complaining about them is trying to beat them with a ground army, which, while it can be done, that's like saying colossus is OP because of how badly it rapes all zerg ground, or how 10 tanks in siege on a cliff can't be killed with ground. we KNOW this, you have to use something else to break in.
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both carriers and broodlords are too good.
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EPT
