http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsyQse2b618 Hey look it's a carrier that moves away after launching its intercepters at 7:03! Must be a different game, C&C?
Yep was gonna say thats bull shit cause I was microing my carriers nonstop and the interceptors didn't return after I started to move them.
On March 10 2010 14:24 rotinegg wrote: Woah so carriers cant move away, but have to hold position in the open when attacking? Learn something new here everyday i guess 0_0
Eh well yeah they can move. But they still have to stay relatively close to the target, if they back off the interceptors retreat, and they have to stand still until all Interceptors are actually launched before moving. Was pretty sure I saw them having to hold position in a Stream, and I don't play P myself so .. yeah shame on me. Doesn't matter tho. Carriers fulfill the role of single target Air DPS, but Broodlords with their ground clutter utility are in a whole different league. Unless you want to count air cluttering with 25 mineral Interceptors utility.
Don't be daft. Four Brood Lords is 1200/1000. Three fully loaded carriers in Starcraft 1 are 1650/750. If three fully loaded Carriers in Starcraft 1 could not be stopped by any terran ground units that would indeed be a clusterfuck, and "lol get wraiths and/or battlecruiser" would not be a solution. A single Carrier cannot snipe Broodlords unless it's the only thing that Zerg built in the entire game.
Likewise, a single Carrier won't be the only thing the Protoss built. Did you see the word Mothership?
And yes, "lol get X" is a solution. Roaches destroy P player 1. P player 1 goes and complains. P player 2 says "Uh...Immortals." End of topic. Welcome to SC2, where SC1 analogies won't always apply, and hard counters exist.
I think by "39485789" you meant "4." It's okay, I get confused by big numbers too sometimes.
Assuming imbalance with insufficient evidence but operating under the assumption that everything is balanced is also flawed.
The point I was making with the numbers is that it doesn't matter what the number is, if it's any number (of brood lords) sufficient enough to destroy everything you throw at it. I'm saying it's your fault if they have any type of unstoppable force, because someone can't "just" tech up to tier 3 and get an unstoppable army if you were doing what you should have been (teching yourself, harassing, etc.)
I'm not saying everything is balanced, nor am I assuming imbalance. If you can point out where I said so, please do.
If you're referring to the part where I say "Zerg is imba," it's a misinterpretation. I'm saying that if a Zerg player manages to hold you off while grabbing the ultimate high-tier army, either the skill difference between you is incredibly different, or Zerg is imba rather than the Brood Lord itself as the topic claims. I don't claim that Zerg is indeed imba, though.
I same had huge problems vs broodlords as protoss ...
Just won my frist game on metalopolis vs zerg who did hydra broodlord ... he was really bad , but i managed to kill him with mass stalker / colouss + void ray ... very gas heavy... he didnt had muta my colosus managed to kill his hydras or most of them and i did flank attack on broodlords with 2 to 4 void rays and i killed them before his corputors managed to kill my void rays ... i belive void ray is best option at the moment ... they are countered by hydra and mutalisk ... with hydra since it is ground you can run away on cliffs and snipe broodlords speed upgrade from fleet beacon reaaally helps ... opens mothership after as well , but i didnt had money for it ... vs muta i dont reallly know what to do to be honest i was fortunate he did stick with corupters broodlord and hydra combo , stalkers + void rays own corputors as well ...
they are really powerfull zerg was bad and i had deacent advantage as well.
On March 10 2010 14:44 EmeraldSparks wrote: Assuming imbalance with insufficient evidence but operating under the assumption that everything is balanced is also flawed.
On the contrary, when something is labeled as imbalanced, people write losses against it off as though they're cheesy wins, and not legitimate. It's when we assume everything is balanced that people actually try hard to find ways to beat it.
Comparing stats is meaningless. So many units in sc2 have more hp and more dmg that sc1, it's just not a valid comparison. The scales are completely different. Imortal does 50 dmg to armored? I mean, seriously, you can't compare the dmg values across the games.
Just wondering if anyone has heard of a timing push.
sc1 tvp protoss double expands if terran doesnt attack before toss's gateway's come up and get a contain or expand themselves they are at a huge disadvantage.
If zerg's are using all there larva on corrupters to get broodlords then they arent making any anit ground forces then that is the time to attack. The zerg will most likely have a disadvantage at that point and u will pick off a lot of stuff and maybe cripple the zerg. It is all about timing and assuming balance is a great thing because people will try very hard to find a counter instead of doing the samething every game and losing to the same strat and claiming IMBA
On March 10 2010 11:39 Kiante wrote: to all the people going "Oh if they get broodlords you're doing something wrong" you're basically saying that you want the game to end before it gets to late game. how is that balanced? the game should be balanced regardless of how long it goes on. there shouldn't be a "beat all" strategy like broodlord/corruptor/ling as there is now.
Broodlords do not beat everything, not even close. You need to have 5+ brood lords to even do decently against a large MMM ball. Ultras are mediocre, hydras do ok with full fungal infestations, but really man... late game Z doesn't have much of a choice other than forcing T to produce vikings. Protoss is definitely more boned, but there are some things they can do.
Feedback is bad news for corruptors. (archons do bonus damage to them as well but are obviously not going to do well against the broodlords). The zerg needs corruptors to make broodlords.
Theorycraft: Another potential counter is not to fight broodlords head on - trade bases instead.
You know where his greater spire is from your observer, so go attack the base. The zerg tech tree is more fragile than the protoss one - If you destroy his spire you stop him producing any air units at all, where he has to kill all of your starports individually.
I bet protoss can rape bases harder than broodlords for the money, and if he sends his corruptors after your colossi, your phoenixes(or carriers) are free to kill his broodlords.
If he's got an unstoppable number of broodlords *and* a stronger ground force than you, then you already lost before he build the broodlords.
In this replay from the recent Zotac tourney, Raven shows us what seeker missiles and good control do to ~10 broodlords in a lategame zerg army. (3:10 in video)
On March 10 2010 16:01 -fj. wrote: In this replay from the recent Zotac tourney, Raven shows us what seeker missiles and good control do to ~10 broodlords in a lategame zerg army. (3:10 in video)
Wow, just realized medvacs make it almost impossible to tell whats going on under them in big battles like that.
I must admit, from what I've seen Broodlords seem to own. They are basically like the ultra-Guardian. Kinda weird since Guardians were so good to begin with...
On March 10 2010 16:09 HuskyTheHusky wrote: I must admit, from what I've seen Broodlords seem to own. They are basically like the ultra-Guardian. Kinda weird since Guardians were so good to begin with...
???
I can't remember the last time I watched a pro game where the player went guardians and actually won. And I can remember plenty of games where a player had a sizable advantage, went Guardians, and then lost.
the best way to deal with zerg once he has broodlords is to abuse their lack of mobility, and avoid fighting them when theyre protected. theyre extremely slow and any time they attack/harass your expos you should go try to take out expansions. you should either be able to take them out or engage his now broodlord-less army. most likely zerg will try to defend with ground, very unlikely he'll ignore and support broodlords. in which case the broodlords are likely undefended for a small window of opportunity, try to take advantage of this and use a group of vikings or a group of marines can quickly focus the undefended broodlords. expanding more while taking expos or harassing the zerg at all his bases is one of the most effective ways to deal with it.
this is largely map-dependant though so you really need to consider what your best options are on each map and individual game.
I wrote this for a terran vs broodlord thread but similar ideas apply. plus yes they are incredibly costly and high tech so good players ive faced hit you at a timing where you're just about to get them but haven't yet, (scans/observer on hive/greater spire) because for that window the zerg will have fewer units out because of the high cost of going for them
ye im gona have to agree there should not be a i get this unit out i win unit maybe we just dont know the counters yet but brood lord does seem strong so far
Has anyone tried getting a few BCs as soon as the zerg starts getting hive tech? Their DPS is insane (especially against Ground to get rid of Broodlings), and Yamato is perfect for killing Broodlords. Both units are at the very end of the tech tree which should be fair. If you are using the BCs together with your main army you shouldn't need to upgrade them a lot either.
broodlords are not a natural progression.. if zerg doesnt build spire midgame if the situation didnt require it... and zerg players dont evolve greater spire just for the fuck of it on the other hand, i feel terran players tech starport alot more often than zerg players do with spire. its more natural then, for terran players to build a fusion core and transition to cruisers
On March 10 2010 16:14 TheYango wrote: I can't remember the last time I watched a pro game where the player went guardians and actually won. And I can remember plenty of games where a player had a sizable advantage, went Guardians, and then lost.
Definitely true in SC1. But imagine how much better guards would be if they didn't stack as much, storm did half damage, irradiate didn't exist, sairs didn't exist, goons were gimped, goliaths didn't exist, etc. That's basically SC2.
On March 10 2010 16:37 ffswowsucks wrote: I have the same problem as the OP but instead of broodlords, ULTRALISKS.,omg
... how? ultralisks are so bulky, think of one time where more than 3 of them were hitting ur army at any given time? Ever used a colossus or thor? both are > ultralisks. Colossus = omg there is a cliff ill go stand on it = gg ultralisk. thor = OMG i have an ability that stuns and rapes ur face, gg ultralisk.
But i dont think brood lords are op at all tbh, if he gets his FINAL TIER UNIT, GET YOURS. BC's>Broodlords. If your a protoss get templars, phoenixs,carriers ? Who wants to know what happens to 5 broodlords if 5 phoenixes attack them? answer: they die. they cant run away, they cant fight back. n2m for the same cost of 5 brood lords u can have like 8-10 phoenixs.
Are people really not getting that SC2 is not about massing any one unit.. its about armys made of a bit of everything, its starting to seem farely obvious at least to me.
I dont understand how they are op at all except that they might be the Z answer to not gettting rolled by MmM ?
problem is most zerg have a corruptor-broodlord mass. I think void rays are the better counter to them with zeals on the ground to take out any hydra that might snipe your void rays... Pheonix are shit imo, only good against muta and taking out OLs in PvZ.
I want to propose another idea... what if gravitron beam worked both ways as in... can ground an air unit if desired or lift a ground unit. Would make sense and the disable could be critical to winning against brood lords. "graviton net" or something like that, temp disable requires micro and casting that can render broodlords attackable by ground units.
EPT
