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On August 06 2009 06:18 EvoChamber wrote:
If someone lights a flaming bag of shit and leaves it on your family's doorstep, that's a problem. I'm not saying that Teamliquid is a family, or that you're a flaming bag of shit, DS. I like to believe that people are decent at the core, and that flames and shit are not all that they're made of. But when every post you make on this forum is full of fire and shit, and when you're in a place where words are all that other people have to judge you by you're going to run the risk of being confused with a flaming bag of shit.
LOL NERD RAGE
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is awesome32274 Posts
On August 06 2009 05:01 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 20:35 tobi9999 wrote:On August 04 2009 20:31 nujabes wrote:On August 04 2009 20:29 tobi9999 wrote:
Knew it, bisu is too bad PvT to take games even when he has like 4 mining bases vs 2 mining bases are u dumb? bisu showed in the past that his PvT can be top-tier he's just played really sloppy overall in this series But, his PvT really really isn't that great against people like Iris. You are aware of the fact that he almost killed Iris several times in the fifth game right? Comments like yours makes me think that you have no knowledge of the mechanics involved in TvP and how much concentration and multi-tasking that is involved in fighting off that early proxy robo and goons by Bisu. I saw the game timer when watching the early game on youtube and thought "ok Iris is dead, I guess they will show some ceremony or whatever the rest of the time"; 20 minutes or whatever. However he clawed his way back into the game with sick harassment and defending against Bisus army so many times. I was SURE Bisu was gonna win it, even though the game was prolonged. And to everyone saying Bisu played like shit, you deserve your D- on ICCUP because there is no way in hell, anyone with some knowledge about Starcraft would say that he sucked in these games.
You realize contrary to what people thought, IriS played by the book, and very solid; and bisu played awfully cheesey, even in game 5, when he had an advantage he just had to go all in with goons every 3 minutes.
Bisu played "good" but only after he had an advantage, when iris pushed him back (like in all the games iris won) bisu just fell like a house of cards.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On August 06 2009 06:18 EvoChamber wrote:
If someone lights a flaming bag of shit and leaves it on your family's doorstep, that's a problem. I'm not saying that Teamliquid is a family, or that you're a flaming bag of shit, DS. I like to believe that people are decent at the core, and that flames and shit are not all that they're made of. But when every post you make on this forum is full of fire and shit, and when you're in a place where words are all that other people have to judge you by you're going to run the risk of being confused with a flaming bag of shit.
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On August 06 2009 14:38 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2009 05:01 Foucault wrote:On August 04 2009 20:35 tobi9999 wrote:On August 04 2009 20:31 nujabes wrote:On August 04 2009 20:29 tobi9999 wrote:
Knew it, bisu is too bad PvT to take games even when he has like 4 mining bases vs 2 mining bases are u dumb? bisu showed in the past that his PvT can be top-tier he's just played really sloppy overall in this series But, his PvT really really isn't that great against people like Iris. You are aware of the fact that he almost killed Iris several times in the fifth game right? Comments like yours makes me think that you have no knowledge of the mechanics involved in TvP and how much concentration and multi-tasking that is involved in fighting off that early proxy robo and goons by Bisu. I saw the game timer when watching the early game on youtube and thought "ok Iris is dead, I guess they will show some ceremony or whatever the rest of the time"; 20 minutes or whatever. However he clawed his way back into the game with sick harassment and defending against Bisus army so many times. I was SURE Bisu was gonna win it, even though the game was prolonged. And to everyone saying Bisu played like shit, you deserve your D- on ICCUP because there is no way in hell, anyone with some knowledge about Starcraft would say that he sucked in these games. You realize contrary to what people thought, IriS played by the book, and very solid; and bisu played awfully cheesey, even in game 5, when he had an advantage he just had to go all in with goons every 3 minutes. Bisu played "good" but only after he had an advantage, when iris pushed him back (like in all the games iris won) bisu just fell like a house of cards.
honestly even most progamer terrans wouldnt survive the first 10 minutes of game 5. I absolutely couldnt believe he managed not only to defend it, but to go on and win the game.
People are acting like bisu threw the games or something. Bisu has great pvt but Iris just perfectly defended against his aggression, bisu ran out of money and Iris won. There were several points throughout the game where bisu almost broke Iris and won right there. People saying bisu played badly or Iris didnt deserve to win arent acknowleging his awesome defense and how close the game was throughout.
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On August 06 2009 06:18 EvoChamber wrote:
If someone lights a flaming bag of shit and leaves it on your family's doorstep, that's a problem. I'm not saying that Teamliquid is a family, or that you're a flaming bag of shit, DS. I like to believe that people are decent at the core, and that flames and shit are not all that they're made of. But when every post you make on this forum is full of fire and shit, and when you're in a place where words are all that other people have to judge you by you're going to run the risk of being confused with a flaming bag of shit.
This is so winning the whole thread ... fuck bisu, screw Iris ... it's flaming bag of shit time!
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On August 06 2009 06:18 EvoChamber wrote:
If someone lights a flaming bag of shit and leaves it on your family's doorstep, that's a problem. I'm not saying that Teamliquid is a family, or that you're a flaming bag of shit, DS. I like to believe that people are decent at the core, and that flames and shit are not all that they're made of. But when every post you make on this forum is full of fire and shit, and when you're in a place where words are all that other people have to judge you by you're going to run the risk of being confused with a flaming bag of shit.
thread win lol screw bisu losing this just made my day
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Bisu played well but Iris is just better -_-. economically Iris is not far behind Bisu the world game
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On August 06 2009 14:57 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2009 14:38 IntoTheWow wrote:On August 06 2009 05:01 Foucault wrote:On August 04 2009 20:35 tobi9999 wrote:On August 04 2009 20:31 nujabes wrote:On August 04 2009 20:29 tobi9999 wrote:
Knew it, bisu is too bad PvT to take games even when he has like 4 mining bases vs 2 mining bases are u dumb? bisu showed in the past that his PvT can be top-tier he's just played really sloppy overall in this series But, his PvT really really isn't that great against people like Iris. You are aware of the fact that he almost killed Iris several times in the fifth game right? Comments like yours makes me think that you have no knowledge of the mechanics involved in TvP and how much concentration and multi-tasking that is involved in fighting off that early proxy robo and goons by Bisu. I saw the game timer when watching the early game on youtube and thought "ok Iris is dead, I guess they will show some ceremony or whatever the rest of the time"; 20 minutes or whatever. However he clawed his way back into the game with sick harassment and defending against Bisus army so many times. I was SURE Bisu was gonna win it, even though the game was prolonged. And to everyone saying Bisu played like shit, you deserve your D- on ICCUP because there is no way in hell, anyone with some knowledge about Starcraft would say that he sucked in these games. You realize contrary to what people thought, IriS played by the book, and very solid; and bisu played awfully cheesey, even in game 5, when he had an advantage he just had to go all in with goons every 3 minutes. Bisu played "good" but only after he had an advantage, when iris pushed him back (like in all the games iris won) bisu just fell like a house of cards. honestly even most progamer terrans wouldnt survive the first 10 minutes of game 5. I absolutely couldnt believe he managed not only to defend it, but to go on and win the game. People are acting like bisu threw the games or something. Bisu has great pvt but Iris just perfectly defended against his aggression, bisu ran out of money and Iris won. There were several points throughout the game where bisu almost broke Iris and won right there. People saying bisu played badly or Iris didnt deserve to win arent acknowleging his awesome defense and how close the game was throughout.
IMO Bisu still lost the game more than Iris won the game.
Now, don't get me wrong, because I know how many times that particular phrase has come up after games only to be followed by many, many arguments. Even though Bisu played well initially, he made a lot of terrible, terrible decisions. That's why I say that it was more of Bisu's loss.
So here, we see what Bisu has done. But what did Iris do? Iris played solidly. If this were a boxing match, it's like Boxer #1 is trying to knock over Boxer #2 by continually throwing out punches. However, Boxer #1 pushes it too much several times, wearing himself out. This allows Boxer #2 to finish the fight while Boxer #1 is too tired to defend himself properly. In this situation, one can't say that Boxer #2 didn't do anything because he had to take those punches. But really, did he do anything special? Iris, like Boxer #2, didn't do anything special. At least in my eyes he didn't. But I have to hand it to him that he played very solidly.
Another way to see it is:
Bisu's fail-meter: 10 out of 10.
Iris's success-meter: 8 out of 10.
Bisu made mistakes that lost him the game. Those mistakes weren't caused by Iris, which is why the outcome of the game mostly can't be attributed to Iris.
That's why it's not "WHY IRIS??? WHY'D YOU HAVE TO KICK BISU OUT OF THE MSL?". It's more like "WHY BISU??? WHY DO YOU FAIL SO HARD?"
Remember, everyone has their owns views, everyone is biased. So, whatever I guess LOL
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On August 05 2009 18:30 datscilly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2009 18:07 Marine50 wrote:On August 05 2009 17:30 Murdoink wrote:lol was that after he won 3-0? context please It was right in the middle of the second game, say about at the 5 minute mark of a 14 minute game. Kwanro just defended a 9-pool speed with an overpool expand, with ease.
Rough google translation from his interview says he felt a cramp in his hand
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Russian Federation150 Posts
On August 06 2009 17:52 BanZu wrote:
So here, we see what Bisu has done. But what did Iris do? Iris played solidly. If this were a boxing match, it's like Boxer #1 is trying to knock over Boxer #2 by continually throwing out punches. However, Boxer #1 pushes it too much several times, wearing himself out. This allows Boxer #2 to finish the fight while Boxer #1 is too tired to defend himself properly. In this situation, one can't say that Boxer #2 didn't do anything because he had to take those punches. But really, did he do anything special? Iris, like Boxer #2, didn't do anything special. At least in my eyes he didn't. But I have to hand it to him that he played very solidly.
Ali vs Frazier scenario, right? It's one of the most epic boxing matches in the history 
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Iris won the game more than Bisu lost it - and Iris DID force Bisu to make mistakes. Maybe you didn't notice those dropships of doom fucking with his army positioning.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On August 06 2009 19:23 Ace wrote:
Iris won the game more than Bisu lost it - and Iris DID force Bisu to make mistakes. Maybe you didn't notice those dropships of doom fucking with his army positioning.
Fucking with their army position isn't particularly useful if you don't have anything to push out with.
Having just rewatched the game, I have to say it seemed like Bisu was just fucking around with mass hallucination and kamikaze attacks into sieged positions. I think Bisu just assumed the game was a formality after the advantage he took going into the midgame.
Iris played very solidly and continued trying to do everything he could to claw his way back, but I think it was mostly Bisu assuming he was more ahead than he actually was.
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If Bisu didn't use hallucination he would have had a hell of a time breaking through that defense. Even after all the hallucinations died look at how much his army melted and Iris still had reinforcements clawing out his factories. Bisu did a smart thing but because he lost it will of course look stupid.
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On August 06 2009 20:15 Ace wrote:
If Bisu didn't use hallucination he would have had a hell of a time breaking through that defense. Even after all the hallucinations died look at how much his army melted and Iris still had reinforcements clawing out his factories. Bisu did a smart thing but because he lost it will of course look stupid.
The first hallucination was actually pretty epic. However, Bisu kind of abused it hoping to win the match. A cooler-headed Protoss player would have just kept the Terran within his base while macro'ing up. However, Bisu decided to throw away his eco and went all-in. Didn't work out. He lost.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On August 06 2009 20:21 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2009 20:15 Ace wrote:
If Bisu didn't use hallucination he would have had a hell of a time breaking through that defense. Even after all the hallucinations died look at how much his army melted and Iris still had reinforcements clawing out his factories. Bisu did a smart thing but because he lost it will of course look stupid. The first hallucination was actually pretty epic. However, Bisu kind of abused it hoping to win the match. A cooler-headed Protoss player would have just kept the Terran within his base while macro'ing up. However, Bisu decided to throw away his eco and went all-in. Didn't work out. He lost.
Exactly, I didn't say that the execution was all that bad, just the decision to attack into a sieged up terran army was not one that a sane protoss player would make unless he was (or thought he was) way ahead.
In other words, the use of hallucination to try break the siege line was not 'fucking around' part in itself, it was the fact that he got hallucinate specifically to make am attack that seemed to be totally unnecessary(the attack itself). More like someone getting tired of playing around and just wanted to end a game that was already a forgone conclusion.
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On August 06 2009 19:23 Ace wrote:
Iris won the game more than Bisu lost it - and Iris DID force Bisu to make mistakes. Maybe you didn't notice those dropships of doom fucking with his army positioning.
What? I'm not sure I understand completely because Bisu lost due to sacrificing his army over and over (as I "illustrated" in my previous post). Seems like he didn't even see Iris' 3rd expansion, which Iris took pretty quickly (also he did this in set 3 and set 4). I don't get how Iris messed up Bisu's army position because if anything, that forced Bisu to NOT waste his army like he kept doing.
So I guess you can count that as one mistake costing Bisu the game, which is not seeing the 3rd expansion. This led to him making the mistake of all-inning with his army, only to fall short of finishing Iris off.
Perhaps you can argue that Iris' quick 3rd is "brilliant" or "great play", but that's your opinion. And in my opinion, that's not enough to say that it was more of Iris' win than Bisu's loss.
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On August 07 2009 01:31 BanZu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2009 19:23 Ace wrote:
Iris won the game more than Bisu lost it - and Iris DID force Bisu to make mistakes. Maybe you didn't notice those dropships of doom fucking with his army positioning. What? I'm not sure I understand completely because Bisu lost due to sacrificing his army over and over (as I "illustrated" in my previous post). Seems like he didn't even see Iris' 3rd expansion, which Iris took pretty quickly (also he did this in set 3 and set 4). I don't get how Iris messed up Bisu's army position because if anything, that forced Bisu to NOT waste his army like he kept doing. So I guess you can count that as one mistake costing Bisu the game, which is not seeing the 3rd expansion. This led to him making the mistake of all-inning with his army, only to fall short of finishing Iris off. Perhaps you can argue that Iris' quick 3rd is "brilliant" or "great play", but that's your opinion. And in my opinion, that's not enough to say that it was more of Iris' win than Bisu's loss.
The sad thing is, no matter who wins against people like JD, Bisu, or Flash, people will downplay it and make the winner not look as good by saying "XXX lost the game, YYY didn't win." Fact of the matter is that Iris wooped Bisu's ass in a BO5, and he deserves some damn recognition. He's been a great player for a long time but he hasn't gotten the recognition he deserves.
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Well, since I don't really favor either Iris or Bisu, I'd have to say Iris played better in game 5. Every time Bisu was looking to make a death blow, Iris took out one of Bisu's expos and would usually defend Bisu's charge as well. Bisu was uncharacteristically sloppy with mines, but I felt that Iris's maneuvers with his dropship was better than Bisu's sloppiness with mines.
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Norway1530 Posts
No welcome to the black parade this msl :<
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Lol guys are crazy fanboy -_-. I have reviewed game 5 several times. The fact is that Bisu only has advantage in early game and early mid game. After that all thing goes down hill to Bisu due to Iris's great harass. Enter late game, this is always the war between 2 base toss (6,7) and 2 (12,3)base terrant. So definitively Bisu didn't have the game at that point. If he didn't make the last two desperate attacks, he would still lose the game no matter what. So in the late game this is Bisu who wants to make the comeback not Iris!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://fomos.kr/gnuboard4/data/file/gallery/3673080874_cd6b870c_090804-17th-MSL-2009-8B0AD-D.gif)
