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This talk of bonjwa is so meaningless. "oh, Savior is bonjwa. He dominated for a while." Well, Savior is playing now and hasn't stopped playing since his domination and now he can't even crack the top 30 best players. If Savior played Jaedong in 100 games it would end up ~90-10 for Jaedong. How can anyone even think Savior was ever as good as Jaedong is now. All the previous bonjwa's were great at the time, but the game and the players has completely and utterly passed them by. The players today would curb stomp Boxer, Oov, Savior, Nal_Ra, Yellow, etc if we had a time machine. And the best case is Savior who plays today at the same level as when he dominated, but today he isn't even top 30 best player.
And don't give me some crap like that's comparing a retired athlete to a current player right now. Savior and Nada have never stopped playing, just their competition is far superior now and its clear that in this crop of players that is the best ever they do not cut it. So, who really cares if they dominated a previous period against worse players. Certainly, the game has evolved but shouldn't people like Nada and Savior who have been playing longer than any of these youngsters have an advantage from experience and yet they get destroyed by people who have been playing the game for half the time.
It's still fun for one of the old "greats" to make a run and you want to root for them, but deep down you know they're just not very good anymore.
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On August 05 2009 10:16 EvoChamber wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2009 10:13 Ideas wrote:On August 05 2009 10:04 Harem wrote:On August 05 2009 10:00 EvoChamber wrote:On August 05 2009 09:13 Mortality wrote:On August 05 2009 08:13 NicolBolas wrote:On August 05 2009 07:06 B1nary wrote:On August 05 2009 06:52 oatboy wrote:
IMO if Jaedong manages to win both SLs he'll have demonstrated dominance about equal to savior, considering things like titles won, ELO dominance and sheer scariness in important matches. He's maybe not quite as dominant in ZvT, where you really never thought there was any chance savior was going to lose ever. Even if he does, can you honestly say with 100% certainty that he's the favourite in a series against Bisu? There's no doubt that Jaedong's very very good, but he still looks mortal. When Savior was bonjwa, there was no doubt that he would win, regardless of opponent or map. And yet, during his dominance, he only won one OSL. If there was no doubt that he would win, how did he keep losing OSLs? If he was so dominant, why didn't CJ win the Proleague title under his reign? If OZ wins the finals with a Jaedong-lead beatdown, and Jaedong takes the OSL and MSL, how can you really question it? The only way he could have been more dominant is if he also took GOM (which, I would point out, he did get to the Ro8 in). Hi. You must be new to Starcraft or else you would know and understand just how thoroughly Savior dominated the game. You must be new to Starcraft or else you would understand just how pathetically bad Zerg was doing against Terran before Savior showed up. July and Gorush were slumping. Nobody seemed able to step up and fill in. Even Chojja, the other "great Zerg" of Savior's era struggled to overcome the top Terrans. NaDa fell. Oov fell. Midas fell. Nal_ra fell. Kingdom fell. Everyone who was anybody fell. The only person who seemed able to fight Savior on even ground was Chojja in ZvZ and Chojja was supposedly number one in the world in that match-up (and Savior had the winning record against Chojja...). And while you may point to Proleague, there wasn't a winner's league back then and CJ was arguably a worse team overall than OZ is (with an "I can win or lose against literally anybody" BackHo and decent snipers in the forms of Hiya and Lomo -- OZ is a stronger team than people give it credit for, which is why they can win BO7's in the playoffs, and why they actually have a shot at taking down SKT-1 if everyone plays their best on day 1). And while you point to GOM, back then Savior dominated obliterated everyone at just about every single special event he was invited to. Didn't get to spank NaDa and Boxer hard enough in individual leagues? Tear them down in Superfight! Own WEF! And everything else! If you counted those special leagues, Savior's impact would become even more terrifying. In order for me to feel like Jaedong has surpassed Savior, he will need to win 2 of the 3 leagues he is in (OSL, MSL, PL). If he does that, then I may consent to acknowledging that he's perservered and made it. But even so, he's only now starting to attain that aura of untouchability that Savior had in his prime. By the way, for those people who commented about JD royal roading and all... should I remind you of how pathetic he looked against Protoss back during OSC? Losing to Rock?!?!?! JD's first OSL run was anything but convincing. It wasn't until around the time that he won MSL that he seemed to have stepped up his ZvP game. In fact I recall him being less than 50% wins vs Protoss at the time of his OSL win. So then you rag on Savior for offline prelims? >_> History could have been very different if Jaedong had to play against Bisu or even Free (who JD has a losing record against even today!). It's not that the OSL win was somehow meaningless, but that there was a completely diifferent feeling than when Savior marched through every fucking single one of the best vs Z players of his day. Jaedong has not yet surpassed Savior. In terms of relative dominance, he may never surpass Savior: the skill level of the average A-team progamer has risen drastically since Savior's era. Savior's achievements are countless and indisputable. Terrans really were walking all over Zerg, and Savior really was the only hope for Zerg. But you may be downplaying just how much Protoss was walking over Zerg before Jaedong's ascension at EVER. Yes, his vP was terrible before and up to game 1 against Stork. But as Hot_Bid pointed out in his FE, Jaedong learned ZvP right before our eyes in the finals of the most coveted prestigious league. Less than a month later, he proved the viability of 5hatch hydra against the world's best PvZer, Bisu, on Blue Storm and began the counter-revolution against forge FE that's reversed nearly all the advantages in strategy and morale that Bisu earned when he slaughtered Savior. At the same time, he was raping Terrans left and right with 2hatch muta and winning the great majority of his ZvZs. Only the sudden rise of Flash prevented him from winning both leagues that spring. It's possible that Jaedong's ZvP might still be abysmal if he had played Bisu in the EVER finals instead of Stork, but that's not what happened. Just as Flash would do in Bacchus, he used Stork to evolve his vP matchup to an S-class level and soon reversed the flow of the metagame (no more carriers vs. T, no more sair/dt vs. Z). Jaedong's strategic achievements (regression to 2hatch vs. T, expansion to 5hatch vs. P, complete paradigm shift vZ) are not as flashy as Savior's (3 hatch muta->lurker/defiler->ultra/ling vs. T, muta/lurk vs. P), but they have also had a great influence on the metagame. The reason 75% of OSL/MSL semifinalists are Zerg this season isn't just maps; it's also Jaedong, who proved that a focus on mechanics and execution could solve problems in the metagame that players with a broader strategic vision and weaker mechanics, like Savior, could not, or at least, make those problems easier to solve. Savior was great, Jaedong is great. We know precisely how great Savior was, but Jaedong's greatness is still a work in progress. You forgot the more important part of what he did to zvp with scourge. didn't July 1st use 3 hatch spire to scourge to counter sairs in the EVER2008 OSL vs Best? Yeah, but you can already see Jaedong doing it on January 8, 2008 in the Bisu game on Blue Storm.
Maybe it seems like July did it first because it was more noticeable in the July vs BeSt game.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On August 05 2009 10:18 Lamprey wrote:
This talk of bonjwa is so meaningless. "oh, Savior is bonjwa. He dominated for a while." Well, Savior is playing now and hasn't stopped playing since his domination and now he can't even crack the top 30 best players. If Savior played Jaedong in 100 games it would end up ~90-10 for Jaedong. How can anyone even think Savior was ever as good as Jaedong is now. All the previous bonjwa's were great at the time, but the game and the players has completely and utterly passed them by. The players today would curb stomp Boxer, Oov, Savior, Nal_Ra, Yellow, etc if we had a time machine. And the best case is Savior who plays today at the same level as when he dominated, but today he isn't even top 30 best player.
And don't give me some crap like that's comparing a retired athlete to a current player right now. Savior and Nada have never stopped playing, just their competition is far superior now and its clear that in this crop of players that is the best ever they do not cut it. So, who really cares if they dominated a previous period against worse players. Certainly, the game has evolved but shouldn't people like Nada and Savior who have been playing longer than any of these youngsters have an advantage from experience and yet they get destroyed by people who have been playing the game for half the time.
It's still fun for one of the old "greats" to make a run and you want to root for them, but deep down you know they're just not very good anymore.
So? The point of calling a player bonjwa is to give them credit for what they did in and to eSports as a whole. Just because Savior/Nada/Oov/Boxer don't play like bonjwas anymore doesn't mean we can't call them one.
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On August 05 2009 10:16 EvoChamber wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2009 10:13 Ideas wrote:On August 05 2009 10:04 Harem wrote:On August 05 2009 10:00 EvoChamber wrote:On August 05 2009 09:13 Mortality wrote:On August 05 2009 08:13 NicolBolas wrote:On August 05 2009 07:06 B1nary wrote:On August 05 2009 06:52 oatboy wrote:
IMO if Jaedong manages to win both SLs he'll have demonstrated dominance about equal to savior, considering things like titles won, ELO dominance and sheer scariness in important matches. He's maybe not quite as dominant in ZvT, where you really never thought there was any chance savior was going to lose ever. Even if he does, can you honestly say with 100% certainty that he's the favourite in a series against Bisu? There's no doubt that Jaedong's very very good, but he still looks mortal. When Savior was bonjwa, there was no doubt that he would win, regardless of opponent or map. And yet, during his dominance, he only won one OSL. If there was no doubt that he would win, how did he keep losing OSLs? If he was so dominant, why didn't CJ win the Proleague title under his reign? If OZ wins the finals with a Jaedong-lead beatdown, and Jaedong takes the OSL and MSL, how can you really question it? The only way he could have been more dominant is if he also took GOM (which, I would point out, he did get to the Ro8 in). Hi. You must be new to Starcraft or else you would know and understand just how thoroughly Savior dominated the game. You must be new to Starcraft or else you would understand just how pathetically bad Zerg was doing against Terran before Savior showed up. July and Gorush were slumping. Nobody seemed able to step up and fill in. Even Chojja, the other "great Zerg" of Savior's era struggled to overcome the top Terrans. NaDa fell. Oov fell. Midas fell. Nal_ra fell. Kingdom fell. Everyone who was anybody fell. The only person who seemed able to fight Savior on even ground was Chojja in ZvZ and Chojja was supposedly number one in the world in that match-up (and Savior had the winning record against Chojja...). And while you may point to Proleague, there wasn't a winner's league back then and CJ was arguably a worse team overall than OZ is (with an "I can win or lose against literally anybody" BackHo and decent snipers in the forms of Hiya and Lomo -- OZ is a stronger team than people give it credit for, which is why they can win BO7's in the playoffs, and why they actually have a shot at taking down SKT-1 if everyone plays their best on day 1). And while you point to GOM, back then Savior dominated obliterated everyone at just about every single special event he was invited to. Didn't get to spank NaDa and Boxer hard enough in individual leagues? Tear them down in Superfight! Own WEF! And everything else! If you counted those special leagues, Savior's impact would become even more terrifying. In order for me to feel like Jaedong has surpassed Savior, he will need to win 2 of the 3 leagues he is in (OSL, MSL, PL). If he does that, then I may consent to acknowledging that he's perservered and made it. But even so, he's only now starting to attain that aura of untouchability that Savior had in his prime. By the way, for those people who commented about JD royal roading and all... should I remind you of how pathetic he looked against Protoss back during OSC? Losing to Rock?!?!?! JD's first OSL run was anything but convincing. It wasn't until around the time that he won MSL that he seemed to have stepped up his ZvP game. In fact I recall him being less than 50% wins vs Protoss at the time of his OSL win. So then you rag on Savior for offline prelims? >_> History could have been very different if Jaedong had to play against Bisu or even Free (who JD has a losing record against even today!). It's not that the OSL win was somehow meaningless, but that there was a completely diifferent feeling than when Savior marched through every fucking single one of the best vs Z players of his day. Jaedong has not yet surpassed Savior. In terms of relative dominance, he may never surpass Savior: the skill level of the average A-team progamer has risen drastically since Savior's era. Savior's achievements are countless and indisputable. Terrans really were walking all over Zerg, and Savior really was the only hope for Zerg. But you may be downplaying just how much Protoss was walking over Zerg before Jaedong's ascension at EVER. Yes, his vP was terrible before and up to game 1 against Stork. But as Hot_Bid pointed out in his FE, Jaedong learned ZvP right before our eyes in the finals of the most coveted prestigious league. Less than a month later, he proved the viability of 5hatch hydra against the world's best PvZer, Bisu, on Blue Storm and began the counter-revolution against forge FE that's reversed nearly all the advantages in strategy and morale that Bisu earned when he slaughtered Savior. At the same time, he was raping Terrans left and right with 2hatch muta and winning the great majority of his ZvZs. Only the sudden rise of Flash prevented him from winning both leagues that spring. It's possible that Jaedong's ZvP might still be abysmal if he had played Bisu in the EVER finals instead of Stork, but that's not what happened. Just as Flash would do in Bacchus, he used Stork to evolve his vP matchup to an S-class level and soon reversed the flow of the metagame (no more carriers vs. T, no more sair/dt vs. Z). Jaedong's strategic achievements (regression to 2hatch vs. T, expansion to 5hatch vs. P, complete paradigm shift vZ) are not as flashy as Savior's (3 hatch muta->lurker/defiler->ultra/ling vs. T, muta/lurk vs. P), but they have also had a great influence on the metagame. The reason 75% of OSL/MSL semifinalists are Zerg this season isn't just maps; it's also Jaedong, who proved that a focus on mechanics and execution could solve problems in the metagame that players with a broader strategic vision and weaker mechanics, like Savior, could not, or at least, make those problems easier to solve. Savior was great, Jaedong is great. We know precisely how great Savior was, but Jaedong's greatness is still a work in progress. You forgot the more important part of what he did to zvp with scourge. didn't July 1st use 3 hatch spire to scourge to counter sairs in the EVER2008 OSL vs Best? Yeah, but you can already see Jaedong doing it on January 8, 2008 in the Bisu game on Blue Storm.
you're right (just watched it lol). So stange how it didn't really even catch on until way after that.
I think July was the 1st to use +1 air carapace vs mass sair though and I got it confused. I'm probably just setting my self up again though lol.
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wowowow iris you blew me away
now go crush kwanro and lose to jd in the final lol.
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On August 05 2009 10:06 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2009 08:32 Dazed_Spy wrote:
And being a bonjwa isnt about the amount of leagues you win, its in what fashion you win them. Jaedong does not dominate when he wins, outside of zvz. No ones mouths are left open in shock when he beats off a push. His zvt and zvp are strong, aggressive, but not AMAZING like other Bonjwa's match up's were. Jaedong is a winner, not a destroyer. And he will never be a bonjwa until he destroys leagues.
I'm a bit confused by this. You're saying that if Jaedong wins the next 3 OSLs and collects the first ever Platinum Mouse, that wouldn't be sufficient if he didn't win those games enough. That he could retire with the best StarLeague record ever, yet still not be considered Bonjwa. If so, then the title is completely arbitrary and without meaning. If you can be the greatest StarCraft player ever without being Bonjwa, then being Bonjwa isn't something worth pursuing. Pretty much. Bonjwa has always meant something extremely arbitrary and intangiable; the very very very best over an extended period of time with the feeling utter invincibility and dominance, where a loss, no matter the opponent, the imbalance of the map, or the frequency of games, is so shocking its front page news.
Jaedong is at the moment, like Nada was ever since his fall. What I mean by that, is he is someone who can come up and win a league and has remained a top player, and for a few months here and there hes even the best player. But sometimes hes not. At the end of the day, hes always just a player, just a man, just a mortal. Savior was not a man. Nada was not a man. Boxer was not, OOV most certainly was not. You don't understand unless you lived through the reign of a bonjwa, so just shut the fuck up and listen: Jaedong is not a Bonjwa yet, and winning two starleagues [msl/osl] wouldn't make him one either. Just like Bisu's msl runs didn't make him a bonjwa. In fact, Jaedong can never BE a bonjwa, because sc1's competitive era is going to end in a few months, before the conclusion of the next osl for god sakes.
Edit: And thats what bisu was talking about in his interview at one point. He doesn't want to be a bonjwa because a bonjwa is such a high emotionally that once you DO lose, your never coming back [Unless your nada]. Thats why bisu said he wants to be a player who fucking rapes everyone and wins leagues consistently till the end of his career, but doesn't obliterate them. Bisu wants to be Bisu. Jaedong is a Bisu, their careers mimic each other. Take it from a savior fan, you dont even fucking want jaedong to be a bonjwa because of the necessary requirements; his complete and utter collapse.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On August 05 2009 10:18 Lamprey wrote:
This talk of bonjwa is so meaningless. "oh, Savior is bonjwa. He dominated for a while." Well, Savior is playing now and hasn't stopped playing since his domination and now he can't even crack the top 30 best players. If Savior played Jaedong in 100 games it would end up ~90-10 for Jaedong. How can anyone even think Savior was ever as good as Jaedong is now. All the previous bonjwa's were great at the time, but the game and the players has completely and utterly passed them by. The players today would curb stomp Boxer, Oov, Savior, Nal_Ra, Yellow, etc if we had a time machine. And the best case is Savior who plays today at the same level as when he dominated, but today he isn't even top 30 best player.
And don't give me some crap like that's comparing a retired athlete to a current player right now. Savior and Nada have never stopped playing, just their competition is far superior now and its clear that in this crop of players that is the best ever they do not cut it. So, who really cares if they dominated a previous period against worse players. Certainly, the game has evolved but shouldn't people like Nada and Savior who have been playing longer than any of these youngsters have an advantage from experience and yet they get destroyed by people who have been playing the game for half the time.
It's still fun for one of the old "greats" to make a run and you want to root for them, but deep down you know they're just not very good anymore.
i guess its meaningless and stupid to talk about pele and maradona or wilt chamberlain and larry bird because some dudes now in the NBA can jump higher right?
rofl
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I've been curious about this for a while: does Dazed_Spy ever make posts that contribute to a discussion and aren't just thinly-veiled excuses to vent his rage at the existence of people who aren't him?
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nah you right he trolls all threads
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On August 05 2009 11:21 EvoChamber wrote:
I've been curious about this for a while: does Dazed_Spy ever make posts that contribute to a discussion and aren't just thinly-veiled excuses to vent his rage at the existence of people who aren't him? Damn you are a perceptive one, arent you!? Impressive.
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On August 05 2009 10:18 Lamprey wrote:
This talk of bonjwa is so meaningless. "oh, Savior is bonjwa. He dominated for a while." Well, Savior is playing now and hasn't stopped playing since his domination and now he can't even crack the top 30 best players. If Savior played Jaedong in 100 games it would end up ~90-10 for Jaedong. How can anyone even think Savior was ever as good as Jaedong is now. All the previous bonjwa's were great at the time, but the game and the players has completely and utterly passed them by. The players today would curb stomp Boxer, Oov, Savior, Nal_Ra, Yellow, etc if we had a time machine. And the best case is Savior who plays today at the same level as when he dominated, but today he isn't even top 30 best player.
And don't give me some crap like that's comparing a retired athlete to a current player right now. Savior and Nada have never stopped playing, just their competition is far superior now and its clear that in this crop of players that is the best ever they do not cut it. So, who really cares if they dominated a previous period against worse players. Certainly, the game has evolved but shouldn't people like Nada and Savior who have been playing longer than any of these youngsters have an advantage from experience and yet they get destroyed by people who have been playing the game for half the time.
It's still fun for one of the old "greats" to make a run and you want to root for them, but deep down you know they're just not very good anymore.
No shit that the greats of today would be the greats of past generations. What you fail to understand is that the game has completely evolved with patches, new strategies, and new styles since then. Watch GARIMTO play vs. Boxer. Then watch Jaedong play vs. Bisu. It's a completely different game. The SC of today is a macrofest - it's more based around who has the bigger economy and bigger army. The SC of our younger days was much more strategically driven and focused on micro. Honestly, you just make yourself look stupid by comparing different eras. Furthermore, the Bonjwas are Bonjwas because they completely dominated there era. They deserve plenty of respect for that, because no other players, not Bisu, not Jaedong, not Flash, not Fantasy, none of them have shown the kind of dominance that Boxer, Oov, Nada, and Savior did.
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On August 05 2009 11:02 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2009 10:06 NicolBolas wrote:On August 05 2009 08:32 Dazed_Spy wrote:
And being a bonjwa isnt about the amount of leagues you win, its in what fashion you win them. Jaedong does not dominate when he wins, outside of zvz. No ones mouths are left open in shock when he beats off a push. His zvt and zvp are strong, aggressive, but not AMAZING like other Bonjwa's match up's were. Jaedong is a winner, not a destroyer. And he will never be a bonjwa until he destroys leagues.
I'm a bit confused by this. You're saying that if Jaedong wins the next 3 OSLs and collects the first ever Platinum Mouse, that wouldn't be sufficient if he didn't win those games enough. That he could retire with the best StarLeague record ever, yet still not be considered Bonjwa. If so, then the title is completely arbitrary and without meaning. If you can be the greatest StarCraft player ever without being Bonjwa, then being Bonjwa isn't something worth pursuing. Pretty much. Bonjwa has always meant something extremely arbitrary and intangiable; the very very very best over an extended period of time with the feeling utter invincibility and dominance, where a loss, no matter the opponent, the imbalance of the map, or the frequency of games, is so shocking its front page news. Jaedong is at the moment, like Nada was ever since his fall. What I mean by that, is he is someone who can come up and win a league and has remained a top player, and for a few months here and there hes even the best player. But sometimes hes not. At the end of the day, hes always just a player, just a man, just a mortal. Savior was not a man. Nada was not a man. Boxer was not, OOV most certainly was not. You don't understand unless you lived through the reign of a bonjwa, so just shut the fuck up and listen: Jaedong is not a Bonjwa yet, and winning two starleagues [msl/osl] wouldn't make him one either. Just like Bisu's msl runs didn't make him a bonjwa. In fact, Jaedong can never BE a bonjwa, because sc1's competitive era is going to end in a few months, before the conclusion of the next osl for god sakes. Edit: And thats what bisu was talking about in his interview at one point. He doesn't want to be a bonjwa because a bonjwa is such a high emotionally that once you DO lose, your never coming back [Unless your nada]. Thats why bisu said he wants to be a player who fucking rapes everyone and wins leagues consistently till the end of his career, but doesn't obliterate them. Bisu wants to be Bisu. Jaedong is a Bisu, their careers mimic each other. Take it from a savior fan, you dont even fucking want jaedong to be a bonjwa because of the necessary requirements; his complete and utter collapse.
This. Being a Bonjwa means being the complete and uncontested best. You win. That's it. Period. There is no losing as a Bonjwa. There's another, sadder facet to being a Bonjwa: the burnout. No one burns out like a Bonjwa does. They crash, they burn, and they can never really recover. Nada said it himself in an interview earlier this summer. He actually said that he can't even say he loves the game anymore. It's things like this that happen to the true greats.
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bisu vs iris game 5 is dissapointing. thought bisu would do a better job against those drops and vulture raids.
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On August 04 2009 17:07 alffla wrote:
ITS TIME FOR IRIS TO WIN A STARLEAGUUUUUEEEEEEEEE
I don't want to get my hopes up, but I'm praying to the StarCraft Gods.
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[QUOTE]On August 05 2009 10:06 NicolBolas wrote:
[QUOTE]Did he do so while playing anything even remotely like the kind of schedule Jaedong did? While playing the same quality opponents that Jaedong had to?
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ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? You're seriously going to doubt that Savior was playing the best opponents of his day?!?! What the fucking fucked up fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On August 05 2009 13:26 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2009 10:06 NicolBolas wrote:
Did he do so while playing anything even remotely like the kind of schedule Jaedong did? While playing the same quality opponents that Jaedong had to?
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? You're seriously going to doubt that Savior was playing the best opponents of his day?!?! What the fucking fucked up fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!
Savior fought through the best to prove he was the best, there's no doubt about it. Nicol, you're just damaging your credibility by trying (and failing) to downplay Savior's achievements.
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On August 05 2009 10:15 LuckyFool wrote:
IRIS IS MY FRIGGEN HERO YESSSS! GAME 5 ON BYZ HOLLLLLY SHIT.
wtf... as a t1 fan how could you say iris is your hero... just change your fav team to cj.
i'm so freaking sad bisu lost. he's out of like everything now. bisu always does great but then ppl snipe him off. i dont think he's won a single osl yet, correct??? He HAS to win the next one after JD gets FREAKING GOLDEN MOUSE YEA BABY!! lol. anyways, bisu's my 2nd fav player, so i hate iris right now.
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The blind fanboyism and arbitrary standards in this thread (in particular from dazed_spy) must be some sad attempt to justify himself as better than people newer to the scene (not that i'm one).
You don't set the standard for what a bonjwa is, nor do I; the community does. I have absolutely no doubt that if JD wins both starleagues, the COMMUNITY will embrace him as the absolute best player by modern standards (which are going to involve closer games and less dominance) and your pathetic attempts to cling to the past will be laughed at and ignored.
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I wish people would stop saying Bisu vs. Iris Game 5 was the "best game" in a long time, or "ever", or whatever else. That had to be the most depressing, arrogant, and idiotic mistake of a game I have ever seen. Bisu absolutely threw away the game after his first brilliant hallucination attack. He just let Iris steamroll his economy at 7 and 8 for no reason other than he figured he already had the game in hand and didn't want to waste time defending and expanding.
I understand 5 games will take a toll on one's discipline and self-control, but holy cow that kind of arrogance is just disgusting.
I'm sure Bisu had been practicing hours and hours every day since his last match. It's really sad that he just threw it away with such stupid decision making.
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On August 05 2009 14:48 latent wrote:
I wish people would stop saying Bisu vs. Iris Game 5 was the "best game" in a long time, or "ever", or whatever else. That had to be the most depressing, arrogant, and idiotic mistake of a game I have ever seen. Bisu absolutely threw away the game after his first brilliant hallucination attack. He just let Iris steamroll his economy at 7 and 8 for no reason other than he figured he already had the game in hand and didn't want to waste time defending and expanding.
I understand 5 games will take a toll on one's discipline and self-control, but holy cow that kind of arrogance is just disgusting.
I'm sure Bisu had been practicing hours and hours every day since his last match. It's really sad that he just threw it away with such stupid decision making.
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EPT
